Kobe bryant, he gone

Always amazes me how many of these "private" aircraft fly into IFR conditions and then have no clue what to do? If they are unsure of their skills in IFR conditions, then why are they flying? We don't know this was the case; but at this point it sounds plausible. If the engines failed, did they try to auto-rotate? Seems more like they may have just flown into the mountain.

Heck, I don't like flying in IFR conditions on commercial aircraft even with GPS and ILS - especially Cat III .

I don’t believe the pilot would have been anything but commercially rated, which would include instruments. Bryant owns the charter service the aircraft belonged to.

He was either electing not to fly IFR, or it was a function of being routed around two airports.

Pilot called out 1500 feet in his last transmission. Can anybody get an elevation at the crash site? If crash site is at something below that, it would point to a mechanical.

Odd the radio from the aircraft went wonky just prior.
 
If you listen to the above audio, he just goes dark after seeming to accept and confirm instruction from control. Which says catastrophic failure to me. He was calm and responsive then gone. Then disappears from RADAR.

Maybe hit by drone? ?
 
If you listen to the above audio, he just goes dark after seeming to accept and confirm instruction from control. Which says catastrophic failure to me. He was calm and responsive then gone. Then disappears from RADAR.

Maybe hit by drone? ?

Tomorrow’s NYT headline:

TRUMP SHOOTS DOWN BLACK MAN
 
I don’t believe the pilot would have been anything but commercially rated, which would include instruments. Bryant owns the charter service the aircraft belonged to.

He was either electing not to fly IFR, or it was a function of being routed around two airports.

Pilot called out 1500 feet in his last transmission. Can anybody get an elevation at the crash site? If crash site is at something below that, it would point to a mechanical.

Odd the radio from the aircraft went wonky just prior.
I didn't realize we already had data from the ATC. Yes, that would point to mechanical more than just running into the mountain. They'll find out fairly quickly as this one is high profile and should be easier than say a jet crash.
 
If you listen to the above audio, he just goes dark after seeming to accept and confirm instruction from control. Which says catastrophic failure to me. He was calm and responsive then gone. Then disappears from RADAR.

Maybe hit by drone? ?
This occurs when your low. He was VFR trying to stay out of IFR. You can hear them during the hand offs confirming he’s VFR.
 
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This is from a news page. The lower right pin is where it crashed, the other two are flight path waypoints.

C1FE2643-C939-47D1-BF15-D872E9075953.png


This is the flight tracker path, crash is at the left. Doesn’t really agree with the above path.

B31068FD-38B3-4FA7-8EFA-ADC3D204450A.png



Crash site in the red circle.
A7DA3AF9-7F7A-4818-A244-93993AF34F55.jpeg



He called out 1500 feet on his last transmission. There’s a 1600’ plateau to the east (just out of picture) that follows that 1500’ contour line. The flight tracker path kinda puts him coming in over that from east to west.
 
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whether you care for Kobe or not, which I don’t, but none the less that’s a 13 year old girl you’re talking about and one that lost her life today.....

pretty freakin classless dude....

Just like the $2.00 waste of O2 that spawned it. "I'z beez pla bakkabawl" is *NOT* something that deserves any respect whatsoever!
 
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Just like the $2.00 waste of O2 that spawned it. "I'z beez pla bakkabawl" is *NOT* something that deserves any respect whatsoever!

In the end this will turn out to be several children and their parents dead. Regardless how you feel about a basketball player this is about a father and daughter. Most members on here would risk everything to give a child a second chance at life. Many are Military, Police, Fire and EMS. Pick on a grownup all you want. Children are off limits

You on the other hand are one load your mom should have swallowed years ago....
 
Here is my take as a commercial pilot, together with some background info for non-pilots.

Fixed wing aircraft need forward speed to stay in the air. Helicopters can hover and ascend/descend vertically.

Flying with significant forward speed requires a certain amount of visibility to react to terrain, other traffic, and obstructions like antenna towers.

When the weather is ugly and forward visibility too limited, flying by visual references does not work anymore and pilots have to be qualified to fly with the help of instruments and have to file an IFR (instrument flight rules) flight plan.

When on an IFR flight plan, people on the ground looking at radar screens prevent you from running into other airplanes and published IFR routes and approach procedures prevent you from running into fixed 'stuff'.

Even with that help, the pilot still has to fight spatial disorientation because our inner ear was never designed to work for long without optical or tactile recalibration.(see note below)

One of the worst things you can do as a pilot is to stretch visual flight beyond its limits. This is called 'scud running' and ranks as the leading killer in aviation.

The helicopter was operating on a special VFR (visual flight rules) clearance that is intended to allow helicopters to land or take off from airports that are under IFR conditions (i.e. low ceiling and/or limited visibility). This clearance is only granted to helicopters for a reason. The idea behind exempting helos from having to file IFR around airports is that they do not require the forward speed that gets you in trouble.

What the crashed helicopter did, according to the radar track and the ATC (Air traffic control) communication, looks like low altitude scud running with significant forward speed in hilly terrain and the most probable accident cause is that bad decision making caught up with them.

Sorry for the souls lost but this does not look like a freak accident, more like a predictable, inevitable outcome of a very bad choice by the pilot(s).

If I read the meteorological conditions correctly, they had the option to ascend into good visibility, transition, and then descend through the murk. Still not trivial but much more survivable. Or they could have filed IFR and done it right.

"Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect."

— Captain A. G. Lamplugh, British Aviation Insurance Group, London. 1930's


Note on spatial disorientation:

Aviation training uses this phenomenon in sophisticated flight simulators. If you tilt the simulator box without the pilots inside having a visual cue, the pilot's brain will interpret the change of the gravitational vector as an acceleration. So you can simulate a flying airplane very realistically with a tilting and shaking box on the ground.

The challenge in instrument flying is to trust the instruments and not your instincts. This is not trivial and requires specific training, certification, and then current experience to be legally allowed and able to fly in these conditions. It is relatively easy in big jets, not so much in small airplanes, and a real bear in helicopters without a very sophisticated auto pilot system due to the inherent instability of a helicopter.

Spatial disorientation can also be a threat in meteorological conditions that look benign and legally do not require IFR certification and clearance. Kennedy's crash is an example for optical illusions (angled coastlines in hazy dusk or darkness) causing the pilot to depart from straight and level flight and then aggravating a descending turn by inappropriate control response into what we colorfully call a 'graveyard spiral'. He felt that he was descending and pulled up, thereby tightening the unnoticed turn. As the turn tightens, the airplane looses more vertical lift and descends even faster. The only way to save his life would have been to look at the instruments, interpret them correctly (I am in a TURN) and apply the correct control input (stop the turn and then worry about pitch/altitude). Something he had not yet learned and perfected.
 
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This is from a news page. The lower right pin is where it crashed, the other two are flight path waypoints.

View attachment 7234781

This is the flight tracker path, crash is at the left. Doesn’t really agree with the above path.

View attachment 7234782


Crash site in the red circle.
View attachment 7234783


He called out 1500 feet on his last transmission. There’s a 1600’ plateau to the east (just out of picture) that follows that 1500’ contour line. The flight tracker path kinda puts him coming in over that from east to west.
As a former airline maintenance controller, and air safety FREAK, I'm glad you posted this up. Whether I care about Kobe or not, I absolutely want to get to the bottom of the issue with the crash. Was it pilot "in a hurry" or "get-there-itis" or mechanical? Questions I don't like to leave unanswered. And, half ass just blame the pilot answers don't cut it for me.

On a side note, I googled "Mauser" and this came up. That's how I found out about it. Christina Mauser was Kobe's daughters coach.
 
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Here is my take as a commercial pilot with some background info for non-pilots.

Fixed wing aircraft need forward speed to stay in the air. Helicopters can hover and ascend/decend vertically.

Flying with significant forward speed requires a certain amount of visibility to react to terrain, other traffic, and obtructions like antenna towers.

When the weather is ugly and forward visibility too limited, flying by visual references does not work anymore and pilots have to be qualified to fly with the help of instruments and have to file an IFR (instrument flight rules) flight plan.

When on an IFR flight plan, people on the ground looking at radar screens prevent you from running into other airplanes and published IFR routes and approach procedures prevent you from running into fixed 'stuff'.

Even with that help, the pilot still has to fight spatial disorientation because our inner ear was never designed to work for long without optical or tactile recalibration.(see note below)

One of the worst things you can do as a pilot is to stretch visual flight beyond its limits. This is called 'scud running' and ranks as the leading killer in aviation.

The helicopter was operating on a special VFR (visual flight rules) clearance that is intended to allow helicopters to land or take off from airports that are under IFR conditions (i.e. low ceiling and/or limited visibility). This clearance is only granted to helicopters for a reason. The idea behind exempting helos from having to file IFR around airports is that they do not require the forward speed that gets you in trouble.

What the crashed helicopter did, according to the radar track and the ATC (Air traffic control) communication, looks like low altitude scud running with significant forward speed in hilly terrain and the most probable accident cause is that bad decision making caught up with them.

Sorry for the souls lost but this does not look like a freak accident, more like a predictable, inevitable outcome of a very bad choice by the pilot(s).

If I read the metereological conditions correctly, they had the option to ascend into good visibility, transition, and then descend through the murk. Still not trivial but much more survivable. Or file IFR and do it right.

"Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect."

— Captain A. G. Lamplugh, British Aviation Insurance Group, London. 1930's


Note on spatial disorientation:

Aviation training uses this phenomenon in sophisticated flight simulators. If you tilt the simulator box without the pilots inside having a visual cue, the pilot's brain will interpret the change of the gravitational vector as an acceleration. So you can simulate a flying airplane very realistically with a tilting and shaking box on the ground.

The challenge in instrument flying is to trust the instruments and not your instincts. This is not trivial and requires specific training, certification, and then current experience to be legally allowed to fly in these conditions. It is relatively easy in big jets, not so much in small airplanes, and a real bear in helicopters without a very sophisticated auto pilot system due to the inherent instability of a helicopter.

Spatial disorientation can also be a threat in metereological conditions that look benign and legally do not require IFR certification and clearance. Kennedy's crash is an example for optical illusions (angled coastlines in hazy dusk or darkness) causing the pilot to depart from straight and level flight and then aggravating a descending turn by inappropriate control response into what we colorfully call a 'graveyard spiral'. He felt that he was descending and pulled up, thereby tightening the unnoticed turn. As the turn tightens, the airplane looses more vertical lift and descends even faster. The only way to save his life would have been to look at the instruments, interpret them correctly (I am in a TURN) and apply the correct control input (stop the turn and then worry about pitch/altitude). Something he had not yet learned and perfected.

Have you ever been out in that area this time of year ? The fog is horrendous. Apparently, the pilot departed SNA and followed I-5 all the way up to the San Fernando valley/Burbank/Glendale, then flew up the east side of the valley (perhaps) to the Simi area, before cutting across.

Why not fly a more direct route ? I believe it was to avoid all of the fog in the area as much as possible. I suspect this was simply bad decision making/pilot error, as you say.
 
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Have you ever been out to that area this time of year ? The fog is horrendous. Apparently, the pilot departed SNA and followed I-5 all the way up to the San Fernando valley/Burbank/Glendale, then flew up the east side of the valley (perhaps) to the Simi area, before cutting across.

Why not fly a more direct route ? I believe it was to avoid all of the fog in the area as much as possible. I suspect this was simply bad decision making/pilot error, as you say.
i imagine as a commercial pilot he's seen SNA, BUR and LAX at least once or twice... Do an overnight and you get first hand experience with how much fog there is in that area and quite often.
 
i imagine as a commercial pilot he's seen SNA, BUR and LAX at least once or twice... Do an overnight and you get first hand experience with how much fog there is in that area and quite often.
No, I’m talking about the Thousand Oaks, Agoura Hills, Westlake Village, Calabassas, Newbury Park areas. That’s where I am referring to the fog being horrendous. Basically, the entire I-101 corridor from Topanga Blvd out to the west end of Newbury Park, before the freeway drops down the hill into the Oxnard area.
 
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No, I’m talking about the Thousand Oaks, Agoura Hills, Westlake Village, Calabassas, Newbury Park areas. That’s where I am referring to the fog being horrendous. Basically, the entire I-101 corridor from Topanga Blvd out to the west end of Newbury Park, before the freeway drops down the hill into the Oxnard area.
I went to school in Santa Barbara, and yeah that shit is thick! Burned off by noon and a beautiful the rest of the day.

You take off out of any of those airports, fog is a huge concern. And you see it as you climb out.
 
Some idiot talking head named Whitlock just said "He compares Kobe Bryant's death to Pat Tillman... he died serving his country by flying to a basketball camp for kids."

Seriously? Seriously????

Ok, it's nice that he coaches kids. But dying in your $40M helicopter after a career in which you amassed a quarter billion dollars... is nothing like putting the career on hold, making it through RASP, going to Afghanistan as a Tier-One warrior.... and not coming home.

These sports 'heroes' are not heroes. They are fine entertainers. Nothing more.

Of course, it's all sports talking heads and 'entertainers' from news making 'entertainers' into heroes. What do we expect. They have each others backs.

@Tucker301 your post could not have possibly been more on-point! Was there even one mention of the Marine chopper that crashed yesterday killing 11 Marines and a Navy Corpsman? Even one?

Sirhr
 
I heard it too and my blood pressure shot through the roof.
I could GAF about 99.999% of these spoiled. fucking brat professional athletes, but Tillman was not them, and comparing this guy to an actual hero is beyond the pale ignorant.

I'd trade a hundred of him for one of the Marines who died the other day. I wouldn't wish ill on any of them, but the societal rot that this exposes is unbelievable to me.
 
Some idiot talking head named Whitlock just said "He compares Kobe Bryant's death to Pat Tillman... he died serving his country by flying to a basketball camp for kids."

Seriously? Seriously????

Ok, it's nice that he coaches kids. But dying in your $40M helicopter after a career in which you amassed a quarter billion dollars... is nothing like putting the career on hold, making it through RASP, going to Afghanistan as a Tier-One warrior.... and not coming home.

These sports 'heroes' are not heroes. They are fine entertainers. Nothing more.

Of course, it's all sports talking heads and 'entertainers' from news making 'entertainers' into heroes. What do we expect. They have each others backs.

@Tucker301 your post could not have possibly been more on-point! Was there even one mention of the Marine chopper that crashed yesterday killing 11 Marines and a Navy Corpsman? Even one?

Sirhr
God that makes me mad!

It’s how I feel when someone thanks me for my service, then gives me the “go away” vibe so they don’t have to talk to me.

Added: Death toll up to 31 in Marine CH-53E crash. RIP Warriors.
This crash was from 2006 -Sorry
 
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"Thank you for your service", is a whole other thread by itself.

Clearly these people are so totally unfamiliar with what real fear is that they have no concept of what real courage is. Honestly, one of the reasons I think I'm so disinterested in sports and athletes is this misguided hero worship people have. In this life you have to be your own fucking hero, period. None are good. No not one.
 
As a former airline maintenance controller, and air safety FREAK, I'm glad you posted this up. Whether I care about Kobe or not, I absolutely want to get to the bottom of the issue with the crash. Was it pilot "in a hurry" or "get-there-itis" or mechanical? Questions I don't like to leave unanswered. And, half ass just blame the pilot answers don't cut it for me.

On a side note, I googled "Mauser" and this came up. That's how I found out about it. Christina Mauser was Kobe's daughters coach.


That’s my feeling about it. Im
Interested in answers, and the fact that kobe was onboard doesn’t affect that at all.
 
That’s my feeling about it. Im
Interested in answers, and the fact that kobe was onboard doesn’t affect that at all.
There will be a detailed NTSB report available to the public here once the investigation is completed. I read these reports regularly as understanding how other pilots shortened their lives may prevent you from repeating the same mistakes.

Just write down the registration number of the crashed helo (N72EX) and search the NTSB site in a few months. The investigators do not follow the news cycle, they look for factual evidence, which may take a while.
 
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i imagine as a commercial pilot he's seen SNA, BUR and LAX at least once or twice... Do an overnight and you get first hand experience with how much fog there is in that area and quite often.
Have not worked for the airlines but I know this area well. The regular coastal fog is very beautiful if you respect it and can be very deadly if you don't. Taking off (with IFR skills, certification, and clearance) in a grey, low visibility mess and then popping up into bright sunshine over an ocean of clouds or fog is among my most cherished experiences on this planet.
 
Here is my take as a commercial pilot, together with some background info for non-pilots.

Fixed wing aircraft need forward speed to stay in the air. Helicopters can hover and ascend/descend vertically.

Flying with significant forward speed requires a certain amount of visibility to react to terrain, other traffic, and obstructions like antenna towers.

When the weather is ugly and forward visibility too limited, flying by visual references does not work anymore and pilots have to be qualified to fly with the help of instruments and have to file an IFR (instrument flight rules) flight plan.

When on an IFR flight plan, people on the ground looking at radar screens prevent you from running into other airplanes and published IFR routes and approach procedures prevent you from running into fixed 'stuff'.

Even with that help, the pilot still has to fight spatial disorientation because our inner ear was never designed to work for long without optical or tactile recalibration.(see note below)

One of the worst things you can do as a pilot is to stretch visual flight beyond its limits. This is called 'scud running' and ranks as the leading killer in aviation.

The helicopter was operating on a special VFR (visual flight rules) clearance that is intended to allow helicopters to land or take off from airports that are under IFR conditions (i.e. low ceiling and/or limited visibility). This clearance is only granted to helicopters for a reason. The idea behind exempting helos from having to file IFR around airports is that they do not require the forward speed that gets you in trouble.

What the crashed helicopter did, according to the radar track and the ATC (Air traffic control) communication, looks like low altitude scud running with significant forward speed in hilly terrain and the most probable accident cause is that bad decision making caught up with them.

Sorry for the souls lost but this does not look like a freak accident, more like a predictable, inevitable outcome of a very bad choice by the pilot(s).

If I read the meteorological conditions correctly, they had the option to ascend into good visibility, transition, and then descend through the murk. Still not trivial but much more survivable. Or they could have filed IFR and done it right.

"Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect."

— Captain A. G. Lamplugh, British Aviation Insurance Group, London. 1930's


Note on spatial disorientation:

Aviation training uses this phenomenon in sophisticated flight simulators. If you tilt the simulator box without the pilots inside having a visual cue, the pilot's brain will interpret the change of the gravitational vector as an acceleration. So you can simulate a flying airplane very realistically with a tilting and shaking box on the ground.

The challenge in instrument flying is to trust the instruments and not your instincts. This is not trivial and requires specific training, certification, and then current experience to be legally allowed and able to fly in these conditions. It is relatively easy in big jets, not so much in small airplanes, and a real bear in helicopters without a very sophisticated auto pilot system due to the inherent instability of a helicopter.

Spatial disorientation can also be a threat in meteorological conditions that look benign and legally do not require IFR certification and clearance. Kennedy's crash is an example for optical illusions (angled coastlines in hazy dusk or darkness) causing the pilot to depart from straight and level flight and then aggravating a descending turn by inappropriate control response into what we colorfully call a 'graveyard spiral'. He felt that he was descending and pulled up, thereby tightening the unnoticed turn. As the turn tightens, the airplane looses more vertical lift and descends even faster. The only way to save his life would have been to look at the instruments, interpret them correctly (I am in a TURN) and apply the correct control input (stop the turn and then worry about pitch/altitude). Something he had not yet learned and perfected.
As an ex/VFR private fixed-wing pilot and done most of my flight time/hrs, in Calif., you summed it up quite nicely and correctly. Thank you for your post. Mac(y)
 
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Please do not let this accident discourage you from flying or helping your kids, nephews, nices to earn their pilot's license. Not only is piloting an airplane/helo a very beautiful realization of an age old human dream but also an excellent school for life. I would say that aviation has saved me from killing myself in other jack-assed stunts.

Being a pilot requires confidence but at the same time a great deal of humility and respect for forces that are much bigger than you.

A pilot needs to be an optimist but also very critical, almost to the point of being morbid, about the little things that can cause big problems.

He/she needs to plan ahead in detail but then always adjust the plan to the ever changing conditions. Sloppiness will kill just as fast as rigidity.

An aviator needs to be eager to learn every detail about an endeavor that ultimately is beyond comprehension. Well knowing that you can't know everything, you still need to make it a point knowing everything you can.

Even the bigger than life artists in this field, like Yeager and Hoover, embodied these traits. Bob Hoover, who not only knew how to fly very well but also had a detailed understanding of why airplanes fly or don't suggested to a younger test pilot that he may not want to volunteer for a test flight in an aircraft that Hoover considered uncontrollable beyond a certain point. The younger pilot shrugged it off with a reference to Hoover being 'old'. That was one on the last errors the younger pilot made on this planet. There are bold pilots and there are old pilots but there are very, very few bold and old pilots.

Flying puts you literally above the mundanity of life and at the same time makes you appreciate the beauty and preciousness of life.
 
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There will be a detailed NTSB report available to the public here once the investigation is completed. I read these reports regularly as understanding how other pilots shortened their lives may prevent you from repeating the same mistakes.

Just write down the registration number of the crashed helo (N72EX) and search the NTSB site in a few month. The investigators do not follow the news cycle, they look for irrefutable, factual evidence.


I surf those occasionally, thanks.