Jack Hinson

[Sean the Nailer]

In these “Person Specific” threads, I am asking for a sharing of information regarding teachings, accomplishments, anecdotes, first-hand-experiences, and the like. Simply pertaining to the individual named in the title.

I intend for a separate thread for each separate person, and in no way is this to turn into anything other than respectful and pertinent statements and stories about the shooter. If you want to talk about someone not named in a thread, PM me and I’ll start another. At the same time, disparaging comments, wrong remarks and the like, WILL be removed.

This is intended to turn into a compendium of information of each marksman, because not everything is published, nor has everything been disclosed that has since been “unclassified”. Ya’ll know right from wrong, so let’s all make these threads GREAT.

If we are lucky, the possibility exists for “those who are still alive” to add in their two cents. THAT luxury is not afforded very often. Hence why I want this to be kept “on point”. Thank you.

 

[kraigWY]

Sorry, I misunderstood the post.

 

[kytrapper]

Not much of a comment on this extraordinary sniper, but I did make an observation and developed a big curiosity....,,

Has anyone ever came up with the twist rate or his bullet mold ? My thought is he maximized and improved on the .45 cal long range rifle of the day which were fast twist and shot long bullets.
To me, it appears he camouflaged his weapon by having it built to look like a common rifle. However, in the details provided it is a long range target rifle using the superior ballistics and terminal performance of the .50... The labeling of his bullet as a minnie ball seems to continue with his theme of hiding in plain sight. His accuracy and ranges are just not consistent with the ballistics of the minnie ball ...

I look forward to any thoughts or insights to this aspect.....

 

[SilentStalkr]

Not much of a comment on this extraordinary sniper, but I did make an observation and developed a big curiosity....,,

Has anyone ever came up with the twist rate or his bullet mold ? My thought is he maximized and improved on the .45 cal long range rifle of the day which were fast twist and shot long bullets.
To me, it appears he camouflaged his weapon by having it built to look like a common rifle. However, in the details provided it is a long range target rifle using the superior ballistics and terminal performance of the .50... The labeling of his bullet as a minnie ball seems to continue with his theme of hiding in plain sight. His accuracy and ranges are just not consistent with the ballistics of the minnie ball ...

I look forward to any thoughts or insights to this aspect.....

Just curious, have you read the book?

 

[kytrapper]

I did ... maybe to many of my thoughts not properly articulated is this post... just curious as to twist rate and actual bullet dimensions...... sorry if my ramblings confused that issue....

apologizes to all offended...

 

[SilentStalkr]

I did ... maybe to many of my thoughts not properly articulated is this post... just curious as to twist rate and actual bullet dimensions...... sorry if my ramblings confused that issue....

apologizes to all offended...

Nobody offended. I was just curious. I read it many times and I’m not sure that info is known. I also wondered how much of the book was glamorized a bit because some it seemed a bit over the top. Not saying impossible by any means but he was a hell of a shot with his knowledge and tools at hand, if the accounts are correct.

All I know is the stuff that you already stated. I can add a wee bit to it that I know. It’s a percussion cap, heavy 41 inch octagonal barreled rifle in .50 where he used minie ball.

As to the octagonal shape, it was based on the Whitworth Rifle. With its hexagonal barrel, it could supposedly shoot farther (up to 2,000 yards) and more accurately than the Pattern 1853 Enfield (1,400 yards) with its traditional round rifled barrel.

I’ve contemplated going to his hideout on the bluff. You can go visit it. And someone has his actual rifle.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Was going to put this in Vintage, but since Sean started this fine thread… I’ll post here.

Project that had been ‘in the works’ for about three years has started as of last week…

Took a while to accumulate the necessaries and get in a good barrel.

There have been a number of debates about Hinsons projectile and, no, his mold has not been found that I am awaren of. The book describes it as a minie and not as a Whitworth pattern hexagonal bolt. And having had his rifle made locally, I suspect it very unlikely that they used a Whitworth barrel. The Marine Col who wrote the book is a “gun guy” and did extensive research including examining the actual rifle. So the book is, so far, about as definitive a record as I have come across so far.

Been Hinson’s stomping ground, which is right around Fort Campbell. But not his grotto. Now the “Land between the Rivers” is the “Land between the Lakes”. So much of the real topography is lost to the TVA. Might try and get to his cave on a trip there this fall. Make an interesting get-together if anyone is in the area.

There is a monument, btw. I’ll dig out the picture we took there.

In the mean time… These kinds of build pictures will have to suffice until a range report comes in.

Cheers, Sirhr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Nobody offended. I was just curious. I read it many times and I’m not sure that info is known. I also wondered how much of the book was glamorized a bit because some it seemed a bit over the top. Not saying impossible by any means but he was a hell of a shot with his knowledge and tools at hand, if the accounts are correct.

All I know is the stuff that you already stated. I can add a wee bit to it that I know. It’s a percussion cap, heavy 41 inch octagonal barreled rifle in .50 where he used minie ball.

As to the octagonal shape, it was based on the Whitworth Rifle. With its hexagonal barrel, it could supposedly shoot farther (up to 2,000 yards) and more accurately than the Pattern 1853 Enfield (1,400 yards) with its traditional round rifled barrel.

I’ve contemplated going to his hideout on the bluff. You can go visit it. And someone has his actual rifle.

Hi Stalker…

Just FYI, the “octagonal” shape is the external barrel shape, not the bore. Whitworth used a Hexagonal bore and solid, paper patched “bolts” as they were called. Not bullets. Because of the design, which had no rifling to strip or foul, they could be launched at a much higher speed and twist rate than patched balls or Minies, which both had much smaller bearing surfaces on the projectile (in the case of the minie) or the patch, in the case of the ball.

Hinson is supposed to have used a form of minie, which had a hollow base to expand into the rifling. And a minie-type mold with a base plug as part of it. But… this remains conjecture.

An interesting historical research project… as most of the men he shot were, I wonder if any were autopsied or operated on. And whether a bullet or report of a bullet style was made in civil War medical records.

An interesting lead…. Sirhr

 

[SilentStalkr]

Hi Stalker…

Just FYI, the “octagonal” shape is the external barrel shape, not the bore. Whitworth used a Hexagonal bore and solid, paper patched “bolts” as they were called. Not bullets. Because of the design, which had no rifling to strip or foul, they could be launched at a much higher speed and twist rate than patched balls or Minies, which both had much smaller bearing surfaces on the projectile (in the case of the minie) or the patch, in the case of the ball.

Hinson is supposed to have used a form of minie, which had a hollow base to expand into the rifling. And a minie-type mold with a base plug as part of it. But… this remains conjecture.

An interesting historical research project… as most of the men he shot were, I wonder if any were autopsied or operated on. And whether a bullet or report of a bullet style was made in civil War medical records.

An interesting lead…. Sirhr

Correct sir. I was writing that in a hurry when I posted that and completely forgot about this thread! Looks like you got an awesome project going! If you go, let me know! I want to go to the cave!

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Correct sir. I was writing that in a hurry when I posted that and completely forgot about this thread! Looks like you got an awesome project going! If you go, let me know! I want to go to the cave!

Likely at the end of October. I'll have the rifle with me.

There is a lot of bloviating on some forums about how he shot from his cave... he was making 1000 yard shots... no way... the author is wrong, blah blah blah...

If one reads the text... he 'lived' in his cave... really a grotto. He had a lot of shooting points down nearer the river. My guess is that he was shooting at no more than 500 yards. Probably less if he had good 'hides picked out. And damn straight you know he had good 'hides! It's what we do. ;-)

As for the bloviating that you can't make 1000 yard muzzleloader shots... has anyone heard of Friendship, Indiana and the NMLRA long range shoots? Of Bisley in the UK where they had 1000 yard range? Sorry, but 'Minute of Union Officer' was not a small target. And noone counted his misses. Which probably weren't many. As the funnel that the steamships went through against the current meant they were barely moving.

My estimation is that his 'hides are all under water now in the lakes. But that back in the day, he hiked down the ridge lines from his cave to pretty close to shore and shot from the trees. Bolthole shooting long before it became the thing in the sandbox. Col. Kenney who wrote the book knew his stuff.

After thinking about the medical records side of things, I e-mailed a buddy at the new Museum of US Army and asked about records... officers medical records are detailed and well-preserved. If I can get the names of KIA or WIA along the Cumberland in 1864-1865... there may be a chance someone preserved some info... or even a sketch of a bullet or a description. It's a small chance. But historians have found more with less.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

From 2018 ish.

What Hinson would have done with a Mk 13!

Sirhr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Ed's comment on progress... "Buttstock is in the vice. Not buttstock is on the floor."

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Longshot231]

I am about halfway through the book on Hinson. So far the author doesn't go into enough detail for rifle aficionados on Hinson's rifle. What I read so far is that it would take a special kind of bullet not a round ball.

From other stuff that I've read, none of Hinson's other accessories remain; such as bullet mold, powder flask or even the bullets themselves.

I was trying to find something which would give us the exact bore diameter, type of rifling and twist rate.

The question as to whether he used a patched round ball or conical bullet can be answered if we know what the twist rate of the rifling is.

If he commissioned a rifle with a fast twist then he probably used a conical bullet.

Having cast lots of minie balls myself, I can tell you that it's difficult to get one that's perfect. Casting a conical bullet that I can wrap paper around is much easier. Besides the common method of paper patching back then was to use two strips of paper laid cross-wise over the muzzle. The bullet's base is pushed over the intersection of the paper strips and down the muzzle.

If he wanted to use a minie ball for a projectile, the 1858 Enfield rifle at that time with the Pritchard ammunition was very deadly. It would be far easier for him beg, borrow or steal an Enfield for his deadly target work.

IMHO, if he used a conical bullet it would have be one of the slug variety that was used in the long range target rifles at the time.

I may be wrong on some of this as I have not got past the part of the book where he is planning his revenge.

If I were wanting a rifle like him, so far I would also want a heavy one 17-18 pounds of the target variety. In that day, the slug guns were often a lot heavier almost twice as heavy but I still need to maneuver with it.

Additionally, if a search was made of my home then a 36 pound target rifle would be a dead giveaway and implicate me. So a compromise of weight needs to be made. Since I'm going to use my horse to transport me to the AO, a 17-18 pound rifles would not be a lot to carry unless I hiked long distances on foot.

The slug guns of the day, often used a false muzzle to load a paper patched bullet. Again, having a false-muzzled rifle could implicate me in my planned carnage. Besides it's not necessarily needed as I'm trying to hit a man-sized target out to 300 to 500 yards not the x-ring of a paper target. Hinson's rifle doesn't have a false muzzle.

Whatever technical knowledge that I am lacking on barrel twist and type of bullet a gunsmith could could have up for. I could probably buy almost any .50 caliber rifle with a slow twist rifling to shoot patched round balls but I want one that has a twist rate for conical bullets.

So far a .50 caliber muzzle loader that is a little on the heavy side but doesn't scream long-range-slug gun isn't going to attract a lot of attention or necessarily implicate me as long as I'm not caught with conical bullets. Regardless, I'm not planning on getting caught because, like Hinson, I would have known the terrain better than the Yankees and I pick the time, location and targets when it's advantageous to me. Never play another man's game and in his backyard.

The only way my theory holds any water is if Hinson's rifle has a fast twist rifling in it. Whoever produced the barrel at that time would know that in order for long heavy bullets to accurately hit the target, the rifling needs a fast twist.

If the rifle has a slow twist, then Hinson would have been using patched round balls. Are they capable of hitting a man sized target at 300 to 500 yards. Yes, but not as well as a good paper-patched slug.

I reserve to right to alter my theory after I finish the book or get more information

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I am about halfway through the book on Hinson. So far the author doesn't go into enough detail for rifle aficionados on Hinson's rifle. What I read so far is that it would take a special kind of bullet not a round ball.

From other stuff that I've read, none of Hinson's other accessories remain; such as bullet mold, powder flask or even the bullets themselves.

I was trying to find something which would give us the exact bore diameter, type of rifling and twist rate.

The question as to whether he used a patched round ball or conical bullet can be answered if we know what the twist rate of the rifling is.

If he commissioned a rifle with a fast twist then he probably used a conical bullet.

Having cast lots of minie balls myself, I can tell you that it's difficult to get one that's perfect. Casting a conical bullet that I can wrap paper around is much easier. Besides the common method of paper patching back then was to use two strips of paper laid cross-wise over the muzzle. The bullet's base is pushed over the intersection of the paper strips and down the muzzle.

If he wanted to use a minie ball for a projectile, the 1858 Enfield rifle at that time with the Pritchard ammunition was very deadly. It would be far easier for him beg, borrow or steal an Enfield for his deadly target work.

IMHO, if he used a conical bullet it would have be one of the slug variety that was used in the long range target rifles at the time.

I may be wrong on some of this as I have not got past the part of the book where he is planning his revenge.

If I were wanting a rifle like him, so far I would also want a heavy one 17-18 pounds of the target variety. In that day, the slug guns were often a lot heavier almost twice as heavy but I still need to maneuver with it.

Additionally, if a search was made of my home then a 36 pound target rifle would be a dead giveaway and implicate me. So a compromise of weight needs to be made. Since I'm going to use my horse to transport me to the AO, a 17-18 pound rifles would not be a lot to carry unless I hiked long distances on foot.

The slug guns of the day, often used a false muzzle to load a paper patched bullet. Again, having a false-muzzled rifle could implicate me in my planned carnage. Besides it's not necessarily needed as I'm trying to hit a man-sized target out to 300 to 500 yards not the x-ring of a paper target. Hinson's rifle doesn't have a false muzzle.

Whatever technical knowledge that I am lacking on barrel twist and type of bullet a gunsmith could could have up for. I could probably buy almost any .50 caliber rifle with a slow twist rifling to shoot patched round balls but I want one that has a twist rate for conical bullets.

So far a .50 caliber muzzle loader that is a little on the heavy side but doesn't scream long-range-slug gun isn't going to attract a lot of attention or necessarily implicate me as long as I'm not caught with conical bullets. Regardless, I'm not planning on getting caught because, like Hinson, I would have known the terrain better than the Yankees and I pick the time, location and targets when it's advantageous to me. Never play another man's game and in his backyard.

The only way my theory holds any water is if Hinson's rifle has a fast twist rifling in it. Whoever produced the barrel at that time would know that in order for long heavy bullets to accurately hit the target, the rifling needs a fast twist.

If the rifle has a slow twist, then Hinson would have been using patched round balls. Are they capable of hitting a man sized target at 300 to 500 yards. Yes, but not as well as a good paper-patched slug.

I reserve to right to alter my theory after I finish the book or get more information

I have some inquires out about the twist rate... But no idea if I'll get a response.

The book does have some detail... coming up if you are half way through. It is definitely a .50 cal. And the book says he used Minie projectiles. But supposedly, no mold or accoutrements remain.

I also have inquiries out to try and locate medical records of officers who were killed or wounded. Two step process. Maybe three. Find the names of the officers killed wounded in 1864 in the Cumberland. Then find medical records. Find out if any mention a bullet, minie or ball. Or if someone went so far as to sketch or save a projectile. Longshot, for sure! But historians have found more with less.

I wish I could get the contact info for the author.... Kenney. No website, e-mail or contact I can find. His bibliography is excellent and I'd love to pick up with a couple of the research tracks he started.

More as things get found...

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[SilentStalkr]

@sirhrmechanic see if you can get in touch with the editor at Guns and Ammo. I’m pretty sure they did an article years ago and might have some contact info. I’ll ask around as well and see what I can come up with.

 

[SilentStalkr]

@sirhrmechanic im about to message you. I put some feelers out and already got some info on how to contact Mr. McKinney.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

So here's a question...

Is the movie Shenandoah (Jimmy Stewart) based on Hinson's story... long before anyone had really heard of Jack Hinson?

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[jbell]

Great book and great story. I have read it several times.

 

[Jim Out]

So here's a question...

Is the movie Shenandoah (Jimmy Stewart) based on Hinson's story... long before anyone had really heard of Jack Hinson?

Cheers,

Sirhr

I have to compliment you on your project.

Just looking at the shaved wood on the floor reminds me "we stand on the shoulders of those who came before us."

I hope to find a copy of the book, just to confirm:

Jack Hinson's One-Man War​

by Tom McKenney
Lt. Col. Tom C. McKenney, USMC retired, is a graduate of the University of Kentucky and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

 

[SilentStalkr]

I have to compliment you on your project.

Just looking at the shaved wood on the floor reminds me "we stand on the shoulders of those who came before us."

I hope to find a copy of the book, just to confirm:

Jack Hinson's One-Man War​

by Tom McKenney
Lt. Col. Tom C. McKenney, USMC retired, is a graduate of the University of Kentucky and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

That’s it.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

As I start to research bullet designs, I came across this interesting reference in an arcane bullet/cartridge reference from the 1990s.

note the elongated shape and relatively small bore of the “Tennessee” style of Minie.

verrrrryyy Interesting!

Hey @Sean the Nailer any objection to moving this into Vintage? There is a good possibility of more input and traction there?

Sirhr

 

[hankpac]

Royce, Ben, and I near Dover TN. All members of Tiger Force, 1/327 IN, 101st Airborne. Ben lived about 10 miles from this site, before he passed a couple of years ago.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Progress!

rifle with barrel rough fitted in Vice. Not rifle on the floor. Cheers!

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I pick it up Wednesday... I am beyond excited!

Sirhr

 

[FatBoy]

The fiddle in that stock looks beautiful completely dry. It’s going to be amazing.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

The fiddle in that stock looks beautiful completely dry. It’s going to be amazing.

Ed told me it is one of the most beautiful pieces of wood he has worked with. Spent a 'long' time trying to find a piece thick enough to accommodate the barrel!

I pick up tomorrow. Going to be a long day!

Sirhr

 

[FatBoy]

Ed told me it is one of the most beautiful pieces of wood he has worked with. Spent a 'long' time trying to find a piece thick enough to accommodate the barrel!

I pick up tomorrow. Going to be a long day!

Sirhr

What’s you plan for finishing the wood? Going to try period correct, modern chemicals or a combo?

 

[pmclaine]

Another thread right up @Bigfatcock s specialty lane.

You two would make a cute couple.

 

[Bigfatcock]

Aqua fortis reagent will give you the old timey color.

 

[pmclaine]

Please don't do the burnt in tiger stripes some tards do.

 

[Bigfatcock]

Please don't do the burnt in tiger stripes some tards do.

What else are you supposed to do with the Walmart wood burner? I think a krylon job would be the best choice here!

The aqua fortis reagent darkens the maple and highlights the grain very nicely. Gives maple a beautiful brownish red that is very hard to replicate with dyes or stains. Very traditional coloring as well.

 

[pmclaine]

What else are you supposed to do with the Walmart wood burner? I think a krylon job would be the best choice here!

The aqua fortis reagent darkens the maple and highlights the grain very nicely. Gives maple a beautiful brownish red that is very hard to replicate with dyes or stains. Very traditional coloring as well.

Aqua Fortis is legit.

Some interesting conversations regarding this stuff...

making aqua fortis

making aqua fortis

americanlongrifles.org

Aqua Fortis for figured maple

A while ago, this thread piqued my curiosity: http://www.tdpri.com/forum/finely-finished/499015-my-aqua-fortis-build.html I loved how the rifle stocks looked, so set about trying aqua fortis out myself. I looked at buying it pre made, but found making it myself was easy (and cheaper). I...

www.tdpri.com

Pretty sure @sirhrmechanic has access to iron chips and will do amazing things on this sweet project.

While visiting Gettysburg the displayed heavy bore "snipers' caught my attention for sure...

Not a Gettysburg rifle but a "Snipershider" before Al Gore invented the internet.....

R R MOORE No.1097 Heavy Barrel Percussion Target Rifle wt Stevens #770 Scope, Starter False Muzzle & Starter 45 Cal

R R MOORE No.1097 Heavy Barrel Percussion Target Rifle wt Stevens #770 Scope, Starter False Muzzle & Starter 45 Calfor sale online.

www.gunsinternational.com

 

[SilentStalkr]

Can’t wait to see pics of this. Was this a personal project or for someone else?

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Can’t wait to see pics of this. Was this a personal project or for someone else?

The gun is for me... it's being made by Ed Parry of @Blackhartlongarms.com from Connecticut.

Ed is the absolute master of the long gun. He has built several guns for me... I almost always have 'something' stewing with him.

I have had no part in building it except in the detailed research and historical stuff. Feeding Ed everything from close-up photos of the original to the ballistic info that we know so that we can replicate the rifle exactly.

Ed is a retired Navy Chief -- submariner. He was a machinists rating and built his first long rifles on cruises during the cold war. He is an absolutely awesome dude. If you ever wanted a custom-made long rifle for... whatever... hunting, target shooting, primative biathlon, collecting... even if you have something need restoration... Ed's your man!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Longshot231]

The gun is for me... it's being made by Ed Parry of @Blackhartlongarms.com from Connecticut.

Ed is the absolute master of the long gun. He has built several guns for me... I almost always have 'something' stewing with him.

I have had no part in building it except in the detailed research and historical stuff. Feeding Ed everything from close-up photos of the original to the ballistic info that we know so that we can replicate the rifle exactly.

Ed is a retired Navy Chief -- submariner. He was a machinists rating and built his first long rifles on cruises during the cold war. He is an absolutely awesome dude. If you ever wanted a custom-made long rifle for... whatever... hunting, target shooting, primative biathlon, collecting... even if you have something need restoration... Ed's your man!

Cheers,

Sirhr

What twist is the rifling in the barrel?

 

[sirhrmechanic]

What twist is the rifling in the barrel?

1:24 Rice barrel

Sirhr

 

[Longshot231]

1:24 Rice barrel

Sirhr

That’s fast. Can you share any information on the type of minie ball you’ll be shooting?

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Look at post 21 bullets 63A and B. Tennessee minie. Working on design now with Brooks molds...

I am going to probably get to measure the original in October (noone has ever done that yet, so I understand...) so I may end up ordering a new barrel if we find something radically different. Right now, we' picked the twist based on the old Lyman BP reloading manual which says 22 - 24 for a conical bullet. Most BP's are 1:48 because they assume the shooter might be shooting round ball AND minie or a sabot. So they compromise. A round ball will stabilize with as little as 1:60" twist. But a minie will work best much faster... And I won't be shooting patched round ball out of it at all, so there is no point in even worrying about a compromise twist.

This should give about 1.5 spins in the barrel length... 41" It's all experimental at this point... But we did a fair bit of research on the twist and talked to the barrel maker to decide on this. So I am in comfortable territory.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

BTW, I came across this a while ago.... it's called Greenhills formula.

150 x diameter squared divided by bullet length = required spin

Example for a .45 caliber bullet .60 inches long:

150 x .45 x .45 divided by .60 = 50.6 inches

So, for the example bullet, a spin rate of 1:50.6 or faster is required

The formula also provides maximum bullet length which can be stabilized by a given barrel twist. The formula becomes:

150 x diameter squared divided by twist rate

Example for a .50 caliber barrel of 1:48 twist:

150 x .50 x .50 divided by 48 = .78 inches

The barrel will stabilize a bullet .78 inches long, or shorter.

It's an interesting 'old timey' formula but those old timey gunmakers knew what they were doing!

Here's an interesting article on Greenhills in modern practice with BPCR rifles: https://www.blackpowdercartridge.com/greenhill-with-a-twist

Note that the author talks about a slightly harder alloy. The old US Ballistics book I bought down in Gettysburg a couple of weeks ago talks about 1:30 alloys for Minies. Which is pretty interesting because most folks assume basically pure lead until you get into hardcasting for modern firearms. But US army 'specs for Minie's c. Civil War period was a 1:30 tin content. Again... something learned new just a couple of weeks ago.

Wonder how Greenhill applies to modern smokeless copper jacketed or solid rounds... there have to be some formulas for modern boolits... I just never looked into it.

This is one of the things I love about shooting sports... so many layers to the onion. And if one digs, one finds many have been peeled back generations ago... by the guys who evolved these rifles over 300 years. Of course, if they didn't improve the breed, they died in combat or getting mauled by bears... or starved because their rifles could not hit minute of deer and go 'bang' when called upon!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Also learned that minies and balls used by military were not cast. They were stamped. Big flywheel presses that took lead bar and punched it to shape and punched in the rear cavity. The bullets dropped out with a line around them that was shaved off before rolling into a cartridge. First by hand and later by machine.

Almost nobody cast bullets in the civil war, unless you were irregulars or shooting special rifles or your own “skwerl rifle” which was certainly more probable with CSA forces.

Even Whitworth “bullets” (technically bolts) were imported from England where they were die pressed. I assumed they were cast, but not according to war dept records.

This project has been a major learning rabbit hole. The best kind!!

Sirhr

 

[Bigfatcock]

1:30 is good stuff as is 1:20 tin:lead. Great fill out, which is what you’ll need for crisp bullets.

30:1 and 20:1 are still very soft compared to modern cast bullets with antimony in them.

good obturation with the hollow base. IIRC Lyman made a minie mold, but .58 caliber. NEI ( under Walt) made them, as do others.

Brooks molds are works of art and I own several. Other good mould makers are NOE and Accurate moulds.

Depending on what weight and length you go with, I’d recommend a Rowell ladle and ladle pour. I get better results on the heavies that way.

 

[07SGT4623]

Great read thanks for sharing

 

[Bigfatcock]

Also learned that minies and balls used by military were not cast. They were stamped. Big flywheel presses that took lead bar and punched it to shape and punched in the rear cavity. The bullets dropped out with a line around them that was shaved off before rolling into a cartridge. First by hand and later by machine.

Almost nobody cast bullets in the civil war, unless you were irregulars or shooting special rifles or your own “skwerl rifle” which was certainly more probable with CSA forces.

Even Whitworth “bullets” (technically bolts) were imported from England where they were die pressed. I assumed they were cast, but not according to war dept records.

This project has been a major learning rabbit hole. The best kind!!

Sirhr

Corbin makes swage dies, just takes forever to get them. Easier to cast them for yourself when not supplying an army, lol.

However, the military did cast bullets, and used gang molds. I’m not saying the military cast all of their bullets, but they did cast.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Corbin makes swage dies, just takes forever to get them. Easier to cast them for yourself when not supplying an army, lol.

However, the military did cast bullets, and used gang molds.

Generally casting was done before the civil war. Revolutionary war and war of 1812… right into Mexican war. But apparently the invention of bullet stamping presses made casting mostly obsolete. But Inhad thought they were cast until I was reading the Ord. Dept info.

That said, I bet that the CSA did casting. IIRC the book said that only two presses were in a southern armories at the outset of the war. But they bought a lot of bullets from England which was selling cash and carry and trading for cotton, desperately needed to keep its mills running. That said… two presses and a blockade meant that casting was almost certainly a necessity

looking for a picture of a press now.

BTW, I can make my own swaging dies… in fact I have a lot of them. 7/8” bolt drilled and then case hardened in Kasenit. ThePin honed to within a tenth… works wonders!

Sirhr

 

[Bigfatcock]

Generally casting was done before the civil war. Revolutionary war and war of 1812… right into Mexican war. But apparently the invention of bullet stamping presses made casting mostly obsolete. But Inhad thought they were cast until I was reading the Ord. Dept info.

That said, I bet that the CSA did casting. IIRC the book said that only two presses were in a southern armories at the outset of the war. But they bought a lot of bullets from England which was selling cash and carry and trading for cotton, desperately needed to keep its mills running. That said… two presses and a blockade meant that casting was almost certainly a necessity

looking for a picture of a press now.

BTW, I can make my own swaging dies… in fact I have a lot of them. 7/8” bolt drilled and then case hardened in Kasenit. ThePin honed to within a tenth… works wonders!

Sirhr

Lucky! Can’t wait to see this project done and shooting!

 

[pmclaine]

Generally casting was done before the civil war. Revolutionary war and war of 1812… right into Mexican war. But apparently the invention of bullet stamping presses made casting mostly obsolete. But Inhad thought they were cast until I was reading the Ord. Dept info.

That said, I bet that the CSA did casting. IIRC the book said that only two presses were in a southern armories at the outset of the war. But they bought a lot of bullets from England which was selling cash and carry and trading for cotton, desperately needed to keep its mills running. That said… two presses and a blockade meant that casting was almost certainly a necessity

looking for a picture of a press now.

BTW, I can make my own swaging dies… in fact I have a lot of them. 7/8” bolt drilled and then case hardened in Kasenit. ThePin honed to within a tenth… works wonders!

Sirhr

As "starved" as the Revolutionaries were at the early part of the war for powder and projectiles Im guessing ammo was a most important investment for our early Republic.

Amazing how razor thin the margin was of the Revolution succeeding at the start due the want of powder and shot.

Meanwhile I'm going to rain 9mm from my S1050 like hail falling in the Midwest.....

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Check this out! From Woolrich Arsenal, UK.


Also the Richmond Arsenal had a minie stamping press for the Gardner rifles. And I think there was one at Tredegar. I have seen some .57 bullets from Macon Arsenal, and they look cast. To BFC’s point above.

but here is a Minie press.

Cheers, Sirhr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

At the beginning of the Revolutionary War, the patriots tore down a statue of King George in New York City. Back then statues were lead, not bronze for ease of casting and because you needed to keep changing kings. Would not do to have your statue be all “three kings ago…”.

They took the lead to Connecticut and it is in revolutionary war documents that the statue produced 42,088 cast lead musket balls for the Colonial Army.

History Daily

historydaily.org

Cool story… there are pieces at the new Museum of the Revolution in Philly. A very worthy museum to visit!!!

Cheers, Sirh

 

[SilentStalkr]

I can’t wait to see this thing!

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Teaser