KRG Whiskey-3: Am I just too perfectionist?

[Ziloooo]

Recently bought a KRG Whiskey-3 Comp pack. First time installing the spigot to the chassis, found the spigot is not super align with the barrel tunnel.

Contacted KRG, sent it back, and they fixed it. All good! I can't be more happy with their CS.

However, my initial guess on the misalignment is due to something wrong with the backbone, like the angular error. I did put a bubble measure on different parts of the backbone and can confirm the backbone is twisting counterclock-wise from rear to the front. This tilt is still present after their service. I did measure the forend and the backbone separately today, both of them have this counterclock-wise twist.

Forend Rear

Forend Front

Backbone Rear

Backbone Front

I know the chassis, though precision machined, is not holding as tight tolerance as the action or the barrel. But is this type of twist considered normal in machining tolerance? or I'm just being too perfectionist?

If you folks have the KRG chassis, especially W3, and a bubble level on hand, would you mind measuring yours as well?

 

[fdkay]

Since the barrel doesn't contact that area, it would have no effect.
Also, that is not a machinist level, there will be error there.
It appears you have it sitting on a wood surface. It is nearly impossible for that to be perfectly level.
There is a lot of tolerance stacking there. That is likely not a good reading.

 

[Ziloooo]

Since the barrel doesn't contact that area, it would have no effect.
Also, that is not a machinist level, there will be error there.
It appears you have it sitting on a wood surface. It is nearly impossible for that to be perfectly level.
There is a lot of tolerance stacking there. That is likely not a good reading.

yeah, i don't actually too much concern about the 'level' itself as long as the rear and the front measure the same way. But if the rear is measured 1 degree, the front is measured let's say 3 degree, that means the part is 'twisted' 2 degree. Isn't it?

 

[Mike Casselton]

Stop measuring shit that doesn't matter.
If you look hard enough, you'll find problems with everything built.

You can choose to go and shoot or you can choose to drive yourself nuts.

Personally, I choose shooting and leave the nuts to the Squirrels.

 

[Emerson0311]

Also, your choice of chassis is not necessarily top end. Save a few $$$, put up with small imperfections. I would file this problem under “the trials of a poor”. I have lived this many times.

 

[kindabitey]

Also, your choice of chassis is not necessarily top end. Save a few $$$, put up with small imperfections. I would file this problem under “the trials of a poor”. I have lived this many times.

Define "not top end" There's a lot of people using the W3 and doing quite well with them.

 

[moosemeat]

Not top end by price. Features and adaptability are very high especially vs cost.
The backbone is mostlike machined from a extrusion (after further review, these look to be machined from billet). Extrusions are never straight/square/ parallel/perpendicular. Combine that with the fact the extrusions tend to stress relieve during machining and you can get some deformation.
About 25 years ago I worked at a machine shop that made the aluminum bedding blocks for Bell and Carson stocks(could have been HS, it was a long time ago). These where machined from billet. We produced pallets of em a week. They passed QC with a +- of 0.050 in any area NOT touching the action. We still scrapped about 3%. Even the bullet 7075 aluminum we machined twisted a lot in the forend area where the most material was removed.

 

[hlee]

I’m guessing you’ll never see the “imperfection” once the rifle is built. And, what imperfection is there won’t show up on the target.

 

[LuvDog]

The way you have pictured won’t tell you if there is twist. Turn it upside down on a known flat surface and see if it has constant contact

 

[Jscb1b]

Put it in a vise, get a big assed pipe wrench and twist it back. I LOVE my KRG chassis. They just feel right.

 

[Ziloooo]

Also, your choice of chassis is not necessarily top end. Save a few $$$, put up with small imperfections. I would file this problem under “the trials of a poor”. I have lived this many times

that’s not about “price” pal…..there’re for sure much expensive ones in the market even w3 is not the most expensive one for KRG. However, the Apple doesn’t make products with larger gaps for their regular iPhone than their pro line.

 

[Baron23]

Since the barrel doesn't contact that area, it would have no effect.
Also, that is not a machinist level, there will be error there.
It appears you have it sitting on a wood surface. It is nearly impossible for that to be perfectly level.
There is a lot of tolerance stacking there. That is likely not a good reading.

Ah, yeah....but he doesn't have to try to find actual level...just see if the degree of level changes when sequential measurements are taken from the front to the back (backbone to fore end in his terms).

But, I'd be surprised if this had any impact on accuracy or precision.

P.S. - oops, late to the party yet again...I see this point ^^ was already made. Time for me to go back to my cave! haha

 

[Ziloooo]

Not top end by price. Features and adaptability are very high especially vs cost.
The backbone is mostlike machined from a extrusion (after further review, these look to be machined from billet). Extrusions are never straight/square/ parallel/perpendicular. Combine that with the fact the extrusions tend to stress relieve during machining and you can get some deformation.
About 25 years ago I worked at a machine shop that made the aluminum bedding blocks for Bell and Carson stocks(could have been HS, it was a long time ago). These where machined from billet. We produced pallets of em a week. They passed QC with a +- of 0.050 in any area NOT touching the action. We still scrapped about 3%. Even the bullet 7075 aluminum we machined twisted a lot in the forend area where the most material was removed.

I’m guessing the same way about machining as the similar length forend and backbone are twisted in the similar way and extent. I don’t have professional knowledge about the machining, is this normal tolerance tho?

 

[Ziloooo]

Ah, yeah....but he doesn't have to try to find actual level...just see if the degree of level changes when sequential measurements are taken from the front to the back (backbone to fore end in his terms).

But, I'd be surprised if this had any impact on accuracy or precision.

You got my point

No it shouldn’t, just aesthetically. TBH, I wouldn’t have measured this to find out the root cause if the spigot initially aligns, which is more noticeable aesthetically.

 

[kl3309]

Sell it and buy something else.

 

[Makinchips208]

…. I don’t have professional knowledge about the machining, is this normal tolerance tho?

Doesn’t have to be, but It could be to meet a price point. Especially if it is something that doesn’t matter or is insignificant.

Contrast that chassis with maybe a xylo or something. Price and finished product is gonna be different.
Do they both work? Yes.

 

[Emerson0311]

Define "not top end" There's a lot of people using the W3 and doing quite well with them.

F150s do great work too.

 

[Ziloooo]

Doesn’t have to be, but It could be to meet a price point

that's why i'd like to know if this is just my piece of product being 'bad' or it's their general QC and tolerance. If the latter, I'm all good with what I have as we all know it's not functional and I do prefer their design over other comparible products at this price point.

I asked them (KRG) multiple times if this twist is within spec, they never answer this part directly tho. It would be greatly appreciated if anyone have a spare W-3 and want to measure it.

 

[moosemeat]

I’m guessing the same way about machining as the similar length forend and backbone are twisted in the similar way and extent. I don’t have professional knowledge about the machining, is this normal tolerance tho?

What I worked on was a $50 internal aluminum bedding block. We machined the entire profile, machined the portion we held onto off then they went into a fixture and the action area was machined last and held to very tight tolerance. The forward section that extended to the sling swivel would be +-0.05" regularly and withing spec. I don't remember the tolerance for the action area, that was checked in the QC room and was the only part deemed "important".
After molding these stocks were knows to be very ridged and accurate. It's 100% not a issue. If you think it is, contact KRG. I don't know their specs but can not see it being a issue.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

that's why i'd like to know if this is just my piece of product being 'bad' or it's their general QC and tolerance. If the latter, I'm all good with what I have as we all know it's not functional and I do prefer their design over other comparible products at this price point.

I asked them (KRG) multiple times if this twist is within spec, they never answer this part directly tho. It would be greatly appreciated if anyone have a spare W-3 and want to measure it.

How are you wanting it to be measured?

 

[Ziloooo]

What I worked on was a $50 internal aluminum bedding block. We machined the entire profile, machined the portion we held onto off then they went into a fixture and the action area was machined last and held to very tight tolerance. The forward section that extended to the sling swivel would be +-0.05" regularly and withing spec. I don't remember the tolerance for the action area, that was checked in the QC room and was the only part deemed "important".
After molding these stocks were knows to be very ridged and accurate. It's 100% not a issue. If you think it is, contact KRG. I don't know their specs but can not see it being a issue.

Thanks for your valuable inputs.

Initially i noticed is the misalignment on barrel tunnel between spigot and the backbone, this indicates the mating surface between the spigot and the backbone is not parallel to the top surface of the backbone, though from my eye, the concentricity is okay.

Then I guess it might be the backbone being:

• tilted, in this case if i put the bakcbone on a leveled surface, the measures should be not leveled but haves the same reading on different measurement points
• twsisted, this turn out to be the case, where one the same surface, the measure is different from rear to front

I sent it back to KRG, they fixed the spigot misalignment and sent it back. I asked how's the fix, they skipped this question. I measured the level again, and asked if it is considered within spec (multiple times), they didn't answer as well....

 

[Ziloooo]

How are you wanting it to be measured?

If you have a vise, can you hold the chassis on to the vise and put the level measure onto different points (I took 4 measures) of top surface from rear to the tip?

If you don't have the vise, you can also put the chassis on to the edge of a flat surface like me, and take the multi point measures. The caveat of this method is the little pressure you put onto the chassis to prevent the chassis from falling will influence the result a little bit.

^ without taking apart the forend from the backbone, those two methods will only give the combined error reading of the backbone and the forend, but this should be insightful enough.

 

[hlee]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. You can take a thousand measurements, but the only measurements that matter are on the target. You haven’t even built the rifle. Build it, and shoot it. Come back with those results. And, for giggles, buy a traditional stock and shoot the rifle built up in that one too. Let’s have a comparison. Fuck, buy a top tier chassis too. Let’s make it a bake off.

Or, continue to take meaningless measurements to satisfy your imagined OCD. Btw, you don’t have OCD. You just have a bit of buyers remorse due to the item you purchasing not living up to your pre-conceptions.

I get it, I bought into the AICS mag hype. I thought there’d be angels singing and my groups would be 30% tighter. Nope. They’re a fucking shit show, and anyone that tells you different is just projecting due to the immense amount of money they have “invested” in the dog turds.

But, I digress. Build the rifle. Shoot the rifle. Report after. Though, I suspect you will find that it shoots well and this thread will die without “resolution.”

 

[moosemeat]

I agree it will not affect anything. Just put it together and shoot it. I'm shocked KRG didn't reach back out to you.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

I bought a W3 because of the fanfare and glowing reviews. I never loved it and when the Xylo came out I found a new home for the W3. The W3 isn't a bad stock, it just isn't as good as I think it should be for the price. The person I sold it to posts here routinely and likes it. I'm glad there's so many options.

 

[Ziloooo]

I agree it will not affect anything. Just put it together and shoot it. I'm shocked KRG didn't reach back out to you.

They did get back to me pretty fast (ususally ~1 hour) at the beginning. And they began to reply me slower (next day) or no reply since I started bugging them with the 'if this kind of twist is within spec' question lol

Maybe because they're holding competition / attending NRA conference these days? I still have faith on them

 

[Ziloooo]

I bought a W3 because of the fanfare and glowing reviews. I never loved it and when the Xylo came out I found a new home for the W3. The W3 isn't a bad stock, it just isn't as good as I think it should be for the price. The person I sold it to posts here routinely and likes it. I'm glad there's so many options.

well tbh i like my W3, the first half of the chassis (forend / backbone half) is well thought on modularity. Anodization feels neat as well. The buttstock is a bit below my expectation though. Feels a little cheap especaily on cheek riser.

 

[Evintos]

KRG at NRAAM '24 (event ends tomorrow), so depending on when you emailed them, it may take a few days to get a response.

 

[-H-]

That thing is as crooked as a dog’s hind leg!

I’ll take it off your hands, but I’m not paying much for a chassis that is more twisted than an empty tube of toothpaste.

 

[iceng]

Measure on paper, not with a bubble suspended in fluid.

 

[Mike Casselton]

They did get back to me.............And they began to reply me slower (next day) or no reply since I started bugging them with the 'if this kind of twist is within spec' question lol

Maybe because they're holding a competition to see how ridiculous my questions will get. Not that they aren't ridiculous already.

 

[Mike Casselton]

And here we go...

 

[Weasie]

Pick up a bore scope. It will help you move on from the chassis.

 

[hlee]

Pick up a bore scope. It will help you move on from the chassis.

Next thread from OP.

Hey guys, Just picked up a bore scope and there are lines in my barrel. Help!

 

[glock24]

Expectations are premeditated resentments

 

[Ziloooo]

Expectations are premeditated resentments

well that’s true….i may just expect too much from a 1k chassis advertised “CNC” “precision machining”

Some earlier post said it’s not top end by price. That’s true. Anyone educate me how much should I spend before I can expect a thing free from observable mechanic error by my poor guy DIY level tool? 1k, 2k, 5k?

And please you guys kindly let me know since when, in PRS world, functionally “it should just work” is not the bottom line but the only focus?

 

[hlee]

Oh…. This is a PRS rig. Primary concern is not “does it work.” Primary concern is “does it have enough space for swag stickers” and “does the color match my replica jersey.

But, for real. PRS production class has a limit of $2500. If your “open rifle” cost less than this (before optics), well, GBPSE…

 

[kthomas]

well that’s true….i may just expect too much from a 1k chassis advertised “CNC” “precision machining”

Some earlier post said it’s not top end by price. That’s true. Anyone educate me how much should I spend before I can expect a thing free from observable mechanic error by my poor guy DIY level tool? 1k, 2k, 5k?

And please you guys kindly let me know since when, in PRS world, functionally “it should just work” is not the bottom line but the only focus?

If you don't like it, sell it.

Lots of great chassis and stock options available, shouldn't be a problem to find one to your liking.

 

[lariat]

Not top end by price. Features and adaptability are very high especially vs cost.
The backbone is mostlike machined from a extrusion (after further review, these look to be machined from billet). Extrusions are never straight/square/ parallel/perpendicular. Combine that with the fact the extrusions tend to stress relieve during machining and you can get some deformation.
About 25 years ago I worked at a machine shop that made the aluminum bedding blocks for Bell and Carson stocks(could have been HS, it was a long time ago). These where machined from billet. We produced pallets of em a week. They passed QC with a +- of 0.050 in any area NOT touching the action. We still scrapped about 3%. Even the bullet 7075 aluminum we machined twisted a lot in the forend area where the most material was removed.

This. I had a large batch of hand guards that I had to make from really crappy extrusion that was supplied from the customer. Extrusion is never straight. But once machined that comes out…usually, depending on the geometry of the final part length and any tension in the extrusion. Billet can be the same way. I have gotten to where I want to know the exact tolerances of the extrusion from the extruder and put it up against the final part dimensions and tolerances before I quote a job. And then I measure the extrusion once it comes in.

OP, I understand your OCD on this. Try having machining experience and deal with it - totally maddening. But if it doesn’t matter best thing to do is let it go and run with it. That is the path to internal peace.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

If you have a vise, can you hold the chassis on to the vise and put the level measure onto different points (I took 4 measures) of top surface from rear to the tip?

If you don't have the vise, you can also put the chassis on to the edge of a flat surface like me, and take the multi point measures. The caveat of this method is the little pressure you put onto the chassis to prevent the chassis from falling will influence the result a little bit.

^ without taking apart the forend from the backbone, those two methods will only give the combined error reading of the backbone and the forend, but this should be insightful enough.

You mean just the backbone? Sorry I'm not taking it all apart to check out the backbone. If there is something else I can do with the forend on one then I'm happy to do it if it will make you feel better about it. I can't even tell how yours is supposed to be off. Putting a 6" torpedo on it sitting on a table just doesn't really tell me anything.

Obviously, none of this is going to matter for your rifle performance so put your rifle together and go shoot it. If you don't like it, sell it and try a Vision or ARC, or MDT. There's a lot of options but I've always found the W3 to be a very comfortable chassis.

 

[Ziloooo]

You mean just the backbone? Sorry I'm not taking it all apart to check out the backbone. If there is something else I can do with the forend on one then I'm happy to do it if it will make you feel better about it. I can't even tell how yours is supposed to be off. Putting a 6" torpedo on it sitting on a table just doesn't really tell me anything.

Obviously, none of this is going to matter for your rifle performance so put your rifle together and go shoot it. If you don't like it, sell it and try a Vision or ARC, or MDT. There's a lot of options but I've always found the W3 to be a very comfortable chassis.

no you don’t need to take anything apart. Just the whole chassis with the bottom of forend on a flat surface or vise, and pick a few points to measure the level from action side to the tip and see if the reading is the same.

Don’t get me wrong, the reason I’m still here in this post is definitely I like this chassis from the design to the finish, and just want to calibrate my “expectation”.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

well tbh i like my W3, the first half of the chassis (forend / backbone half) is well thought on modularity. Anodization feels neat as well. The buttstock is a bit below my expectation though. Feels a little cheap especaily on cheek riser.

Doesn't sound like it. Find a new home for your W3 and get something else. Life is too short.

 

[Ziloooo]

Doesn't sound like it. Find a new home for your W3 and get something else. Life is too short.

80% like 20% dislike…..feature-wise

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

no you don’t need to take anything apart. Just the whole chassis with the bottom of forend on a flat surface or vise, and pick a few points to measure the level from action side to the tip and see if the reading is the same.

Don’t get me wrong, the reason I’m still here in this post is definitely I like this chassis from the design to the finish, and just want to calibrate my “expectation”.

There's no way to do that and it matter. With am arca rail on the bottom and the rest of the rifle attached to it there's just no way to do that and it show anything definitive. Are you saying your backbone is twisted or what exactly? Your level reading could be one side slightly higher than the other or a mix of things. Can you just spell out what it is that you are concerned with? If it's the twist you mention with both forend and backbone, I will look when I get back and see if I detect any twist. Can you see a twist with your naked eye?

 

[Ziloooo]

There's no way to do that and it matter. With am arca rail on the bottom and the rest of the rifle attached to it there's just no way to do that and it show anything definitive. Are you saying your backbone is twisted or what exactly? Your level reading could be one side slightly higher than the other or a mix of things. Can you just spell out what it is that you are concerned with? If it's the twist you mention with both forend and backbone, I will look when I get back and see if I detect any twist. Can you see a twist with your naked eye?

Ummm just need the chassis itself, so with the barreled action removed. ARCA rail attached is fine as the rail surface is supposed to be parallel to the bottom surface of the forend.

Yeah, the backbone, but also the forend and them combined seem twisted as in my original post. It would be helpful enough if you can measure them combined, no need to set them apart. The twist can be seen by naked eye from the difference on bubble position.

Tbh, this all start by misalignment on barrel tunnel between spigot and backbone, which is pretty observable by naked eye without any instrument (like this torpedo as you said lol). The issue on twist is just a side product when I try to findout where's exactly the issue.

example:

Rear (bubble within line)

Middle (bubble touch the line)

Front (bubble cross the line)

 

[Cascade Hemi]

80% like 20% dislike…..feature-wise

That's a lot of money for only 80%. That's how I landed on the W3 too; nagging design compromises that I just didn't feel warranted the price. There's more than a few 100% options FWIW.

 

[Evintos]

Just gotta ask, did you check with the bubble level on the bottom of the backbone? Also, you should check the wall height between the left and right. The "twist" could be non-existent and it being a factor of height.

 

[Ziloooo]

Just gotta ask, did you check with the bubble level on the bottom of the backbone? Also, you should check the wall height between the left and right. The "twist" could be non-existent and it being a factor of height.

Damn! You're the genius.

Just measured it, if upside down and measure on the bottom of (the forend), the level reading are pretty much the same. But just as you said, it's the issue on the height of the wall.

I took measure of forend + backbone combined:

• Left Front: 1.544 inch
• Right Front: 1.558 inch
• Left Rear: 1.648 inch
• Right Rear: 1.644 inch

seems the issue here is more of the wall height on the front. @moosemeat in his post mentioned +-0.05 so it seems not that bad tho.
If anyone want to measure theirs to verify, you're always welcomed.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Damn! You're the genius.

Just measured it, if upside down and measure on the bottom of (the forend), the level reading are pretty much the same. But just as you said, it's the issue on the height of the wall.

I took measure of forend + backbone combined:

• Left Front: 1.544 inch
• Right Front: 1.558 inch
• Left Rear: 1.648 inch
• Right Rear: 1.644 inch

seems the issue here is more of the wall height on the front. @moosemeat in his post mentioned +-0.05 so it seems not that bad tho.
If anyone want to measure theirs to verify, you're always welcomed.

Are the action contact surfaces twisted also? You may want to bed the stock to prevent distorting the action. When you tighten the action screws, do they get tight instantly or are they spongy before getting tight?

 

[Ziloooo]

Are the action contact surfaces twisted also? You may want to bed the stock to prevent distorting the action. When you tighten the action screws, do they get tight instantly or are they spongy before getting tight?

the action contact surface is a curve so not that easy to measure, but the action side (rear) wall is holding a tigher tolerance in comparison to the front side according to my measure.

this chassis is prepared for my next build, so i cannot tell the experience tightening the screw as of now. btw, is it common to bed the tactical style chassis like W-3? I did try bedding one cheap boyds stock once, it's a nightmare lol.