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Ladder Test, real or Imagined
- Thread starter Lumpybrass
- Start date
Unless your in a hurry then you go dry and don’t care where the load lands and will get back to it later
I hear that's what happens when you load improperly and don't use the fundamentals.
Also doesn't do anything for your spread.
Stupid question time: what's wrong with shooting ladders with a gas gun?
Just neck tension. I usually do .002" neck tension.
The problem is nobody here has any accomplishments and none of you can respond to the original poster so you start a flaming war with the only poster who can.
Not knowing is alright being proud of it is ridiculous.
You simply have nothing to offer and get affended when someone else does.
I don't want to call you all beaches but the shoe does fit.
I'm not offended by anything. I guess I could be a giant douche and point out I won an event at a state trap shoot as a junior ??? oh wait I don't even care. Why don't you go ahead and mention the only reason you won the event you are so proud of is because it was stopped early... You leave that part out for a reason?
Bradu
I doubt you have won anything real or imagined.
And the event I am most proud of winning was a chess game with a pigeon and it wasn't ended early.
You can't do a Ladder Test can you?
Can you help Skookum figure out what a node is?
Do you shoot trap? If you did the pictures would show you what a perfect score is and the buckles are actually boring.
You don't win at trap either do you?
But Thank You for pointing out that I have won many matches at various disciplines have YOU?
And you haven't mentioned Rimfire or Unlimited range shooting yet so keep searching Google.
I doubt you have won anything real or imagined.
And the event I am most proud of winning was a chess game with a pigeon and it wasn't ended early.
You can't do a Ladder Test can you?
Can you help Skookum figure out what a node is?
Do you shoot trap? If you did the pictures would show you what a perfect score is and the buckles are actually boring.
You don't win at trap either do you?
But Thank You for pointing out that I have won many matches at various disciplines have YOU?
And you haven't mentioned Rimfire or Unlimited range shooting yet so keep searching Google.
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D
Deleted member 10043
Guest
You ask us to Google you personally. I don't know why I did it but this is all I can find. In the real world you would have been fired. What I can't figure out is are you Lynn Sr. on the world record certificate or Lynn Jr per your user ID?
https://about.usps.com/who-we-are/judicial/admin-decisions/2018/dca-16-205_dca-16-206_fd.htm
https://www.leagle.com/decision/infdco20180406b13
https://about.usps.com/who-we-are/judicial/admin-decisions/2018/dca-16-205_dca-16-206_fd.htm
https://www.leagle.com/decision/infdco20180406b13
And of course you would be wrong yet again. Not fired and Jr but then again you can't do a ladder test so I didn't figure you could achieve much.
In a nutshell we have me winning big matches. Loading ammo that won big matches. Winning at trap and knowing how to do a Ladder Test.
Then we have Culpeper Skokum Milo 2.5 and Bradu who haven't won done or know anything.
Keep looking but use Rimfire and unlimited range in your search next or have your mommy help you.
I found your picture.
In a nutshell we have me winning big matches. Loading ammo that won big matches. Winning at trap and knowing how to do a Ladder Test.
Then we have Culpeper Skokum Milo 2.5 and Bradu who haven't won done or know anything.
Keep looking but use Rimfire and unlimited range in your search next or have your mommy help you.
I found your picture.
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D
Deleted member 10043
Guest
Why would you post your father's world record in such a manner as to take credit for it. You pretty much lost your credibility here. Stealing your father's honor to prove a point in an Internet forum. I feel like I need to take another shower. Not to mention your frivolous use of filing grievances and stealing from your employer funded in part by the taxpayer. I'm sure this only a very small part of your history of not being able to get along with others. But your father's world record, really. Was it worth it. You need to delete that post, apologize to your father, and to the group. If it is still up later I'm going to quote it so it is saved where you can't delete it.
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Culpeper
It's not your fault you have no reading comprehension it's an endictment of the American education system.
You are simply not bright enough to read the post.
I loaded the ammo that shot the record because the shooter could shoot well but couldn't reload well. Milo 2.5 has been loading for decades and can't do a ladder test without buffing shots.
You on the other hand can't do either. You can't shoot or reload.
But your picture was nice.
It may be better just hitting ignore on this twat. I worked with a guy who acted like this, tough 8 yrs, we are letting him rent space in our heads. We do not know how to shoot a ladder, yet he has not explained the benefits of one, lol
We did get to some pics of some gay ass looking rifles though, made it all worth this.
The benefit is my groups are smaller than yours.
My guns have set world records.
My guns have been published by others who know what they are talking about.
My guns shoot screamer patches and win national titles.
You win nothing don't know how to reload and haven't figured out a 80 year old reloading technique.
And anybody here can go back and read the first two pages then compare it with a quick Google search to show you guys are completely lost.
Put Varmint Al and Dr Geoffrey Kolbe in a Google search then put Milo 2.5 Bradu 918V Snookums Culpeper on your ignore list.
There advice is hurting your accuracy.
As to renting space in your heads there is plenty of it for rent.
The benefit is my groups are smaller than yours.
My guns have set world records.
My guns have been published by others who know what they are talking about.
My guns shoot screamer patches and win national titles.
You win nothing don't know how to reload and haven't figured out a 80 year old reloading technique.
And anybody here can go back and read the first two pages then compare it with a quick Google search to show you guys are completely lost.
Put Varmint Al and Dr Geoffrey Kolbe in a Google search then put Milo 2.5 Bradu 918V Snookums Culpeper on your ignore list.
There advice is hurting your accuracy.
As to renting space in your heads there is plenty of it for rent.
Please see Milo2.5's post #135.
It takes a real special kind of douche bag to get me to put someone on ignore......... Bye. Bye.
Corndog
Put me on ignore but keeps posting gotta love the stupidity.
Culpeper
Are you saying I only posted my father's world record or I haven't shot any of my own?
I ask because your answer is going to make you look even sillier than before if that's even possible?
Put me on ignore but keeps posting gotta love the stupidity.
Culpeper
Are you saying I only posted my father's world record or I haven't shot any of my own?
I ask because your answer is going to make you look even sillier than before if that's even possible?
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I've never done it either but this this has to be one of the dumbest cocksuckers I've ever dealt with. When you have to go around showing pictures of what you accomplished then apparently you aren't anywhere near as fucking good as you think you are. Nothing like keep posting the same picture of a trophy you won because the match was called early ??? My post about the trap shoot was me making fun of the dumb mother fucker bringing up something that happened 20 years ago lol
The benefit is my groups are smaller than yours.
My guns have set world records.
My guns have been published by others who know what they are talking about.
My guns shoot screamer patches and win national titles.
You win nothing don't know how to reload and haven't figured out a 80 year old reloading technique.
And anybody here can go back and read the first two pages then compare it with a quick Google search to show you guys are completely lost.
Put Varmint Al and Dr Geoffrey Kolbe in a Google search then put Milo 2.5 Bradu 918V Snookums Culpeper on your ignore list.
There advice is hurting your accuracy.
As to renting space in your heads there is plenty of it for rent.
I'm fortunate enough to live 15 minutes from spots I can do ladder testing so it's not that big of a deal to me. I can see where trying ladder testing when someone has to travel or deal with other inconveniences makes it too much of a hassle.
OCW then, I think if one can derive their optimum charge weight within a 10th either way then that's fine for our purposes.
It's been posed that a ladder can be tuned for one distance, and I believe that to be true, but even though it's tuned for that one distance the vertical is still tight at other distances. For example, I saw pics of 10th's of a grain differences done at 1000Y by a top long range BR competitor. Were talking a bit over an inch vertical for 3 shots in the sweet spot vs 2-2.5" vertical for a 10th under and a 10th over. I can't imagine the vertical getting unacceptable for "us" from one distance to another?! In my own experience the vertical was exceptional at other distances once I found the node at 400Y.
It was posed that when one did ladder testing and changed the seating depth later that the info achieved during the ladder testing wouldn't correlate anymore thus invalidating the info, but wouldn't that also be the case for OCW too if the seating depth was changed??
Some bullet brands or types are just harder to tune in than others, and keep tuned as well. The most frustrating bullet I've had tune wise was the 6mm cal 115 gr Berger vld, shoots great for a while until the throat is worn another 10 thou or so, then the groups are 1 moa, that happened to me every 300-400 rounds - PITA. Since the Berger hybrid came out it's been a hard bullet to get away from. That good enough thing I mention... I don't have much reason to change the seating depth from .002" off the lands, they just do well there and that's with multiple rifles and calibers. Plus it takes a long time before one needs to retune depth. I hate how expensive they are but....
On the other hand my 6mmFatRat hates them! I was close to sending the upper back but tried the 95gr SMK, instant success.
^^^^ Sometimes, although rare, a change in powder or bullet will make a rifle group, that can be frustrating all the work and components expended to find out if it will! Been there too.
I did both one time, ladder and OCW, when there was a similar debate years ago. The high node for both correlated but the low node didn't. One thing is for sure, I found the high node! Even doing it both ways I only shot 60 rounds or so. I did 3 shot groups with the OCW.
BTW I do ladders off the bipod mostly. I've done it with a 3" wide sled attached to the rifle off a Farley joystick rest as well.
I think it'd be cool if all these load workup methods could be done together in controlled studies.
OCW then, I think if one can derive their optimum charge weight within a 10th either way then that's fine for our purposes.
It's been posed that a ladder can be tuned for one distance, and I believe that to be true, but even though it's tuned for that one distance the vertical is still tight at other distances. For example, I saw pics of 10th's of a grain differences done at 1000Y by a top long range BR competitor. Were talking a bit over an inch vertical for 3 shots in the sweet spot vs 2-2.5" vertical for a 10th under and a 10th over. I can't imagine the vertical getting unacceptable for "us" from one distance to another?! In my own experience the vertical was exceptional at other distances once I found the node at 400Y.
It was posed that when one did ladder testing and changed the seating depth later that the info achieved during the ladder testing wouldn't correlate anymore thus invalidating the info, but wouldn't that also be the case for OCW too if the seating depth was changed??
Some bullet brands or types are just harder to tune in than others, and keep tuned as well. The most frustrating bullet I've had tune wise was the 6mm cal 115 gr Berger vld, shoots great for a while until the throat is worn another 10 thou or so, then the groups are 1 moa, that happened to me every 300-400 rounds - PITA. Since the Berger hybrid came out it's been a hard bullet to get away from. That good enough thing I mention... I don't have much reason to change the seating depth from .002" off the lands, they just do well there and that's with multiple rifles and calibers. Plus it takes a long time before one needs to retune depth. I hate how expensive they are but....
On the other hand my 6mmFatRat hates them! I was close to sending the upper back but tried the 95gr SMK, instant success.
^^^^ Sometimes, although rare, a change in powder or bullet will make a rifle group, that can be frustrating all the work and components expended to find out if it will! Been there too.
I did both one time, ladder and OCW, when there was a similar debate years ago. The high node for both correlated but the low node didn't. One thing is for sure, I found the high node! Even doing it both ways I only shot 60 rounds or so. I did 3 shot groups with the OCW.
BTW I do ladders off the bipod mostly. I've done it with a 3" wide sled attached to the rifle off a Farley joystick rest as well.
I think it'd be cool if all these load workup methods could be done together in controlled studies.
Sorry lynn, I don’t know who you are and I’m glad you have medals. But all I have learned from you here is that I’m not good enough and my equipment isn’t good enough. You didn’t explain your reasoning. I am very new to this but what I get is by the pictures, your rifle sits on a table in rests and you don’t physically hold or adjust the rifle by body movement other than turning an adjuster.
That’s fine with me, I am learning from these guys more than I have from you. You have told me what you have done or what others have talked about you but I haven’t learned anything from you about an OCW or ladder other than me and my equipment aren’t up to the task. I’m sorry I have other things going on in my life I don’t get to sit and play with an obviously unrealistic firearm that you can’t buy you have to build from the ground up and that doesnt sound like fun to me, I’m glad you enjoy it.
I just want to figure reloading out and hit targets at 1000 yards or farther with ease, if possible, that’s the fun for me, probably won’t even shoot in an actual match because if I ran into someone like you that was that condescending I would probably leave and not finish. You can’t learn from someone with the attitude you have had in this thread. You literally gave no actual advice other than go read these articles that other people have written and mention me.
I’m not trying the be a prick but that’s the way it sounds.
Good day.
That’s fine with me, I am learning from these guys more than I have from you. You have told me what you have done or what others have talked about you but I haven’t learned anything from you about an OCW or ladder other than me and my equipment aren’t up to the task. I’m sorry I have other things going on in my life I don’t get to sit and play with an obviously unrealistic firearm that you can’t buy you have to build from the ground up and that doesnt sound like fun to me, I’m glad you enjoy it.
I just want to figure reloading out and hit targets at 1000 yards or farther with ease, if possible, that’s the fun for me, probably won’t even shoot in an actual match because if I ran into someone like you that was that condescending I would probably leave and not finish. You can’t learn from someone with the attitude you have had in this thread. You literally gave no actual advice other than go read these articles that other people have written and mention me.
I’m not trying the be a prick but that’s the way it sounds.
Good day.
Apperantly those doing load development on this forum can't shoot as good as those doing load development on a hunting rifle
Yellowfever440
All you will get from doing a proper ladder test is your powder charge
You still need to do case prep seating depth and primer tuning like you do using any other method.
You don't need a Benchrest rifle to do a ladder test and the test was developed for military rifles many many years ago.
You don't know that because the childish morons here post myths and know very little about reloading.
I use the ladder test for my hunting rifles and they shoot smaller groups than what the sniper wannabes here get with there customs.
I also hold monthly 2000 yard matches and those in attendance shoot mostly prone off of bipods.
What you are witnessing here is someone stepped into there tiny litter box and the big pussies here who can't answer the questions got there tiny minds offended when someone else can.
Put those without match wins on your ignore list and you will cut through the BS much faster.
I really want to get one of Adams shot markers. Have it lined up so that when I shoot a ladder at 600 that it passes through the shot marker at 100 only without a target installed, basically just the window frame. Its electronic so you could digitally capture and separate out the shots for each charge weight to correlate them to the paper at 600. You could shoot enough ladders at 600 to allow for an ocw type comparison at each distance with the series just being individual ladders stacked or not.
Those two working in concert along with the labradar would provide an awful lot of data that could be compared straight up at simultaneous distances.
my buddy has this and ive suggested setting this up...dont think hes done it yet and its 2.5 hrs from me so i havent had time to run down and try it out
would be interesting
My only hold up is paying 800 bucks for a target... I can only justify so much over a period of time. Maybe after a couple months of not buying something Ill get a wild hair and jump on board. I really want to see someone else do it.
Lynn,
There is no doubt that you know how to reload..
This is the exact stuff I mentioned will NOT raise anyones opinion of you or anyone else around here. Posting the same pictures you post on calguns, isn't going to gain respect, it is kinda consider low class/brow.
There are a lot of guys on this site who have won a lot of matches, some won their lives, others won the lives of others, guys who shot ELR or trained others even before it was much of a thing, guys who trained the guys above and a few have done it all. They don't post all their match winnings, number of lives saved or anything that along the road you are going down. They gain respect by their actions, the information they share and when we travel and meet at matches, training or industry events. The best easily will squad with the newest and you might not even know who they are..
edit sorry, posting via Siri is a bitch
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Diver
I have shot with many shooters on this website and they send me emails about what goes on here.
As I actually have a full time job I only post when one of them brings something to my attention.
Trophies are what you receive when you win matches so they can deal with there jealousy issues or seek medical help.
I have shot with many shooters on this website and they send me emails about what goes on here.
As I actually have a full time job I only post when one of them brings something to my attention.
Trophies are what you receive when you win matches so they can deal with there jealousy issues or seek medical help.
So you mention this charge weight only for ladder, I understand that. I have a question that relates to the Op then. If you do this for charges weight how many shots would assume after this?
So 10 for charge weight then a few for seating depth and then a few for different primers?
Just my noob thought here, can’t you have different seating depth and primer combinations that work as well?
I think I’m pretty sure I know of the couple of guys on this site you’re referring to.
I think you completely missed the point.
That's an interesting idea. I seen a guy at the range with one of these but I didn't know what exactly it was until I went home and looked it up. Pretty cool tool but as you said, it is a lot of money to spend for something that would be for load development only in my situation.
Diver
I seriously doubt you know of any of the guys I am talking about.
And none of them post on CalGuns.
You can have many different combinations which is why the best shooters use up alot of barrels. Once you find the combination it doesn't change from barrel to barrel like you will often times see posted here.
If my load is 33.5 grains of RE15 and my seating depth with 0.0104 freebore comes out to 2.510 inches it doesn't matter if I am shooting Kreiger Bartlein Hart Douglas Shilen Brux Lilja Broughton or any other brand.
Your future load development is extremely limited.
Also once a barrel is shot out you can still use it for load development. Let's say it is a total tomato stake and the gun is shooting 1/2 inch groups.
You would develop the load to 1/2 inch then transfer it over to the new barrel where it will now shoot as expected with only minor tweaking.
As to the round count it is the same as all other methods except for powder charge.
Ok the you are only saving powder charge rounds. Thank you that’s what I was wondering and wanting to know.
How many yards should the ladder test be done at, I have read at least 300, is that enough or would you want to go farther.
How many yards should the ladder test be done at, I have read at least 300, is that enough or would you want to go farther.
D
Deleted member 113831
Guest
Pissing off your boss and filing lawsuits it appears.
You seem to make friends wherever you go.
I also find there isn’t much difference in the loads between my barrels if the same reamer is used, but again, I am not looking for benchrest accuracy.
This is the charge weight as shot by my other barrels - the barrel had more rounds that it ever should have had and was shot out. Then it was then cut back 4” but the same reamer was used.
This was the first group shot after 3 for zeroing at 100.. it is not benchrest good, shot off a bipod— but to the point the load didn’t change even though the speed did.
I’ve only shot 8 rounds through it, so who knows— I am sure other groups will be bigger, but they still will be small enough to get what I want done.
