Fair enough - it doesn't explicitly use the word "mount".
But isn't that implied? It's not a DT without a DT mount. I'm not sure what else they meant to communicate/imply with their messaging.
KGM R6... False advertising?
- Thread starter jzerfoss
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Fair enough - it doesn't explicitly use the word "mount".
But isn't that implied? It's not a DT without a DT mount. I'm not sure what else they meant to communicate/imply with their messaging.
No one advertises the weight with a mount. Why would they, it would be heavier than others when compared to say a manufacturer that doesn’t include that weight. If it were me (and I have 3 KGm’s) I would look for words like 7.9 ounces (including KGM direct thread mount). As a consumer without those clear words I’m assuming it’s just the silencer.
Yeah, I dunno.
First off I'll state that I personally wouldn't care if it was 2 ozs off - that's just me, I wouldn't even bother weighing it.
But, I can see how one would infer that the suppressor weights 7.9 ozs with mount - it seems clear to me that's what they are implying. They don't specifically use the word "mount", to your point. But I also don't know how the suppressor is a DT without said mount. I can only interpret their communication on weight in one way - and I agree with the OP on that. KGM should've just made it clear that the weight is suppressor only, especially if that's what everyone else does.
Anyways, my interest in the topic is waning. I can see all sides of the issue, KGM could certainly be a lot more clear in this specific regard. Good luck to the OP in getting the resolution you seek.
I agree with everything you said. I weigh them to track carbon. I never look at what the manufacturer states as weight.
Did you reach out to KGM to tell them what's wrong, both so that they can correct the mistake and so they can have a chance to square up with you?
I don't think 2oz on a suppressor is going to make any functional difference, but if people are going out of their way to buy this suppressor over other options because of the weight, then KGM is making money on something that is untrue. The whole point of weight not being the primary objective of a suppressor aside, people do hold it in a high ranking sometimes.
I don't think 2oz on a suppressor is going to make any functional difference, but if people are going out of their way to buy this suppressor over other options because of the weight, then KGM is making money on something that is untrue. The whole point of weight not being the primary objective of a suppressor aside, people do hold it in a high ranking sometimes.
KGM doesn't even seem to be focused on the private consumer market.
Personally, in the future I would give my money to companies that focus on the precision rifle market and care about their consumers.
It sounds like the conversation was pretty casual and that you might not have really conveyed what you are thinking. We're all here talking in an internet forum about the company. Did you tell them flat out that you felt this was false advertising (intentionally or unintentionally) and that you feel wronged in your purchase?
I was talking with someone last weekend who has been all over KGMs manufacturing facility including the areas setup for "certain manufactures", and highly doubt they would hurt them considering oem is their bread and butter.
Most likely DA speced something , it was built as designed and turns out it needed more engineering. That's 100% on DA.
If the op doesn't like his can I will give you $400 for it. Let's get the paperwork started.
1. I guess it depends on person and usage, but specifically, more than 2oz. I could hand you 2 identical rifles, 1 with a brand new R6 and the other with 2oz of carbon added, and I guarantee it would be nothing more than a guess as to which was heavier.
Shit, I could probably hand you a brand new R6 by itself and then 1 with 2oz of carbon added and you’d probably have a hard time deciphering which is which. In a 10lb system you’re talking about 20% of 6%… that’s the literal definition of inconsequential.
If concerning yourself about that small of a discrepancy vs. the ‘spec sheet’ is worth your time and energy, that’s your prerogative. Sure as shit is not mine. I’m just telling you it doesn’t make a shit’s worth of difference in actual usage.
2. I think we’re arguing the same point… Adding any weight to the muzzle can change harmonics, POI, etc, but we’re not adding any weight… the weight is already there, so nothing changes. You’re going to work up a load and zero all the same for the falsely advertised ‘R6+’ just as if it were 2oz lighter.
I was just thinking of ridiculous ways to “justify” how 2oz could actually make a difference… because it doesn’t.
Bottom line is I stir shit in pots when it’s worth stirring... nerds concerned about a ~1% discrepancy in a 10lb system are worth it.
Actually it’s not.
But feel free to indulge yourself with as much or as little feedback in this thread - you were the one that posted it.
Also, as others have said, KGM gives zero fucks about your feedback… as they shouldn’t.
Maybe his is heavier because of all the blast media KGM leaves in them like those fuckers left in mine after they took 6 months to fix their fuck up. Took hours to completely strip my rifles and clean all the tiny media out of them and my three cans.
Honestly that company can get fucked as far as I’m concerned.
Over 20% difference in weight you think would be hard to detect?
His can is 25+% heavier than advertised. I don't see any problem being upset about it. He could have got a quieter 10-11oz can than the R6.
People will spend hundreds of dollars on hunting rifles to swap some parts out with aluminum or ti to save a couple-few ounces. If I made a purchase and weight was a deciding factor I'd be pissed as well.
Clearly it looks like KGM put the weight without the mount on their site. Looking on their site, I don't see where they say a mount is included. I would agree that they should list a weight with what is required to shoot the suppressor. If there are multiple options for mounting they should list the weight of the suppressor without a mount in stalled and the weight of some of the optional mounting systems including any mounting systems the suppressor ships with.
kgm-tech.com
If they have it listed with a mount in other places, I'd like to think that it is an honest mistake and not intentionally false advertising as stated above.
Last I heard, KGM shut off civilian sales. They are only selling to government contracts.
My advice to the OP is go and shoot it. You've probably waited nearly a year for the paperwork to come back. Go enjoy the suppressor you have waited for. I've heard great things about their suppressors and I know quite a few people are really bummed that they are no longer selling to civilians.
If 2 ounces is a deal breaker, go back to whomever you purchased it from and ask if they will allow you to return it.
R6 Update – KGM Technologies
kgm-tech.com
If they have it listed with a mount in other places, I'd like to think that it is an honest mistake and not intentionally false advertising as stated above.
Last I heard, KGM shut off civilian sales. They are only selling to government contracts.
My advice to the OP is go and shoot it. You've probably waited nearly a year for the paperwork to come back. Go enjoy the suppressor you have waited for. I've heard great things about their suppressors and I know quite a few people are really bummed that they are no longer selling to civilians.
If 2 ounces is a deal breaker, go back to whomever you purchased it from and ask if they will allow you to return it.
The screen shot I posted is from the link you posted. Hit the specs link. It clearly says (WITH direct thread) after weight and length.Clearly it looks like KGM put the weight without the mount on their site. Looking on their site, I don't see where they say a mount is included. I would agree that they should list a weight with what is required to shoot the suppressor. If there are multiple options for mounting they should list the weight of the suppressor without a mount in stalled and the weight of some of the optional mounting systems including any mounting systems the suppressor ships with.
R6 Update – KGM Technologies
If they have it listed with a mount in other places, I'd like to think that it is an honest mistake and not intentionally false advertising as stated above.
Last I heard, KGM shut off civilian sales. They are only selling to government contracts.
My advice to the OP is go and shoot it. You've probably waited nearly a year for the paperwork to come back. Go enjoy the suppressor you have waited for. I've heard great things about their suppressors and I know quite a few people are really bummed that they are no longer selling to civilians.
If 2 ounces is a deal breaker, go back to whomever you purchased it from and ask if they will allow you to return it.
Also, as I've already said my main reason was to let other people know. Hard to believe it's an honest mistake when everyone of their advertisements over the years list the same specs.
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Didn't see the link for the spec at first.
That indeed does say it includes a direct mount.
If the suppressor weighs 7.9 oz without the mount, I'd be inclined to believe that it was a mistake on their end.
What do you want at this point?
KGM isn't selling to civilians any longer. They probably don't care much for the civi market at this point.
If 2 oz is a deal breaker, ask to take it back. See if you can get a credit for your tax stamp. If it's not a deal breaker, I'd ask KGM to correct their website and go shoot the suppressor that you've waited for.
That's been said already
I also addressed this earlier and edited the post replying to you.
I'll make this clear. I don't want free shit, I don't want a refund, I don't want anything from KGM other than to honor their warranty should I need it. I simply wanted to make others aware and to point out that (unless their marketing and company communication is blatantly incompetent) the specifications error seems to be intentional to make it seem more competitive in it's class of suppressor.
I dont understand how a person could cry and lose so much sleep over 2oz. Just shoot the damn thing and move on. People like to get hung up on small shit. People like this would drown in a glass of water.
I doubt anyone else gives a shit but thanks for the public announcement
I sometimes forget how many knuckle draggers roam SH... I'll try to explain to the simpletons but I'm sure anything more than microwave instructions will be too complicated for most of you to understand.
As far as the "2oz" goes there is a major difference between application and advertising. In application 2 oz would be hardly noticeable in most circumstances. I can agree with that.
In advertising it makes a difference in choosing a new suppressor. So in my specific circumstance I was looking at multiple suppressors. The main 2 were the Ecco Accipiter Ti and the R6 for a lightweight AR.
The Accipiter is 7.5 oz without a mount(as advertised). The R6 is advertised as 7.9 oz with the direct thread. Again I will agree 2oz might not very noticeable but since they are similar in price and most mounts are around 2 oz or more I figured why not try KGM and get the "lighter" can. If not for KGMs false advertising I would have more than likely gone with the Ecco. Essentially KGMs false advertising stole a sale from Ecco machine. I don't know about most of you buy I'd rather send my money to a honest company. Lesson learned.
If the "It's only 2 oz blah blah blah crowd" can't understand why that's a problem I can't help you.
The “2 oz blah blah blah crowd “ understands you better than you will ever grasp Karen.
Now up to the gym, I’ve to develop some more muscle to be able to carry my R6 around when it comes out of jail one of these days.
Now up to the gym, I’ve to develop some more muscle to be able to carry my R6 around when it comes out of jail one of these days.
Why hit the gym when you can just cut the end off. Hell I bet you can find 3 or 4 oz of weight savings.
Careful there now…. Only a Karen would threaten to cut off my precious
Be sure to remove all the APEC screws too. I’m sure that’s fucking with your weight calculations.
While I seriously doubt it had anything to do with this thread they did fix their advertising on their site. R6 isn't offered anymore but the R30, R30k, and R65k specs are now "w/o mount". Good on them for making the correction.
Are they selling in the civilian market again? Sorry, I have not kept up. I bought three when they started clearancing to get out of direct non-government sales.
When you Karen so hard that a company corrects information on a product they won’t sell to you anyway…
That said, 4 oz hamburger patties are bullshit. 1/4 lb or nothing…
And, don’t bring any of that 1/3 lb patties bs in here. I know 4 is bigger than 3.
That said, 4 oz hamburger patties are bullshit. 1/4 lb or nothing…
And, don’t bring any of that 1/3 lb patties bs in here. I know 4 is bigger than 3.
Yes, they're back selling to pretty much anyone. I've gotten 4 in the last three months.
Thanks - their web site is up and running. I just dd not know if it was old and not updated.
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