Knight's Armament SR25 vs LMT 308

[lennyo3034]

Sure, the key is to use quality components from reliable companies and get a good smith (or again yourself if you are capable which money on this forum are) to build it. While certainly not limited to something like the following, this would be a rifle which would exemplify the traits I've stated ITT:

**Upper**

- Barrel: Proof Research 20in 6.5CM with +2 gas system $829. Or you can have your smith spin up any number of high quality blanks (Bartlien, Krieger, Rock Creek Cut, etc) and use a JP barrel extension, and of course match the bolt.

- Upper: 2a Armament Xanthos $325 (includes lower below). Obviously you'd thermalfit whichever barrel/extension you went with.

- Port Door: V7 lightweight $37.

- Handguard: 2a Armament Xanthos XRVC 15in $264. Or insert your favorite DPMS high handguard here, MI, Odinworks, etc.

- Gas Block: Superlative Arms .875 (or whatever you cut the barrel to, the linked barrel needs .875) clamp on AGB (or SLR if SA is out of stock) $90. Loctited, or set-screw dimple if you want to go that far.

- Bolt Carrier Group: JP High Pressure Enhanced Bolt assembly group $213 + JP Low Mass .308 carrier $267. Can probably find both on sale elsewhere for cheaper. Now this is key, since the bolt and barrel aren't matched (assuming buying linked barrel) the thing to do is to buy the bolt first, and send it in to whomever you get the barrel from to make sure it is matched to the chamber.

- Gas Tube: Comes with barrel. If not using a +2 then the V7 Inconel gas tubes for ~$60.

- Charging Handle: PRI Gas Buster $80, or a BCM if you prefer $50. Radian and Noveske also make nice ones in this price range, but I haven't tested them myself.

- Muzzle Device: Place holder is a V7 titanium 5/8x24 brake, but really whatever suppressor floats your boat. If I were buying today I'd get a Q Trash Panda (instead of my current Omega although the Omega is great).

**Lower**

- Lower Receiver: 2a Armament Xanthos $325 (included above).

- Small Parts: This is where you can save some money by just buying a CMMG or, Aero AR10./308 LPK without the trigger or grip for around $40. But if you want to go all out and save a bit more weight/add a bit more durability you can just get all the V7 titanium shit: V7 Takedown pins $35. V7 Bolt Catch $27. V7 Ambi Safety $59. V7 TI End plate+Castle Nut $59. V7 Buffer retainer $7. V7 TI Grip screw $7. V7 mag catch/release $46. Finished off with a few extra springs.

- Trigger: Hiperfire Eclipse $199, or insert your favorite trigger here.

- Buffer Tube: V7 2055 $79.

- Buffer Weight+Spring: JP SCS Gen 2 $130.

- Stock: Luth-AR Carbine Stock $115.

- Grip: I'm a huge fan of the Hogue 15 degree $17, but there are a ton of great ones out there like the BCM or similar grip $19 (personal preference part).


Total for just the rifle is between $2800-3300 depending on options chosen and it should weight a little under 7lbs. Just to restate what I've already had to say too many times, sending this off to ADCO, Compass Lake Engineering, Whoever Proof Research recommends work on their barrels, Craddock Precision, River's Bend Gun Co, MSTN rifles, and Patriot Valley Arms would net the desired result.

So please Primus, tell me why all of these high quality components from excellent companies put together by an expert smith fails to live up to my claims. Tell me how a JP bolt matched to a JP barrel extension with a JP SCS and an adjustable gas block is somehow going to be less reliable than a JP. Please tell my why Padom can make .75moa AR10s for $1000 at home, but we are all too dumb? Tell me why CLE uses the DPMS standard parts and turns out reliable hammers, but somehow couldn't do it with the above parts?

I prefer to build my own, and I do not hesitate to spend as much on a home build as a high end rifle would cost.

That being said, a large shop can do things a home builder can't. For example, you mention the thermal fit. If for whatever reason the fit between an upper and barrel extension is loose, the large shop can always mix and match parts to get a better fit. A larger extension, or possibly even go machine an extension to that looser upper. A home builder in that scenario is SOL. This happened to me when I ordered a MATEN with the hopes of a tight fit. Unfortunately mine is on the looser side of things and there's nothing I can do about it except bed the extension.

I still prefer to build my own, but a manufacturer has more capabilities than a home builder.

 

[shane45]

I would find it hard to believe there is a more well made AR10 out there than an LMT MWS. I have played with Knights rifles and while they're nice I don't think they warrant the price tag. The monolithic upper is priceless when it comes to utilizing a rail mounted rangefinder (or standard laser) as your deflection is very minimal compared to a 2-piece upper when applying pressure

Also--everyone needs to remember that the MWS by default ships with a Chrome Lined barrel. Not SS. So when a Larue or Knights shoots better out of the box that's no shocker. The 18 or 20" SS LMT barrels would be a much more realistic reference.

The MWS was built as a withstand all abuse battle rifle with the ability to almost instantly change roles by way of a barrel swap.

Too heavy? It's like a 1.2lb difference to a E2. After you add your MLOK attachments to your wingy dingy slim rail probably a 1lb difference.

That's one tub of fucking butter.

Oh and FWIW I'd never trust my life to a "build rifle." Ever.

My KAC has a chromed lined barrel too. But it is considerably more accurate than my MWS was. I find changing optics more conducive to a role change then the barrel. 1.2 pounds is considerable. Forget the humping it all over creation part, just in a course of fire it matters. Im 6'2" 255lbs so its not like Im struggling with it but I like my rifle as close to 8lbs as possible because I can perform better longer.

 

[Crosshairs6]

FWIW.. After retiring from the Marine Corps in 2004, I went to a Sniper School (DDM Course) for a PSC and we used DPMS Panther rifles and they did not have KAC SR25 rifles for training. Once I deployed down-range, we were issued the SR25 MK11 Mod 0.
At the course, 11 of the 20 DPMS Rifles have SIGNIFICANT wear grooves in the upper receiver caused by the bolt cam pin riding along next to the track for the charging handle. I'm talking about shavings left in the receiver. This was my first experience with DPMS. The quality control was terrible to say the least.
As I mentioned, I was issued an SR25 after deploying down-range. Night and day. The rifles in the armory were worn to say the least but were still a lot better rifle than the DPMS which was close to new (less than 1000 rounds in the gun-book). I carried an SR25 for 4 years. Other than the Leupold scope, I had no issues. The turrets in the Leupold wear out too quickly and fail to index like I think most people want is why I mention it.
Obviously, this information is dated but the experience stayed with me regardless.
I have friends with AR10's and the fit and finish of the guns leave something to be desired. These Friends, whom I trust implicitly state the AR10's also seem to have malfunctions more often depending on ammunition used.
What one person finds important may not be important to someone else. Personally, I do not classify a "Sniper" rifle as one with a collapsible stock. I prefer a "Sniper" rifle to be rigid. I bought an SR25 after returning stateside in 2011 based on my experiences. I put a Nightforce 4-16X scope instead of a Leupold. I never regretted the purchase.
Regardless, Individuals have to be confident in their weapons they carry no matter what the brand. Everyone has their own experiences. Personal choice is what makes America great. What you spend on that weapon is secondary as long as you are confident and proficient in your choice.

 

[Primus]

And the truth is, the M110 was the shittiest gun KAC ever sold to the gov. It was built to the army's spec against the advice of KAC. KAC tried numerous PIPs to fix the DoDs stupid, and we're turned down. The mk11'was a better gun and pretty much every other non army spec m110 is a better designed rifle. I say this because even their worst gun( and let's be honest, the m110 had alot more potential than executed) is still in he top 3 of combat semi sws. Their best guns we're commercial releases which is great for you and me.

 

[longshot2000]

Shane, nice barrel ball-dimples.

 

[DavidAR10]

Or simply explaining a complex situation to someone who refuses to even do basic research and background is a collosal waste of my time and effort. You are not intellectually honest and are expecting to be spoon fed knowledge that has taken people years and decades to EARN. Even then you will most likely reply with something such as "xyz is just as good or reliable or durable and Billy Bob the forklift driver can build the same thing for half the price" or other such ignorant response. There is a reason less then a handful of large frame AR builders are used in harm's way. There is a reason why people pay more money for what you percieve as being no different because you fail to understand the subtlety and synergy of componets in the platform. If you are being honest with yourself, go learn and then report back.

Just askin', sir.

Who/Whom beat KAC (and the rest) as the best rifle in trials BUTT!!! lost the contract for the M110
due to cost increases to the weapon system to cover expenses to meet the production plant security
requirements per DOD Code WTF?

I remember: ARMALITE.

 

[DavidAR10]

And the truth is, the M110 was the shittiest gun KAC ever sold to the gov. It was built to the army's spec against the advice of KAC. KAC tried numerous PIPs to fix the DoDs stupid, and we're turned down. The mk11'was a better gun and pretty much every other non army spec m110 is a better designed rifle. I say this because even their worst gun( and let's be honest, the m110 had alot more potential than executed) is still in he top 3 of combat semi sws. Their best guns we're commercial releases which is great for you and me.

da-da-damn, now you made be step back and kinda like your style of sharing the facts:

 

[longshot2000]

My KAC has a chromed lined barrel too. But it is considerably more accurate than my MWS was. I find changing optics more conducive to a role change then the barrel. 1.2 pounds is considerable. Forget the humping it all over creation part, just in a course of fire it matters. Im 6'2" 255lbs so its not like Im struggling with it but I like my rifle as close to 8lbs as possible because I can perform better longer.

LMT and KAC do, in fact build a lot of parts for each other. The MWS and SR25 are pretty interchangable, and they make each others' bolts and carriers Side by side, they look alike. I cannot say for sure they are the same, but probably are.

Out of curiosity, which KAC rifle has a chrome-lined bore? I know the Mk11 and M110 did not have chrome-lining. The MWS, as deployed by the UK snipers, as the L129A1 had a 16" SS barrel.

I think I have stated on other threads, these are both very, very good rifles. I have both, and the both shoot very good. I also very much like the LaRue OBR in 7.62. I have heard a few snipers tell me that they were not that fond of the M110, but for snipers, it is tough to accept a gas gun. I am personally looking forward to some of the CSASS versions, like the HK and perhaps a USMC SASS that might feature a Geissele or LaRue gun...

 

[Primus]

Any thing with the name precision generally has a cut rifle barrel vs chrome lined. Their website lists it, but older no longer made versions you will have to dig a bit.

 

[BarrettBoy]

On paper, the LMT and its huge slew of ar10 design upgrades make it very attractive.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

AFAIK several of the various SR25 models KAC has done recently have cut rifled chrome lined barrels. Ive never seen any other manufacturer use such, and have been a bit puzzled by it personally. What are they doing? Getting Obermeyers and then having em chrome lined? Im think this calls for a email to KAC.. will report back if I get a answer.
See here:
https://www.knightarmco.com/4707/shop/commercial-firearms/sr-25-e2-cc-2

 

[RickyRodney]

They should change the LMT "MWS" to "HAB" for heavy as balls. It probably performs like a champ but after holding one, I doubt I'd want to hump that thing up and down mountains all day.

 

[elfster1234]

I had a LMT MWS with a 20” chrome lined barrel and it was the most accurate 308 I’ve ever owned and averaged 6x5’s in the .7’s

 

[elfster1234]

I’ve kicked around the idea of getting another LMT soooooo many times. Barrel swap and monolithic upper is awesome. Heavy tho with a scope but I bench shoot anyway,,,,,,,,, like 80% of the other people here lol

 

[elfster1234]

Took a solid 300 rounds for my cl LMT barrel to settle down

 

[sgj2025]

I have a kac ecc. Very nice rifle. Is it worth the money? I don't know but it's cool as fuck. Accuracy wise it's a solid 1.25 rifle. Some bigger and some smaller. The Indian driving the bow could be a lot better. Had a 2009 pof 308 with a rock creek barrel that I would say would hold just as good groups for a third of the price. I shoot and like to collect nice rifles. None are safe queens, and none are abused but what's the point of buying something you don't shoot. Back to the subject, I do not regret the kac purchase and it will stay in the collection.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

I had a LMT MWS with a 20” chrome lined barrel and it was the most accurate 308 I’ve ever owned and averaged 6x5’s in the .7’s

Interesting. Pretty sure LMT button rifles their own standard CL barrels.. any clue where they source the cut rifled blanks they use? Ive heard KAC and LMT have some type of relationship in which they use the same components in certain regards..

 

[jevan126]

Just so you get all your facts right, JP Rifles have been proven to be just as reliable as any other rifle when it come to combat. Archway Defense took a JP-15 basic build an torture tested it and it came through with flying colors and this was a plain Jane basic rifle. So to say that JP Rifles are only gaming rifles means you don't know what you're talking about, if that was the case then why would Military & Law enforcement use them in real world situations. Just sayin

 

[shane45]

So your submitting that a private training companies position on a rifle in 5.56 from a company they claim to be partnered with (JP Rifles) on their website as clear and concise evidence that the 7.62 version is every bit as rugged and combat worthy as others? Let me be clear that I am not taking anything away from JP rifles but I find your reasoning, logic and conclusion of defacto proof.......lacking in substance.

 

[Jcgodfrey]

I’ve owned a larue Tobr, kac emc, kac Delta EMC, kac ecc, POF, LMT lm8mws, and a GAP-10.

Most accurate - tobr by a hair. Shot 5 round groups you could cover with a dime. It was heavy with the PRS stock/NF atacr.

Delta EMC - shot tits on, sub 1/2” groups when I did my part. MUCH lighter than the tobr. Ran it with 2.5-10x32 nxs. Ran flawlessly. Ambi controls. It was “perfect”.

Ecc - haven’t even shot it yet. The URX 3.1 is nicer than the quad rail of the EMC in my opinion.

POF - accurate but constant fail to feed. Piece of crap rifle IMO. Wouldn’t buy another.

Lmt - heavy. Didn’t balance well. Sold it. That being said, if those aren’t high on your priority list, then buy the lmt. IMO, it’s 80-90% of a kac and can easily be had under $2300 slightly used. Battle tested. Legit system.

Gap-10 - beastly. Accurate, IMO didn’t have much else going for it. I liked it but I prefer my 308 SA’s to be lighter and more flexible of a rifle system.

I still have the emc and ecc. Everything else has moved on.

Just my worthless $.02

 

[shane45]

JC your experiences mirror my own. But I kept the OBR and the SCAR 17 The EMC is my go to. My OBR is for when I want to shoot groups on the ground. The SCAR is for abuse!

 

[Jcgodfrey]

I also owned a scar 17.

I’d put that high on my list if it came standard with the geissele trigger and a rail extension. Pretty slick and capable system in a lighter weight package.

That being said, my EMC shot circles around it and about 1/2 pound more weight (according to specs I looked up online). EMC “feels” more robust too, for what that is worth

 

[Jcgodfrey]

JC your experiences mirror my own. But I kept the OBR and the SCAR 17

Scar is a rifle I would look at for sure if I found one at the right price. I hated the short rail and the trigger was downright embarrassing for a rifle that costs that much. Now that rifle with the kinectic rail + geissele? There is a winner IMO.

I had no complaints about the Larue. Fit and finish was top notch and it shot better than most bolt actions. It was insanely accurate. In the end the kac won out due to overall capability/weight. That’s just my results based off of the mission I wanted to achieve out of a semi auto 7.62.

 

[shane45]

Are you my lost brother? Added Kenetic rail and Geissele trigger to mine a few years ago!

 

[Jcgodfrey]

Are you my lost brother? Added Kenetic rail and Geissele trigger to mine a few years ago!

Lol just know what all the cool kids are using!

 

[corey4]

Gap-10 - beastly. Accurate, IMO didn’t have much else going for it. I liked it but I prefer my 308 SA’s to be lighter and more flexible of a rifle system.

Beastly as in heavy? Was this a seekins gap10?

 

[Jcgodfrey]

Beastly as in heavy? Was this a seekins gap10?

Beastly as in heavy. Old first gen POF style with 20+ inch barrel.

 

[KimberGuy]

Just so you get all your facts right, JP Rifles have been proven to be just as reliable as any other rifle when it come to combat. Archway Defense took a JP-15 basic build an torture tested it and it came through with flying colors and this was a plain Jane basic rifle. So to say that JP Rifles are only gaming rifles means you don't know what you're talking about, if that was the case then why would Military & Law enforcement use them in real world situations. Just sayin

Archway Defense torture test...... Lololol.

 

[flyright]

The ease of barrel swaps really sold me on the LMT. My initial experience with the old quad rail was positive with routine sub moa groups - chrome barrel. I finally got persuaded to sell that one and immediately went out and picked up the newer slick side. Groups were terrible with the 16" SS .308 barrel so I just ordered a 6.5 CM barrel for it - same thing for 60 rounds. I removed the bbl, cleaned the extension and inside of upper, put the bbl in with the gun standing on its butt and retourqued. Afterwards, the gun was hammering with the 6.5 bbl and then with the .308 bbl. Quite a few 100 yd groups of 1/3 to 1/2 moa and several 600 yd groups of 2.5-3". I won't sell this one. It hasn't had a single malfunction with any ammo I've shot with either barrel. Way over gassed but accurate and reliable as can be. My friends KAC seems like the exact same rifle, lighter but not quite as accurate as my LMT. For the price, I'd buy another MWS in a minute.

 

[lizzardking308]

With an 18” SS barrel on my MWS it’s a hammer out to 830, which is the farthest I’ve taken it. While printing small groups is fun, I have bolt rifles for that purpose. My rifle will shoot sub MOA to distance so long as the moron behind it does his job. The MWS is a battle rifle where a premium, in my humble opinion, is placed on bombproof reliability. The MWS is hard to beat there. Weight, it’s within a few ounces of the HK 417 and I think within a pound of the SR25. The quick change barrel is pretty sweet especially with the option of a stupid accurate barrel from Rivers Bend if the factory barrels aren’t your jam. I don’t really see any downsides to the MWS.

 

[Crosshairs6]

With Robar finish....

 

[RUTGERS95]

just found this thread and it's interesting to say the least.

Had a KAC but sold it as I wasn't into shooting longer range at the time. Great rifle, accurate, but at the price point, I made a nice coin on it.

I currently have a lmt mws (the SA contract overrun) and with the 16" cl barrel, I get moa with german dag and around .9 with fgmm 168s
I do have the ss 5r barrel in 20" and an embarassed to say I've only gotten it to .75ish with 168gr fgmm but it's a new barrel and I'm still finding the right ammo

it's not just the enlarged extension but LMT also cuts their gas port differently among a few other things. It is heavier but a 1lb difference negligable to be honest and most just parrot what they read. Besides, with the added weight and beefiness I feel the recoil is reduced.

I've built enough 308s to know that anyone who says you can achieve same level of reliability and accuracy as the KAC and LMT are just talking. Sure it can happen but NOT with consistency. Per all reports, the KAC and LMT are exceptionally reliable weapons that provide very good accuracy.

buy what you want and enjoy

 

[Merle]

I have a 308 AR I put together myself using a Mega maten receiver set, Mega wedge lock handguard, LMT MWS BCG, LMT MWS action spring, KAC SR25 receiver extension, and a Criterion stainless barrel. What part of my rifle would fail before a SR25?

 

[RUTGERS95]

I have a 308 AR I put together myself using a Mega maten receiver set, Mega wedge lock handguard, LMT MWS BCG, LMT MWS action spring, KAC SR25 receiver extension, and a Criterion stainless barrel. What part of my rifle would fail before a SR25?

not sure but I would rather put that money into the sr25 or the mws to be honest. Key word here is consistency my friend

 

[SFree]

If an individual assembles a rifle and guarantees world class reliability and consistency then why wouldn’t every military have each soldier build their own rifle?

 

[The DFC]

not sure but I would rather put that money into the sr25 or the mws to be honest. Key word here is consistency my friend

Me too-hell LMT has flash sales every once in a while plus black Friday deals-you can get into a large frame for around $2k or less.

 

[Merle]

not sure but I would rather put that money into the sr25 or the mws to be honest. Key word here is consistency my friend

At half the price of a SR25 I'll stick with what I got. Mine is already set up for my surefire suppressor as well.
Edit: I should have written a third of the price.

 

[Fenix Mike]

To get away from the arguments, do you want a Ferrari or a Lamborghini? Both are top tier rifles with proven accuracy. I have Knights rifles and LMT rifles... in this case, my 20 inch 308 is a LMT MWS. Its absolutely astonishing how well it shoots, with whatever ammo I feed it, nice soft recoil, and its almost boring to lug to the range knowing it will perform exactly the same way every time. I dont want to pay KAC pricing on a 308 rifle, but I have a SR15 SBR and a SR15 LPR that I chose because I liked the looks, light weight, and performance of them.

As some said, both companies are known for engineering many "non standard" parts. Knights lives off knowing they engineer the rifle from front to back, and when they see a flaw, they upgrade it accordingly. They also use Kreiger match barrels in their rifles, so you know its going to be a shooter. LMT perfected the easy to swap barrel system, and has fantastic barrels with superb accuracy. Their barrel locking system is absolutely amazing, and likely helps with the sub MOA consistency my rifle has on Magtech 168 gr ammo.

Really cant go wrong either way. I think Knights rifles look sexy, but for me, at half the price I went with the MWS and havent looked back. I dont own a LMT 5.56 gun, but its not because I dont like them or trust them, I just prefer the KACs.

 

[The DFC]

To get away from the arguments, do you want a Ferrari or a Lamborghini? Both are top tier rifles with proven accuracy. I have Knights rifles and LMT rifles... in this case, my 20 inch 308 is a LMT MWS. Its absolutely astonishing how well it shoots, with whatever ammo I feed it, nice soft recoil, and its almost boring to lug to the range knowing it will perform exactly the same way every time. I dont want to pay KAC pricing on a 308 rifle, but I have a SR15 SBR and a SR15 LPR that I chose because I liked the looks, light weight, and performance of them.

As some said, both companies are known for engineering many "non standard" parts. Knights lives off knowing they engineer the rifle from front to back, and when they see a flaw, they upgrade it accordingly. They also use Kreiger match barrels in their rifles, so you know its going to be a shooter. LMT perfected the easy to swap barrel system, and has fantastic barrels with superb accuracy. Their barrel locking system is absolutely amazing, and likely helps with the sub MOA consistency my rifle has on Magtech 168 gr ammo.

Really cant go wrong either way. I think Knights rifles look sexy, but for me, at half the price I went with the MWS and havent looked back. I dont own a LMT 5.56 gun, but its not because I dont like them or trust them, I just prefer the KACs.

Me too-LMT AR10s and KAC AR15s. Very happy although I'd be lying if I said I haven't considered getting an SR25 in the safe-just hasn't happened yet and probably never will. All no-brainer professional guns that just work really well.

 

[Jsp556]

The LMT 5.56 guns do not disappoint.

I pick LMT over KAC just for the fact that the rifles do not have to go back to the factory for replacing barrels and spare BCG availability. Need a new barrel for your LMT? $345 -$700 delivered, 3 min with your torque wrench and you’re back in business. In my experience, LMT barrels will shoot with the LW barreled Larue’s and the Obermeyer & Kreiger barreled KAC’s.

 

[Voyager1]

They should change the LMT "MWS" to "HAB" for heavy as balls. It probably performs like a champ but after holding one, I doubt I'd want to hump that thing up and down mountains all day.

I have one and it’s EXCELLENT, however it’s heavy. Especially with the 24” 6.5 CREEDMOOR BARREL

 

[Voyager1]

I had a LMT MWS with a 20” chrome lined barrel and it was the most accurate 308 I’ve ever owned and averaged 6x5’s in the .7’s

Extremely accurate rifles. I own (2) and they will shoot sub MOA every time I’m able to....

 

[Voyager1]

I have a kac ecc. Very nice rifle. Is it worth the money? I don't know but it's cool as fuck. Accuracy wise it's a solid 1.25 rifle. Some bigger and some smaller. The Indian driving the bow could be a lot better. Had a 2009 pof 308 with a rock creek barrel that I would say would hold just as good groups for a third of the price. I shoot and like to collect nice rifles. None are safe queens, and none are abused but what's the point of buying something you don't shoot. Back to the subject, I do not regret the kac purchase and it will stay in the collection.

You and I both

 

[Voyager1]

Me too-LMT AR10s and KAC AR15s. Very happy although I'd be lying if I said I haven't considered getting an SR25 in the safe-just hasn't happened yet and probably never will. All no-brainer professional guns that just work really well.

Yes sir! To me the SR 15 has one of the SMOOTHEST recoil impulses for a rifle I’ve ever shot (and I’ve shot at least 40 different males of 5.56). It doesn’t mean I’m an expert it’s just my experience....

 

[RUTGERS95]

resurrecting this thread with some new observations from this past weekend.

buddy of mine has a 2017 sr25 and we were shooting at 500 yards in pa. No question about it in my mind, the lmt seems more solid and the design/construction intent validates this for me. No question it's heavier but the heavier weight tamed some of the hotter loads with just a nudge to the shoulder so to speak. Of course there are other ways to balance and enhance this so it's a moot point. Both cl were on par for accuracy with the lmt edging it out just a bit but not enough to really raise the marker on or decry user. When I swapped to the ss 5r then separation was apparent as my 20" barrel is getting broken in and starting to really tighten up the groups.

overall I think it comes down to preference really. Both are outstanding and proven rifles but there is no way in my mind the kac is worth the price with the lmt sitting there

 

[Voyager1]

And the truth is, the M110 was the shittiest gun KAC ever sold to the gov. It was built to the army's spec against the advice of KAC. KAC tried numerous PIPs to fix the DoDs stupid, and we're turned down. The mk11'was a better gun and pretty much every other non army spec m110 is a better designed rifle. I say this because even their worst gun( and let's be honest, the m110 had alot more potential than executed) is still in he top 3 of combat semi sws. Their best guns we're commercial releases which is great for you and me.

That’s exactly correct and I wish more people understood this. if you were in the military saw the the ridiculousness of the bureaucracy associated with the federal procurement process and the inability to deviate From contracted specs without changing the entire contract you would be appalled. At least some people now are trying to change the way the federal government operates much to the chagrin of the permanent political class....

 

[regency]

I own a LMT MWS, KAC SR25, and a Larue PredatOBR.

The Larue and KAC both have the same accuracy (about .6-.7moa) LMT is about 1.2moa
The Larue had jams at times if it wasn't clean (ran it suppressed). Not as heavy as the LMT but close.
KAC and LMT have been 100% reliable

I still think you get the most bang for your buck with the LMT. Guys are selling them with low round count for $2,000-2,200ish. That lets you get a custom made barrel, muzzle device, trigger upgrade, and scope mount before you get to base KAC price.

 

[nn8734]

At the 2-2.5k price point, LMT is very tough to beat...I owned an earlier one with the standard quad rail and I was able to get 1.25-1.5MOA out of it to 300 with occasional smaller and larger groups. Well built as all LMT rifles are.

My two main issues with it were weight and challenges I had trying to shoot it suppressed. Was way over-gassed and none of my .30 cal cans were usable after about 10 rounds (excessive bolt speed, stove piping, ejection pattern at 1’oclock).

Sold it and purchased my SR25 EMR (civilian Mk11) and shooting that rifle suppressed isn’t and issue, precision potential appx .25 MOA better, esp at 300 when shooting groups. It’s also noticeably lighter than the LMT.

 

[Strykervet]

LMT is nice, and yes, they do work closely with KAC.

I haven't shot both, I own an SR25 20", one of the newer ones, and it's the titties for sure. It's mostly a proprietary setup and so hard to really compare to the average AR10. These have cut rifle barrels, even the one 16" lighter combat model has a cut rifle barrel despite being chrome lined too.

I have handled the LMT rifle and it was nice, it was the UK issue rifle and I almost got it at one point. Not a fan of gas pistons in these rifles, short stroke or not, but if I was to select a precision one with a piston I'd probably consider the Mk20 over the LMT but I'd do some homework on optics, I understand they're hell on 'em.

KAC has never let me down in 20 years and maybe I'm a bit biased, I use a lot of their parts too. But I go with what works.

And if you get the KAC can, which is nice, the new ones weigh half as much, half the length and perform as well if not better than the longer Mk11 and M110 cans. They also came out with a PRS version now plus you can get the rifle in 6.5CM now. Or swap uppers.

No regrets on the KAC and it's one of my favorite rifles for sure. I did wind up putting their adj. fixed stock on it and a Geissele Hi-Speed trigger (factory stock and trigger are fine, just personal preference really).

IF I got another, it'd probably be either an FN or HK.

 

[nn8734]

And if you get the KAC can, which is nice, the new ones weigh half as much, half the length and perform as well if not better than the longer Mk11 and M110 cans.

Additionally, the QD mounting system is the best on the market IMO. Locks up rock solid; poi shift relative to unsuppressed is negligible. Also love the MAMS.