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So being slapped and head spun caused him to reach out across his body?
Cmon man.
Its on the Denver news website, but after 3 pics i get paywalledI think that is pieced together from a photo journalist. So no video.
Was the security guy reaching for victims gun when he got slapped?
Victim is veteran and custom cowboy hat maker (crossfire hats)
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Military vet shot dead in front of son at Antifa rally
THE right-wing protester allegedly killed by a security guard during clashes with Antifa was shot dead in the head in front of his son. Military veteran and grandad Lee Keltner was shot after macin…www.the-sun.com
I slowed the animated gif down cause it was giving me seizures.
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I remain skeptical. Something isn't right here.
Slide in motion, casing appears to have an intact projectile there. Malfunction and clear?
Go use pepper spray on a police officer and see what happens. The most likely justification for the officer's use of deadly force will be some variation on the theme of concern over weapon retention (this was the exact justification for that officer-involved shooting in Atlanta this summer).
Then apply that same logic to an armed civilian, because if that logic applies to a police officer, then it applies to anyone who is legally armed.
I think the gun came out before the spray came up (it was already out but held down), and I think the spray came up in reaction to the gun being drawn.Go use pepper spray on a police officer and see what happens. The most likely justification for the officer's use of deadly force will be some variation on the theme of concern over weapon retention (this was the exact justification for that officer-involved shooting in Atlanta this summer).
Then apply that same logic to an armed civilian, because if that logic applies to a police officer, then it applies to anyone who is legally armed.
In any state, is pepper spray a justified reason to shoot someone?
Depends on who is getting sprayed?
Not saying this about SH members, but I think a lot of folk think only "right wing kooks" go to the range and train or have had "formal training." However, I'm willing to bet a higher percentage of the left than most think has also had training - formal (as in a recognized facility) or through former LE/Mil that do have a leftist view (it happens). Pretty sure, though my last training was a while ago, when I mention I've had some...there are some immediate "eye rolls" and then you get labeled - even by people who are not leftists.
Also the magnitude of shows on TV about self-defense, shooting, 3-gun is staggering and I'm sure this isn't lost on people that choose to use their 2nd Amendment right to actually subvert The Constitution.
So highly likely this person had some type of training and wasn't just a "mall cop." Personally I don't want a RDS on my handgun (call me weird) but it does show a level of "technology" that is a bit more than I'd personally think some green-violet haired ANTIFA member would have.
ps...maybe if I had some time behind a RDS on a handgun I'd change my mind.
Thanks for posting that as I was typing my response, you actually reinforced my point. This could very well be an arm up in a defensive position. If that sequence started earlier it would show bear spray closing a lot of distance.
EDIT: Now that I look at the pics again, they were out of order so maybe there aren't pics of bear spray closing the distance? Not sure but if he did, that could be used for shooter's defense.
Another thing. The victim was engaged with a verbal with the “black guns matter” t shirt guy. Then the victim disengaged to move over to the shooter and engage him. Now what on earth would private security say to someone in a verbal altercation with someone else whom he is not responsible for in order for this whole thing to erupt as quick as it did?
I think the gun came out before the spray came up (it was already out but held down), and I think the spray came up in reaction to the gun being drawn.
Doesn't look like a spent case to me. Looks like a loaded one.As noted previously, pics 1 and 2 are out of order. Put in order.. the slap occurs, the decease immediately steps back, shooter advances. The draw begins before spray is raised, retaliatory response to the slap. In the image with the spent casing, the slide is returning to battery, not on its way back.
I agree it does look that way. But given the location/position of the round in the air, and his grip, I'm thinking the image blur theory posted early makes more sense. Unless this guy has the world's fastest tap rack time and he managed to clear a malfunction and get back to a full shooting grip on target before the round got more than a foot away from the chamber (and before the gun returned to battery lol). Could be, but I'm thinking unlikely.Doesn't look like a spent case to me. Looks like a loaded one.
Theatrical blanks.I agree it does look that way. But given the location/position of the round in the air, and his grip, I'm thinking the image blur theory posted early makes more sense. Unless this guy has the world's fastest tap rack time and he managed to clear a malfunction and get back to a full shooting grip on target before the round got more than a foot away from the chamber (and before the gun returned to battery lol). Could be, but I'm thinking unlikely.
Even if it’s true lately, that more leftists are getting firearms training than “conservatives”(which I don’t really think it is), they’d still be playing catch up by a huge amount. One of the core beliefs of the left is banning firearms, yet they’ve supposedly completely taken over the 2A community and training world now?Well, I have been sprayed by several skunks at arms length distance. They still alive.
According to those I know in the industry, lots and lots of lefties have been training, taking classes and so on, for a long time. They are arguably better trained than a lot of their right wing counterparts. I’m also told they ain’t afraid to spend money and always have topnotch gear.♂
Out of order but let’s assume for a moment that you were right. Why would pepper spray man leave one altercation and move towards and single this guy out? Doesn’t make any sense unless he was just mad and wanted to slap whoever he came across. But the frames seem to infer that the shooter grabbed him first, likely to get him to move back from blue shirt. Redneck didn’t like him placing his hand on him and therefore slapped homie. That in no way justifies deadly force. If that was the case plenty of people would be racking up bodies in high school. Funny how times have changed. Back in my day, people had a dispute, beat the shit out of each other then hugged it out and that was that. Now it seems nobody can take getting punched, insulted or whatever without someone pulling out a gun. There is no way in my mind that deadly force could be justified here. If that is the case, like I said earlier, Kyle R should be released immediately.
Ding ding ding!
Certainly looks that way to me. my guess is the argument is going to be made that he was worried dude would take his gun and use it against him and therefore that is why he thought deadly force was required. looks like murder to me. Imo, there was not reason for deadly force here. Looks to me like he got slapped, didn’t like it and boom.
They've been not fckn around for quite a while IMO. Full on media assault on Trump, attempted impeachment of Trump, etc. If Trump loses, bet your ass they're gonna prosecute him on any and every BS charge they can think of. Guaranteed, we will see Trumo behind bars if he loses the election. Trump voters will likely be doxxed and harassed by the mob if we lose.Well, I don’t know how well trained the leftists are. I don’t know their capabilities when they’re just f—king around, but I certainly know their capabilities when they’re not f—king around...
Oh shit. Here comes the tinfoil!!!!Theatrical blanks.
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Not a security guard...The plot thickens.
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Suspect in Denver shooting not a licensed security guard: report
Matthew Robert Dolloff was reportedly working as a contracted security guard for 9Newswww.foxnews.com
Probably right.. What a idiot. Hope the Bernie bro is proud of himself, he’s gonna be with the big boys now. Can’t imagine the AB has much sympathy or patience for BLM supporting race traitors LOL. If that dumbass thought Trump supporters were racist, just wait for the treat he’s in for upon entering the mega racist prison world.Me thinks reporter and security guy are bros. Reporter been expensing security costs and hiring his bro. The news agency maybe didnt completely vet who reporter was hiring. Either because reporter lied about it, or because the news agency was complicit and never demanded "proof" that security was properly licensed etc.
Exactly. Put his head on a fckn spike. Along with every other commie trying to overthrow the governmentI can’t believe ANYONE on here would be defending this commie, filth, murderer. “Well, I don’t support what the Nazis are doing to the Jews, but not all Nazis are bad.” With months of insurrection, and 40 people confirmed murdered by ANTIFA it’s a little late to be able to say some stupid shit like that.
I get playing Devils Advocate, but this shit is a ridiculous reach. There is NOTHING there that in any way that resembles life or death till the murder.
That commentary reminds me of the Rodney King trial where the cops lawyers slowed down the beating and tried to claim that every time a pr24 fell that King moved and that constituted resisting arrest. Bullshit.
When I was a junior in HS a kid slapped me. He was flat on his back with a bloody nose before before either of us knew what happened. I just swung without thinking. I was already pissed, and did not expect to be slapped. Punched? Maybe, but the slap was more shocking. You only slap someone who is not a threat. This reminded me of that.
There you go, looks like he is using his arm in a defensive move as I suggested.
The more that comes out, the more this seems like the case. I would be willing to bet pics, texts, etc will emerge showing these two weren’t just professionally linked.Me thinks reporter and security guy are bros. Reporter been expensing security costs and hiring his bro. The news agency maybe didnt completely vet who reporter was hiring. Either because reporter lied about it, or because the news agency was complicit and never demanded "proof" that security was properly licensed etc.
They’re totally fucked. That family just acquired a Denver News station.It’s truly shocking to me that the news station isn’t trying to distance themselves from the shooter. It’s like their saying, “No, we’re liable here.”
Uhhmmm ok.
too late for voting. it just keeps the masses thinking that it actually matters.You want to win the day? Get out and vote. Get two friends to vote. Have them get two friends and so on.
If thats what you see.
Defensive or not, he put his hands on victim FIRST before victim pimp handed him. The slap was basically to say do not touch me.
Shooter was shocked that he got slapped. Probably humiliated in front of his bros and was pissed off. Being slapped like that you can see his manhood escaping his body. Shooters reaction rage.
He drew and fired although victim has already taken several steps back after creating separation with slap. Victim saw the drawn gun and tried to spray. Shooter head shot victim.
Look at shooters eyes. He was so out of it with rage, but he then realized what the fuck he just did. He also at that time probably realized he just really, really fucked up.
Yeah maybe and this case could go either way. I'm not arguing against you, and as I stated before I have no dog in this fight. I'm providing an objective couch-level detective analysis that will be used by the defense. This shooter is in friendly territory and will have big money backing him and buying the best legal defense that money can acquire. That defense team will likely argue -
- "hired security" guard doing the Lord's work of protecting the truth tellers (lying communist news hacks), was charged by angry 280 lb biker with bear spray and gun.
- Security guard puts hand up in a defensive posture to stop the charging bull
- Giant aggressive biker hits security guard, then steps back to spray
- Security guard is shaken and now "fears for his life", draws gun and defends his life and the truth teller warriors he's hired to protect
Dude, this is just how the defense will likely roll and the photos can support that story (true or not). Remember, as soon as the incident is over it gets turned over to the circus. This is entertainment, I'm not arguing that he wasn't reaching nor am I defending him I hope that's clear.
Dont really see victim "charging". He may have been approaching but charging sorta implies things, yeah?
Interesting prospect if he walks (especially in colorado). Takes things to level-3.
The fact he approached the shooter and he himself was armed will help the shooter's defense.We don't see him charging you are correct, that's the point. There is a gap in the evidence (so far) from him stepping away from video and the slap. The defense will use that gap to say he charged and attacked. As I stated, it's all a circus going forward and how hard lawyers can spin. Witnesses will be key in this. Maybe there is more video or pics to fill that gap. It's all a circus show now!
The photographer was ten feet from both of them. That series of stills shows definitively that Keltner was retreating when Dolloff murdered him.We don't see him charging you are correct, that's the point. There is a gap in the evidence (so far) from him stepping away from video and the slap. The defense will use that gap to say he charged and attacked. As I stated, it's all a circus going forward and how hard lawyers can spin. Witnesses will be key in this. Maybe there is more video or pics to fill that gap. It's all a circus show now!