Let's talk 7mm choices ....

6.5BR

Sergeant
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Oct 6, 2007
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For a hunting rifle w/reach (deer/perhaps elk/moose/bear), give me your pros/cons for a good round that would see duty mostly w/140-162 hunting bullets.

I realize many of you drive heavier higher BC bullets....

Are the SAUM and WSM just re-inventing the wheel vs. a say 7RM and 280? Seems the latter albeit in long actions still offer a good bit of range, perhaps a noticeable one over a 7/08 pushing say 162/2700 or so.

I guess the 284 should also be in the mix.

Any 7mm shooters wanting to chime in on this feel free.

Things like brass quality, life, bore life, ease of load work up, all of interest.

Like to hear from all on your choices/favorites.

Thanks in advance.

 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

A 7mm-08 can just about equal the performance of the 270 Winchester which has been used on deer, elk, moose and bear with much success for around 80+ years. That being said...I would probably buy a 7-08 and have it rechamvered to 284 Winchester if I thought I would be hunting animals larger than deer.
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6.5BR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For a hunting rifle w/reach (deer/perhaps elk/moose/bear), give me your pros/cons for a good round that would see duty mostly w/140-162 hunting bullets.

I realize many of you drive heavier higher BC bullets....

Are the SAUM and WSM just re-inventing the wheel vs. a say 7RM and 280? Seems the latter albeit in long actions still offer a good bit of range, perhaps a noticeable one over a 7/08 pushing say 162/2700 or so.

I guess the 284 should also be in the mix.

Any 7mm shooters wanting to chime in on this feel free.

Things like brass quality, life, bore life, ease of load work up, all of interest.

Like to hear from all on your choices/favorites.

Thanks in advance.Well, I'm a 7mm-08 fan myself. Probably a little light for anything above a Mule Deer, but has pretty good ballistics. JMHO.
smile.gif


</div></div>
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

I'm a fan of the 280ai has great ballistics, and you don't have to push it hard to get great velocities out of it.
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

I have a GAP in 7WSM, a Sendero in 7RM, and 280AI built by a local smith.
All shoot very well. The GAP is the most accurate but also cost 2.5 time the money.
The 280AI is the easiest to load and really likes 140NBTs.
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

I have a 284 I built several years ago before 6.5-284 rage, a 7mmrm and a 7wsm. Except for the long action size of the 7rm the 7wsm and the 284 are pretty even from the performance side, the rebated head of the 284 make building it easier because you just need a 308 bolt face. Hard to really go wrong, 7mm is a good choice.
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

There are lots of great caliber options in the "7mm" (0.284") bullet diameter category. I put 7mm in quotes because it really is 7.2mm, but commonly referred to as 7mm. Everyone has their own preferences, but here is a quick summary from my perspective.

7mm-08: Popular for high powered silhouette shooting. Norma and Lapua brass are excellent. Triumphs 308win with less drop and wind drift because of higher BC bullets for weight. Does not match the velocity of short mags or rem mag, but shoots more efficiently from shorter barrels (e.g 20" to 22").

284win: In between 7mm-08 and mags in velocity and barrel life. Limited availability for good brass. "Wildcat" 6.5-284 is more popular the parent cartridge.

7mm WSM: Winchester brass is relatively reasonably price, it is good if your sort and prep. Larger case capacity then 7mm-08 and 284win gives you higher velocity, and essentially matches 7mm Rem Mag in a short action. Some argue that in order to seat to high BC bullets (180grs), the case capacity shrinks too much to maintain enough of a charge for higher velocity nodes when feeding from an AI magazine and that you really need a long action...however Alpha mags & Seekins makes magazines that allow you to seat bullets long.

7mm SAUM: Nosler brass is supposed to be better, and more expensive, but it is very difficult to find in stock. It is slightly more "efficient" than 7mm WSM with similar velocities at slightly lower charge, but 7mm WSM has larger case capacity and thus slighly higher max velocities. To me, this is really splitting hairs, and they are essentially almost identical, pick either 7mm SAUM depending on your rifle, brass, etc. preferences.

7mm Rem Mag: Much more options in factory loaded ammo and rifles. More case capacity then WSM and SAUM, but does it less efficiently needing more powder for same velocities, and thus shorter barrel life. Belted case is not liked by many reloaders, and may be less inherently accurate than short mags.

For the calibers, of course, as you go up in velocity, you trade that for shorter barrel life.

There are other 7mm (0.284"), such as the 7mm Dakota and 7mm STW that are popular with hunters, but less so for competition shooters.

For me, I would first think about what you will be shooting and at what distances. I presume you reload, otherwise I think 7mm rem mag is the only real viable options for you. Then I would consider what barrel length is acceptable to you. To take full advantage of the short mags, and get near complete powder burn for their larger case capacity, at least a 24" to 26" barrel is preferred. If you are going with a 22" or shorter barrel, then look at 7mm-08 or 280AI instead.
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

Don't you really need a long action for 284 Win? My understanding is you can single feed a short action, or else your COAL must be kept very short, giving up case capacity ....?
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't you really need a long action for 284 Win? My understanding is you can single feed a short action, or else your COAL must be kept very short, giving up case capacity ....?</div></div>

if you want to feed it from a mag and shoot the high BC bullets seated long, then yes.

If you are going to single feed it and never put in more than one shell, then a SA if fine.
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

I say you can't go wrong with the 7RM. All that crap about the belt some how hindering performance or accuracy is just that.
How is it tough to reload for? I have five rifles of different calibers that use belted cases that I reload for and they all are setup to head space off the shoulder.

Factory ammunition is plentiful and everywhere for the 7RM and it can be loaded down to 7\08 velocities for younger or beginning shooters.
Build a 7RM throated with some free bore and there isn't much that can match it for an open country rifle.

That being said I think the 7SAUM looks like a the best of the lot for a short action pick.
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mclevela</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I say you can't go wrong with the 7RM. All that crap about the belt some how hindering performance or accuracy is just that.
How is it tough to reload for? I have five rifles of different calibers that use belted cases that I reload for and they all are setup to head space off the shoulder.

Factory ammunition is plentiful and everywhere for the 7RM and it can be loaded down to 7\08 velocities for younger or beginning shooters.
Build a 7RM throated with some free bore and there isn't much that can match it for an open country rifle.

That being said I think the 7SAUM looks like a the best of the lot for a short action pick. </div></div>

I'm with ya. 7mmRM is a great caliber that deserves its popularity. I absolutely don't understand how the 300WM seems to have caught on better as a "sniping" round.

Also agree the belt catches an undeserved bad rap.

EDIT: After rereading the OP, I think the 7mmRM is *the* choice of 7mm cartridges. Ammo available anywhere and everywhere - and a SOLID performer. Not to say however, that the other cartridges mentioned aren't good ones.
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JCH</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't you really need a long action for 284 Win? My understanding is you can single feed a short action, or else your COAL must be kept very short, giving up case capacity ....?</div></div>

if you want to feed it from a mag and shoot the high BC bullets seated long, then yes.

If you are going to single feed it and never put in more than one shell, then a SA if fine. </div></div>

That's pretty much what I thought, thanks!

I'd love to do a 284, but alas, I'm building a short action in 260...
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

I have an APA .284 running 162 AMAXs just north of 2900. Hell of a round; only downside is brass workup.
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

A 280 AI on a Encore frame makes a excellent hunting setup.
28" barrel gets the velocities and still is short since you dont have to contend with th length of a bolt action. I am pushing a 160gr at well over 3000fps
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

I have a 280AI and a 7wsm. I feel you can't go wrong with either as they both shoot flat and have minimal recoil. I do however have a soft spot of the 280AI.

The nosler brass I have bought for the 280AI has turned out to be pretty good stuff. The winchester brass for the wsm is not quite as good in my opinon.
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

I would go with the 280 AI, mine shoots one hole groups with the 162 a-max and IMR 4831. Only downside might be the price of the nosler brass, but I have gotten 8-12 reloads with it.
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

I looked through the others and would agree on the 280ai making number 6 to do so.

Or you could buy my 7mmWeathebryMag! It has taken moose, black bear and white tail.

But seriously,I am selling it because it is over powered for what I want. I will more than likely replace it with a 280ai.
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

RTS, tell me about:

Your COL in that 284 - will it fit a standard SA mag?
Bbl Length?
Brass work up?

Thanks guys. Sounds like a custom LA would be hard pressed not to try the 280/AI, otherwise one could buy a 7RM ready made.

I wonder how well a 284 w/162s would do in a factory mag or possibly aftermarket i.e. a BDL/ADL set up as if built it would be a sporter and not interested in a box mag.

How far are shooters taking the 7/08 to w/success? And w/what bullets/speeds?

No doubt, in a hunting rifle bbl life would be preferable not over 23" for me....or my son if I have one set up for him.

Thanks.
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6.5BR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RTS, tell me about:

Your COL in that 284 - will it fit a standard SA mag?
Bbl Length?
Brass work up?

Thanks guys. Sounds like a custom LA would be hard pressed not to try the 280/AI, otherwise one could buy a 7RM ready made.

I wonder how well a 284 w/162s would do in a factory mag or possibly aftermarket i.e. a BDL/ADL set up as if built it would be a sporter and not interested in a box mag.

How far are shooters taking the 7/08 to w/success? And w/what bullets/speeds?

No doubt, in a hunting rifle bbl life would be preferable not over 23" for me....or my son if I have one set up for him.

Thanks.

</div></div>

My 7-08 is still at 1000fps at 1 mile. I missed at TVP on the one mile target by 3 min of wind on my first round and was elevation correct with a 74min up correction. I'm running the 162bthp with 47.2g H4350 behind it and getting a MV of 2780. I have found the BTHP much more stable than the A-max and couldn't even observe impacts past 1200yards with the A-max as they had become unstable. The BTHP seams to be holding up at 1 mile.

Good luck,
Merritt
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

I have hunted with an stw for 15 years. I shoot 162, and 175 loads. If I had it to
do over I would have gone with the 7mm. With 140's the big overbore shines,
with the heavier bullets I gain very little for all that extra powder. And a 26 inch
barrel is minimum. The 7mm does it on 24".
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

I've hunted with the 7mmRM since 1982 and it has never failed me. I started out reloading in the 80's and had enough to last for several years. At the time I was putting 5 in a 3/4" group at 200 yds. As time went by I started buying factory loads and ended up with 1" groups.

I can't remember how many deer, hogs and varmints have succumb to this thing, but suffice it to say it was plenty.
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

I've been planning on a 260, but I'm rethinking a 708, 708AI or a 284. From what I understand, the 284 will work in a Win70 SA, although you will give up some case capacity because the bullets have to be seated deep to feed from the mag.. Still, it has more capacity than a 708. Only trouble is Ive got boatloads of good 308 brass, and like the idea of forming my new, flatter/higher performance cartridge from brass I already have.
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been planning on a 260, but I'm rethinking a 708, 708AI or a 284. From what I understand, the 284 will work in a Win70 SA, .......</div></div>

Check this article out on the 284 in a short action. I originally thought about the 284 in a SA but went LA as for hunting purposes the SA vs SA does not really matter to me. So went LA to keep all my case/bullet seating options open.

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek095.html

Also there was some info on 7mm case capacity in this thread I found useful when thinking over the various cartridges:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...rue#Post2706265

YMMV
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

I just got a Nosler Trophy Grade 280AI in for testing and will hunt with it some this season.. if I fall in love with it I will buy it.

I got the version with the lighter profile barrel (Pacnor)

Waiting on ammo to arrive later this week as well as dies for reloading.

The 280AI seems like an ideal balanced cartridge.

Shoots as flat out to 500 yards as a 25-06 w/100g bullets but with 140g bullets and less wind drift.


 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Overflow10</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been planning on a 260, but I'm rethinking a 708, 708AI or a 284. From what I understand, the 284 will work in a Win70 SA, .......</div></div>

Check this article out on the 284 in a short action. I originally thought about the 284 in a SA but went LA as for hunting purposes I am going BDL so it does not really matter?

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek095.html

YMMV </div></div>

Thanks for the link. I had read that and was considering how I felt about the case mouth ending on the ogive of the bullet (the heavy, high BC bullets we care about). I guess my main hangup with 284 is the brass. I'm not a brass Nazi, and feel the indian is MUCH more important than the arrow, but nonetheless, 284 brass doesnt grow in trees like 308 brass does. 708 can easily be sized from 308. I have even considered having PTG grind a "loose neck" 260 reamer intended to handle "260 brass" formed from 308. Ultimately, 260, 708, 708AI and 284 will all be leaps/bounds better than 308...

Hope I'm not threadjacking - my point here is that 7mm bullets are just about impossible to beat in the realm of "reasonable". I'd really like to rock the 160-180gr 7mm bullets, but want to drive them hard enough to be worthwhile.

Sidenote: A fellow at the gunclub is an F class guy, and runs a 284 with the 180gr Berger@2950fps. 3000 rounds and counting and it is still an absolute hammer. Yesterday he scored a 598-36X at a 600yd 3x600 match. Its pretty frickin hard to argue with those ballistics and barrel life!
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Sidenote: A fellow at the gunclub is an F class guy, and runs a 284 with the 180gr Berger@2950fps. 3000 rounds and counting and it is still an absolute hammer. Yesterday he scored a 598-36X at a 600yd 3x600 match. Its pretty frickin hard to argue with those ballistics and barrel life! </div></div>

Odd that you bring tha up. I few weeks ago I was at a an F-Class match shooting next to Danny Biggs. We were chatting in the pits and I was asking him about his 7RSAUM and barrel life/brass availability. He said that when he broke the 1000yd F-open record this year (200-15X, twice in one weekend) it was a barrel with 1500 rounds through it and shooting Remington brass. I'm a fan of the 7RM and the 7-08 but I thought toss that out there for you. I'd imagine that an RSAUM will do fine for a long time unless you are shooting competition with it.
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

I'm working on a 7mm SAUM in a S/A. I'm hoping from what I read I'll get 2,850 with 180g Berger Hybrids with a 26" barrel. I'm hoping it will work well...Mainly a long range deer thumper!
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

All great info guys, thanks much. Turbo54, that a short or long action?

mw-thanks on the BTHP info. Wonder if that is suitable on game? Anyone?
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6.5BR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All great info guys, thanks much. Turbo54, that a short or long action?

mw-thanks on the BTHP info. Wonder if that is suitable on game? Anyone?
</div></div>

Is what a short or long action? I've been intending to build off an FN SPR, which is an SA. The fellow at the club with the 284 uses a custom action he built himself.
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RTS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have an APA .284 running 162 AMAXs just north of 2900. Hell of a round; only downside is brass workup. </div></div>

only if you make it that way. other than chamfering the case mouth, i run out of the bag winchester brass and it has been working great for me. good thing too since i'm damn lazy when it comes to loading.
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6.5BR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All great info guys, thanks much. Turbo54, that a short or long action?

mw-thanks on the BTHP info. Wonder if that is suitable on game? Anyone?
</div></div>

BTHP is not made for big game. It will take it just due to cavitation but I'd recommend the A-max with big game. The A-max served me well out to 1k it just became unstable past 1k. You run out of Ft/lbs for big game past 700-800yrds anyway so there is no reason not to go A-max for hunting. The zero is elevation correct just windage differance at 100 so it would be easy to change back and forth.

My loads for each round.

162BTHP
47.2 H4350
Win Brass
CCI 200
2.875 OAL
2780fps

(dies left in the same position gives you the following load which zeroes almost identically)

162 A-max
47.2 H4350
CCI 200
2.905 OAL
2700 FPS

The o-give on the amax is much different than the BTHP and I think this is where the stability issues lie. I'm twisting much faster than most and actually can run the 180s with my twist so it's not due to the barrel.

Good luck,
Merrit
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6.5BR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RTS, tell me about:

Your COL in that 284 - will it fit a standard SA mag?
Bbl Length?
Brass work up?

...

</div></div>

COL is 3.130; APA Genesis long action.
Bbl is 24".
Brass is 6.5x284 Lapua necked up and turned down.

Best of luck with your build.
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

Been shooting and reloading 7mm RM since 1970s. Never had an issue with the belted case. Agree with comments above regarding 7 RM. I almost went WSM (7 or 300) a few years back, but after careful consideration, stuck with the 7 RM.

Since this is a hunting rifle, an important consideration is factory ammo availability. Besides the myriad factory loads available for any game, if you got in a crunch, you can even go to WallyWorld and get ammo. I've heard horror stories of ammo lost in transit for that big hunt or even forgetting to bring it.

You can't go wrong with a 7mm RM.

Kevin
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

If you use the FN SPR action and swap out the mag box with the WSM mag box and follower you'll get 3.050" overall length with it and it feeds the 284 Win case perfectly...that's what I did.
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: msalm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you use the FN SPR action and swap out the mag box with the WSM mag box and follower you'll get 3.050" overall length with it and it feeds the 284 Win case perfectly...that's what I did. </div></div>

Very interesting. I already have a CDI DBM for it that takes AICS mags... I don't think they offer one for the SPR that takes a bigger mag. I do have an OEM bottom metal though.

I am perusing an OLD speer manual comparing 7-08 and 284. Interestingly, with a 160gr bullet, it lists 47.0gr IMR4350 at 2848fps, and the 284 at 2808fps with 54gr IMR4350. In both cases, this is the fastest listed velocity.

Just old obsolete data? Powders of the day not ideal for 284? Seems strange. Any explanation?

From what I know in general of the 284, I'm VERY tempted, but it would suck to start rrom square 1 on brass, when I've literally got thousands and thousands of pieces of excellent 308 brass I could form 708 from.

Damn! Choices choices! Can't make up my mind! 6.5mm or 7mm? 308-based or not? Ackley or not!?
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6.5BR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">T-54, yes the custom action, short or long was my ?, thanks. </div></div>

Honestly I don't know. I assume it is basically a long action to give him the ability to chamber in anything he wishes, and to chase the lands of the 6.5-284 he used to use. It is not based on a Rem700 or anthing else. It is a straight custom he made on a manual mill. It looks a little crude but it sure works. I believe it makes use of a Rem700 trigger though.
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

So I did a little research.

Looks like 284 (or 6.5-284) is a go in an FN SPR with CDI bottom metal. I called alpha and was told the type III and IV mags dsigned for the WSM cartridges will work great, and accommodate 2.985" COAL, which seems like *just enough* to handle a 284 with the long, heavy, high BC bullets.
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

I have shot the 7mm magnums since the late 60's. I have no idea of how many animals I have shot with them. I can say that elk, moose grizzly, brown and black bears. Many kinds of African antlope, sheep and deer. I have used 7mm mauser, 7 Rem mag, 7 Weatherby, and a 375 H&H necked to 7mm with no changes. All kill well. Range is the factor. Barrel life averages 8-1100 rds on the magnums. The 375 necked down shoots a 150 grain bullet 3400 out of a 24" barrel. 26" will do the same with a 160. With rangefinders of today, I do not know if that is all nessassary.
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

Well, 7mm RM is good caliber, i have used it a lot.
Still IMHO 7mm RM is not so accurate, than 7mm WSM. Of course it is ok for sniping & hunting, it has great ballistics. But 7mm RM is harder to tune and it burns lot of powder, and barrel heats up fast. WSM´s case is shorter, which is better. Action can be littlebit shorter, etc.

I would not recommend .284, it burns barrel in no time.... but hey, it is your choice
smile.gif
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ktdls7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Since this is a hunting rifle, an important consideration is factory ammo availability. Besides the myriad factory loads available for any game, if you got in a crunch, you can even go to WallyWorld and get ammo....

You can't go wrong with a 7mm RM.

Kevin </div></div>

+1
I hunt frequently in Quebec and have seen 7mmRM in the smallest gas stations/general stores. Hard to imaging finding .284 or one of the short magnums in east bum*uck. Something to consider for a 'main' hunting rifle.

Good luck

Jerry
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jimmy76</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I would not recommend .284, it burns barrel in no time.... but hey, it is your choice
smile.gif
</div></div>

define "in no time". i'm at 2900 rounds and it's still shooting as good as ever.
 
Re: Let's talk 7mm choices ....

I have a remington 700 In 7-08 cut down to 18", and rechambered to SAMMI specs, and it can push the 162 Amax at 2710fps, I also run a 280AI, with a custom action and 26" Rock 1 in 8.7 twist that easily push the 162 Amax at 3000fps.

I have yet to shoot the 7-08 at over 100 yards, but the 280AI has made cold bore hits at 1167 yards with ease and hits at almost 1400 yards, the farthest I have been able to shoot.

I love those great 7mm bullets.