LC64 Match Brass OK For Bolt Gun (308)?
- Thread starter DRAGON64
- Start date
I have some LC 64 and 65 Match brass and it is very consistent. It getting on up there in age, so you may want to consider annealing. Its good stuff. Lightman
Dragon64,
Watch your charge weights, too. Military .30-06 and 7.62 brass (including the Match types) are thicker than their commercial counterparts, and have somewhat reduced case capacity. Good stuff, very stout and usually very uniform, and no, no problem using them in bolt guns whatsoever. Just the capacity issue, and that's easily adjusted for. And, as M14 Shooter already pointed out, the Match cases weren't crimped to begin with, so you can avoid that step altogether.
Incidentally, this same thing doesn't apply to 5.56mm military cases, which have roughly the same capacities as do most commercial "civilian" cases.
Watch your charge weights, too. Military .30-06 and 7.62 brass (including the Match types) are thicker than their commercial counterparts, and have somewhat reduced case capacity. Good stuff, very stout and usually very uniform, and no, no problem using them in bolt guns whatsoever. Just the capacity issue, and that's easily adjusted for. And, as M14 Shooter already pointed out, the Match cases weren't crimped to begin with, so you can avoid that step altogether.
Incidentally, this same thing doesn't apply to 5.56mm military cases, which have roughly the same capacities as do most commercial "civilian" cases.
ks, about how many grains should we decrease for the LC brass compared to something like FGMM and Winchester brass when starting out on load development? Should we do something like 1 grain less than the published starting charge weight?
Usual answer is around 5% or so to start, and with most powders in the 308, 10% certainly won't be a problem. Call it two grains for a typical 40 grain charge, and you'll be in the ballpark. Chrono for best results, and let the pressure signs and velocities dial you in.
Is there a concern of the neck and shoulder tensil strength at stake in older cases? The individual selling the surplus stated that the cases have been in boxed up sinse the early 70's...
Brass can harden with age and you can get split necks. Its not a big issue, except that its really good brass and you don't want to trash it after only one loading. Lightman
Thank you Lightman... I will be sure to bring the brass back to form, and employ a little heat along the way. I just purchased 500 pieces, and am looking forward to getting them.
They seem to take more effort to size. Case capacity seems about normal. I haven't had any issues with them
Depending on what they were initially fire formed in, you should have to full length resize one time and then
neck size after that.
I have some 67 LC NM that are on their 15th cycle, may have to anneal at some point but not yet.
neck size after that.
I have some 67 LC NM that are on their 15th cycle, may have to anneal at some point but not yet.
I am currently using a Lee full sizing die, should I get a good neck sizing die for the future loads then? If I do not need to full length resize these shells after the first time that would be a plus... 15 cycles would be great for me, as I can only manage a little range time compared to most seasoned shooters. Looks like I wont get the cases till this weekend, and it is supposed to rain this... so I will spend the time inspecting and prepping them use.
To quantify my response if you fire those same cases in the same bolt gun, without undue pressures they should last a long time.
You should only need to neck size until the brass becomes work hardened, than try full length resizing again.
All the while this is going on you will check for length, trim when necessary, look for dreaded doughnut @ case neck juncture,
correct primer pockets, this is all just case maintenance as far as I am concerned.
You should only need to neck size until the brass becomes work hardened, than try full length resizing again.
All the while this is going on you will check for length, trim when necessary, look for dreaded doughnut @ case neck juncture,
correct primer pockets, this is all just case maintenance as far as I am concerned.
DRAGON64,
Getting that sort of life from LC cases in a bolt gun shouldn't be a problem, even with F/L sizing. You need a case gage or a bump gage to make sure you're not setting shoulders back too far, but that's it. Case life doing that should be just as good as it would be with a N/S die set up, without the inevitable headaches that come from neck sizing. Your accuracy will be just as good, if not better with the F/L sizing, and you'll never need to worry about the cartridges failing to chamber like they eventually will with N/S. Far easier to avoid the problems in the first place, rather than try to correct them once they've occurred.
Getting that sort of life from LC cases in a bolt gun shouldn't be a problem, even with F/L sizing. You need a case gage or a bump gage to make sure you're not setting shoulders back too far, but that's it. Case life doing that should be just as good as it would be with a N/S die set up, without the inevitable headaches that come from neck sizing. Your accuracy will be just as good, if not better with the F/L sizing, and you'll never need to worry about the cartridges failing to chamber like they eventually will with N/S. Far easier to avoid the problems in the first place, rather than try to correct them once they've occurred.
Good point, I believe they were fired from a m1 garand, this is why they were tough to originally size. Then for bolt gun I just neck size after.
If I am not mistaken annealing will mainly restore neck tension. I'm not sure what you are basing the "need" on. When the case neck no longer holds the bullet? I generally anneal every 3 cycles.
Correct, when it no holds tension, and I double size all of my LC brass the first time I reload them.
Size as normal and let it set in die for a 5 count, spin case 180 degrees and size again, I also use
scientific laboratory foam Q tips with a trace of Sinclair case lube on inside of case necks to allow
the polished expander to pass chatter free.
Size as normal and let it set in die for a 5 count, spin case 180 degrees and size again, I also use
scientific laboratory foam Q tips with a trace of Sinclair case lube on inside of case necks to allow
the polished expander to pass chatter free.
I do the size then 1/2 turn and size again with neck sizing too, every time. When i am seating anything precision i do 50% seat and rotate also.
I have a hornady concentricty gauge and noticed no difference with the extra effort. My theory is if something IS off the 1/2 turn and redo/finish may help to limit it. I was only .001-.002 off on everything with and without the extra steps, acceptable to me.
I found a regular qtip (generic even! Lol) and redding imperial does the job as well
I have read some FL size to start then neck size. Every 3rd time FL size to prevent that from happening. I have gotten to 16x though all N/S except the original F/L and never had a chambering problem in either of my tight "match" chamber guns. Just to note, no, they were not sharing brass between them.
Bbowl1,
Give it time, and you will have problems. Just a matter of when and where Murphy decides to pay you a visit. F/L sidesteps all this, and at virtually no cost in case life, and with enhanced accuracy. Just takes a little more work to process the cases.
Give it time, and you will have problems. Just a matter of when and where Murphy decides to pay you a visit. F/L sidesteps all this, and at virtually no cost in case life, and with enhanced accuracy. Just takes a little more work to process the cases.
My new (old) purchase of LC64 Match brass has arrived... Most of which looked like this:
Not bad, and should tumble clean...
And then there are roughly 200+ pieces from the 514 I received that are in various stages of decay... there are 100 pieces missing from this image, they are currently tumbling...
Some decay is mild with a little bit of greening and dirt...
And some is quite severe... as in pulled from the hull of the Titanic severe...
Of the 100 that are tumbling (about 45-minutes now) I made sure to vary the cases in severity to see what may be salvageable, and which need to be canned... I believe I will need to change my media after this experience. Is there anything I can use to clean some of the corrosion off the less severe cases?
EDIT: I have decided to go ahead and tumble all of the corroded pieces at one time, maybe 4-5+ hours to see what, if any of the severe cases are deemed salvageable... Then I can let the seller know how much of what he sold me was un-useable.
Not bad, and should tumble clean...
And then there are roughly 200+ pieces from the 514 I received that are in various stages of decay... there are 100 pieces missing from this image, they are currently tumbling...
Some decay is mild with a little bit of greening and dirt...
And some is quite severe... as in pulled from the hull of the Titanic severe...
Of the 100 that are tumbling (about 45-minutes now) I made sure to vary the cases in severity to see what may be salvageable, and which need to be canned... I believe I will need to change my media after this experience. Is there anything I can use to clean some of the corrosion off the less severe cases?
EDIT: I have decided to go ahead and tumble all of the corroded pieces at one time, maybe 4-5+ hours to see what, if any of the severe cases are deemed salvageable... Then I can let the seller know how much of what he sold me was un-useable.
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Dragon64,
Use white vinegar on the corroded cases. You can heat it up, but it will stink up the house(ask me how I know). Make sure you rinse in water to neutralize the vinegar or it will turn the brass black. You also heat the water hot so when you are done, it will not need the oven to dry. It will remove the corrosion and rust so you can see what you have to work with. We use it to clean the brass before polishing. John
Use white vinegar on the corroded cases. You can heat it up, but it will stink up the house(ask me how I know). Make sure you rinse in water to neutralize the vinegar or it will turn the brass black. You also heat the water hot so when you are done, it will not need the oven to dry. It will remove the corrosion and rust so you can see what you have to work with. We use it to clean the brass before polishing. John
Thank you brassman, the white vinegar was quite the miracle cure for all of this ugly... after 6-hours in the tumbler, I was able to salvage maybe 25 to 35 cases, but they still looked bad. I dumped all of the remaining cases in a large bowl, and emptied one and a half bottles of the vinegar into the mix. I started by cleaning the 'not-so-bad' cases first, which allowed the tough-jobbed cases time to soak, and on the tough cases, I also used a #0000 pad of steel wool.... the short of the long; I was on a mission to try and recover what I could of the 200+ corroded cases, and I managed to save all but 30 pieces. That vinegar process is a keeper... really makes the cases shine. I may need to get a half case of the cheap stuff and clean all of my empties. This was an all day afair, so I did not get any pics... just know these look awesome now. Thank you!
