You asked me to show you a mount, SPI has one. Pics of it are on another thread. Would I mount my M18 on a weapon? No. But some guys do. Again, that's not the point of my thread.
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Night Vision L3 LWTS vs M18 640
- Thread starter TestnDoc
- Start date
I read your original thread...
Very funny, just wanted to clarify to anyone considering a purchase that they are indeed two different units with two different purposes.
Comparison of 2 different units Image, I get that but what I have issue with is dealers using your thread sir to compare them as "The LWTS is clearly the better rifle scope". No shit seeing as how they are not both rifle scopes.
Hence that discussion should be left in the LWTS vs T-70 thread when pertaining to weapons mountable devices.
Very funny, just wanted to clarify to anyone considering a purchase that they are indeed two different units with two different purposes.
Comparison of 2 different units Image, I get that but what I have issue with is dealers using your thread sir to compare them as "The LWTS is clearly the better rifle scope". No shit seeing as how they are not both rifle scopes.
Hence that discussion should be left in the LWTS vs T-70 thread when pertaining to weapons mountable devices.
JW, again, I get your valid point, but weapons mount ability is not the purpose of this thread. It's about the image. SkyPup has stated that the M18 and the T70 are essentially the same unit, except for the housing and 0.5x capability. I was simply pointing out the differences in image quality that I saw on a very humid night, in which the L3 was much better. It was by no means a scientific study, nor was it my intent to dissuade anyone from buying FLIR products. The T70 is a fine unit I'm sure, like the M18.
ThermalSpy... I see that you're using an ELCAN twin knob mount for Windage & Elevation adjustments + interfaces for the M18. Some of the ELCAN knobs are made of plastic & other units are Aluminum. When Tim La France was with NAIT prior to working for SUREFIRE, he built a 3x VIPER 3rd gen weapon sight for me using that ELCAN mount. The reticle was literally "etched" on the intensifier. The VIPER is reasonably compact & utilizes an ITT 18mm MCP with a resolution of 64lp/mm. The objective lens is 56mm with variable aperture. Auto brightness & anti-bloom are standard. It also has a built-in Infra-Red LASER diode projector. Tim warned me to not over tighten the two knobs as this can crush the Aluminum detent wings underneath that are essential for maintaining RTZ & secure mounting. I'm not saying that this is a bad mount, but an over zealous end-user might think if snug is good, maximum torque has to be better. I only mention this as a word of caution to those who may be unfamiliar with proper mounting procedures. It can be an issue with non milspec Picatinny rails that are slightly over sized & some folks may force the side panel by stretching it beyond its intended limits. Have you considered the STK/SingleTorqueKnob option with the same two hole vertical attachment? It's similar to what one would find on an AIMPOINT PRO, for example.
My SONY Mavica digital camera that uses a mini CDROM diskette has gone TANGO UPSILON; the intermittent MENU FAIL has achieved permanence. I was hoping to post some appropriate gun prOn with my L-3 LWTS installed on various platforms. I'll have to postpone Show & Tell until I find a suitable replacement. You just have to love electronic gizmos.
My SONY Mavica digital camera that uses a mini CDROM diskette has gone TANGO UPSILON; the intermittent MENU FAIL has achieved permanence. I was hoping to post some appropriate gun prOn with my L-3 LWTS installed on various platforms. I'll have to postpone Show & Tell until I find a suitable replacement. You just have to love electronic gizmos.
Hi Stymie, Nice photo of the setup. Yes the Elcan mount in the pic is a bit old school hahahaa. All the new wonderful thermal scopes have the digital now.
I have a question for guys like you who use the scopes more then us...
How do you like sighting in digitally instead of mechanical? Do you feel mechanical is more accurate then the digital?
I have a question for guys like you who use the scopes more then us...
How do you like sighting in digitally instead of mechanical? Do you feel mechanical is more accurate then the digital?
TestnDoc... That's some AWESOME gun prOn! KAC/KMC craft some pretty nice sticks. I purchased an SR-25K (62/100) that belonged to Trey several years ago. It's nice that the shell deflectors are now monolithic with the upper receivers as mine had the separate, rail-mounted deflector that limited optic mount options if you left it on. I have an ATLAS QD bipod on my REPR from time to time; it's an engineering marvel & amazingly light weight. I wish that I had come up with Joe Gaddini's Grip-Pod & OMEGA baffle stack. They say that money doesn't buy happiness; I'd like to put that theory to the test! Joe's a pretty good guy.
ThermalSpy... Both mechanical & digital sight-in have their merits & I'm comfortable with either system. However, external knobs are a bit more intuitive for some of us old school shooters who might be more comfortable with the status-quo of conventional optics. Digital technologies on more complex tools seem to be the trend although I've noticed that IR DEFENSE touts their external turrets ability to assist an operator by avoiding menu roulette under stress & low light conditions. As long as manufacturers don't skimp on the QC employed on these critical components, I'm 220, 221... whatever works! My greater concern is the stability of the mount & its ability to RTZ.
KAC SR15 SBR, with LWTS ready for action. Got new rails put on today, URX3.1, thanks to Ayan at boltcarrier.com.
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LWTS on a couple of KACs: ECR and LPR
That's just beautiful. How does the LWTS do behind that sort of magnified optic? Thank you for posting these pics, it's all that is keeping me going while I wait for mine to arrive
It does ok to about 8x or so, above which you get significant pixilation. I usually run the LWTS with my Kahles 1-6, and to me, the best image is between 2 and 4x. I took it out last night in stand alone mode. It was cool and low humidity....All I can say is WOW...what resolution! You will love the LWTS.
I run my LWTS in front of several optics. The quality of the optic has a lot to do with the clarity of the view. As a stand alone, which I very seldom do the clarity is exceptional. I have had the opportunity to look through a lot and none match it. My ACOG is old and I will be replacing it. The view is good but no where near as good as my Leupold CQBSS, but not as expensive either. My best capability for clarity is from 1 to 4 power. That is what I use almost exclusively. As has been pointed out before FOV is everything if you are moving.
Buried within that thread was some useful information, but overall useless noise.
The thread SHOULD have started out like this one. Pictures of one unit and pictures of the other with insightful comparisons.
Surprised the thread lasted that long.
TestnDoc... I just watched a program on the SCI/SCIENCE Channel called: "How Do They Do It?" ...Frankfurters, Sniper Rifles & Casino Security. One of the segments dealt with KAC/KMC & behind the scenes activity in the creation of their superb line of sniper rifles. Check it out if you get a chance. KNIGHT'S ARMAMENT M110 SASS SNIPER SYSTEM is featured.
You can't beat the QD KAC suppressor/FH plunger locking interface for attaching a can. Most QD interfaces have far too much slop for my liking, but that configuration is top notch w/o sacrificing positive attributes for speed of attachment/removal while maintaining stability/security. NICE! That would be my 1st choice for attachment, but I get by with the more tedious thread-ons. Even B&T has something similar to KAC's configuration.
shooter6.5... I'd be willing to bet that you would be extremely impressed with the display quality of the L-3 LWTS in clip-on mode in front of the ELCAN SPECTER D/R 1x/4x. It's my favorite combination.
You can't beat the QD KAC suppressor/FH plunger locking interface for attaching a can. Most QD interfaces have far too much slop for my liking, but that configuration is top notch w/o sacrificing positive attributes for speed of attachment/removal while maintaining stability/security. NICE! That would be my 1st choice for attachment, but I get by with the more tedious thread-ons. Even B&T has something similar to KAC's configuration.
shooter6.5... I'd be willing to bet that you would be extremely impressed with the display quality of the L-3 LWTS in clip-on mode in front of the ELCAN SPECTER D/R 1x/4x. It's my favorite combination.
My least favorite L-3 LWTS clip-on combination involves the AIMPOINT PRO Dot Sight. Talk about tunnel vision! On the other hand, the ELCAN SPECTER D/R totally blows the PRO away on 1x. The bigger the eyepiece of the conventional optic, the better, as long as you have the desired FOV. When you throw the lever on the SPECTER forward from 1x - 4x, there is virtually no degradation of thermal image quality. I prefer to use either of the dialable, variable intensity, illuminated reticles that the ELCAN provides rather than go stand-alone. Besides, I missed the two for one sale on the LWTS & prefer to not have to re-zero from weapon to weapon.
I'm not having issues but was wondering if anyone has experienced any significant top rail wear on their chosen sweet spot or have witnessed wandering zero? I have ARMS dual throw levers on my RAPTOR/M16 & it's never been an issue; just curious about single throw levers with one recoil stop.
When I tried to do some research on the L-3 LWTS before committing to purchase, I heard a lot of erroneous anecdotes; some of which are enough to give you pause & others... well, you wind up scratching your head. Water-Proof/Resistant; Submersible to 66'? 3' for 30 minutes? The .mil unit is identical to the "unrestricted" civilian LWTS? "Restricted" .mil thermals are 640 x 512? An I/R LASER target designator function is contained within the .mil version's menu? Thermal tubes degrade from day one due to vacuum loss that eventually kills the sensor/detector? Thermals have a shelf life whether they are turned on or left off. One user even suggested that the thermal be kept in the refrigerator to extend its operational lifetime.
I do realize that thermals should never be pointed directly at the SUN, that their primary objective non glass lens is TOXIC, that batteries should NEVER be stored in the unit after the OP, the same rail positioning is essential for RTZ, while passive... they do radiate a detectable heat signature & that optics shrouds/bridges are as scarce as 3 legged ballerinas when it comes down to civilian sales. It's the other above referenced accounts regarding the LWTS that I haven't been able to validate.
I'm not having issues but was wondering if anyone has experienced any significant top rail wear on their chosen sweet spot or have witnessed wandering zero? I have ARMS dual throw levers on my RAPTOR/M16 & it's never been an issue; just curious about single throw levers with one recoil stop.
When I tried to do some research on the L-3 LWTS before committing to purchase, I heard a lot of erroneous anecdotes; some of which are enough to give you pause & others... well, you wind up scratching your head. Water-Proof/Resistant; Submersible to 66'? 3' for 30 minutes? The .mil unit is identical to the "unrestricted" civilian LWTS? "Restricted" .mil thermals are 640 x 512? An I/R LASER target designator function is contained within the .mil version's menu? Thermal tubes degrade from day one due to vacuum loss that eventually kills the sensor/detector? Thermals have a shelf life whether they are turned on or left off. One user even suggested that the thermal be kept in the refrigerator to extend its operational lifetime.
I do realize that thermals should never be pointed directly at the SUN, that their primary objective non glass lens is TOXIC, that batteries should NEVER be stored in the unit after the OP, the same rail positioning is essential for RTZ, while passive... they do radiate a detectable heat signature & that optics shrouds/bridges are as scarce as 3 legged ballerinas when it comes down to civilian sales. It's the other above referenced accounts regarding the LWTS that I haven't been able to validate.
Well said.. The LWTS flat out performs. I love running my Kahles 1-6. SkyPup loves his Elcan with his T70. I might have to pick up an Elcan, but I can't imagine it outperforming my Kahles.
TestnDoc, do you happen to know the focal length of the lens on the LWTS? Looking at pictures it is difficult to judge size in reference to the others that I've used. Now it's time to shop for a good DVR, this never ends!
It is my understanding that optics bridges/shrouds are constrained for the most part with regard to civilian consumption while .mil gets the "full kit" as illustrated in the Operator's Manual. While one might assume, judging from several distributor's website photos & descriptions of the L-3 LWTS "complete" kit of major components, that the CCO & RCO bridges are included. Apparently, this is not the case in current practice. Many of these sites don't even have them "in-stock" & projected wait times can range from several weeks to months. While the LWTS is available to qualified end-users, pecking order dictates just how complete the package is. I get the impression after talking to distributors & reading between the lines that the recreational civilian shooter is fortunate to even get the CCO optics bridge. I'm also hearing that the CCO will not be offered in the near future. After all, why does a civilian need to conceal his location from an ornery wild hog? It's not like the pigs are sophisticated enough to be using 3rd gen "starlight" NVDs & picking up on the signature light emission gap from clip-on configurations. For a weapon sight in the ballpark of $11K, I find this unacceptable. I don't find fault with the distribution chain but I do take issue with L-3 Warrior Systems.
So, I sent L-3 an email...
Hello L-3 WARRIOR SYSTEMS,
I recently purchased an L-3 LWTS thermal weapon sight serial # 0066X (manufactured: February, 2014) from Sierra Pacific Innovations Corporation. In the Operator’s Manual/section: “Preparation For Use”, it suggests verifying that all “Major Components” are present after opening the (sealed) soft case. 15 (Key) items are listed as major components; the following items are missing:
#8 Interface Hood
#10 Eyepiece Adapter Ring
#13 Interface Hood, Long
#14 Shroud, RCO
I would like to acquire these 4 items to complete the kit. If you do not have constraints imposed by higher priority contract obligations to other end-users, I would like to obtain item #14 Shroud, RCO at the very least. Please feel free to contact me either by phone or by e-mail at your earliest convenience. I occasionally perform demos at the Lake City Conservation Range & it would be appropriate to have a complete kit for the ROs to peruse.
Best Regards,
stymie
L-3's reply...
[email protected]
Good afternoon,
I am sorry but we are unable to send you a quote for the below items at this time.
Best Regards,
Amanda Antonico, RP
Well, that wasn't very helpful!
I have been told that the rubber shrouds & optics bridges are outsourced. I can't imagine that the supplier of these items is so burdened in meeting .mil demand that they couldn't ramp up production to better serve the civilian sector. It seems that they are not available at any price unless you have a .gov love letter & appropriate documentation.
The manual states that the LWTS is immersible to 1m for 2 hours despite some erroneous claims that tout 66' & that the unit is "combat ruggedized" to mitigate the shock factor in harsh environments. Thermal Imaging devices' Achille's Heel is in large part impact resistance & the LWTS is up to the task. It's similar to so-called 4th gen/filmless & Pinnacle "starlight" tubes that are better suited to monoculars rather than weapons that impart significant recoil.
I tried to get some feedback regarding the focal length of the LWTS as another member here had inquired, but I haven't been able to contact anyone privy to that bit of information.
I've had my LWTS for a little over 3 weeks & I am extremely pleased with the unit's performance & image clarity in both clip-on & stand-alone configurations. While these weapon sights are not inexpensive to acquire, they are state-of-the art & deliver the goods; definitely, a lot of bang for the buck. When I researched this product, I also took the established reputations of the sellers into account. Word of mouth from other end-users, my personal, past experience & that of acquaintances lead me to SPi, TNVC & Aurora Tactical among others. When investing in a high end tool, availability, price, customer service & product knowledge are paramount in making an informed choice.
So, I sent L-3 an email...
Hello L-3 WARRIOR SYSTEMS,
I recently purchased an L-3 LWTS thermal weapon sight serial # 0066X (manufactured: February, 2014) from Sierra Pacific Innovations Corporation. In the Operator’s Manual/section: “Preparation For Use”, it suggests verifying that all “Major Components” are present after opening the (sealed) soft case. 15 (Key) items are listed as major components; the following items are missing:
#8 Interface Hood
#10 Eyepiece Adapter Ring
#13 Interface Hood, Long
#14 Shroud, RCO
I would like to acquire these 4 items to complete the kit. If you do not have constraints imposed by higher priority contract obligations to other end-users, I would like to obtain item #14 Shroud, RCO at the very least. Please feel free to contact me either by phone or by e-mail at your earliest convenience. I occasionally perform demos at the Lake City Conservation Range & it would be appropriate to have a complete kit for the ROs to peruse.
Best Regards,
stymie
L-3's reply...
[email protected]
Good afternoon,
I am sorry but we are unable to send you a quote for the below items at this time.
Best Regards,
Amanda Antonico, RP
Well, that wasn't very helpful!
I have been told that the rubber shrouds & optics bridges are outsourced. I can't imagine that the supplier of these items is so burdened in meeting .mil demand that they couldn't ramp up production to better serve the civilian sector. It seems that they are not available at any price unless you have a .gov love letter & appropriate documentation.
The manual states that the LWTS is immersible to 1m for 2 hours despite some erroneous claims that tout 66' & that the unit is "combat ruggedized" to mitigate the shock factor in harsh environments. Thermal Imaging devices' Achille's Heel is in large part impact resistance & the LWTS is up to the task. It's similar to so-called 4th gen/filmless & Pinnacle "starlight" tubes that are better suited to monoculars rather than weapons that impart significant recoil.
I tried to get some feedback regarding the focal length of the LWTS as another member here had inquired, but I haven't been able to contact anyone privy to that bit of information.
I've had my LWTS for a little over 3 weeks & I am extremely pleased with the unit's performance & image clarity in both clip-on & stand-alone configurations. While these weapon sights are not inexpensive to acquire, they are state-of-the art & deliver the goods; definitely, a lot of bang for the buck. When I researched this product, I also took the established reputations of the sellers into account. Word of mouth from other end-users, my personal, past experience & that of acquaintances lead me to SPi, TNVC & Aurora Tactical among others. When investing in a high end tool, availability, price, customer service & product knowledge are paramount in making an informed choice.
Stymie.
The vendor I purchased mine through has had extensive contact with L3 to include customer svc mgr, civilian sales mgr and several others. One mgr said they were clearly not prepared or trained on the LWTS. We went back and forth and L3 clearly did not answer the questions satisfactorily. My vendor did, as I have copies of all the communications.
Allegedly the interface hood *short, and the RCO shroud should be available in 30 to 45 days from April 2. NO idea on the other two items. Of course no one has any real idea on a video output cord. The only people I have gotten any answer from is the vendor I bought it from.
I am very pleased with the actual LWTS. The viewing is exceptional. Too bad the marketing and total package is done poorly by L3. My support from Mod Armory has been great, it is just out of their hands.
The vendor I purchased mine through has had extensive contact with L3 to include customer svc mgr, civilian sales mgr and several others. One mgr said they were clearly not prepared or trained on the LWTS. We went back and forth and L3 clearly did not answer the questions satisfactorily. My vendor did, as I have copies of all the communications.
Allegedly the interface hood *short, and the RCO shroud should be available in 30 to 45 days from April 2. NO idea on the other two items. Of course no one has any real idea on a video output cord. The only people I have gotten any answer from is the vendor I bought it from.
I am very pleased with the actual LWTS. The viewing is exceptional. Too bad the marketing and total package is done poorly by L3. My support from Mod Armory has been great, it is just out of their hands.
Good to hear that someone is looking into this issue, not so good to hear how L3 is responding to the inquiries. My LWTS should be arriving next week (that's what I thought about this week though). It looks like I'll be using the beer bottle coozie for a bridge in the meantime.
Sir,
SPI corp Las Vegas has the video output cable for the L3 LWTS available now for sale.
Excellent! In another thread you guys mentioned that this cable would be free with the LWTS for those of us that purchased from you guys, does this still apply? Thanks!
SPi just so happens to have a nice waterproof DVR that would go well with that requisite cable. One thing leads to another. It's just never enough! Next on HOARDERS... speaking of which, I managed to finally snag a little stash of CCI MINI-MAG 40gr .22LR HV CPRN, my favorite rimfire ammo that seems to be an endangered species, anymore. It's like trying to find a 3 legged ballerina. EPA: LEAD BAD! MERCURY in CFLs, GOOD! Go figure.
Has anyone heard any further encouraging rumors as to when L-3 Warrior Systems will have shrouds & optics bridges available to Joe SixPack?
One thing that I've noticed about the LWTS & the battery cassette pack is that the "O" ringed cartridge MUST be snugged down pretty darn tight to function correctly. If you ever get less than the "full charge" 4 cell pictogram on new Lithium AAs, try tightening down the knob a bit more. I prefer finesse to force & moderation is in order. I would not want to break the threaded center retention shaft by being overzealous with torque. If the cover is just a little snug, your battery readout status will keep changing, but the performance is still excellent. You also want to keep moisture out of the battery compartment, obviously.
I've been playing with my new toy for 6 weeks, now. NO regrets! It's a superb tool & I would highly recommend it to others still on the fence. It's the best bang for the buck out there, IMHO. Not cheap... but NO disappointments, either.
I started another thread elsewhere regarding "riders" for home owner's insurance policies in the BEAR PIT FORUM. After over 3 decades of bundled policies with a certain major company with ONLY one claim regarding ICE STORM damage in 2002, the home office is starting to balk about "insuring" high end items that are firearm related. I submitted my PAID invoice with serial # along with a complete description immediately after receiving the unit. I suppose that it's a sign of the times, but I did get some good leads on alternate venues for properly insuring collectibles without losing an arm & a leg w/o having to chase down my "new" agent to list it. Not all are created equal. The anti-gun bias is beginning to show.
Here it is FWIW: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/bear-pit/251077-insurance-riders-firearms.html
Has anyone heard any further encouraging rumors as to when L-3 Warrior Systems will have shrouds & optics bridges available to Joe SixPack?
One thing that I've noticed about the LWTS & the battery cassette pack is that the "O" ringed cartridge MUST be snugged down pretty darn tight to function correctly. If you ever get less than the "full charge" 4 cell pictogram on new Lithium AAs, try tightening down the knob a bit more. I prefer finesse to force & moderation is in order. I would not want to break the threaded center retention shaft by being overzealous with torque. If the cover is just a little snug, your battery readout status will keep changing, but the performance is still excellent. You also want to keep moisture out of the battery compartment, obviously.
I've been playing with my new toy for 6 weeks, now. NO regrets! It's a superb tool & I would highly recommend it to others still on the fence. It's the best bang for the buck out there, IMHO. Not cheap... but NO disappointments, either.
I started another thread elsewhere regarding "riders" for home owner's insurance policies in the BEAR PIT FORUM. After over 3 decades of bundled policies with a certain major company with ONLY one claim regarding ICE STORM damage in 2002, the home office is starting to balk about "insuring" high end items that are firearm related. I submitted my PAID invoice with serial # along with a complete description immediately after receiving the unit. I suppose that it's a sign of the times, but I did get some good leads on alternate venues for properly insuring collectibles without losing an arm & a leg w/o having to chase down my "new" agent to list it. Not all are created equal. The anti-gun bias is beginning to show.
Here it is FWIW: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/bear-pit/251077-insurance-riders-firearms.html
The SPI DVR is the only waterproof mini DVR I know of, it is a nice kit and I have four of them and have been using them for years with excellent success @ 720X480 30fps NTSC:
To complete my LWTS kit, I wanted to obtain the following items (as shown in the owner's manual; each having a different SKU # to make things interesting):
#8 Interface Hood
#10 Eyepiece Adapter Ring
#13 Interface Hood, Long
#14 Shroud, RCO
I was informed by L-3's personnel that SPN-020-A1 EYEPIECE ADAPTER RING #10 & SPN-401-02 INTERFACE HOOD LONG #13 are NO longer produced.
Item #10 is key to using CQB-630-02 INTERFACE HOOD #8. The HOOD will be available in 2 months, but as the RING is no longer available, it cannot be attached.
That leaves TWB-544-01 SHROUD, RCO #14 which is finally available for $22.10 plus $12 S&H.
Should you decide that the RCO SHROUD is a "must have", contact:
Brenda Smith
Contracts Coordinator
L-3 Communications Corporation
Warrior Systems Division
9 Akira Way, Londonderry, NH 03053
Toll Free: 877-744-4802
Direct: 603-551-6037
[email protected]
Brenda has been a pleasure to deal with & very responsive to my inquiries. I received the RCO SHROUD via UPS this afternoon & it will satisfy the need to shield against extraneous light emission between my LWTS & ELCAN Specter D/R 1x/4x & Trijicon MGO 6x ACOG as well as other combos. The shorter CCO that came with my SPi kit works extremely well with the ELCAN, but you have to rock both the "stiff" CCO/LWTS clip-on with the Specter simultaneously on to the rail. That's a handful! The RCO will be useful for other applications. Improvising field expedient shrouds still have a lot of merit. The hard plastic/flexible polymer, thread-on RCO with shipping comes to $34.10. That might put some folks off, but I can live with it. The packaging was about the best I've ever encountered. The RCO was suspended in bubble wrap in an extremely sturdy cardboard box & all edges had an abundance of nylon reinforced tape assuring perfect delivery as if it were going to the International Space Station.
I placed the order one month ago & was pleased to find that that they were attentive to a civilian requisition for assistance. The novelty of having a sweet THERMAL such as the L-3 LWTS has not worn off & I feel that it offers the best bang for the buck out there.
#8 Interface Hood
#10 Eyepiece Adapter Ring
#13 Interface Hood, Long
#14 Shroud, RCO
I was informed by L-3's personnel that SPN-020-A1 EYEPIECE ADAPTER RING #10 & SPN-401-02 INTERFACE HOOD LONG #13 are NO longer produced.
Item #10 is key to using CQB-630-02 INTERFACE HOOD #8. The HOOD will be available in 2 months, but as the RING is no longer available, it cannot be attached.
That leaves TWB-544-01 SHROUD, RCO #14 which is finally available for $22.10 plus $12 S&H.
Should you decide that the RCO SHROUD is a "must have", contact:
Brenda Smith
Contracts Coordinator
L-3 Communications Corporation
Warrior Systems Division
9 Akira Way, Londonderry, NH 03053
Toll Free: 877-744-4802
Direct: 603-551-6037
[email protected]
Brenda has been a pleasure to deal with & very responsive to my inquiries. I received the RCO SHROUD via UPS this afternoon & it will satisfy the need to shield against extraneous light emission between my LWTS & ELCAN Specter D/R 1x/4x & Trijicon MGO 6x ACOG as well as other combos. The shorter CCO that came with my SPi kit works extremely well with the ELCAN, but you have to rock both the "stiff" CCO/LWTS clip-on with the Specter simultaneously on to the rail. That's a handful! The RCO will be useful for other applications. Improvising field expedient shrouds still have a lot of merit. The hard plastic/flexible polymer, thread-on RCO with shipping comes to $34.10. That might put some folks off, but I can live with it. The packaging was about the best I've ever encountered. The RCO was suspended in bubble wrap in an extremely sturdy cardboard box & all edges had an abundance of nylon reinforced tape assuring perfect delivery as if it were going to the International Space Station.
I placed the order one month ago & was pleased to find that that they were attentive to a civilian requisition for assistance. The novelty of having a sweet THERMAL such as the L-3 LWTS has not worn off & I feel that it offers the best bang for the buck out there.
Excellent! I will order the shroud in the AM. Did you ask her about the firmware update? I heard about that a couple of months ago, but not sure what improvements we would see.
Good morning, TestnDoc...
I didn't ask about firmware updates when I placed my order, so I can't comment. It's unfortunate that the eyepiece adapter ring is no longer available. Apparently, there wasn't sufficient demand for some of the "out-sourced" items in the "complete kit" to warrant production of optics bridges/shrouds/contingent components for daytime optics other than the ubiquitous Trijicon ACOG & ELCAN Specter.
Between the time I received the L-3 LWTS from SPi & got confirmation on parts availability & ordering status from L-3, I communicated with 4 associates of Warrior Systems. All I can say is that persistence eventually pays off & good luck. The RCO bridge should be in-stock at this time & I would suggest that if other members want one, now is the time to place your order.
I didn't ask about firmware updates when I placed my order, so I can't comment. It's unfortunate that the eyepiece adapter ring is no longer available. Apparently, there wasn't sufficient demand for some of the "out-sourced" items in the "complete kit" to warrant production of optics bridges/shrouds/contingent components for daytime optics other than the ubiquitous Trijicon ACOG & ELCAN Specter.
Between the time I received the L-3 LWTS from SPi & got confirmation on parts availability & ordering status from L-3, I communicated with 4 associates of Warrior Systems. All I can say is that persistence eventually pays off & good luck. The RCO bridge should be in-stock at this time & I would suggest that if other members want one, now is the time to place your order.
For the RCO, they referred me to TNVC, but no one seemed to know if it was in stock. I was told that the firmware update was for improved bore sighting and performance, so I got an RMA and shipped the LWTS out today. Excellent and super fast customer service from L3.
Did you happen to note what software and firmware version you had before shipping out? I'm curious as I'd like to confirm that mine has the upgrade. The software and firmware versions are viewable in one of the menus.
Negative. Mine was purchased the first of the year, so my unit was eligible for the update. L3 strongly advised to get it..when I get it back I will post up the version.
TestnDoc...
I'm a bit puzzled as to why L-3 passed the buck on to TNVC for the RCO bridge acquisition as L-3 had this item in stock at the time of my post. I may have just gotten lucky after my 4th attempt & somehow managed to snag someone with follow up skills.
If I were to take a wild guess as to a software update... it might have something to do with reducing the "hang time" of the auto shuttered recalibration mode to avoid significant target image shift.
I'm definitely curious as to what the upgrade entails & I'm looking forward to your response. I hope that the process goes smoothly without unwanted glitches.
I'm a bit puzzled as to why L-3 passed the buck on to TNVC for the RCO bridge acquisition as L-3 had this item in stock at the time of my post. I may have just gotten lucky after my 4th attempt & somehow managed to snag someone with follow up skills.
If I were to take a wild guess as to a software update... it might have something to do with reducing the "hang time" of the auto shuttered recalibration mode to avoid significant target image shift.
I'm definitely curious as to what the upgrade entails & I'm looking forward to your response. I hope that the process goes smoothly without unwanted glitches.
We were too, as we were told from other customers these items were somehow restricted so we placed the order for them which are not restricted. We have the following parts arriving this week direct from L3 for others looking for these parts.
Battery Carrier Assembly
Cover, Objective
DVO Hood, ACOG
DVO Hood, M68
Shuttered Eyeguard Assy.
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Stymie,
I have the email from L3 saying to contact TNVC, which I did, but nothing was in stock. L3 got my thermal today, and should be shipping it back in a day or so.
Vic,
That's good news. I am awaiting an email from Teddy on the items. Hopefully soon!
I have the email from L3 saying to contact TNVC, which I did, but nothing was in stock. L3 got my thermal today, and should be shipping it back in a day or so.
Vic,
That's good news. I am awaiting an email from Teddy on the items. Hopefully soon!
Thanks Victor for your reply!
My L-3 LWTS "kit" came with all the components that you referenced with ONE exception:
-Battery Carrier Assembly/4 position AA Cassette Cartridge with lid (spare)
-Cover, Objective
-DVO Hood, M68 aka CCO
-Shuttered Eyeguard Assembly
BUT NOT the DVO Hood, ACOG aka RCO, SKU: TWB-544-01, which I received, recently.
Are you aware of a cut-off date/serial # range of LWTS units for the software/firmware update/upgrade & what it entails?
Best Regards,
John
My L-3 LWTS "kit" came with all the components that you referenced with ONE exception:
-Battery Carrier Assembly/4 position AA Cassette Cartridge with lid (spare)
-Cover, Objective
-DVO Hood, M68 aka CCO
-Shuttered Eyeguard Assembly
BUT NOT the DVO Hood, ACOG aka RCO, SKU: TWB-544-01, which I received, recently.
Are you aware of a cut-off date/serial # range of LWTS units for the software/firmware update/upgrade & what it entails?
Best Regards,
John
Saw the invoice from L3 today that they shipped the goods last week 8/13 UPS GROUND, we placed that order a few months ago when we heard folks were having difficulties getting parts, some of which after spending 10K+ should have been included . We let them know that too.
Unless the brown truck gets stuck in a storm, we should be seeing this by weeks end.
Vic
Mine will be going in soon as well to get the update. It's odd that SPI told me the reason my scope's delivery was delayed by TWO MONTHS was due to them having to return it to L3 for the update. Keep in mind, this was after I was told the product was IN STOCK READY TO SHIP after asking numerous times when I ordered in April. I told them that I would be happy to wait for the latest version. After some communication w/ L3 this week, it appears that the scope was never updated. I had given them (SPI) the benefit of the doubt since I figure the situation (L3 software update) was beyond their control. Now I begin to wonder... Was the unit ever sent in for update? Also, they made an offer in March here on the hide to provide a free video cable to those who purchased an LWTS through them. I ordered in early April mentioning that ad and NO VIDEO CABLE WAS PROVIDED when the unit was finally shipped two months later. After several emails asking them to make good on the offer, they merely edited the post to cancel it. For those interested in the original post, I saved the entire page after they failed to return two consecutive emails after two weeks. It's not impossible that this was one big misunderstanding, but wow
1. It's a high dollar item
2. "In stock item" in early April that ships in late June? Cited delay is software update that required the unit be returned to the manufacturer... turns out no such update was ever applied. (Also, I will now be incurring the cost of shipping a $10k device back to its origin for something that was already supposed to have been done by SPI)
3. Offered free video cable (part of the reason I decided to go w/ SPI), then decided this wasn't going to happen w/o notifying pre-paid customers. Subsequently offered this wonderful piece for $400. LMFAO, really?
SPI, if this was a big misunderstanding I'd love to hear your side, heaven knows you didn't respond to the last three emails sent in June/July. For the love of God, when voting w/ that amount of money I would like a little bit more follow through than what you have shown.
1. It's a high dollar item
2. "In stock item" in early April that ships in late June? Cited delay is software update that required the unit be returned to the manufacturer... turns out no such update was ever applied. (Also, I will now be incurring the cost of shipping a $10k device back to its origin for something that was already supposed to have been done by SPI)
3. Offered free video cable (part of the reason I decided to go w/ SPI), then decided this wasn't going to happen w/o notifying pre-paid customers. Subsequently offered this wonderful piece for $400. LMFAO, really?
SPI, if this was a big misunderstanding I'd love to hear your side, heaven knows you didn't respond to the last three emails sent in June/July. For the love of God, when voting w/ that amount of money I would like a little bit more follow through than what you have shown.
I didn't want to edit my original post a little bit ago because I'd hate for anyone to think I have changed my mind AT ALL for ANY purpose other than to inform other prospective buyers. I spend a ton of money each year on optics (mostly NV related). Still this large purchase was made because SPI had the best price. TNVC's price was only about $100 more after shipping and I honestly wish I had just done that. I have dealt w/ TNVC numerous times over the last seven years and I have a feeling this would've maybe been handled better by them or another vendor. Lesson learned.
I have had nothing but excellent experiences with SPI, having bought a T50, T60 and an L3 LWTS from them. I hope you get prompt resolution to your concerns.
And from what you purchased TestDoc, you should get excellent service !! We all have our vendors we get excellent service from. I called SPI prepared to make a purchase. The first thing they said was did you buy from us, We take care of our current customers first, I would do the same thing as they are, only I would not say it on the phone to a potential new customer.
It did turn me away and I went elsewhere.
The bottom line is that L3 really does not care about the civilian market. Their Govt contracts keep them very busy, so that is their emphasis. If one of the vendors has an in with them then good. I have talked to the folks up north several times and while they are very courteous they provide no help so far. Some on here apparently have had better luck.
It did turn me away and I went elsewhere.
The bottom line is that L3 really does not care about the civilian market. Their Govt contracts keep them very busy, so that is their emphasis. If one of the vendors has an in with them then good. I have talked to the folks up north several times and while they are very courteous they provide no help so far. Some on here apparently have had better luck.
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