It’s been beat to death... but KAC SR25 versus...

[mgrs]

As sombody who currently owns the an MWS, ACC and a Scar, I can offer my opinion on the matter, but it is only an opinion and depending on what you are looking for in a rifle it may or may not be the best options

<cut for brevity>

Wow, great to see an objective post with actual observations.

Almost exactly my observations with them.

ACC is probably the standout SR25 as it is a heavy carbine that handles like a 5.56. It really excels in that role (as well as reliably cycling suppressed/unsuppressed without any adjustable blocks or tuning) but can be pressed into doing a lot of other things reasonably well.

It will turn in some good groups, but it is important to not fall into the expectation that it is a precision rifle akin to JP, Seekins, LT OBR/tOBR, etc. It was never meant to do that. It was meant to have very long component life, high reliability, and function with/without a suppressor.

In intended use, an ACC is closer to a SCAR17, compared to which it is pretty great.

If you want a tiny-group precision rifle, probably others that will do it better/cheaper than an SR25

 

[hk_shootr]

Bravo......the ACC is a wonderful rifle, super smooth shooter

 

[rrroadster]

No M&P10 love out there?

 

[Fenix Mike]

Well in my typical fashion, instead of just choosing APC or APR, Ive now ordered one of each. I still would like another LMT later down the line, but at least for now I have 16 and 20 inch covered

 

[Tonsofguns]

Well in my typical fashion, instead of just choosing APC or APR, Ive now ordered one of each. I still would like another LMT later down the line, but at least for now I have 16 and 20 inch covered

after owning and shooting your sr 25's, I wonder if you are still going to say that the scar 17 is the best rifle known to man

 

[Fenix Mike]

after owning and shooting your sr 25's, I wonder if you are still going to say that the scar 17 is the best rifle known to man

We will see, the scar 20 is Really a shooter!

 

[Tonsofguns]

We will see, the scar 20 is Really a shooter!

it seems like it. I need to get my hands on one eventually.

Will be interested in seeing how the kac perform versus your scars.

 

[Jory45acp]

I think to honestly answer your question only you can decide what a KAC is worth and what will you consider "good enough" to justify the cost. I have a KAC SR -25 RAS Match that shoots as good as it gets for a large frame rifle. Now maybe I'm lucky I got a good barrel and the next guy won't be as lucky, who knows. Mine is from 2005 just prior to their military contract for SR-25's. I find there will always be people out there who don't own higher end weapons that love to stand on the side and blather on how they are overpriced and suck. Whatever. My money, my choice. I have Midwest Industries and JP Enterprise .308 rifles also. Each one is nice, and $ for $ the Midwest really shoots well above it's grade. My KAC is the most repeatable of the 3 for groups. I feel it's worth every penny, but ultimately only you can decide for you and you need to feel comfortable with what you end up with. I would ignore the loud mouth critics and think there must a reason why KAC rifles hold their value so well if they suck so bad and are overpriced.

 

[NotBIBOStable]

Out of curiosity, how was your "pig" lmt decked out? I've got one on the way and by my math it will be 8.75 with an MLOK upper and the lightweight 16" barrel. To me that seems like it should do the trick and give a rifle that is just a little bit beefier than the KAC. Have you thought of possibly going that route and trying to trim some pudge off the LMT? Also, curious if there is any other tricks that might help bring the weight down a bit from you guys in the know. Right now all I can think of is running a lw optic like the NX8 and maybe lighter grip/furniture. Don't want to do anything crazy like skeletonizing the upper or lower.

 

[Tonsofguns]

Out of curiosity, how was your "pig" lmt decked out? I've got one on the way and by my math it will be 8.75 with an MLOK upper and the lightweight 16" barrel. To me that seems like it should do the trick and give a rifle that is just a little bit beefier than the KAC. Have you thought of possibly going that route and trying to trim some pudge off the LMT? Also, curious if there is any other tricks that might help bring the weight down a bit from you guys in the know. Right now all I can think of is running a lw optic like the NX8 and maybe lighter grip/furniture. Don't want to do anything crazy like skeletonizing the upper or lower.

If you want a lightweight 308 just get something else. I currently have a 13 inch barrel with a mams brake on the way, that should save some weight. However, my Lmt is usuallly set up for Dmr style with lots of mag and a bipod and everything. My scar 17 is my lighter run and gun 308.

 

[Strykervet]

it seems like it. I need to get my hands on one eventually.

Will be interested in seeing how the kac perform versus your scars.

I just picked up a Mk20 in 7.62 for $3500, guess I couldn't pass it up. We'll see here sooner rather than later I guess, I already have the SR25 APR. Just waiting on it to get here, then the usual bullshit with WA state before I can pick it up.

I'm very interested in seeing them side by side. But I have a feeling the SR25 is gonna be the more accurate of the two, I mean, it's got the cut rifled barrel FFS.

 

[FALex]

Seen them go down quite a bit when others kept running fine. Their recoil impulse is pretty harsh and the ones I’ve been around haven’t shot super great and are ammo sensitive

The first, and likely last time I will ever read this again. Environment permitting, I can spot my own trace on my LRP-07. If you're feeling a harsh recoil impulse on a JP rifle, you are absolutely, 100% doing it wrong.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

I have a KAC SR25, HK MR762, FN SCAR 17S and San Swiss Sig 751. They are all very nice 308 semi auto platforms (would take the Sig if I could only have one).To me they are all still main battle rifles that can be used as “sniper” rifle. They will no doubt put dicks in the dirt. Nice to have 20rds on tap to engage multiple targets but I mostly shoot my Tac Ops bolt guns for long range accuracy.
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Damnn ! Ballin outta control son!
Where the hell did you find a Sig 751? That’s about the coolest thing I’ve seen on here dude

 

[M5NSX]

Damnn ! Ballin outta control son!
Where the hell did you find a Sig 751? That’s about the coolest thing I’ve seen on here dude

Dave Wagner of JDI Firearms in Frisco Texas is the importer for Swiss Arms. He imports them as pistols and then you SBR them or add a stock. He imports very limited number so you have to jump on them. They will also appear on GB but usually for significantly more. I have Swiss Sig 553 and 551 SBRs too. Have a deposit on a PE90. Love the Swiss guns!!

 

[Tonsofguns]

Damnn ! Ballin outta control son!
Where the hell did you find a Sig 751? That’s about the coolest thing I’ve seen on here dude

jdi imports for the san swiss 751. Be prepared to wait. Supposedly, I will get mine in October 2020 after a two year wait, if it does come through at that time.

You can also find them on gunbroker at an around $2-3k premium. I've even seem some of them sell for double the price.

 

[Fenix Mike]

I just picked up a Mk20 in 7.62 for $3500, guess I couldn't pass it up. We'll see here sooner rather than later I guess, I already have the SR25 APR. Just waiting on it to get here, then the usual bullshit with WA state before I can pick it up.

I'm very interested in seeing them side by side. But I have a feeling the SR25 is gonna be the more accurate of the two, I mean, it's got the cut rifled barrel FFS.

The scar 20 is significantly more accurate than the sr25... I’m selling both of my sr25s and keeping my scar

 

[Fenix Mike]

it seems like it. I need to get my hands on one eventually.

Will be interested in seeing how the kac perform versus your scars.

The sr25 is a smoother shooter, but I didn’t enjoy shooting it until I put a prs stock on... its a 1 moa gun all day with some groups going sub, but the scar 20 just runs circles around it, effortlessly printing 1/2-3/4 groups with any ammo. The scar 20 does have a sharper recoil impulse I wasn’t fond of, but nothing uncomfortable, just not buttery smooth like the sr25.

 

[BravoSector1]

Why not build one? I'm running an M5E1 Aero Precision FDE upper lower with an 18" Proof Research barrel, Wilson Combat adjustable gas block and Geissele SSA-E trigger. Very happy with the build and it was done for a hair over $2k.

 

[theLBC]

The sr25 is a smoother shooter, but I didn’t enjoy shooting it until I put a prs stock on... its a 1 moa gun all day with some groups going sub, but the scar 20 just runs circles around it, effortlessly printing 1/2-3/4 groups with any ammo. The scar 20 does have a sharper recoil impulse I wasn’t fond of, but nothing uncomfortable, just not buttery smooth like the sr25.

you might prefer a softer recoil plate. personally not sure how durable they are...

 

[Fenix Mike]

Why not build one? I'm running an M5E1 Aero Precision FDE upper lower with an 18" Proof Research barrel, Wilson Combat adjustable gas block and Geissele SSA-E trigger. Very happy with the build and it was done for a hair over $2k.

resale value, no guarantee the parts are worth a shit, etc. To each their own, I dont have any issue spending the money on a quality product, nor selling it when I dont like it.

 

[BravoSector1]

resale value, no guarantee the parts are worth a shit, etc. To each their own, I dont have any issue spending the money on a quality product, nor selling it when I dont like it.

Roger that. Not sure if it came up but the new Daniel Defense V5, in .308 or 6.5 creed, has an adjustable gas block and might also be a good option.

 

[Fenix Mike]

Roger that. Not sure if it came up but the new Daniel Defense V5, in .308 or 6.5 creed, has an adjustable gas block and might also be a good option.

This thread is old, ive already long since bought, and am now selling, the rifles.
Thanks though

 

[Stonebridge]

The sr25 is a smoother shooter, but I didn’t enjoy shooting it until I put a prs stock on... its a 1 moa gun all day with some groups going sub, but the scar 20 just runs circles around it, effortlessly printing 1/2-3/4 groups with any ammo. The scar 20 does have a sharper recoil impulse I wasn’t fond of, but nothing uncomfortable, just not buttery smooth like the sr25.

Did you see any practical difference between the APC and APR?

 

[Fenix Mike]

Did you see any practical difference between the APC and APR?

Tough to say, it was much more difficult to get a good cheek on the apc since my apr had the prs on it, and I swapped lowers for fun which made the apc shoot better. I did get some good groups with the apr, just not what I expected. Sadly I never went past 300 yards because all the ranges are still closed here and I couldn’t find a spot in the desert to get more than 300

 

[schmi015]

@Strykervet You have a range report on that Scar20 yet?

 

[MountainDiver]

Good find! I emailed them, we will see what they say

First post, happy to be here! I actually just joined Snipershide today due to finding reliable information here. And, I just ordered a LMT today so wanted to join the ranks here. Mike, I called John at V1 today and placed an order for a the MLK MWS Sniper 20 inch gun and it will be here in December/January. I see this is from May so you've probably already spoke with him. Just wanted to give you a heads up that when I called and ordered, he had 4 coming in Dec./Jan. Two were already spoken for and I snagged the third. He still has one available if you're still in need....

 

[hellishot]

I have a KAC SR25, HK MR762, FN SCAR 17S and San Swiss Sig 751. They are all very nice 308 semi auto platforms (would take the Sig if I could only have one).To me they are all still main battle rifles that can be used as “sniper” rifle. They will no doubt put dicks in the dirt. Nice to have 20rds on tap to engage multiple targets but I mostly shoot my Tac Ops bolt guns for long range accuracy.
View attachment 7321254View attachment 7321253

What a collection!

 

[CrabsandFootball]

First post, happy to be here! I actually just joined Snipershide today due to finding reliable information here. And, I just ordered a LMT today so wanted to join the ranks here. Mike, I called John at V1 today and placed an order for a the MLK MWS Sniper 20 inch gun and it will be here in December/January. I see this is from May so you've probably already spoke with him. Just wanted to give you a heads up that when I called and ordered, he had 4 coming in Dec./Jan. Two were already spoken for and I snagged the third. He still has one available if you're still in need....

I was gona go that route but want 6.5cm. totally divested of 308 and it's a waste to spend $3k on one. Ended up getting the last mars H lower from v1 and am piecing together a full LMT ( minus trigger, the lmt sucks) parts. Should be a fun ride.

 

[grant_of_florida]

The few threads I found were mostly 3 pages of bickering, a few opinions that Knights rifles are handed down by God himself, and none is better. I’ve owned a lot of rifles, Currently have a sr15 lpr and sr16 sbr, but I recently sold my mr762 (may have made a big mistake, but oh well) and want a replacement. I have a Scar 20 already that is a laser, and a scar 17 13 inch sbr, so I want a 16-20 inch ar 308 platform as well. I’ve had LMT, and other than being a pig, the MWS was stupid accurate, even with the 20 inch chrome lined barrel. I’ve also had the Daniel defense stuff, which is great for the money, had Lwrc reprs which weren’t bad after some tweaking... larue stuff ran well as long as you didn’t load hot, then they completely poop themselves, although still delivering 1/2-3/4 moa while doing so.

I feel like it’s time to get a SR25, specifically the APC or the APR. it’s a large investment for a rifle that doesn’t say “accuracy international” or “Barrett” on the side, but they do hold their value, and the fan boy status is top notch. I just wanted some opinions from those who HAVE ACTUALLY OWNED a SR25, and can compare it either positively or negatively to other similar top tier rifles. The LMT sniper system is $1500 cheaper and equally sexy, Larue is $2,000 cheaper, and many more are half the price or less.

Thoughts?

Oh, and I do shoot 1,000+, it will only eat match ammo, it will only run suppressed, and I have a nightforce atacr 4-16 waiting for it.

I am a little late to the party but I have an SR25 APC and I also have had a terrible experience with the gun and KAC in general. So I got the SR25 2 years ago, shot it for about 2500 rounds and a few competitions and it was everything it claimed to be, accurate and reliable. Then my groups started opening up and I sent the rifle in for knights to take a look. They said there was pitting in the end of the barrel and it would not be covered under warranty (their excuse being that I live in Florida and it is humid and I didn't have it stored in a safe with a dehumidifier), $1200 and 3 months later, I get my rifle back. My gun is now shooting well again, but reliability degrades to the point where I am having 2-3 FTEs per 20 round mag, so I send it back to them. It turns out that their $1200 servicing of the rifle loosened my gas key. 2 months of waiting later I get my rifle back and it's finally functional. I have since been keeping my rifle case full of dessicant packs, but I recently bore-scoped it again and found the early signs of pitting toward the end of the barrel. If you think I haven't been keeping this thing lubed up and dry ever since the first $1200 then I don't know what to tell you. Overall, I would build an AR10 with a krieger barrel or go with Larue over KAC if hindsight is 20/20... And I have email chains and pictures to back all of this up.

Also, the URX4 handguard causes POI shift if loading the bipod and even if you get the cantilevered scope mount from Spuhr if your objective has a fat ass it will be annoyingly over the charging handle which made me go to a super charging handle for ease of use.

 

[theLBC]

sounds like you are doing what you can. are you using desiccant that changes color.
unless you have closed cell foam, i don't recommend storing a rifle in a case. some foam can act like a sponge, particularly pluck foam.

 

[grant_of_florida]

sounds like you are doing what you can. are you using desiccant that changes color.
unless you have closed cell foam, i don't recommend storing a rifle in a case. some foam can act like a sponge, particularly pluck foam.

Yes, I use ones that change from orange to green and rotate them regularly. The case is a pelican. Pic related. On a semi-related note, will krieger make a 16" stainless barrel for an SR25 APC?

 

[Jsp556]

Sucks that you’re having trouble. Hopefully you get it resolved.

 

[Wizard1183]

The few threads I found were mostly 3 pages of bickering, a few opinions that Knights rifles are handed down by God himself, and none is better. I’ve owned a lot of rifles, Currently have a sr15 lpr and sr16 sbr, but I recently sold my mr762 (may have made a big mistake, but oh well) and want a replacement. I have a Scar 20 already that is a laser, and a scar 17 13 inch sbr, so I want a 16-20 inch ar 308 platform as well. I’ve had LMT, and other than being a pig, the MWS was stupid accurate, even with the 20 inch chrome lined barrel. I’ve also had the Daniel defense stuff, which is great for the money, had Lwrc reprs which weren’t bad after some tweaking... larue stuff ran well as long as you didn’t load hot, then they completely poop themselves, although still delivering 1/2-3/4 moa while doing so.

I feel like it’s time to get a SR25, specifically the APC or the APR. it’s a large investment for a rifle that doesn’t say “accuracy international” or “Barrett” on the side, but they do hold their value, and the fan boy status is top notch. I just wanted some opinions from those who HAVE ACTUALLY OWNED a SR25, and can compare it either positively or negatively to other similar top tier rifles. The LMT sniper system is $1500 cheaper and equally sexy, Larue is $2,000 cheaper, and many more are half the price or less.

Thoughts?

Oh, and I do shoot 1,000+, it will only eat match ammo, it will only run suppressed, and I have a nightforce atacr 4-16 waiting for it.

Why not Scar17 with 16.25” barrel?

 

[Praetorian_6]

I am a little late to the party but I have an SR25 APC and I also have had a terrible experience with the gun and KAC in general. So I got the SR25 2 years ago, shot it for about 2500 rounds and a few competitions and it was everything it claimed to be, accurate and reliable. Then my groups started opening up and I sent the rifle in for knights to take a look. They said there was pitting in the end of the barrel and it would not be covered under warranty (their excuse being that I live in Florida and it is humid and I didn't have it stored in a safe with a dehumidifier), $1200 and 3 months later, I get my rifle back. My gun is now shooting well again, but reliability degrades to the point where I am having 2-3 FTEs per 20 round mag, so I send it back to them. It turns out that their $1200 servicing of the rifle loosened my gas key. 2 months of waiting later I get my rifle back and it's finally functional. I have since been keeping my rifle case full of dessicant packs, but I recently bore-scoped it again and found the early signs of pitting toward the end of the barrel. If you think I haven't been keeping this thing lubed up and dry ever since the first $1200 then I don't know what to tell you. Overall, I would build an AR10 with a krieger barrel or go with Larue over KAC if hindsight is 20/20... And I have email chains and pictures to back all of this up.

Also, the URX4 handguard causes POI shift if loading the bipod and even if you get the cantilevered scope mount from Spuhr if your objective has a fat ass it will be annoyingly over the charging handle which made me go to a super charging handle for ease of use.

Thanks for your experience. I've got the bug to get an SR-25 and have been waiting 10 months for it. A 2-3 MOA rifle is unacceptable for the price/weight/expectation. That said, this is the only data point I've seen suggesting such a problem. So, I'll keep my hopes up & keep an eye on the barrel.

 

[DavidAR10]

I have a KAC SR25, HK MR762, FN SCAR 17S and San Swiss Sig 751. They are all very nice 308 semi auto platforms (would take the Sig if I could only have one).To me they are all still main battle rifles that can be used as “sniper” rifle. They will no doubt put dicks in the dirt. Nice to have 20rds on tap to engage multiple targets but I mostly shoot my Tac Ops bolt guns for long range accuracy.
View attachment 7321254View attachment 7321253

My penis hurt me.