Law Enforcement "Patrol Designated Marksman Program"

[WindstormSCR]

Qualified immunity is a false target. Basically it only protects as long as you are functioning within the bounds of the law, reasonableness and your training.

That might have been the intent, but how it actually works is "was there a federal court ruling in this circuit/surpeme court that gives precedent that this is wrong? no? ok fuck you I can do it with impunity"

state level has similar issues, but the only court that can deal with the monstrosity qualified immunity has become at the federal level is SCOTUS

"The Supreme Court created qualified immunity in 1982. With that novel invention, the court granted all government officials immunity for violating constitutional and civil rights unless the victims of those violations can show that the rights were “clearly established.” Although innocuous sounding, the clearly established test is a legal obstacle nearly impossible to overcome. It requires a victim to identify an earlier decision by the Supreme Court, or a federal appeals court in the same jurisdiction holding that precisely the same conduct under the same circumstances is illegal or unconstitutional. If none exists, the official is immune. Whether the official’s actions are unconstitutional, intentional or malicious is irrelevant to the test."

courts have granted qualified immunity to:

►Officers who stole $225,000.
►A cop who shot a 10-year-old while trying to shoot a nonthreatening family dog.
►Prison officials who locked an inmate in a sewage-flooded cell for days.
►SWAT team members who fired gas grenades into an innocent woman’s empty home.
►Medical board officials who rifled through a doctor’s client files without a warrant.
►County officials who held a 14-year-old in pretrial solitary confinement for over a month.
►A cop who body-slammed a 5-foot-tall woman for walking away from him.
►Police who picked up a mentally infirmed man, drove him to the county line and dropped him off at dusk along the highway, where he was later struck and killed by a motorist.

Civil Asset Forfeiture is self-explanatory, seizure of property without due process in violation of the 4th amendment

 

[pmclaine]

Did it protect the uvalde officers from being sued for willfully neglecting the lives of children? Honestly curious. I understand the predicament, as we are in a very litigious society, just wondering if the issue is not as simple as you put it.

My iPad sucks in that sometimes when I hit backspace it will become a run away gun and start to erase my whole message. The perils of using your device for porn hub instead of just serious stuff like snipers hide.

No QI shouldn't protect from failure to serve or dereliction of duty.

Unbuckle your duty belt and walk away if you can't do the job or refuse to follow the unlawful order to deny service.

Applying QI was govt ass covering corruptions.....see my comment on Athens Georgia.

The Supreme Court ruling on no duty to protect is horse shit because it's implications are that no govt function has a duty to do anything. It negates the whole concept of why we have govt to provide for the public good.

See Chinese spy balloon.


Edit added - Athens GA should be Athens TN. I've got GA on my mind.

 

[tomme boy]

Here i an issue from a friend about QI. He was driving down the hiway and a Sherriff deputy runs a stop sign. My friend t-bones the Deputy. He had no lights or sirens on when it happened. This was in a 45mph zone. The truck my friend was driving was involved in one of the drag racing shows on TV. He had 12 cameras on and in the truck. Totals the truck. Sherriff and this deputy show up at the hospital to investigate the incident. They know the deputy is screwed as all the cameras caught him running the stop sign. They ADMITT! the accident was the deputies fault and say they will get everything taken care of.

6 months later it is in the courts and qi is applied and he can not get 1 PENNY as there is some loop hole that says the dept does not have to pay any damages that an officer does in his normal duties as a LEO. He was out over $70K or his own insurance company was.

It is not only the law enforcement this needs to go away. Any gov't employee it needs to go away. And Judges needs their Absolute Immunity needs to go also along with politicians.

 

[paulo_santos]

@paulo_santos I purposely didn’t respond to you earlier as I was trying to avoid this going down the rabbit hole earlier but sounds like that already happened lol.

So with that being the case…

Don’t paint us all with the same broad brush strokes you are complaining about yourself. Not all of us are scorched earth, ACAB chanting anarchists. I don’t have a problem with every single officer out there, however I have a major issue with the institution of policing in this country. Respectfully, we are not on the same side, and will never be until these issues are fixed. It’s easy to sit back and blame the media (not all of us watch the news and are able to form our own opinions) and deflect the actual issues onto anyone other than yourselves.

You say that “we won’t enforce any unconstitutional laws” but yet it happens every day. It’s easy to say you won’t, and you’ll forgive me if I don’t believe a sherif who depends on votes says something that his voters wants to hear. Yet those same sheriffs still enforce the unconstitutional laws already in the books. I call bullshit when that same sheriff enforces a state law requiring me to get a “permission slip” from him so I can simply purchase a handgun. Recent history shows us that police will enforce the laws, no matter how constitutional they are. I don’t hate cops, and it isn’t personal to any single cop. I realize there are good and bad, but there are enough bad ones to make the whole institution bad. You personally may be one of the good ones (I don’t know you). I want them to be successful and to regain the trust, but that’s obviously not the direction we are going in. I’ll wait for that action because we’ve been hearing that you’re on our side and that y’all won’t enforce those laws for quite some time now, and the actions show us otherwise.

I would encourage all law enforcement to not get immediately offended when there is discourse, and actually listen to what’s being said. We keep hearing the same excuses and the amount of people buying them is decreasing by the day.

Again, I sincerely wish you the best, and my words are not personal to you specific.

I can respect that.

 

[paulo_santos]

Here is one way to find out if a LEO of any type believes in the oath they took or it was just something they had to say to get the badge. Did you or your dept enforce any of the covid rules? If you did then that means you will confiscate the firearms when it comes time to do so. And do you think your police station and the property it sits on is private property?

You can weed out a lot of people with these 2 simple ?'s. We need law enforcement. We don't need the true Sovern Citizens. And that is why qualified immunity needs to be abolished. And at the same time people need to go back in front of a judge before they can be arrested.

Here is the crazy part. Here in NJ, none of the PD’s were forced to get vaccinated nor did we enforce anything like the officers in states like Washington had to go through. I thought because NJ is so messed up that we were going to get screwed, but we didn’t.

 

[paulo_santos]

Here i an issue from a friend about QI. He was driving down the hiway and a Sherriff deputy runs a stop sign. My friend t-bones the Deputy. He had no lights or sirens on when it happened. This was in a 45mph zone. The truck my friend was driving was involved in one of the drag racing shows on TV. He had 12 cameras on and in the truck. Totals the truck. Sherriff and this deputy show up at the hospital to investigate the incident. They know the deputy is screwed as all the cameras caught him running the stop sign. They ADMITT! the accident was the deputies fault and say they will get everything taken care of.

6 months later it is in the courts and qi is applied and he can not get 1 PENNY as there is some loop hole that says the dept does not have to pay any damages that an officer does in his normal duties as a LEO. He was out over $70K or his own insurance company was.

It is not only the law enforcement this needs to go away. Any gov't employee it needs to go away. And Judges needs their Absolute Immunity needs to go also along with politicians.

That’s insane. Here in NJ, the city’s insurance would have paid everything. In an incident where it was an honest accident, the city will pay. But if it was an incident where the officer was drunk or intoxicated or being reckless, the city’s insurance would still pay and the officer would be fired.

 

[nagantguy]

Qualified immunity is a false target. Basically it only protects as long as you are functioning within the bounds of the law, reasonableness and your training.

Because laws are written in legalese by lawyers there is a ton of bullshit and interpretation.

It's only intent is to protect you from the civil suits where someone wants to sue you for issuing a speeding ticket. The courts say "No. He was operating within the color of the law per his sworn duty. Prove his violation of your rights or take your case against the state to prove the unlawfulness of the law."

Qualified immunity can not be blamed for cases where it's application is used in an unintended manner. That's corruption and the people of Athens Georgia had the answer to that.

Now if you want to go after "immunity" go after our politicians that mandate shit telling you straight up when you complain about constitutionality "Fuck you. Sue me!"

They know full wełl the cost of that. They know full well if their mandate is reversed the tax payer will bear the costs. They know full well their personal finances will never suffer due their malfeasance.

If I were ever suing my state and won I want to ask in open court Why is the tax payer on the hook. Why isn't the politician that acted unconstitutionally financially liable?

A lot of these tyrants would be more reasonable if their holdings were at risk as much as a cops with qualified immunity.

Instead politicians get full immunity.

I don’t think you e a full grasp or understanding of qualified immunity- and it is a fair and in fact the main target to “get us all back to being on the same side “.
Mind blowing fudd stuff when someone can say with a straight face “yep we can steal your stuff with no evidence and no crime and no charges - and when you prove it’s yours and we decide to give it back, when and if you still can’t sue us cause qualified immunity “. Anyone who’s spent 13 minutes on YouTube watching qualified immunity and civil asset forfeiture tutorials can claim bullshit that those two things aren’t a problem and what sets “hero’s” above the peon .

 

[jb0311]

Any gov't employee it needs to go away.

You may not be suggesting this, but most .govs don't have QI unless you are strictly talking law enforcement. When i was working for the feds as a biologist/ecologist, my supervisors had to pay for their own liability insurance out of pocket due to how sue-happy our country is. Even the wildlife officer had his own insurance. Just wanted to clarify in case there was any confusion there.

 

[jb0311]

That’s insane. Here in NJ, the city’s insurance taxpayers would have paid everything. In an incident where it was an honest accident, the city taxpayer will pay. But if it was an incident where the officer was drunk or intoxicated or being reckless, the city’s insurance taxpayers would still pay and the officer would be fired.

FIFY

 

[pmclaine]

I don’t think you e a full grasp or understanding of qualified immunity- and it is a fair and in fact the main target to “get us all back to being on the same side “.
Mind blowing fudd stuff when someone can say with a straight face “yep we can steal your stuff with no evidence and no crime and no charges - and when you prove it’s yours and we decide to give it back, when and if you still can’t sue us cause qualified immunity “. Anyone who’s spent 13 minutes on YouTube watching qualified immunity and civil asset forfeiture tutorials can claim bullshit that those two things aren’t a problem and what sets “hero’s” above the peon .

Civil asset forfeiture is a situation all its own.

The courts have basically said “If you can’t explain it’s presence it’s ours”.

It’s probably the one (more coming these days) place where guilty until proven innocent.

Thing is though there is shit involved with it that when you apply the reasonableness standard you start to scratch your head.

Do you believe everything your kids tell you or do you smell bullshit and call them on it?

Say you come across someone with their truck console stacked from front to rear with seriously time consuming packaged and arranged amounts of currency. Like seriously took some time to package and arrange it.

Purely a hypothetical situation not that anyone has ever done this.

So you ask what’s the money for?

The correct answer is none of your business eat my dick.

But the person says I am going to buy a car.

So you ask where are you going to buy a car.

The correct answer is none of your fucking business eat my passengers dick.

But they answer Xburg.

So you ask where in Xburg?

The correct answer is I am going to let you eat my dogs dick now.

But they say they don’t know.

And you ask how do you not know and the correct answer is You must like eating dicks but they say I forgot.

So you ask what kind of car and the correct answer is one fueled by dicks so you will probably be in competition for dicks to eat but they say they forgot.

So than you ask where did you get the money?

And the correct answer is there are not enough dicks in the world to feed you but they say Xburg bank.

So you ask which branch and instead of telling you your breath smells like dicks they say they forgot…..

So you ask how did you get the money and instead of saying by selling dicks to your favorite grocery store to feed you they say their tax return.

So you see this potentially $20k stash of cash and you think wow dude must be a Microsoft executive so you ask what do you do for work and instead of saying I’m an organic dick farmer you have probably ate my product they say they are unemployed.

Do you start to get the feeling someone is not telling the truth?

And because he is driving with a suspended license and his passenger has no license you decide you are going to tow the car because no one can drive it.

Than friends show up and no one offers to drive the car but they are all in a hurry to get the child seat and the child in it into the car and you wonder hmmm what’s in that seat but you have to be reasonable.

You take the twenty K and tell them they can pick it up at the barracks despite his lengthy history and because you realize despite the dog practically falling over on it you just don’t have enough when they show up you give them their twenty k and tell them to screw.

You know they will fuck up soon because they never learn to tell anyone to eat a dick.

 

[paulo_santos]

FIFY

I can bet just about any amounts of money (my money, not the taxpayers money) that the “taxpayers” money is wasted away on worse crap than things that cops do.

“You are wasting Taxpayers money” and “I pay your salary” are the two lamest lines. I’d rather hear donut jokes at this point.

 

[jb0311]

I think you misunderstand my intention there and are getting offended.

My point is that the “city” isn’t paying for jack shit. Whenever the city gets sued, it’s the taxpayers that get fucked. That includes you as you pay taxes, correct? I realize there are dumber ways our paycheck is being spent, that doesn’t negate all the other shitty fucking ways our government spends it.

 

[paulo_santos]

I think you misunderstand my intention there and are getting offended.

My point is that the “city” isn’t paying for jack shit. Whenever the city gets sued, it’s the taxpayers that get fucked. That includes you as you pay taxes, correct? I realize there are dumber ways our paycheck is being spent, that doesn’t negate all the other shitty fucking ways our government spends it.

I was just busting your chops.

 

[jb0311]

I was just busting your chops.

Same

 

[WindstormSCR]

I'm thankfully in a position where I can actually reasonably trust my local PD to do the right thing based on their track record, unfortunately I'm also too aware there are places where that is absolutely not the case.

I think it would help if the good members of the force started actually campaigning for reform of CAF and QI, because as they stand both doctrines promote distrust.
You don't have to throw them out wholesale either. Both can be reformed to work with and for the rights enumerated in the bill of rights:

CAF: make it meet a cause standard, make that cause standard subject to 4th amendment scrutiny. Police can still seize dirty money if they smell a rat, but must have a clearly articulable cause of action for the seizure and subject to penalties if they fuck it up.

QI: the notion of blanket immunity is a problem, but there is also something to be said about giving those tasked with dealing with difficult situations on the daily some protection from **personal** liability. Essentially instead of an absolute standard it needs to be subject to a reasonableness standard, and oopsies should still be subject to civil action, but in the case of a genuine oops the officer shouldn't be paying out of their life savings just because of trying to do the right thing.

Essentially there is room to reform both to promote public trust instead of destroy it

 

[aslrookie]

I always enjoy reading these threads. I genuinely like seeing what people think even if they just flat out disklike/hate all cops.

80% of my job is dealing with people who are incapable of handling their own problems and emotions. You’re feeling suicidal? Ok, take yourself to the hospital or have a friend do it, or seek help in some other fashion. Stop texting your friends saying “i want to get drunk and drive my car into oncoming traffic and kill myself” then don’t answer anymore calls and texts from your friends…then get pissed when they call the cops to come check on you.

If you’re having an argument with your wife or husband and shits getting out of hand, leave. Take a walk, go to a friends, get a hotel for the night, stay in different places of the house…but don’t beat the shit out of them and then wonder why they or the neighbors are calling us.

If you’re high, don’t drive, if you’re drunk, don’t drive.

These are the top 3 issues that consume most of my shifts, and they’re all preventable, but everyone expects us to show up somewhere people don’t want us and potentially take someone into custody.

I’d rather spend my shift getting real criminals off the street and not dealing with the fact you and your wife can’t get along, intoxicated, and want the cops to solve your problems.

My motto is, don’t give me a reason to bother you and I’ll leave you alone. I don’t give BS speed tickets and stop joe blow because his truck is lifted. I’m looking for the guy who’s trafficking drugs, stolen guns, people, stolen cars, felony warrants and etc. it’s sadly only 20% of my shift because I’m dealing with the other 80%.

 

[B y r o n]

What does all this BS have to do with "Law Enforcement "Patrol Designated Marksman Program""?

 

[jolofree]

What does all this BS have to do with "Law Enforcement "Patrol Designated Marksman Program""?

I'm sure the OP got a lot of useful information from all of these intelligent replies

 

[pmclaine]

We live in times that are multi faceted and things are not so simple.

Perhaps people might actually be concerned exactly where that DMR training might be employed.

Wasnt long ago I actually had full faith and confidence in my doctor.

 

[jb0311]

I always enjoy reading these threads. I genuinely like seeing what people think even if they just flat out disklike/hate all cops.

80% of my job is dealing with people who are incapable of handling their own problems and emotions. You’re feeling suicidal? Ok, take yourself to the hospital or have a friend do it, or seek help in some other fashion. Stop texting your friends saying “i want to get drunk and drive my car into oncoming traffic and kill myself” then don’t answer anymore calls and texts from your friends…then get pissed when they call the cops to come check on you.

If you’re having an argument with your wife or husband and shits getting out of hand, leave. Take a walk, go to a friends, get a hotel for the night, stay in different places of the house…but don’t beat the shit out of them and then wonder why they or the neighbors are calling us.

If you’re high, don’t drive, if you’re drunk, don’t drive.

These are the top 3 issues that consume most of my shifts, and they’re all preventable, but everyone expects us to show up somewhere people don’t want us and potentially take someone into custody.

I’d rather spend my shift getting real criminals off the street and not dealing with the fact you and your wife can’t get along, intoxicated, and want the cops to solve your problems.

My motto is, don’t give me a reason to bother you and I’ll leave you alone. I don’t give BS speed tickets and stop joe blow because his truck is lifted. I’m looking for the guy who’s trafficking drugs, stolen guns, people, stolen cars, felony warrants and etc. it’s sadly only 20% of my shift because I’m dealing with the other 80%.

Welcome to any public service job. It’s part of it man.

 

[TheHorta]

This thread is why the aliens keep flying right on by.

 

[Jsp556]

“You are wasting Taxpayers money” and “I pay your salary” are the two lamest lines. I’d rather hear donut jokes at this point.

And this, right here, is why people have the feelings they do…

Absolutely disgusting.

 

[RUTGERS95]

And this, right here, is why people have the feelings they do…

Absolutely disgusting.

we already know he's one of the ones that are a problem. He 'served', how dare you question him???? lol @ served

 

[RUTGERS95]

I always enjoy reading these threads. I genuinely like seeing what people think even if they just flat out disklike/hate all cops.

80% of my job is dealing with people who are incapable of handling their own problems and emotions. You’re feeling suicidal? Ok, take yourself to the hospital or have a friend do it, or seek help in some other fashion. Stop texting your friends saying “i want to get drunk and drive my car into oncoming traffic and kill myself” then don’t answer anymore calls and texts from your friends…then get pissed when they call the cops to come check on you.

If you’re having an argument with your wife or husband and shits getting out of hand, leave. Take a walk, go to a friends, get a hotel for the night, stay in different places of the house…but don’t beat the shit out of them and then wonder why they or the neighbors are calling us.

If you’re high, don’t drive, if you’re drunk, don’t drive.

These are the top 3 issues that consume most of my shifts, and they’re all preventable, but everyone expects us to show up somewhere people don’t want us and potentially take someone into custody.

I’d rather spend my shift getting real criminals off the street and not dealing with the fact you and your wife can’t get along, intoxicated, and want the cops to solve your problems.

My motto is, don’t give me a reason to bother you and I’ll leave you alone. I don’t give BS speed tickets and stop joe blow because his truck is lifted. I’m looking for the guy who’s trafficking drugs, stolen guns, people, stolen cars, felony warrants and etc. it’s sadly only 20% of my shift because I’m dealing with the other 80%.

you are not the norm by any stretch. tipping my hat to you

 

[paulo_santos]

And this, right here, is why people have the feelings they do…

Absolutely disgusting.

You missed the part where I said that as a joke.

 

[paulo_santos]

I always enjoy reading these threads. I genuinely like seeing what people think even if they just flat out disklike/hate all cops.

80% of my job is dealing with people who are incapable of handling their own problems and emotions. You’re feeling suicidal? Ok, take yourself to the hospital or have a friend do it, or seek help in some other fashion. Stop texting your friends saying “i want to get drunk and drive my car into oncoming traffic and kill myself” then don’t answer anymore calls and texts from your friends…then get pissed when they call the cops to come check on you.

If you’re having an argument with your wife or husband and shits getting out of hand, leave. Take a walk, go to a friends, get a hotel for the night, stay in different places of the house…but don’t beat the shit out of them and then wonder why they or the neighbors are calling us.

If you’re high, don’t drive, if you’re drunk, don’t drive.

These are the top 3 issues that consume most of my shifts, and they’re all preventable, but everyone expects us to show up somewhere people don’t want us and potentially take someone into custody.

I’d rather spend my shift getting real criminals off the street and not dealing with the fact you and your wife can’t get along, intoxicated, and want the cops to solve your problems.

My motto is, don’t give me a reason to bother you and I’ll leave you alone. I don’t give BS speed tickets and stop joe blow because his truck is lifted. I’m looking for the guy who’s trafficking drugs, stolen guns, people, stolen cars, felony warrants and etc. it’s sadly only 20% of my shift because I’m dealing with the other 80%.

I think it is higher than 80%. You can add to that list the people who cannot lock their cars and wonder why their cars get stolen and then they blame us, even after the lawmakers passed laws so we could not pursue vehicles anymore.

 

[paulo_santos]

I don’t even know why I wasted my time and came back to posting on gun forums again.

 

[wade2big]

I don’t even know why I wasted my time and came back to posting on gun forums again.

You make it publicly known on a firearm enthusiast forum that you carry a gun to enforce the will of tyrants in one of the most anti-gun states in this country and you wonder why you aren’t accepted with open arms.

 

[tomme boy]

I have been saying and talking to my city and govt that anything that needs to be investigated with law enforcement, a committee of local people like jury duty are the ones that decide if misconduct or violating some ones rights happened. You can't have a LEO investigate another LEO and have a fare outcome. Too easy to look away and the "its us against them" mentality ensues.

 

[TheHorta]

*fair

 

[aslrookie]

I have been saying and talking to my city and govt that anything that needs to be investigated with law enforcement, a committee of local people like jury duty are the ones that decide if misconduct or violating some ones rights happened. You can't have a LEO investigate another LEO and have a fare outcome. Too easy to look away and the "its us against them" mentality ensues.

The average US citizen barely knows traffic laws let alone state and federal case law to determine if someone's rights were violated. There's a reason why lawyers and judges spend years in law school studying cases. Do you know the case law that is the test for the reasonableness officer standards for use of force? Do you know what the case law is to support expansion of a traffic stop regarding reasonable articulable suspicion? Do you know what the definition of reasonable articulable suspicion is? Do you know the case law regarding entering a home without a search warrant without homeowners consent?

I am not being argumentative. It's just a flawed method to have non-legal professionals judge the actions of those who work within the confines of the law. Do you think a jury of average citizens would be a good idea to determine if a doctors actions were right or wrong?

 

[wade2big]

The average US citizen barely knows traffic laws let alone state and federal case law to determine if someone's rights were violated. There's a reason why lawyers and judges spend years in law school studying cases. Do you know the case law that is the test for the reasonableness officer standards for use of force? Do you know what the case law is too support expansion of a traffic stop regarding reasonable articulable suspicion? Do you know what the definition of reasonable articulable suspicion is?

I am not being argumentative. It's just a flawed method to have non-legal professionals judge the actions of those who work within the confines of the law. Do you think a jury of average citizens would be a good idea to determine if a doctors actions were right or wrong?

Let me guess……cop.

My favorite part

the actions of those who work within the confines of the law.

 

[WindstormSCR]

The average US citizen barely knows traffic laws let alone state and federal case law to determine if someone's rights were violated. There's a reason why lawyers and judges spend years in law school studying cases. Do you know the case law that is the test for the reasonableness officer standards for use of force? Do you know what the case law is to support expansion of a traffic stop regarding reasonable articulable suspicion? Do you know what the definition of reasonable articulable suspicion is? Do you know the case law regarding entering a home without a search warrant without homeowners consent?

I am not being argumentative. It's just a flawed method to have non-legal professionals judge the actions of those who work within the confines of the law. Do you think a jury of average citizens would be a good idea to determine if a doctors actions were right or wrong?

mostly yes, and without going to law school. the sets you are describing are fairly narrow when it comes to legal precedent, and can be boiled down to a basic set of requirements instead of needing to memorize the minutia.

also a basic "does this obviously violate the plain text of the constitution" isn't hard. like say taking someone's shit at the side of the road without any sort of due process involved and telling them to sue if they want it back.

 

[aslrookie]

mostly yes, and without going to law school. the sets you are describing are fairly narrow when it comes to legal precedent, and can be boiled down to a basic set of requirements instead of needing to memorize the minutia.

also a basic "does this obviously violate the plain text of the constitution" isn't hard. like say taking someone's shit at the side of the road without any sort of due process involved and telling them to sue if they want it back.

The minutia is important. That’s what establishes case law precedents. The prongs of the case and etc. It goes both ways for the public and the cops. It could mean the difference between probable cause, false arrest, reasonable use of force, or excessive use of force. Most people probably go to the extreme of giving someone a beat down. In reality, people have claimed excessive force for much less even when they actively resisted during a lawful arrest. That’s why the minutia matters. Words like “and” “or” “may” “shall” are minutia but have very real consequences if improperly used.

I would honestly enjoy the job a lot more if it just came down to the plain text of the constitution. I also think people are under the misconception that the constitution restricts LE more than state laws do. That’s not 100% true. There are things federal LE can do that local LE cannot due to further restrictions set by the state. Example, WA states constitution is a higher threshold for search and seizure than the 4th amendment of the US constitution. Therefore, as liberal as WA state is, it actually affords its citizens more protections. The irony is the Gov allows that to work for criminals and puts the burden on gun owners by restricting their rights.

My honest opinion about the LE field is it sucks. You have ticket writers that love to stop people for petty things and give them a ticket. Not my style. You have lazy cops that don’t wanna do anything, don’t wanna train, don’t wanna learn case law, administration only cares about themselves, and the public can’t agree on what cops should or shouldn’t do. Some people think their neighbors should be arrested for making too much noise and others think any govt is bad. I don’t have all the answers. I just try to catch the actual criminals trafficking, stealing, and victimizing the other 98% that just wanna live their lives.

 

[xciapup]

mil ought to be separate, le is civil service and should be out in front

Pretty sure Ronnie Barrett would agree. Pretty sure.

 

[tomme boy]

And when a cop investigates another cop and finds nothing was wrong. 95% of the time this is how it will happen. I have seen soo many people that were taken into the police state against their will and sat in JAIL for 70 hours just to be released before they were actually had to be booked. Since they were actually not booked into the jail they were not arrested. Then the BS investigation of it says they operated within the law as they released said person before they had to be booked.

What would happen if I came to your house, grabbed you and put zip ties around your wrist. Then threw you in the back of my truck and took you out to MY farm and threw you into a hog pen. Then 2 days later cut the ties and tell you to find your own way home. Think I would be looked at the same way as an officer just did the same thing but in a jail NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And if can not see the problem in that, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM!

 

[pmclaine]

What would happen if I came to your house, grabbed you and put zip ties around your wrist. Then threw you in the back of my truck and took you out to MY farm and threw you into a hog pen. Then 2 days later cut the ties and tell you to find your own way home.

This is where I assumed that story ended…