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Night Vision It’s coming...
- Thread starter TheHorta
- Start date
Thanks Jay, I keep waiting for the "right" NV/Thermal at the right price, I suppose I'd be one of the "poors" around here as this gear puts the cost of my TT to shame. Problem is I don't "need" NV, but I also don't want to be left without when I do "need" it...
Are more available ?
How close is poa / poi when you mount in front of day scope ?
Did I hear this is TracIR compatible ?
How close is poa / poi when you mount in front of day scope ?
Did I hear this is TracIR compatible ?
Highly unlikely, but I’d love to be surprised.
Do we know if this thing has a Risley prism?
Who makes the core? Where?
Where is it assembled?
This sucka has great features, and I want to like this thing... I’m trying!
Yep. Tangent Theta from a price perspective will get you a decent mid level hobby type thermal. My hobby finances have been destroyed since I started lurking around here. There's cellar dwellers like me lurking around trying to eek out a measly setup for 5k, and then there is the elites, speaking in acronyms and shooting stuff off their yachts. Shit, I am about to buy a nvg mount for one of my setups that costs more than my first rifle...by a lot.
Previously when NV was it's own forum I was able to stay away but now I see this stuff pop up and I keep looking and thinking... if I keep looking it's going to get me in trouble 
Wise thinking and captures my sentiment exactly. It's only money. My only regret is that I didn't pay much attention to thermal until after I bought my RAPTAR and unlocked it.
This. . . .
Spent ~2 TT's just to get a mediocre unit. And already looking at this as a upgrade. Wishing I would have just spent the $$$ to get a skeet out of the starting gate.
Great pictures man! Congrats on your acquisition too.
Looking forward to reading your review.
I’ve been looking so much forward to this review.
As an evil commie European, I don’t have access to all the good stuff (at least with warranty), only through grey marked.
But, the TigIR is German made, and is perfectly doable here in Denmark
, so now I will get to know if I can get some of the best in the world, or if I have to lurk in here with envy.
I reeeeeaaaaally hope that this is not as good as the UTC, because then I don’t have to buy burn all my savings on the TigIR !
As an evil commie European, I don’t have access to all the good stuff (at least with warranty), only through grey marked.
But, the TigIR is German made, and is perfectly doable here in Denmark
, so now I will get to know if I can get some of the best in the world, or if I have to lurk in here with envy. I reeeeeaaaaally hope that this is not as good as the UTC, because then I don’t have to buy burn all my savings on the TigIR !
I’ve been looking so much forward to this review.
As an evil commie European, I don’t have access to all the good stuff (at least with warranty), only through grey marked.
But, the TigIR is German made, and is perfectly doable here in Denmark
I reeeeeaaaaally hope that this is not as good as the UTC, because then I don’t have to buy burn all my savings on the TigIR !
Then you will be very sad to hear that the TigIR-6M is, in my "Way to early to render a verdict" verdict, a very real UTC-X/Xii competitor -- for most.
I woke up at about 0300 and have been wide awake ever since. My body is still on Kenya time. I tried to go back to bed, but got up at 0400 (a normal morning, for some here) and decided to do some direct comparisons. I mounted them, one after the other, back and forth, on an SR-25 with a brand new SB PMII Ultra Short 5-20 with Tremor3 reticle, almost the perfect scope for this comparison (a 3-20 would be a little better, as both the UTC and TigIR become usable at right about 3x -- anything less, and there's severe tunneling).
It's currently 40*F, no humidity, perfectly clear night (morning). I can easily see the cows at 400+ yards from my porch through both units.
Both the UTC and Tig can see the cow's detailed outline at ~400-500 yards, *including* the ears.
I feel both are usable up to ~20x.
The Tig has a noticeably finer display dot pitch -- likely due to it's ~50% higher number of display pixels (UTC= 640x480, Tig= 800x600).
Up to 12x magnification, the Tig, in my extremely preliminary comparison, seems to have an ever-so-slight advantage in clarity. Above 12x, I would call it a draw, but with a caveat -- the pixels on the UTC are "blocky" and product a very sharp "LEGO" image. The pixels on the Tig are more rounded and "softer" and produce a smoother image, but it looks slightly "fuzzy", for lack of a better word. It's a different image and will likely come down to personal preference. I would surmise that, if you are accustomed to the UTC, you'll prefer the UTC. If you were accustomed to the Tig, you'd prefer the Tig. If you don't have experience with either, you'll love which ever one you get!
That said, the Tig has yet another party piece the UTC lacks -- a digital zoom! This may *sound* trivial, but I assure you, it's not! At 2x, the digital zoom appears to lose little to no resolution, meaning when you're locked in at 20x on your optic, and hit the zoom button, BAM!, you're at 40x and it looks DAMN good! I was watching a cow head at >400 yards FILL the entire view through the scope and saw ears twitching! That blew me away! 4x digital zoom is definitely usable, but at 20x optical magnification, it becomes a moot point. This means, amazingly, the TigIR-6M becomes MUCH more useful on a LPVO or Elcan or ACOG than the UTC-X/Xii ever could be. I'd have zero problem using this in front of a 1/4x or 1.5/6x Elcan (the optic Andres Industries recommends for the Tig) and using the digital zoom to effectively give me 12x or even 24x (in a pinch) and taking a shot. I'm going to pop it in from my my Gen3 1-10x Razor and Elcan 1.5/6x tonight to test it out.
The Tig is WAY more compact, front-to-back, and will fit on rails with limited space or full-length scopes where the UTC will not, but it's more "boxy" than the UTC -- not larger, just different.
The objective flip-cover is very clever. The internal NUC/Shutter is the best I've ever seen and is a spectacular feature.
The buttons and menu system are more complex and less intuitive than the UTC, but it has a lot more features and a bonkers array of color pallets.
Both the UTC and Tig come standard with the same ~1.35" height, which I'm not a big fan of, but the Tig comes with three different "risers" that can be used individually or together to easily accommodate any optic centerline height from 1.35" - 1.95".
The FOUR BIGGEST drawbacks -- yet discovered -- on the TigIR-6M are:
1) NO TracIR support! If you have wood for TracIR, the Tig will never have it.
3) NO video-out or ANY input/output possibilities. (I don't care, but some of you may).
DERP! TigIR ***DOES*** have video-out and external power support!!! (see image below)
4) NO objective manual focus! It's a fixed lens. I'm not a fan, but will say that everything beyond ~50 yards is in clear focus and everything past ~100 yards is sharp. I was looking at some of my turkeys at about 20-25 yards and they were soft. I could clearly tell they were Turkeys, and wouldn't have a problem taking a close-in shot at that range, but with the UTC I can focus the objective and clearly see the detail in their individual feathers. That's a no-can-do with the Tig.
I haven't put a round through the Tig yet, so POI shift is currently unknown, but I hope to get that done later today or before sunset this evening.
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Just for reference. Most of my “testing” was performed on the SR-25/PMII 5-25.
Those bolts + Your knuckles + SCAR charging handle = Words that will get you banned from church...Bro . Your mount is backwards. Dafuq
Do you know what the exact difference between the 6m and 6z are in terms of the unit and the kit? I’m getting some conflicting info online.
You’re the man
First, don’t confuse Tilo and TigIR. They’re radically different.
Second, AFAIK, the Tig 6M and 6Z are practically identical in terms of basic bits. The 6M is more ruggedized for .MIL use and is legitimately MIL-STD-810H certified, where I do not believe the Tig-Z is. Also, the M has both a reticle and pic rail mount, which as I understand can’t just be stuck onto the bottom of the Z to make it an M.
I was under the impression the 6Z was able to be pic mounted via some era tac product, but if not... what a neutering. Don't care too much about the reticle, but maybe I'm being close minded.
If it came with the 6M kit and all I had to get was an era-tac mount, that wouldn't be so bad.
If it came with the 6M kit and all I had to get was an era-tac mount, that wouldn't be so bad.
Beer and beef galore! .50 BMG goodness. Fusion fondling. Rolled Rangers. Felonious hijinx.
Biggest thing with that video is you apparently can order the 6Z+ and it comes ready to accept the ERA-TAC mount and spacers. No reticle, but I don’t think most will care.
Where did you buy the M from? They are trying to sell me the Z
Can someone explain why a reticle on a clip on would be of benefit?
i am with deer. could someone explain the reticle. i had assumed you would need a reticle if you used it stand alone. if im using as a clip on i had suspected there is a way to trun the digital reticle off, so you dont have too much going on in line of sight. or doyou alogn it and then turn digital reticle off?
im interested in a unit, but want to understand the reticle to know which unit to go after.
These don't appear to be similar units to the Skeet or UTM. They don't have an adjustable ocular, and they do claim to be pre collimated. All that said, the fact that they don't specify doing it in the instructions, while they do give precise instructions, is what I take to be a clue that it is a different process.
So, I’m on my iPhone right now and not in a position to take much time, but will be updating this thread more as the week goes on.
1) You do NOT need the reticle to collimate Tigger.
2) You do NOT need to get the M version, and as I understand it, there will be no more M’s shipping to North America — so I managed to get “The One.” I knew my otherwise worthless Irish heritage — outside of my unusually high tolerance for alcohol — would come in handy one day.
3) The 6Z comes standard with a plastic housing, but Andres has promised Will’s Optics that, for a nominal up-charge, they will put the 6Z into the same aluminum housing as the 6M, which happens to accommodate the ERA-TAC picatinny rail mount. The certified MIL-STD-810H is in the M model only (understandably), but I suspect the metal-encased Z is probably a M with minuscule software differences — primarily the reticle.
4) The fine collimation procedure is a bit “involved” — one you may need to perform with every gun/optic you intend to pair with Tigger. Multiply that by each digital magnification you intend to use as digital Mag does NOT hold zero.
I didn’t get the chance to shoot it yet, so POI shift is still a black box.
The 6M is factory collimated. The 6Z is NOT!
1) You do NOT need the reticle to collimate Tigger.
2) You do NOT need to get the M version, and as I understand it, there will be no more M’s shipping to North America — so I managed to get “The One.” I knew my otherwise worthless Irish heritage — outside of my unusually high tolerance for alcohol — would come in handy one day.
3) The 6Z comes standard with a plastic housing, but Andres has promised Will’s Optics that, for a nominal up-charge, they will put the 6Z into the same aluminum housing as the 6M, which happens to accommodate the ERA-TAC picatinny rail mount. The certified MIL-STD-810H is in the M model only (understandably), but I suspect the metal-encased Z is probably a M with minuscule software differences — primarily the reticle.
4) The fine collimation procedure is a bit “involved” — one you may need to perform with every gun/optic you intend to pair with Tigger. Multiply that by each digital magnification you intend to use as digital Mag does NOT hold zero.
I didn’t get the chance to shoot it yet, so POI shift is still a black box.
The 6M is factory collimated. The 6Z is NOT!
thanks horta. i was just about to walk away because lookingnat data on the Z it only looked like you could only make it work with a russn adapter. but your comment above resolves that concern. do you happen to know if the lenses are same between z and m? literature seems quiet on that.
6M and 6Z are identical in every way, save for the built-in ERA-TAC rail mount and the .MIL reticle. Everything else is 100% identical.
If I were to do it all over again, I would **NOT** have ordered the 6M and waited 5 months. I would have saved $1,000 and had it 120 days sooner.
The "reticle" is a joke.
Order the 6Z ($10K) and the separate ERA-TAC kit ($500) and be operating operationally in 30 days or less.
/end transmission
If I were to do it all over again, I would **NOT** have ordered the 6M and waited 5 months. I would have saved $1,000 and had it 120 days sooner.
The "reticle" is a joke.
Order the 6Z ($10K) and the separate ERA-TAC kit ($500) and be operating operationally in 30 days or less.
/end transmission
It looks like it was a trade off of optical collimation vs weight. If collimation can be saved and can be done indoors without live fire, I dig the weight savings. Optical collimation can fail ie all those pvs27/30's out there that exhibit more than 1 minute of shift
Since these are not actually collimated, the return to zero should be exactly as consistent or inconsistent as mounting a day scope with a RTZ mount in that same location (in most cases not as rigid as the optics mounting surface).
The RTZ error will combine with the flex from the bridge/ FF hand guard/ etc.
The resulting POI shift will prevent even remotely taking advantage of the excellent day scope magnification capabilities.
Please tell me (with reason) that I’m wrong. I really want this thing to work!
The RTZ error will combine with the flex from the bridge/ FF hand guard/ etc.
The resulting POI shift will prevent even remotely taking advantage of the excellent day scope magnification capabilities.
Please tell me (with reason) that I’m wrong. I really want this thing to work!
I just think its funny that everyone is passing their own judgement on something none of us have used... in other words lets let our almighty supreme leader El Horchata have some time to breath and test it thoroughly, so none of us are out 10k if it doesn't check all the boxes, just saying! its not like a UTC where they will sell out, they are just now getting to market here in the USA,,, no need to rush in orders and be disappointed if it doesn't work. on the other hand it could work better then expected! I understand the hype is real on the hide when new things hit the shelves but there's no need to rush judgement either way. my vote goes to letting Horta be our guinea piglet and my vote (and my wallet) says wait it out for a thorough field review..
if Horta can't provide a review for whatever reason I can do a video review on his unit, assuming we convince him to send it my way
Your confidence has been sorely misplaced.
Machine gun rated, so I'm "assuming" OK with SCAR-20S.
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Machine gun rated, so I'm "assuming" OK with SCAR-20S.
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Break it so we can learn about their warranty service.
