Well what ever you are doing is working wellYes, most of our barrels are produced in-house.
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Well what ever you are doing is working wellYes, most of our barrels are produced in-house.
Presuming these were tested with all the standard NATO rounds. Is there any particular (standard) loads they shoot best suppressed/not suppressed?Hey, this is Jack at KAC.
If anybody wants to ask about the KS-1, and is still actually reading this thread, I'll answer what I can.
And before it tangents again:
Yeah, the M110 had plenty of opportunities for improvement, which we've been doing in the nearly 2 decades since the contract was awarded. We're literally 2 generations past the M110 on everything at this point, from rifles to suppressors. Yes, I agree that people chasing down exact M110 clones is silly, and you're going to wind up paying way more than they're worth. Even personally I'd much rather have a Mk 11 Mod 0 than an M110 SASS.
Will you be running this gun at the quantified performance finale?Yes, most of our barrels are produced in-house.
Thanks for chiming in! I got a question: What factors have to be considered when designing a dimpled barrel if the goal is longevity and accuracy? What are the tradeoffs with the KS1 vs if it had a non-dimpled barrel?The KS-1 uses our "intermediate" port location.
It is indeed the shortest barrel with that port location.
The combination of the Pressure Reduction Technology (PRT) suppressor, the Mod 2 gas system, and the E3.2 bolt, makes the rifle run nearly identically whether suppressed or unsuppressed. If a traditional (high backpressure) suppressor is used rather than a low/no backpressure suppressor the E3.2 bolt still does a very good job of getting the fired case out of the gun fast enough to maintain reliability.
Separate upper receivers are planned to be available.
There is virtually no difference in suppressed/unsuppressed with all ammunition tested.Presuming these were tested with all the standard NATO rounds. Is there any particular (standard) loads they shoot best suppressed/not suppressed?
What a great question!Will you be running this gun at the quantified performance finale?
A central requirement of Project Hunter was minimal shift following extended duration firing. We initially used a thin profile barrel, virtually identical to our 14.5" barrel, and while it met the requirement the follow-up was "can it be better?". The answer was yes, but that would require additional thermal mass in the barrel, which means more steel and weight. The ball mill dimpling process has been done here at KAC for around 15 years, with the primary purpose being weight reduction without shift as the barrel heats up.Thanks for chiming in! I got a question: What factors have to be considered when designing a dimpled barrel if the goal is longevity and accuracy? What are the tradeoffs with the KS1 vs if it had a non-dimpled barrel?
The first time I'd seen a dimpled barrel was on a joint project that Knight's did with Nighthawk a long time ago (I think you all called it golfball texturing or something).
Also, I saw some "DIY" dimpling at a factory tour where the warranty department replaced the barrels on a large frame after the owner "ruined" the rifles performance by dimpling the barrels (the actual work looked very clean and well executed to my untrained eye).
Do you have a picture of the KS1 barrel without the rail/handguard?A central requirement of Project Hunter was minimal shift following extended duration firing. We initially used a thin profile barrel, virtually identical to our 14.5" barrel, and while it met the requirement the follow-up was "can it be better?". The answer was yes, but that would require additional thermal mass in the barrel, which means more steel and weight. The ball mill dimpling process has been done here at KAC for around 15 years, with the primary purpose being weight reduction without shift as the barrel heats up.
The increased surface area will contribute to faster cooling, but it's not really a significant change as the surface area increase isn't really that drastic.
I have seen some barrels that were dimpled outside of the factory that did have their performance degraded, but a lot of those were our thinner profile barrels that really should not have been dimpled to start with.
Don't have any barrel pics image hosted for sharing on forum formats, sorry.Do you have a picture of the KS1 barrel without the rail/handguard?
And is it a .750 gas block??
You can upload pics straight to this site if you have them.. don't have to use a hosting service..Don't have any barrel pics image hosted for sharing on forum formats, sorry.
It does use a .750 journal, with our Mod 2 gas system.
I went back through what I have for pictures and we don't really have just the barrel. Is there something specific that you're curious about?You can upload pics straight to this site if you have them.. don't have to use a hosting service..
Just wanted to see what the barrel contour looked like..I went back through what I have for pictures and we don't really have just the barrel. Is there something specific that you're curious about?
It's basically a straight 0.98 from the barrel extension to the gas block.Just wanted to see what the barrel contour looked like..
A central requirement of Project Hunter was minimal shift following extended duration firing. We initially used a thin profile barrel, virtually identical to our 14.5" barrel, and while it met the requirement the follow-up was "can it be better?". The answer was yes, but that would require additional thermal mass in the barrel, which means more steel and weight. The ball mill dimpling process has been done here at KAC for around 15 years, with the primary purpose being weight reduction without shift as the barrel heats up.
The increased surface area will contribute to faster cooling, but it's not really a significant change as the surface area increase isn't really that drastic.
I have seen some barrels that were dimpled outside of the factory that did have their performance degraded, but a lot of those were our thinner profile barrels that really should not have been dimpled to start with.
Thanks for explaining. Makes a lot of sense to me now.It's basically a straight 0.98 from the barrel extension to the gas block.
People who say this kind of shit don't know the history of the platform, what was arround, how it evolved and how we got to where we are today. Its pure ignoranceThats spot on. I actually dont get the hype there is for the m110s and older sr25s. They were probably better than everything else at the time but theyre junk compared to a new one
I now understand why so many people have you on ignore. Its almost like you repeated exactly what i said and added some random bs in. Sure the m110 has history and was the best of its time but its a relic now. New sr25s out perform them. Also im sure you know exactly how knights runs, what works for them, what theyre intentions are. Since you know exactly how they could be doing better, why not make them a offer they cant refuse and buy them the fuck out. Btw high secondary market prices doesnt line their pockets, just the person who bought it at the standard pricePeople who say this kind of shit don't know the history of the platform, what was arround, how it evolved and how we got to where we are today. Its pure ignorance
Many of the standard features on quality AR's today are the results of KAC and Stoner collaboration, not to mention KAC R&D over the last 30 years.
They are the tip of the spear, and the platform was developed with assistance from the tip of the spear in the .mil.
The M110 shit is well documented, hard to blame KAC for idiot army officers.
The older SR-25 and MK11 blew away everything else out there. Comparing a gun from 20 years ago to modern AR's that have the befit of companies like KAC putting Millions into R&D to come up with more refinements is intellectually dishonest.
Anyone who has been to the KAC compound can quickly understand. That place is more like a college than a factory. Its massive.
KAC's problem has always been production. I don't get it, they need to put out 10 times as many rifles and cans as they do. The demand is there, they have the infrastructure to do it. They have skilled workforce in that area (its near cape Canaveral with all the NASA contractors) Yet shit just trickles out and prices get insane due to supply/demand. Maybe Reed and Trey are more concerned with growing the tank collection (one of the biggest private tank collections in the world) than building more guns.
I am not being difficult when I ask this, what have they done in terms of innovation that has trickled down to other ARs over the last thirty years?Many of the standard features on quality AR's today are the results of KAC and Stoner collaboration, not to mention KAC R&D over the last 30 years.
Not who you asked, but there certainly have been a lot of Sand Cutter carrier copycats suddenly made by reputable manufacturers in the last few months.I am not being difficult when I ask this, what have they done in terms of innovation that has trickled down to other ARs over the last thirty years?
You are still off base.I now understand why so many people have you on ignore. Its almost like you repeated exactly what i said and added some random bs in. Sure the m110 has history and was the best of its time but its a relic now. New sr25s out perform them. Also im sure you know exactly how knights runs, what works for them, what theyre intentions are. Since you know exactly how they could be doing better, why not make them a offer they cant refuse and buy them the fuck out. Btw high secondary market prices doesnt line their pockets, just the person who bought it at the standard price
Just off the top of my head:I am not being difficult when I ask this, what have they done in terms of innovation that has trickled down to other ARs over the last thirty years?
wipe your lips pleasePeople who say this kind of shit don't know the history of the platform, what was arround, how it evolved and how we got to where we are today. Its pure ignorance
Many of the standard features on quality AR's today are the results of KAC and Stoner collaboration, not to mention KAC R&D over the last 30 years.
They are the tip of the spear, and the platform was developed with assistance from the tip of the spear in the .mil.
The M110 shit is well documented, hard to blame KAC for idiot army officers.
The older SR-25 and MK11 blew away everything else out there. Comparing a gun from 20 years ago to modern AR's that have the befit of companies like KAC putting Millions into R&D to come up with more refinements is intellectually dishonest.
Anyone who has been to the KAC compound can quickly understand. That place is more like a college than a factory. Its massive.
KAC's problem has always been production. I don't get it, they need to put out 10 times as many rifles and cans as they do. The demand is there, they have the infrastructure to do it. They have skilled workforce in that area (its near cape Canaveral with all the NASA contractors) Yet shit just trickles out and prices get insane due to supply/demand. Maybe Reed and Trey are more concerned with growing the tank collection (one of the biggest private tank collections in the world) than building more guns.
true that, he's 'that guy' and self professed know it all. I usually ignore him, glad to see I'm not aloneI now understand why so many people have you on ignore. Its almost like you repeated exactly what i said and added some random bs in. Sure the m110 has history and was the best of its time but its a relic now. New sr25s out perform them. Also im sure you know exactly how knights runs, what works for them, what theyre intentions are. Since you know exactly how they could be doing better, why not make them a offer they cant refuse and buy them the fuck out. Btw high secondary market prices doesnt line their pockets, just the person who bought it at the standard price
Sorry your mom is a squirterwipe your lips please
Everything I will say below is only a historical context, not to be misconstrued as a KAC fanboy. It’s just what happened chronologically to the best of my memory having lived through it all:I am not being difficult when I ask this, what have they done in terms of innovation that has trickled down to other ARs over the last thirty years?
Man you guys
Are you implying some people might be like Eggnog ans Zit from the Hitch movie?
Disgusting ...
I didn’t gender anybody pal….you fixing to be cancelled with that shit.
It's the internet man, I get it. Makes it hard to have a discussion though, so I just wait to hear from the people that actually want to talk about a subject and interact at that point.Man you guys get a KAC rep online to speak with and you whip out your dicks and smash them flat with a hammer.
Unsure if he could have spoke freely without upsetting the .gov customers but would have been good to hear some of the “what we wanted to do” over the “what we were asked to do”
I have a couple questions about the SR25s if you dont mind. How are the new kac brakes doing compared to the old MAMS devices? Will a heavy profile dimpled barrel be making a return to future sr25s in 308?
First, thank you for your expertise contributing to the Hide.Happy to discuss whatever questions you might have.
There is a guy on the site here @TheGerman says there is no difference between an Olympic and a KAC.It's the internet man, I get it. Makes it hard to have a discussion though, so I just wait to hear from the people that actually want to talk about a subject and interact at that point.
Happy to discuss whatever questions you might have.
Excellent info! One last question: why did kac go away from dimples in the first place? Was it a contract requirement? Thanks again for answering our questions and being so straight forward!The "new" open/2-port brakes have shown to out-perform the MAMS, though the MAMS does have slightly more recoil reduction and slightly less flash. Their advantage is that they do show overall better dispersion than the MAMS, and cost significantly less, while being a good suppressor mount.
Dimpled barrels will be returning to the line, much like the 22" 6.5 Creedmoor uppers and the small release of 14.5" 6.5 Creedmoor uppers that went out earlier this year.
Did you shoot it unsuppressed?First, thank you for your expertise contributing to the Hide.
It seems almost impossible to find relevant longer down range target information on the KAC SBR's to judge whether the rifle-operator is
getting the factory expectations from the platform.
I have this SR-25 ACC 14.5" with minor modifications. A few 600 meter target photos.
Did KAC expect a better target impact @ this range?
Thanks.
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Dimpled barrels are cool, but they introduce risks and variables. Components used in model lines are based on application. Sometimes a dimpled barrel makes sense, sometimes it doesn't.Excellent info! One last question: why did kac go away from dimples in the first place? Was it a contract requirement? Thanks again for answering our questions and being so straight forward!
Marvin is licensed to use the KAC dimpling pattern/process. He was an employee of KAC, not a supplier to.Ribbed... for his pleasure.
JK. Jack can correct me if I am wrong but it was a combo of athstetics with the early limited edition guns like the costa/Wilson guns and a way to take some weight out of the barrel while keeping the barrel stiff.
I believe Marvin Pitts would also do ( one of the og kac vendors) the ball milling for guys trying to build clones/replicas.
My pants are M81 Woodland. U 'mirin?The only reason they carry the cost that they do is so posers like you can put on your camouflage pants on the weekend and go to your local range and hope someone will mistake you for a badass.
Thanks for the clarification Jack.
I always assumed if there was some kind of performance increase, they would have become a standard feature on most of the later SR15/16's and SR25's. Also if an agency wanted them, they could spec it in the contract?
So the dimpling/ball mill cuts are patented/protected? Always wondered why we didn't see other manufactures do it. Seems like a pretty easy and strait forward machining process.
Our product line is directly reflective of current programs, with production oriented to meeting those commitments before anything else. Right now, we are at 16" for 6mm ARC. Between us girls, I'd rather have a 16" 6.5 Creedmoor than an 18" 6mm ARC, but I do understand the interest.Hey Jack does the company expect to make a longer barreled 6arc?
Let Trey know we all want a semi version of this that accepts a DIAS:Our product line is directly reflective of current programs, with production oriented to meeting those commitments before anything else. Right now, we are at 16" for 6mm ARC. Between us girls, I'd rather have a 16" 6.5 Creedmoor than an 18" 6mm ARC, but I do understand the interest.
lol, that's not a thing. But I appreciate your enthusiasm.Let Trey know we all want a semi version of this that accepts a DIAS:
I have not done so yet. I have scoured the internet and have yet to find target examples beyond 200 meter for 14.5" ACC.Did you shoot it unsuppressed?