It’s been beat to death... but KAC SR25 versus...

[Fenix Mike]

The few threads I found were mostly 3 pages of bickering, a few opinions that Knights rifles are handed down by God himself, and none is better. I’ve owned a lot of rifles, Currently have a sr15 lpr and sr16 sbr, but I recently sold my mr762 (may have made a big mistake, but oh well) and want a replacement. I have a Scar 20 already that is a laser, and a scar 17 13 inch sbr, so I want a 16-20 inch ar 308 platform as well. I’ve had LMT, and other than being a pig, the MWS was stupid accurate, even with the 20 inch chrome lined barrel. I’ve also had the Daniel defense stuff, which is great for the money, had Lwrc reprs which weren’t bad after some tweaking... larue stuff ran well as long as you didn’t load hot, then they completely poop themselves, although still delivering 1/2-3/4 moa while doing so.

I feel like it’s time to get a SR25, specifically the APC or the APR. it’s a large investment for a rifle that doesn’t say “accuracy international” or “Barrett” on the side, but they do hold their value, and the fan boy status is top notch. I just wanted some opinions from those who HAVE ACTUALLY OWNED a SR25, and can compare it either positively or negatively to other similar top tier rifles. The LMT sniper system is $1500 cheaper and equally sexy, Larue is $2,000 cheaper, and many more are half the price or less.

Thoughts?

Oh, and I do shoot 1,000+, it will only eat match ammo, it will only run suppressed, and I have a nightforce atacr 4-16 waiting for it.

 

[theLBC]

KAC SR25 ECR/M110 or FNH Scar 20s?

Alright guys, Interesting topic (i think). For DMR work (7.62 inside 850M), which of the two is the best? I am considering purchasing one of the two platforms, however am not tied to either brand. The KAC would be around $6000 all kitted out to resemble an M110 while the Scar 20s would be...

www.snipershide.com

oops, you already got one. 6.5CM versions will be in stores by summer, not sure about barrels but i asked.

 

[nn8734]

I will never own a large frame AR platform that is not an SR25. I’ve had mine for a couple years and love it. It replaced an LMT MWS, which was a fine rifle but I couldn’t get it to behave with a can on.

If you plan to support/maintain the rifle yourself you will need some specialized tooling but that’s the only consideration I can think of beyond the obvious (cost vs benefit from your perspective).

 

[Fenix Mike]

KAC SR25 ECR/M110 or FNH Scar 20s?

Alright guys, Interesting topic (i think). For DMR work (7.62 inside 850M), which of the two is the best? I am considering purchasing one of the two platforms, however am not tied to either brand. The KAC would be around $6000 all kitted out to resemble an M110 while the Scar 20s would be...

www.snipershide.com

oops, you already got one. 6.5CM versions will be in stores by summer, not sure about barrels but i asked.

Im a 308 guy... I LOVE my Scar 20. Probably the best semi auto rifle ive owned thus far... but I also want an AR platform to go with it Just having a hard time handing my credit card info over for an AR10 that costs close to a Barrett, AXMC, MRAD, and other higher end rifles.

 

[Fenix Mike]

I will never own a large frame AR platform that is not an SR25. I’ve had mine for a couple years and love it. It replaced an LMT MWS, which was a fine rifle but I couldn’t get it to behave with a can on.

If you plan to support/maintain the rifle yourself you will need some specialized tooling but that’s the only consideration I can think of beyond the obvious (cost vs benefit from your perspective).

I cant see myself doing much to it other than a surefire brake for my can, glass, and possibly doing a PRS or A2 stock later, however since the Scar 20 is pretty much a dedicated benchrest gun with its fixed stock, I may leave this one with the sop mod. I was leaning APC with the 16 inch, but the 20 inch seems to be more rare with better resale, and since they cost the same, I will probably go 20 inch.

 

[nn8734]

I cant see myself doing much to it other than a surefire brake for my can, glass, and possibly doing a PRS or A2 stock later, however since the Scar 20 is pretty much a dedicated benchrest gun with its fixed stock, I may leave this one with the sop mod. I was leaning APC with the 16 inch, but the 20 inch seems to be more rare with better resale, and since they cost the same, I will probably go 20 inch.

Yep, it’s a great choice, regardless of the barrel length but I don’t see as many APRs relative to APCs either; they do seem to be more scarce. It will be smooth shooting with a fixed or collapsing stock.
I’ve put both on mine and actually like the collapsible better. I’d find it very unlikely you would have to take the gun apart for any reason unless you wanted to change barrel lengths. The mod 2 gas system design found on the URX4-equipped rifles are sweet as well.

 

[Fenix Mike]

A detailed comparison between the LMT MWS and the KAC SR-25

Very interesting... I wish I hadn't sold my LMT now!

 

[nn8734]

@Fenix Mike , I feel the KAC is the only rifle you can upgrade to from an MWS. Overall build quality is damn near identical, they are both wonderful to shoot and will last forever if taken care of. The biggest trade off, outside of cost, is the heavier weight that comes with the multi caliber QC capability of the LMT. KAC will hold their value better and are very market insensitive in this regard whereas Ive seen move volatility in LMT pricing in the secondary market...Do know you are paying a brand-driven premium if you buy the KAC. Since I’m a unapologetic Knights fan, that’s ok with me but it’s a consideration for anyone contemplating an SR25 (or any knights rifle for that matter).

 

[Fenix Mike]

@Fenix Mike , I feel the KAC is the only rifle you can upgrade to from an MWS. Overall build quality is damn near identical, they are both wonderful to shoot and will last forever if taken care of. The biggest trade off, outside of cost, is the heavier weight that comes with the multi caliber QC capability of the LMT. KAC will hold their value better and are very market insensitive in this regard whereas Ive seen move volatility in LMT pricing in the secondary market...Do know you are paying a brand-driven premium if you buy the KAC. Since I’m a unapologetic Knights fan, that’s ok with me but it’s a consideration for anyone contemplating an SR25 (or any knights rifle for that matter).

I get them at LE price, so while it still hurts, A LOT, its not as bad as MSRP+. I literally just called LMT to order a MLK MWS Sniper 20 inch, but they won't sell direct, not a single retailer in the country stocks one, and they said if I order one I won't have it until September or October. Looks like Knights will probably get my business this time around. Im actually a closet LWRC REPR fan too, but the resale is just so poor on them that if/when I decide to get something else, I will have to take a complete bath on the purchase.

 

[Fenix Mike]

Check with V1 Tactical. The lead time will most likely be the same. But they have always had the best prices on LMT products. I've ordered a LMT 308 BCG and MWS MLK upper from them in the past.

The wait may be worth it If you get a decent price... looks like the price after add it to their cart is: $2,599.
https://v1tactical.com/product/sniper_rifle/

Good find! I emailed them, we will see what they say

 

[deadly0311]

Having had close friends/shooting buddies with lots of large frame ARs GAP, LMT, JP, home builds there aren’t any that just flat out work day in day out with boring reliability outside the SR25. Accuracy is great for a 16” gun, I have the ACC and haven’t found it lacking anything other than weight to the APC. Knights has the reliability down pat. The ACC is a very soft shooting rifle and easy to carry for long distances.
I have never found myself wanting more barrel. The 16” is consistent to about 875 and in for me which is the majority of what it’s used for.

 

[hlee]

How has @TheGerman not wandered in here yet?

 

[sleeplz]

Buy them all, I personally dont see the price tag with knights but different strokes. HK spanked knights in army trials if that matters to you.

 

[deadly0311]

By spanked what do you mean? Are there actually baby HKs in circulation from that contract award or is it still not fielded

 

[RyanScott]

@sleeplz If you have the data from the test I’ve not seen it publicly released but I would like to.

 

[Jsp556]

@sleeplz If you have the data from the test I’ve not seen it publicly released but I would like to.

I’m sure everyone would.

 

[scharfschutze762]

Buy them all, I personally dont see the price tag with knights but different strokes. HK spanked knights in army trials if that matters to you.

Uhh Bullshit...and I have first hand experience in this subject.

 

[scharfschutze762]

The only advantage to the HK is if you ran in FA a bunch.

 

[The DFC]

Sounds like you need a KAC large frame after reading the list you've owned. You've pretty much owned all the high end commercial rigs save for JP. I'm still stuck on the stupid accuracy of LMT-probably for good. Small frame-I'm KAC all the way and you already have the grail AR15 IMO-KAC-LPR.

Funny-I have a 4-16 ATACR on my LPR.

 

[scharfschutze762]

To the OP
I have all the above and the KAC is worth the extra bucks for me. Very Accurate, reliable, points and balances great and very soft recoil pulse, and great barrels made by a gentleman on this site. Plus its sexy with great fit and finish.
And FYI i was not a fan of KAC years ago.

 

[1911hombre]

Im actually a closet LWRC REPR fan too

Here's for your closeted self.... I also run a 4-16x42 ATACR. I can honestly say I've never had a malfunction with this MK I, suppressed or not, with any ammunition including Malaysian L2A2. TBAC Ultra 9.

 

[Fenix Mike]

I bought a sr25 today, but I think I’m gonna get a LMT too, sept-oct delivery date

 

[WillHugh]

That's the best solution!

I'm working through the same dilemma at the moment. Bought an LMT mars heavy lower on a whim, and now can't decide whether to do a 6.5 LMT upper or grab a 16 inch Knights APC. Keep us updated on how she runs!

 

[Fenix Mike]

Here's for your closeted self.... I also run a 4-16x42 ATACR. I can honestly say I've never had a malfunction with this MK I, suppressed or not, with any ammunition including Malaysian L2A2. TBAC Ultra 9.
View attachment 7320589

I had some issues with hand loads when they got warmer on the 20 inch model. I ended up drilling out the “off” position on the piston to my own desired hole size, then it ran like a sewing machine. If they weren’t $1k more than the LMT, I’d seriously consider another.

 

[Fenix Mike]

Sounds like you need a KAC large frame after reading the list you've owned. You've pretty much owned all the high end commercial rigs save for JP. I'm still stuck on the stupid accuracy of LMT-probably for good. Small frame-I'm KAC all the way and you already have the grail AR15 IMO-KAC-LPR.

Funny-I have a 4-16 ATACR on my LPR.

I do as well fits perfect on there! Titan has an order of LMTs due in sept, so I told him I’d call him in a week or so and stick a deposit on a sniper rig. I’m excited for the kac!

 

[theLBC]

I do as well fits perfect on there! Titan has an order of LMTs due in sept, so I told him I’d call him in a week or so and stick a deposit on a sniper rig. I’m excited for the kac!

this thread makes me feel like one of the poors.

 

[Jsp556]

I bought a sr25 today, but I think I’m gonna get a LMT too, sept-oct delivery date

Baller achievement unlocked....

If you wanna tame the gas on your lmt, remove the gas tube and drill the desired port size on the other side of the tube. Or hit the easy button and get one from BRT.

 

[Jigstick]

Why not a Seekins SP10 or SP10M?

 

[Fenix Mike]

Why not a Seekins SP10 or SP10M?

I won't give Seekins any of my money. They did me dirty over a $100 gas block, so I sure as hell won't buy a rifle from them.

 

[Fenix Mike]

this thread makes me feel like one of the poors.

Gov LE job + no wife + no kids = Selfish gun owner

 

[Jigstick]

Interesting. I’ve never had anything but good experiences with Seekins.

 

[Fenix Mike]

Interesting. I’ve never had anything but good experiences with Seekins.

Not saying you havent. I dealt with an idiot salesman, then Bill even got on the phone and said the same thing. Not worth getting into, but they told me one thing, on a public forum, then went back on their word after I bought something and it didn't work. If they won't stand behind a $100 product, im sure as hell not giving them $2,000+.

 

[bigjake83]

It's funny how everyone speaks of SR25 Accuracy but yet no one has ever done a 6x5?

I've personally seen more LMT's out perform SR25's in the accuracy department, but everybody seems to treat them like the fat prom date nobody wants to be seen with.

Now if I wanted a rifle with unquestionable reliability accuracy that is proven time and time again to be .65 MOA or less Shooters and customer service that is above reproach, what would I do??? Oh yeah now i remember, I'D BUY A JP LRP07!!!!

I'll even put my money where my mouth is... The first person that recordes themselves shooting a 6x5 at 100 yards with a SR25 and averaging .65 MOA or less I'll send $100 to them!

 

[deadly0311]

Hard pass on the JP for me

 

[bigjake83]

Hard pass on the JP for me

Any particular reason why?

 

[deadly0311]

Seen them go down quite a bit when others kept running fine. Their recoil impulse is pretty harsh and the ones I’ve been around haven’t shot super great and are ammo sensitive

 

[bigjake83]

Seen them go down quite a bit when others kept running fine. Their recoil impulse is pretty harsh

bro I'm not trying to incite an argument with you but I think that's complete horseshit... They are literally the softest shooting AR on the market right now, and as far as picky with ammo, your friends must be using some cheap-ass stuff, every JP I've shot has absolutely hammered with Hornady, Prime ,Federal gold medal match and black hills. And I've definitely never seen one go "down" have I seen stoppages or failure to eject absolutely but a two second remedial action and back on target.

 

[deadly0311]

Call it as you see fit. The recoil impulse is more harsh, the 2 that I’ve been around are finicky as hell with the ammo and cleaning. I’m glad you’re stuck on JP, good on them. They’re not for me

 

[The DFC]

Now the thread turns into brand based bickering

Congrats on the KAC-did you go SS or chrome barrel?

 

[hk_shootr]

I’ve got an ACC that shoots just under an inch on a good day, it’s accurate enough for me

I’ve owned an LMT, wonderful system, but it’s a pig

 

[Fenix Mike]

Now the thread turns into brand based bickering

Congrats on the KAC-did you go SS or chrome barrel?

I went with the 20 inch APR precision rifle

 

[SFree]

I’ve got an ACC that shoots just under an inch on a good day, it’s accurate enough for me

I’ve owned an LMT, wonderful system, but it’s a pig

LMT will usually hold accuracy better over longer strings of fire. Mine is 14 lbs dressed out with a Gen2 Razor, but it’s a lot lighter than my 18+lb AIAT and I carry it any time I have a bolt gun

 

[DustBun]

I went with the 20 inch APR precision rifle

Congrats on your APR.

 

[Mike_Honcho]

I went with the 20 inch APR precision rifle

20" :

 

[hk_shootr]

LMT will usually hold accuracy better over longer strings of fire. Mine is 14 lbs dressed out with a Gen2 Razor, but it’s a lot lighter than my 18+lb AIAT and I carry it any time I have a bolt gun

yep......they do shoot well

 

[M5NSX]

I have a KAC SR25, HK MR762, FN SCAR 17S and San Swiss Sig 751. They are all very nice 308 semi auto platforms (would take the Sig if I could only have one).To me they are all still main battle rifles that can be used as “sniper” rifle. They will no doubt put dicks in the dirt. Nice to have 20rds on tap to engage multiple targets but I mostly shoot my Tac Ops bolt guns for long range accuracy.

 

[bigjake83]

I have a KAC SR25, HK MR762, FN SCAR 17S and San Swiss Sig 751. They are all very nice 308 semi auto platforms (would take the Sig if I could only have one).To me they are all still main battle rifles that can be used as “sniper” rifle. They will no doubt put dicks in the dirt. Nice to have 20rds on tap to engage multiple targets but I mostly shoot my Tac Ops bolt guns for long range accuracy.
View attachment 7321254View attachment 7321253

 

[Fenix Mike]

LMT will usually hold accuracy better over longer strings of fire. Mine is 14 lbs dressed out with a Gen2 Razor, but it’s a lot lighter than my 18+lb AIAT and I carry it any time I have a bolt gun

Mine was a tank too

 

[RyanScott]

Look up Bryan Litz’s data on hit probability versus accuracy. Going from .65 to 1 minute isn’t going to matter. Now, if the LMT weighed what the KAC weighed and didn’t have a huge gas port too close to the chamber I would pick the accuracy increase but...I like that the KAC is 1 pound lighter.

 

[GUNNER10]

The few threads I found were mostly 3 pages of bickering, a few opinions that Knights rifles are handed down by God himself, and none is better. I’ve owned a lot of rifles, Currently have a sr15 lpr and sr16 sbr, but I recently sold my mr762 (may have made a big mistake, but oh well) and want a replacement. I have a Scar 20 already that is a laser, and a scar 17 13 inch sbr, so I want a 16-20 inch ar 308 platform as well. I’ve had LMT, and other than being a pig, the MWS was stupid accurate, even with the 20 inch chrome lined barrel. I’ve also had the Daniel defense stuff, which is great for the money, had Lwrc reprs which weren’t bad after some tweaking... larue stuff ran well as long as you didn’t load hot, then they completely poop themselves, although still delivering 1/2-3/4 moa while doing so.

I feel like it’s time to get a SR25, specifically the APC or the APR. it’s a large investment for a rifle that doesn’t say “accuracy international” or “Barrett” on the side, but they do hold their value, and the fan boy status is top notch. I just wanted some opinions from those who HAVE ACTUALLY OWNED a SR25, and can compare it either positively or negatively to other similar top tier rifles. The LMT sniper system is $1500 cheaper and equally sexy, Larue is $2,000 cheaper, and many more are half the price or less.

Thoughts?

Oh, and I do shoot 1,000+, it will only eat match ammo, it will only run suppressed, and I have a nightforce atacr 4-16 waiting for it.

As sombody who currently owns the an MWS, ACC and a Scar, I can offer my opinion on the matter, but it is only an opinion and depending on what you are looking for in a rifle it may or may not be the best options

Of the 3 rifles, The ACC stands above the other 3 as the most refined weapon. its a purpose built 8lb, 16 inch gas gun that just does everything a little better than the LMT and FN.

Its the same weight as the Scar, but far more shootable, has a noticibly lower recoil impulse despite the Scar having a brake and the ACC having a FH. Better ergos and does not put electro optics at risk of failure.

Its about a half pound lighter than the LMT in its lightest configuration, and doesn't run quite as hard as the LMT, which depending on your usage, may or may not be a bad thing. Now, My ACC will not be able to drop a match 6.5 barrel in on the fly nor can it be a 13.5 short barrel, it does the 16 inch 308 incredibly well but doing a 14.5 upper or 6.5 upper is prohibitively expense

In term of how i would rank those three rifles,
MWS based on its modular nature, its just more flexible, The ACC is just not going to be able to outshoot my 6.5 barrel at range.
ACC, in terms of a general propose, 308 carbine, It just works in so many areas
Scar, honestly it fits the same role as the ACC, weight and size wise but doesnt have the factory support as the LMT. And shooting the it back to back with ACC, i honestly day I have the feeling like what is wrong with you, why do you recoil like this.

In terms of pricing, I would say that the My ACC feels way more like a 4200 dollar rifle than the Scar feels like a 3000 dollar weapon, With that being said, I am not sure if I think the ACC is almost 2000 better than the LMT.

So in closing, they are all really good weapons and depending on your criteria, could be a great choice.