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Rifle Scopes Kahles 3.5-18 SKMR3 initial impressions
- Thread starter 7WSMShooter
- Start date
You better pre order one...before GUNGASM NOLEGS and BALLISTIC1 buy it all lol
Got three weeks left of this master's program and if it's still available i might do it. How long does it last? That would hinder me building the 7 SS for sure, but if i'm being frank i'd like to have the SKMR3 on both my rifles. Plus what's 5oz?
I’ll be curious what you think of the K624i CA, the AMG was quite a bit better in this department but Kahles May have a slight edge in color and resolution. If the K525i has solved the CA issue that will definitely get my attention as I loved the ergo and mechanics of the K624i, but with the new scope being shorter, I’m a sucker for short scopes. However, the 28oz of the AMG is hard to overlook even though the Kahles is only a few ounces more, tough one for sure for someone trying to decide today
I'm interested to see it for myself as well. I haven't noticed any using them but again the one time i had extended use with one it was very cloudy. The AMG is honestly the better route for the money but should my match rifle ever go down and i need to use the Bighorn i want the SKMR3 reticle. The EBR7B is almost perfect but those large horizontal hashes i could see getting on my nerves where as the minimalistic design of the SKMR3 i adore. Picky i guess, AMG does have locking turrets and weight in it's favor. If i do go with the K525i which as of right now i'm planning on it, the K624i will be put on the bighorn. Interested to see if 7WSM is able to note any CA in the K318i given it's the little brother to the K525i least in glass as i understand it.
It’s a compromise and not even a bad one considering the AMG has over 27 mils of claimed adjustment. That’s how you lose nearly a half pound over similar range scopes.
I hear ya, Shannon Kaye is brilliant and maybe more brilliant was a scope manufacturer listening to a skilled shooter and changing the way mil reticles are designed. I doubt he was the first but the SKMR has caused other manufacturers to take notice, now we have quite a few .2 mil hash options and center dot options. One thing to note, if you really love the SKMR3 you ought to check out the MR4, I'd call it the SKMR3e (enhanced) where for me personally I find the slightly thicker stadia, center dot and hash marks to perform better in more conditions, and for the Christmas tree they use dots instead of solid lines which are usable when needed but not too obtrusive when not needed. The one thing that concerns me slightly with Kahles and Minox is that neither of them have service facilities in the USA which means if the scope needs repair it has to be shipped back to Germany/Austria which can take a while. This is also why ZCO has my attention with the 5-27 and 4-20 Ultra Short, but things have been quiet on the ZCO front as everyone is waiting anxiously for a unit to get into someone's hands for review, we're also still waiting on pricing and if ZCO comes in much more than Kahles it could potentially hurt their sales, but if glass is as good as ZCO is alluding to (Tangent Theta good?) and price is close to Kahles then they could really shake up the industry.
The K318i being an Ultra Short design I would expect to struggle a bit more in the CA area so I don't think the CA performance would be indicative of how the K525i will perform; however, if Kahles has improved CA in the K318i design over the K624i design, then I think it would be safe to say we'll see the same or better from the K525i.
I've looked hard at the minox and do love the MR4, though i feel like i would like the Kahles turrets more at least regarding the way the hashmarks line up to the scope body. I've never been a big fan of turret indicators being on the scope body. Just seems less precise (i know it's not) and i can never get them to line up, even if they do that void just kind of drives me insane. I know the hashes are on the body on the Kahles too but idk why i think i'd like the turret more. Though the MR4 certainly seems like a natural evolution of the SKMR3.
The warranty does concern me but the little digging i've done on Kahles seems they back their product. I think it was a thread on here that a guy had a 10 year old scope or something like that they ended up completely replacing for him. Speaking of which our Zeiss V6 is currently in germany, so we're getting our first taste of that. Definitely food for thought as the ZP5 is cheaper even before hide pricing.
I would hold out for ZCO as i do have faith in Jeff and Nick but there is always a bit of a worry being an early adopter of a new product. That and the wait as we have no release date. I'd like to preferably have it by August though i guess it doesn't matter as i wont get to shoot till December once Dental School starts.
wjm308 said:
It should struggle with CA compared to the 5-25, though my train of thought was that if it was indeed better than the 624i or near the AMG that the 525 was sure to have none.
Guys, do not assume that a shorter design will necessarily struggle with CA. It is more work to correct for CA and other aberrations with shorter designs, but it is not impossible.
In this price range, I expect to see CA well controlled regardless of how long or short the scope is.
ILya
In this price range, I expect to see CA well controlled regardless of how long or short the scope is.
ILya
From my limited time with the 6-24 Kahles I would still say that the 3-18 does in fact control
CA better. The AMG still controls it better and with the Minox ZP5 I couldn't see any.with that being said, That's just from my experience with 1 6-24 Kahles, 1 AMG, 1 Minox, and the 2 3-18s. So not a large enough group by far to say X scope is better than y at anything. But enough to get an idea.
CA better. The AMG still controls it better and with the Minox ZP5 I couldn't see any.with that being said, That's just from my experience with 1 6-24 Kahles, 1 AMG, 1 Minox, and the 2 3-18s. So not a large enough group by far to say X scope is better than y at anything. But enough to get an idea.
Not large enough is subjective, that is an impressive lineup of scopes nonetheless. There can be sample variance and diopter variance and other factors that might affect CA. It sounds like you've been impressed with your limited time with the two K318i's so far which is good news, it shows the potential that Kahles addressed this issue in their new 5x erector formula's which is great news for those bothered by CA. I just ordered the K318i's little brother, the Leupold Mark 5 3.6-18x44 and am really curious to see how the latest from Leupold performs. I also have a ZCO ZC420 on order and am anxious to get my hands on that one.
Is the glass prescription in the k525 going to be different that what's being offered in the k318? I have heard in a video somewhere it mentioned new updated coatings in the k525 video but not as of yet in any k318 vid..
I don't think any official word has been given; however, given the fact that the K318i and K525i share an entirely different optical formula than anything Kahles has produced before and since their history has shown that K624i Gen II and Gen III had upgrades then is it safe to assume the 2018 K's also have upgraded coatings, etc. from what they've had before. Now that Jeff Huber no longer works with Kahles, I'm not sure who the USA point person is who might have this information. Kahles has always been lacking in decent marketing material and their press release on the K318i simply states:
Very good point. 18 is a nice sweet spot but some times just a little more is needed for scanning that tree line at sunset.I'm trying to convince myself that 18x is all I need at the top end.... I want this scope!
If the resolution is there (which it sounds like it is) then I doubt there will be much of a deficit, certainly not between 18-20x, I think you'd have to step up to 24/25x to gain a distinct advantage, but in so doing you lose out at the bottom end if you need the FOV.
Well they make a sunshade...too bad it doesn't come with one
that's kind of irritating. Least give me some Tenebrex covers..lolNotice it's the K318i on that Origin.
Well they make a sunshade...too bad it doesn't come with one
Notice it's the K318i on that Origin.
Thanks for the vid... Man I'm struggling right now deciding between one of those new Kahles in 5-25 or a new ZCO...
We have a few unsold K318i's that will be here Tuesday, some of our customer's got first dibs before we have ours coming to the shop
If your going in go all the way. The Kahles line is freaking excellent. Mike at cstactical steered me towards the 624i and it is top shelve. My application is. 1. hunting in low light conditions. 2. The range shooting out to 800m. But part of my brain kept coming back to that nagging question I could not shake. Is this TT brand all its cranked up to be? Yes guys it really is. I love my Kahles but my next optic will be the TT 5 X 25 P.
This is a vendor rich environment.
Think for yourself
Orkin showed me the proof. The TT 3x15m was my tipping point.
This is a vendor rich environment.
Think for yourself
Orkin showed me the proof. The TT 3x15m was my tipping point.
I think we all know how established TT is, noone is questioning that. I'm not sure how a comparison between the K624i and TT is relevant to the topic at hand. We're curious about the performance of the new K318i and K525i and how it compares to Minox, TT, ZCO, S&B, etc.
True: Guess I have just reached the point of no longer searching for the next best thing. This rabbit hole has no end.
Got to look at one today. Liked everything but the 16 mil turrets. That was a step in the wrong direction but can't make everybody happy I guess.
I really don't understand this complaint granted i get it it's personal preference but i've always had unconventional amounts for a revolution on the scopes i've shot and it just never really struck me as an issue. SN-3 is 9 mils i believe per rotation, MK5 was 10.5, K624i is 14, etc. Though less you're referencing click spacing, then i somewhat share your sentiment.
Having said that did you get to take it outside view any targets? Put side to side against something else comparable? Note any CA? (One of my main concerns)
The clicks were definitely tight and hash marks on the turret are a little closer together and harder to read. 16 mil turrets just seem like something for an ELR rig. I wouldnt ever be much past half a rev. myself. Just seems like they should have spread it out a little for the size of scope it is but thats just my opinion.
I just spent a few minutes with it indoors. I'm looking forward to spending some time at the range with it next to my k624i.
I just spent a few minutes with it indoors. I'm looking forward to spending some time at the range with it next to my k624i.
Aren't the K318i and K525i turrets the same, from a manufacturing perspective there would be cost benefits to using the same turret design for both scopes. Just thinking that might be why Kahles went in this direction with the K318i.
Worked with the Kahles 3-18 today and the Minox. I didn't have the correct height rings
For the AMG for the rifle I was putting in on,
So had to order another set.
As far as the spacing goes on the elevation
Adjustments on the Kahles 3-18, I like them.
Based on the diameter on the elevation knob,
I didn't find them to be too close. I think if it was around 14-15 mils for this diameter they would feel perfect. But this would certainly not deter me from buying the scope. Ran the Minox on 18x side by side with the Kahles to compare the two as best I could, and today I could barely see or make out any CA at all on the Kahles. For what tracking
I did get to test today, which was not as much as I wanted, it tracked true. The quality of everything you touch and see on this scope Is a step above
Most everything out there.
If you need a shorter scope or if 18X is all you need on the high end I don't see how one could
Be disappointed with the Kahles 3-18. As long as it keeps tracking true and stands up to the abuse
That this clumsy oaf is sure to put it through, I will
Keep one of these in the stable. I'm really interested now in the 5-25 and getting one of those to run a true apples to apples comparison
With the Minox ZP5.
The only complaints I can come up with for this so far is that it doesn't come with scope caps
And I think the parallax ring should require just a little less effort to turn. It's not terrible, it's not bad, I would just prefer it to turn a little easier.
That's honestly the only things I can find fault with. Oh yeah, I wish they were priced at half of what they are so I could get more ?
For the AMG for the rifle I was putting in on,
So had to order another set.
As far as the spacing goes on the elevation
Adjustments on the Kahles 3-18, I like them.
Based on the diameter on the elevation knob,
I didn't find them to be too close. I think if it was around 14-15 mils for this diameter they would feel perfect. But this would certainly not deter me from buying the scope. Ran the Minox on 18x side by side with the Kahles to compare the two as best I could, and today I could barely see or make out any CA at all on the Kahles. For what tracking
I did get to test today, which was not as much as I wanted, it tracked true. The quality of everything you touch and see on this scope Is a step above
Most everything out there.
If you need a shorter scope or if 18X is all you need on the high end I don't see how one could
Be disappointed with the Kahles 3-18. As long as it keeps tracking true and stands up to the abuse
That this clumsy oaf is sure to put it through, I will
Keep one of these in the stable. I'm really interested now in the 5-25 and getting one of those to run a true apples to apples comparison
With the Minox ZP5.
The only complaints I can come up with for this so far is that it doesn't come with scope caps
And I think the parallax ring should require just a little less effort to turn. It's not terrible, it's not bad, I would just prefer it to turn a little easier.
That's honestly the only things I can find fault with. Oh yeah, I wish they were priced at half of what they are so I could get more ?
From what I have read the 5-25 model will come with flip up caps, a kill flash and sunshade. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/03/09/new-kahles-k525i-5-25x56i-high-end-rifle-scope/
I like what I'm hearing from you on the new Kahles, I'm considering the new K525i as well, also the new ZCO... Reading this makes the decision that much tougher...
Had no prob with it being finicky or not having the ability to resolve targets. Was just a bit stiff.
That's all.
That's all.
Gotta chance to look through the 3-18 on Saturday, and while much improved, the CA is there (no surprise) but better controlled. @NoLegs24 spent more time behind it than I did, and could comment in greater detail, but all-in-all, it was a nice piece of glass. The only time the CA was obvious (to me), was when staring at a bright white steel target against a dark background. In field conditions (minus snow), I think this scope would be a great piece of equipment.
Kahles listed the same items for the K318i and I think it was misconstrued to be "included" vs. available accessories, meaning they can be purchased separately.
Our shipment of them just came in late tonight, wow I'm impressed with them!
Our shipment of them just came in late tonight, wow I'm impressed with them!
Have you heard anything about when you'll receive the k525i?
I've waited to get my second example of a 318 to comment, and it showed up last week.
The glass is very, very, very good. CA is much better (didn't bother me much in the 624 anyway) but without losing the color and "pop" that we all think of when we think Kahles. If you must absolutely have zero CA, then you still need to seek out a more flat color spectrum. But even a discerning eye would not be disappointed with the CA control in these new 318's.
If you are used to the 14mil turret then you might find the 16mil turret a little finicky. I did. Mount it up and start using it, by the end of the day you've forgotten it bothered you.
If they can maintain or, or even improve the glass quality in the 525 then it will be the scope to beat this year.
The glass is very, very, very good. CA is much better (didn't bother me much in the 624 anyway) but without losing the color and "pop" that we all think of when we think Kahles. If you must absolutely have zero CA, then you still need to seek out a more flat color spectrum. But even a discerning eye would not be disappointed with the CA control in these new 318's.
If you are used to the 14mil turret then you might find the 16mil turret a little finicky. I did. Mount it up and start using it, by the end of the day you've forgotten it bothered you.
If they can maintain or, or even improve the glass quality in the 525 then it will be the scope to beat this year.
This is good to hear. I still haven't gotten to look at my K624i i have a week until i can get home to really see how prevalent the CA is. I know it's there just looking at objects around my apartment complex. If the k624i is equivalent to the MK5 i sold i'd be pretty happy because the resolution and contrast are pretty ridiculous on the Kahles.
Mike is heading out on the range again today, I'll see if he can list his impressions up later tonight or tomorrow.
I got to look through a K624, K318, and AMG outside, side by side, for about 30mins at a LGS. I was looking at vehicles and a water tower from 400-500 yards. I set all three parallax’s to 400yards and magnification to 14.
The K318 clarity and resolution were better than the others, as expected, as I though the K624 was ever so slightly better than the AMG. The CA was better managed by the K318 that the K624, almost non existent, I had to look really hard to find it. The AMG still controls CA the best.
Things I noticed that are worth mentioning. The k318 has stiffer adjustments, I suspect this is due to the 16mils per turn versus the 14mils on the k624. IMHO the k624 turrets are the best I have ever felt. I understand the twist guard and it works, but I would prefer a locking or original turret over the twist guard. It just feels gimicky. Although the K624 and K318 are almost identical in weight. The k318 feels heavier and less balanced since it is shorter.
I am really pleased with the k318 and I will be buying a k525.
The K318 clarity and resolution were better than the others, as expected, as I though the K624 was ever so slightly better than the AMG. The CA was better managed by the K318 that the K624, almost non existent, I had to look really hard to find it. The AMG still controls CA the best.
Things I noticed that are worth mentioning. The k318 has stiffer adjustments, I suspect this is due to the 16mils per turn versus the 14mils on the k624. IMHO the k624 turrets are the best I have ever felt. I understand the twist guard and it works, but I would prefer a locking or original turret over the twist guard. It just feels gimicky. Although the K624 and K318 are almost identical in weight. The k318 feels heavier and less balanced since it is shorter.
I am really pleased with the k318 and I will be buying a k525.
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I just received one for T&E today.
First impressions are good. The turret is nice, easy to see, and the clicks are crisp.
I put it on my tack driving GA Precision Surgeon 591 in 6 Creed. I only had time to get my zero, confirm groups, and check adjustments out to 500 meters. So far, so good. I'll take it out in the field tomorrow for a good run.
It's doing the Pepsi Challenge against my proven 4-16X50 S&B PMII....The K318 has it's work cut out ...
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