Issues with Applied Ballistics Solver in Kestrel Elite

[German_Hunter]

Hello there,

First of all: Sorry for mistypes and spelling errors, english is not my native language. I´m from germany.

I have 2 Issues with my Kestrel 5700 Elite:

1. No Turret Calibration available
2. Hornady ELD-X Bullet 178grs in .308 not available in Database even though it should be according to AB´s Bullet List on their Page.

Ad 1
I wrote NK and AB 1 Year ago. NK told me it was up to AB, since they cannot do anything in AB´s solver. AB never responded to me.
Well, NK suggested to use the MV Calibration feature, but that´s no good solution, since it would also affect the Windage Correction Values. They wanted to bring it up in the next meetings, but on request after a while they said: there will nothing be done about it. At the Moment it is not possible to get a firing solution, when you have Scope Turrets, that eg. should be 0,25 MOA but have like 0,268 MOA in Reality (like 2 of my Bushnells).

Ad 2
I got response from AB: Use Data of ELD Match.

Seriously ? This must be a bad joke ? I bought and have read Bryans Books and thought it´s all about science - The more accurate your inputs are, the more accurate your firing solution will be ? I bought an almost 1000€ Device, that cannot deal the absolute Basics like take actual scope click Value into equation ? Then they suggest to use Data for a different Bullet ? What´s the Point of using Custom Drag Curves, if I should use one from a different Bullet ?
It would have been no problem, If they had said: "Sorry, we don´t have it yet, we´ll take care of it, we´ll come back to you in X Days/Months/Years...." But I feel fooled if they do not react at all or give me such an answer that goes 100% contrary to what it´s all about..... and the problem is still to be solved....

What do you think. Am I overreacting, or are those valid points ?

Manuel

 

[footsteps]

Maybe Hide member DocUSMCRetired would have some technical input reguarding you're situation.

 

[Blowby]

With profile loader you can add the factor. Save and transfer to your Kestrel. I never checked the results since my scope tracking is spot on.

'SSF' = Sight Scale Factor.

 

[_Windrider_]

Maybe Hide member DocUSMCRetired would have some technical input reguarding you're situation.

if you use @ before any hide member name it tags them and gives them an alert when they sign in...... @DocUSMCRetired

 

[footsteps]

Thanks for the info .

 

[German_Hunter]

Thanks for the Infos. First of all, I think it was the same "Doc" who wrote me to use the ELD Match Data.... So my expectation is lowered, that there will be a happy end.

Regarding Profile Loader: Thanks for the Tip, but I do not have a cable. I have the Elite with Bluetooth and use it combined with Android Phone. I paid 100 Bucks extra for bluetooth, so I did not need to buy a cable. However the "Kestrel Link Ballistics" App does not have the SSF functionallity and AFAIK the AB Profile Loader needs cable and manual says it does not work withe the Elite over bluetooth. Only via Cable.... So I need to buy a cable for my bluetooh Kestrel ?

 

[_Windrider_]

Thanks for the Infos. First of all, I think it was the same "Doc" who wrote me to use the ELD Match Data.... So my expectation is lowered, that there will be a happy end.

Regarding Profile Loader: Thanks for the Tip, but I do not have a cable. I have the Elite with Bluetooth and use it combined with Android Phone. I paid 100 Bucks extra for bluetooth, so I did not need to buy a cable. However the "Kestrel Link Ballistics" App does not have the SSF functionallity and AFAIK the AB Profile Loader needs cable and manual says it does not work withe the Elite over bluetooth. Only via Cable.... So I need to buy a cable for my bluetooh Kestrel ?

if i can upload my firmaware via BT i dont see why the BT dongle wouldnt work with the profile loader. we blame AB for much of this but fact is its often hardware limitations and that is NK not AB. i would try the dongle just to see.

 

[German_Hunter]

Sorry, I do not have the Bluetooth Dongle. I have internal Bluetooth in my Laptop. I can see an connect my Kestrel, so no Hardware restrictions.
But the manual of AB Profile Loader clearly says: "This Program does not work with Bluetooth" for the 5700.

 

[_Windrider_]

Sorry, I do not have the Bluetooth Dongle. I have internal Bluetooth in my Laptop. I can see an connect my Kestrel, so no Hardware restrictions.
But the manual of AB Profile Loader clearly says: "This Program does not work with Bluetooth" for the 5700.

what they mean is the bluetooth hardware in your laptop. you have to have their dongle. its special.

https://kestrelinstruments.com/kestrel-link-wireless-dongle-for-pc-or-mac-kestrel-5-series

 

[German_Hunter]

I ordered the cable. Not, that I don´t believe you, but the manual is very clear, so I ordered the item, that is guaranteed to work.

 

[MilDot1960]

So why not try it without the cable first, The reason they told you to use another bullet profile is because so many of them match each others data that the results would be the same.

2) Also how do you know that your clicks are 0.268, being able to measure 0.018"inch or 0.04572cm multiplied by 4 = 0.072" or 7/100ths of an inch OR 0.18288mm/cm, Which at 1000yds you are talking about 0.72" or 1.8288cm difference at 1000yds.

I don't know how you managed to measure such a tiny difference but being out 3/4" of an inch or 1.8cm is nothing, the bullet can move that much just from the heat of the barrel at that range.

 

[German_Hunter]

So why not try it without the cable first,

Because stuff costs money. Why not buy the thing, that is guaranteed to work ?

The reason they told you to use another bullet profile is because so many of them match each others data that the results would be the same.

In this case it´s simply not true:
https://www.hornady.com/support/ballistic-coefficient
Look at this Page, and you will see that they are pretty close @ Mach 2,25, but the Difference gets bigger below Mach 1,75.

2) Also how do you know that your clicks are 0.268, being able to measure 0.018"inch or 0.04572cm multiplied by 4 = 0.072" or 7/100ths of an inch OR 0.18288mm/cm, Which at 1000yds you are talking about 0.72" or 1.8288cm difference at 1000yds.

Very Simple: I shot a group at 100m, did 1 Full Rotation on my turret up (equal 12 MOA = 48 Klicks) and shot a group again.
12 MOA @ 100m equal 349mm (abt 13,74 Inches). So between the groups should be a distance on my target of 349mm. In reality there was a distance between the 2 Groups of 375mm which is abt. 7,5% more travel per click, and easily measurable with a ruler. When shooting at let´s say 800m with my gun and my Ammo, I´d need to come up 50,3 MOA which equals 46,75 (false) MOA on my Turret. That´s abt 4 MOA Over the Target, when I Dial what is beeing spit out the Kestrel. This equals around 1m at that distance or 37 Inches.... That´s a BIG miss..... Add the wrong BC on top of that and the fun ends on that day....

EDIT:
The "Master" himself made a very good Video explaining that in detail. So I don´t understand why they wouldn´t take care of that in the Kestrel App:

 

[MilDot1960]

Well if you shot 2 different 12 moa groups 1 at 349 and the other at 375 then it is not the clicks that are out I think you have a more serious problem going on inside the scope because the drop is changing each time you dial the scope Yes ?

It sounds like some thing is loose inside the scope ?

 

[German_Hunter]

Nope. I´ve shot one group, dialed 12 MOA UP, and shot another group. Both groups were shot at the same distance (100m). Both groups had their average size of 1/2 MOA. The Distance between those 2 groups (on Paper) should have been 349mm (13,7 Inches), but it was 375mm (14,8 Inches). This means (when calculated back), that 1 Click on my Scope is not 0,25 MOA, but 0,269MOA. Please watch the Video, I´ve linked above to see visually what I´m trying to explain.
P.S: When dialing back the 12 MOA to my Original Zero, my shots land exactly in my first group.

 

[Lowlight]

.26 is True MOA

.25 is Shooter MOA or IPHY

there is a difference as you noted, a NF adjusts in .26 vs a Leupold that adjusts in .25

That is why MOA scopes suck but they are not the same

 

[MilDot1960]

Oh sorry I thought you meant that when you first dialled it It moved 349 and the second time it moved 375, I understand now.

Yes then I would say the clicks are not true .250"

 

[MilDot1960]

.26 is True MOA

.25 is Shooter MOA or IPHY

there is a difference as you noted, a NF adjusts in .26 vs a Leupold that adjusts in .25

That is why MOA scopes suck but they are not the same

WTG Frank,

I did not know NF moved the Goal posts,

Also it did not help when I tried to work out moa clicks to 100m instead of yards seeing as on a normal scope moa clicks are .250 @ 100 yds not 109.36yds, It's a bit like a mildot scope with moa turrets, shit of a thing, lol.

thanks again Frank.

John.

 

[German_Hunter]

MOA scopes suck

Couldn´t agree more.... Even worse are the Scopes with MOA Turrets and MilDot in 2nd Focal Plane. How much more confusing can you go ?
For serious long range work, I have my Scopes with Mil based reticle in FFP and Mil Turrets.

But I have those 2nd Focal Plane Mildot Scopes with False MOA Turrets already. They are on my Hunting Rifles and I´d like to take them to long range shooting events for training effect and confidence boosting. So regardless of Units: They need to work.
Shouldn´t be a problem these days one could think. Strelok Pro does already a great job. But I have the Kestrels All in One Solution, so I need to figure a way out to use it in any case.....

 

[Steel+Killer]

You need to take those mil scopes with MOA turrets and use them to drive railroad spikes, that’s about what they are good for!

 

[V-Ref]

Can you confirm please...ABs response when you asked about the .308 178 ELD-X missing from the library....they advised you to use the .308 180-M data....is that correct?

 

[German_Hunter]

He suggested to use ELD Match 178 Data for the ELD-X 178

 

[German_Hunter]

UPDATE:
Cable arrived today, nothing has changed.
- ELD-X 178 not available in AB Profile Loader
- SSF has no effect !

After working around their bad programming habits (needed to set . instead of , as decimal indicator in the Windows Settings in Order to get the Tool to tranfer from Kestrel), I created 2 identical profiles. Only Difference is the Name and the Elevation SSF. Both created the same Firing Solution. So no effect.

Still no reply on my request at AB, and still no reaction at this forum from AB. I´m making the same experience as before:
Applied Ballsitics does not care about customers. Thanks AB, for your Help ! 80 good Bucks thrown after Several 100 bad Bucks Before..... WHat a waste of money and time....

 

[MilDot1960]

To be honest as a company they are extremely busy and yours is just one of the new bullets that have hit the market that is due to be added to the list of updates, There is a lot of testing involved in order to get the correct Data as accurate as possible and ever Bullet has to go through the same vigorous testing and AB is the science of One Man with the addition of a few others who work along side him,

You have two choices, One you can wait until they fix the problem or Two find another Bullet that performs as good or close to it and use that until AB manage to add your Bullet to the list or get back to you,

Bryan at AB Does Care very much about his customers and works very hard, And I think you are wrong to start throwing smartass remarks around at him, You are one of thousands of people that contact him weekly not to mention every Major Bullet manufacturer known to Man, So lighten up.

You Picked the Oddball Bullet to use and blame him as if every thing is his fault, Give the Guy a Break.

 

[German_Hunter]

I would agree, but:
In the Official Bullet List on their Page, they list the ELD-X 178 as available:
http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/Downloads/ABLibrary.pdf

And the SSF is a general issue, I brought up 1 year ago....

I would have no problem with them, if they had told me sorry, ELD-X is an error. We will have the curve in future and if they had reacted at all on my SSF request.
But they gave me answer that is unworthy at best (ELD Match Curve for ELD-X Bullet) and did not react at all on my SSF request. I tried different channels and never got response. Busy or not, that´s not very polite and I feel mucked around....

And just for the records: I´m busy, too. That´s why I buy "professional" tools. In most cases this safes time and trouble. Not in this case....

On the other side: The guys from NK reacted exemplary on my requests !

 

[MilDot1960]

I agree, but:
In the Official Bullet List on their Page, they list the ELD-X 178 as available:
http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/Downloads/ABLibrary.pdf

And the SSF is a general issue, I brought up 1 year ago....

I would have no problem with them, if they had told me sorry, ELD-X is an error. We will have the curve in future and if they had reacted at all on my SSF request.
But they gave me answer that is unworthy at best (ELD Match Curve for ELD-X Bullet) and did not react at all on my SSF request. I tried different channels and never got response. Busy or not, that not very polite and I feel they made a muck of it.

Back 3 or 4 years ago before everyone started using AB Bryan always had time to reply to us then the APP took off and then Major companies got involved and Bryan has hardly been seen since, What started as his pet project has taken over his life,

Anyway back to your Bullet ?, Have you done your own drop measurement tests at 25 or 50y/m Steps/distances ? Out to say 6 or 700m

Also have you adjusted the BC's to match those tests, Remembering that this needs to be done in matching weather conditions,

Have you RE Chronyed you Shots ? If so how close to each other was the FPS/Mps.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

UPDATE:
Cable arrived today, nothing has changed.
- ELD-X 178 not available in AB Profile Loader
- SSF has no effect !

After working around their bad programming habits (needed to set . instead of , as decimal indicator in the Windows Settings in Order to get the Tool to tranfer from Kestrel), I created 2 identical profiles. Only Difference is the Name and the Elevation SSF. Both created the same Firing Solution. So no effect.

Still no reply on my request at AB, and still no reaction at this forum from AB. I´m making the same experience as before:
Applied Ballsitics does not care about customers. Thanks AB, for your Help ! 80 good Bucks thrown after Several 100 bad Bucks Before..... WHat a waste of money and time....

4 hours ago I let you know via your message on Facebook that I would reply to your email. That was about 3 hours before you posted this.

The Kestrel does not have SSF. The AB Elite engine supports it, but that is not a feature in that product. If you would like to see it as a feature, then please let them know. We can only add in features that the parent company wishes to have in their products.

I just returned last night (very late) from Europe (IWA). In order to make sure that users information was not compromised I did everything only from secure network connections. While this limited my ability to respond to everyone all the time, it was the safest way to handle them. This did cause a delay sometimes. Not meant as an excuse, but meant as an answer to why responses have been delayed.

We are working hard to update the library, and we plan to have another drop of new bullets. We are also going to take a look at both the 178s to see just how close they are in performance. However the reason I suggested using it, and the reason you see it in the list is because of a incorrectly labeled file name. The bullet is the ELD-X and you should very soon see an update on your app. It was the correct bullet, which is why I went ahead and informed you to use it.

 

[German_Hunter]

Thanks Doc for the Detailed information. I was on the IWA, too, and was talking to Chuck Arkell from NK about this exact issue. He -and the guys from NK before- told me the exact opposite: They could not implement it, because it´s part of your solver.... Anyway: I will get in contact to NK again. Thanks for your answer.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

Thanks Doc for the Detailed information. I was on the IWA, too, and was talking to Chuck Arkell from NK about this exact issue. He -and the guys from NK before- told me the exact opposite: They could not implement it, because it´s part of your solver.... Anyway: I will get in contact to NK again. Thanks for your answer.

The reason you see SSF in AB Analytics, AB Profile Loader, AB Mobile, Garmin 701 and more is because it is a part of the engine. The engine is already capable of handling it. It just needs to be integrated in to the specific product. Meaning an interface in the app, and device for the input. But it is already there in the core, sitting dormant.

 

[German_Hunter]

Anyway back to your Bullet ?, Have you done your own drop measurement tests at 25 or 50y/m Steps/distances ? Out to say 6 or 700m

Also have you adjusted the BC's to match those tests, Remembering that this needs to be done in matching weather conditions,

Have you RE Chronyed you Shots ? If so how close to each other was the FPS/Mps.

How do your questions in any way help the progress of this conversation ? The whole point about a weather meter with integrated solver, that uses custom drag curves is: You don´t have to go through all that emperic stuff. Enter Rifle Data, Enter measured MV, Choose your Bullet. Do a few shots, and do MV Calibration, and you should be good to go up to the MV Calibration Range.

With other (Mil/Mil/FFP) Scopes the Kestrel has already earned it´s reputation for me up tp 1434m....

At this point it does not make any sense, to do any "calibration" of the curve (BC or MV), until the Turret Issues are solved. Garbage In -> Garbage Out. I know that my turrets are way off, and this would "bend" my whole data, if not beeing accounted for.

Still waiting for reply of AB (as promised) and Re-Reply from NK on a quick solution suggestion i made to solve that issue....

 

[MilDot1960]

How do your questions in any way help the progress of this conversation ? The whole point about a weather meter with integrated solver, that uses custom drag curves is: You don´t have to go through all that emperic stuff. Enter Rifle Data, Enter measured MV, Choose your Bullet. Do a few shots, and do MV Calibration, and you should be good to go up to the MV Calibration Range.

With other (Mil/Mil/FFP) Scopes the Kestrel has already earned it´s reputation for me up tp 1434m....

At this point it does not make any sense, to do any "calibration" of the curve (BC or MV), until the Turret Issues are solved. Garbage In -> Garbage Out. I know that my turrets are way off, and this would "bend" my whole data, if not beeing accounted for.

Still waiting for reply of AB (as promised) and Re-Reply from NK on a quick solution suggestion i made to solve that issue....

Look DocUSMC has already explained what the problem is. So take it from him because he knows best, And if selecting that bullet does not work then you have to put the Info in manually as another option , it's either that or Don't use those Bullets and Scope,

This is all about "You Want" Doc said it's not done yet, So You Can't Have it, You Bought the Scope and You bought the Bullets, It's not my fault.

The only person who can fix it is you, either change or live with it, but at the end of the day It's your fault because you insist in using something that you know to be wrong. But don't take it out on everyone else because you dropped the Ball.

 

[German_Hunter]

either change or live with it..... If everyone would think like this, there would be no improvement and no progress.
The issue with inaccurate Scope Tracking is true for many scopes out there, but many people don´t know how to measure such small errors. We already went over that....
All I´m saying is: It´s not a bonus feature, I´m demanding.
I´s a reality in the world of man made scopes, that creates inaccurate firing solutions, and should be solved in a state of the art Device.

 

[MilDot1960]

either change or live with it..... If everyone would think like this, there would be no improvement and no progress.
The issue with inaccurate Scope Tracking is true for many scopes out there, but many people don´t know how to measure such small errors. We already went over that....
All I´m saying is: It´s not a bonus feature, I´m demanding.
I´s a reality in the world of man made scopes, that creates inaccurate firing solutions, and should be solved in a state of the art Device.

If the out put of the Kestrel can not match the Scope then change the scope " IF" the Turrets are wrong, Or send the Scope back and have the factory check it out, If the Turrets are out then regardless of what AB or Kestrel do the problem will remain, You are the first person that I have seen here who has run in to this problem, So the Scope needs to Go if that is the problem.

 

[German_Hunter]

I disagree on your opinion, that it´s only my faulty scope.
In every manufacturing proccess, there are tolerances involved. That´s minimizable, but not avoidable.
Those small Tolerances and small errors add up to big POI Shifts down the range, and need to be compensated, if you want accurate firing solution.
If it´s no issue, why do you think AB adressed it with their SSF ? Or Strelok Pro with the Custom Turret Value ? Or why Bryan made the Video I linked above ? Just because you do not see it with your scopes doesn´t mean it´s not there.
Yes there are scopes out there, where this is no issue and negligible. But you´d be surprised how many scopes do not have the advertised click values in reality.

 

[MilDot1960]

Ok so you know that your click value is .268 and not .250, Then what do you want to happen, ?.

I know dozens of scopes click values are not within the quoted Specs, My way around this is only to buy certain trusted brands and if there is a problem then I would return it to where I bought it.

So far you are unhappy that AB suggested that you use another bullet profile because you insist in using the one with the same Name and you know that your Turrets are not correct, And when I suggested that you manually input the correct Data in to the Kestrel you take offense at that because you want to use the Automatic library within the Kestrel.

No matter what anyone suggests is just not good enough for you and you want it "ALL" your own way, Well heres the Kicker, AB and Kestrel and this Forum do not exist only for your benefit. You insist on using a crap scope and expect everyone else to jump around at your mercy, well it don't work like. Here you either work to fit In or you bugga off, The choice is yours,

I am done trying to help you because you won't be happy until someone else pays for a new scope for you and hires/pays AB to tend to your issues personally.

Never Going To Happen.

Don't bother to reply because I am done with you.

 

[German_Hunter]

Issue with Bullet Profile was solved, when Doc posted here why he suggested to use different curve. It was an Error in the Name and actually the right curve. Meanwhile they changed the Name in the Database. Issue with Custom Drag Curve for ELD-X ended for me at that point.
Before the clarification from Doc, this was a valid point.
By the way: There is no way to manually input Drag Data into the Kestrel. How is this suggestion supposed to "help" ? I could use G7 BC, which I did before.

Your next Paragraph is a strong exaggeration and attack into my direction. Since I´m not intersted in a fight, but only on a technical discussion I will ignore that.

I have -like you- scopes, that do not have this tracking issue, as I said earlier. Everything else has been written before. No need to repeat myself. Thanks for you attempt to "help" anyway

 

[_Windrider_]

Have you tried verifying your turrets without shooting? Make a tall target at 100m and just move the turrets and see if the reticle tracks appropriately? using groups isnt the best way to do this as you are assuming that your group is exactly POA=POI. not many of us can do that every time or we would all be shooting 1 hole groups. ive just found it easier to verify turret click values by just watching the reticle move. Incidentally, what scope is it, you never said.

 

[German_Hunter]

I confirmed the Tracking Error it with a Leupold Zero Point, yes. The 2 affected Scopes are 2 identical Bushnell Elite 6500 2,5-16x50 with Mildot.
My Hunting Buddy has 2 of the same scopes. They have the same issue. I had a similar scope with "1cm Klicks" and Ret 4a, that was spot on. So seems only to affect their 1/4 MOA Turrets from that series....

 

[_Windrider_]

When i read the specs on this scope, its .25" per click not .25 MOA...it appears, as @Lowlight led to earlier that these turrets are IPHY turrets not MOA turrets. so at 48 Clicks, you have moved the reticle 12". Ill let you do the metric conversions since you probably understand that better than i do but maybe you arent off or maybe I am?

 

[German_Hunter]

I will take a look at the turrets again (pretty sure they´re labeled 1/4 MOA) when I´m home to confirm. I thought about this SMOA Thing, too.
Was even hoping for it, when I did my tests, but it did not confirm:
12 SMOA (or IPHY) equal 3,3MIL euqal 11,5MOA and euqal 10 3/4 UNITS on my Turret.....
Other way:
12 MOA equal 12,6 SMOA equal 3,5 MIL euqal 11 1/4 UNITS on my Turrets
MOA is closer to my false Units....

EDIT: Just checked the Scope, you were right: 0,25"@100yd per Click. So I did the math again, but the result is the same 0,268 MOA/Click or 0,28 SMOA/Klick, wich makes the Deviation from Nominal even worse.

EDIT2: Re-Checked it with Leupold Zero Point:
Zero Point´s Reticle is also in Inches / 100Yards (Pic1)

Photographed my Rifles Zero (Which happens to be a bit OVER the 8 Inch Line)

Dialed 8 Inches UP and took a Photo (a bit BELOW the 16 Inch Line)

If everything would be OK, 8 UP should be a bit OVER 16 Inch Line.
See for yourself.....

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

It is important to do the test while shooting, because some scopes have reticles that wiggle around ever so slightly. You would have to call the company to find out what their acceptable tolerance is, but some scopes are more prone to it than others. Simply moving them up and down is not enough.

 

[jbailey]

German Hunter,
wow, this is a complex thread. I can't follow most of it and I am thankful I have not had the issues you are encountering with your scope or your new Kestrel AB. I will say that the Kestrel AB has been an absolute game changer for me (a smart phone hater)... I find it a tough, in-the-field ballistic computer that is right on with my ELR shooting even with bullets not currently in the AB library.

I wish you the best of luck solving your issues. I think as a start you should treat yourself to a nice, new Schmidt und Bender oder Hensoldt - you, more than most of the rest of us, deserve the "German" precision one of these scopes offers...

Viel Glueck!

 

[_Windrider_]

I will take a look at the turrets again (pretty sure they´re labeled 1/4 MOA) when I´m home to confirm. I thought about this SMOA Thing, too.
Was even hoping for it, when I did my tests, but it did not confirm:
12 SMOA (or IPHY) equal 3,3MIL euqal 11,5MOA and euqal 10 3/4 UNITS on my Turret.....
Other way:
12 MOA equal 12,6 SMOA equal 3,5 MIL euqal 11 1/4 UNITS on my Turrets
MOA is closer to my false Units....

EDIT: Just checked the Scope, you were right: 0,25"@100yd per Click. So I did the math again, but the result is the same 0,268 MOA/Click or 0,28 SMOA/Klick, wich makes the Deviation from Nominal even worse.

EDIT2: Re-Checked it with Leupold Zero Point:
Zero Point´s Reticle is also in Inches / 100Yards (Pic1)
View attachment 6885897
Photographed my Rifles Zero (Which happens to be a bit OVER the 8 Inch Line)
View attachment 6885898
Dialed 8 Inches UP and took a Photo (a bit BELOW the 16 Inch Line)
View attachment 6885899
If everything would be OK, 8 UP should be a bit OVER 16 Inch Line.
See for yourself.....

Parallax error?

 

[German_Hunter]

It is important to do the test while shooting....

Which I did. Collimator stuff was just as validation, that I´m not on the wrong track.

German Hunter,
wow, this is a complex thread. I can't follow most of it and I am thankful I have not had the issues you are encountering with your scope or your new Kestrel AB. I will say that the Kestrel AB has been an absolute game changer for me (a smart phone hater)... I find it a tough, in-the-field ballistic computer that is right on with my ELR shooting even with bullets not currently in the AB library.

I wish you the best of luck solving your issues. I think as a start you should treat yourself to a nice, new Schmidt und Bender oder Hensoldt - you, more than most of the rest of us, deserve the "German" precision one of these scopes offers...

Viel Glueck!

I see the Kestrel very similar - as a game changer. Unfortunately, when you start to look into the details, and compare it to the theoretical stuff from the Litz Books, they are a few steps behind that. But at least they listen and keep working on it. Unfortunately I got feedback, that SSF will not be implemented before next year......
As for German Scopes: Yes, they are good, but even here very expensive. I´m the guy who trys to get the most "bang for the buck". For my more serious Long Range Work, I´m using 2 Bushnells: 3,5-21x50 with G2DMR Reticle in FFP with Mil Turrets. Very good Scopes at 1/4 of the Street Price of a Schmid and Bender PMII..... These Scopes and the Kestrel got me out to 1434m (= 1568 yards) with a 30-06 Handload (ELD-Match in 208grs).

The SSF Request was for my Hunting Rifles (where the ELite 6500 scopes with bad clicks are mounted). If I had SSF in the Kestrel, I could use them without constraint in a Long Range Situation.

Parallax error?

Physically impossible. The Zero Point is a Collimator.

 

[davere]

So, it's not a great solution... but, as an interim until NK implelents SSF is that you could figure out your own SSF, and just multiply the solution by the correction factor? In practice, you'd likely be close enough until you got out past, say, 600 or so (that's a wild ass guess - I didn't do any fiddling in the ballistic to computer to back it up... but hopefully you get the point)? Then you'd need a calculator (which blows, but you hopefully have handy on a phone?)... but the math should be quick to execute. You'd want to test it over 3 or 4' on a real ruler exactly at 100y or 100m or whatever, so you have further travel to look at than just 8 inches?

 

[German_Hunter]

Hi,

math has already been done and the SSF is ready to be applied.
It could be multiplied with the Kestrel Elite´s firing solution manually, but when I need an additional cell phone I might as well use a different ballistic calculator.
Strelok Pro had a simple custom Click Value from the beginning. You could simply define, that 1 Click is 0,124 MOA or Whatever.
It would show firing Solution in MIL (MRAD) MOA (or SMOA) and Clicks. Unfortunatelly Turret Labelling became useless this way, because you needed to count clicks. Becomes a PITA when needing to do several full rotations of the turret.....

So I asked Igor Borisov to use the Custom Clicks and label them with *, since those are not the real units anymore.
He did it 1 week after my request in the "Reticle View". That was a great help. Now, some months ago, he added a button, that says "Show clicks in 1 3/4 Layout", which now gives me the firing solution directly on the right page, still in MIL, MOA AND in my Custom Click Values (labelled Turret). Very Comfortable and all errors are beeing adressed. That´s the way to do it

 

[LastShot300]

my Custom Click Values (labelled Turret). Very Comfortable and all errors are beeing adressed. That´s the way to do it

Good, after so many years Igor finally learned from CB! and never minded to use exactly the same name
TURRET units are and were in CB for years, precisely to cope with the so called "ssf"

 

[MilDot1960]

Hi,

math has already been done and the SSF is ready to be applied.
It could be multiplied with the Kestrel Elite´s firing solution manually, but when I need an additional cell phone I might as well use a different ballistic calculator.
Strelok Pro had a simple custom Click Value from the beginning. You could simply define, that 1 Click is 0,124 MOA or Whatever.
It would show firing Solution in MIL (MRAD) MOA (or SMOA) and Clicks. Unfortunatelly Turret Labelling became useless this way, because you needed to count clicks. Becomes a PITA when needing to do several full rotations of the turret.....

So I asked Igor Borisov to use the Custom Clicks and label them with *, since those are not the real units anymore.
He did it 1 week after my request in the "Reticle View". That was a great help. Now, some months ago, he added a button, that says "Show clicks in 1 3/4 Layout", which now gives me the firing solution directly on the right page, still in MIL, MOA AND in my Custom Click Values (labelled Turret). Very Comfortable and all errors are beeing adressed. That´s the way to do it
View attachment 6890101View attachment 6890102

In Strelok Pro you can choose MOA and MRAD, and SMOA per 100yds and CM's per 100 meters, but I am not sure about AB. ?

 

[German_Hunter]

TURRET units are and were in CB for years, precisely to cope with the so called "ssf"

Sorry, but what is CB ? Strelok is very Common, here in the european Long Range Community, costs only a few bucks, and is up to date.

@Mildot: Of course you can switch to different Output Units in the AB Solver. I think the AB App even allows for SSF, but the all in one Solution "Kestrel Elite" lacks that feature. My last Post was about Strelok Pro and the "Turret" Feature, that allows for Custom Clicks euqal to SSF from AB. Strelok Pro is my sort of "workaround", until the guys from NK have caught up the SSF Issue.

 

[MilDot1960]

Sorry, but what is CB ? Strelok is very Common, here in the european Long Range Community, costs only a few bucks, and is up to date.

@Mildot: Of course you can switch to different Output Units in the AB Solver. I think the AB App even allows for SSF, but the all in one Solution "Kestrel Elite" lacks that feature. My last Post was about Strelok Pro and the "Turret" Feature, that allows for Custom Clicks euqal to SSF from AB. Strelok Pro is my sort of "workaround", until the guys from NK have caught up the SSF Issue.

Cool, So the Elite is not as flexible as the AB App, that is most likely because the Elite is aimed at Military use I guess, That's a shame, I can't check it out because I loaned my Elite to someone and have not got it back yet.

Good Luck.

 

[_Windrider_]

Sorry, but what is CB ? Strelok is very Common, here in the european Long Range Community, costs only a few bucks, and is up to date.

@Mildot: Of course you can switch to different Output Units in the AB Solver. I think the AB App even allows for SSF, but the all in one Solution "Kestrel Elite" lacks that feature. My last Post was about Strelok Pro and the "Turret" Feature, that allows for Custom Clicks euqal to SSF from AB. Strelok Pro is my sort of "workaround", until the guys from NK have caught up the SSF Issue.

Coldbore

http://www.patagoniaballistics.com/feat_int.html