Lightweight SPR style AR-15

[nuclear_shooter]

I've just barely finished getting the parts together for my 260 rem AR and I'm already planning my next build. Yes, its a sickness . I really like the idea of a SPR style AR with 77gr for practice out to 600-700 yards. These systems seem cheaper to feed as well as to build. I would like to build something that isn't top of the line, but shoots quite nice, with an heavy emphasis on lightweight.

Right now I'm just in the preliminary planning/fantasizing stage, but here is a rough outline:
Rainier UltraMatch SPR (seems like a good value option, suggestions welcome).
BCM upper/lower or possibly Mega. Would like Seekins but not sure I can justify the cost here. Suggestions welcome. Remember, going for value here.

Where I really need some advise is the two areas where its really easy to add weight: the rail and stock. I know this is the area where you can pick up weight if you aren't careful. Was thinking of going A2 stock but worry about the cheekweld. PRS has the features I like (14.3 LOP, cheek riser) but adds considerable weight. Suggestions welcome!

 

[ORD]

How "light" do you want it to be when all is said and done? That's where I'd start because it is REALLY easy to get way out there in weight before you even realize it.

For example...that 18" SPR barrel from RA weighs over 2.5lbs and is far from what you'd call a "lightweight" option for all intents and purposes, but they are highly capable barrels in terms of performance.

95% of the quality, aluminum or CF handguards/rails for a rifle-length setup (12" or so) will come in around 10-12oz incl the barrel nut but without any add-on rails, etc. That includes most offering from Apex, Lancer, JP, RA, Seekins, Troy, etc. It really comes down to picking one that best meets your particular wants/needs/etc.

For a receiver set...for just a basic, no-frills build like what you are talking about, its hard to beat something along the lines of the Aero Precision/Matrix matched upper/lower forged sets at <$150. That gets you a basic, mil-spec upper/lower, black annodizing, etc., etc. that will work well on just about any build.

As for a lighter weight buttstock option that will give you just a bit more than the basic A2 without weighing a ton and giving you features you may not really even need or want for a light build, check out the Magpul MOE Rifle stocks (as seen here: FIXED & PRECISION ADJUSTABLE STOCKS ? AR15/M16 Type Rifles, FN FAL, HK G3 - MOE® Rifle Stock ). It offers a bit better cheekweld than the basic A2 with a slightly shorter (~5/8 shorter) LOP which can be lengthened with enhanced buttplate options offered by Magpul if you need more like me which will get you up to ~14in LOP. They also weigh in at a pretty light 14oz which is nearly half that of the PRS and just a hair less than the A2.

 

[nuclear_shooter]

How "light" do you want it to be when all is said and done? That's where I'd start because it is REALLY easy to get way out there in weight before you even realize it.

For example...that 18" SPR barrel from RA weighs over 2.5lbs and is far from what you'd call a "lightweight" option for all intents and purposes, but they are highly capable barrels in terms of performance.

95% of the quality, aluminum or CF handguards/rails for a rifle-length setup (12" or so) will come in around 10-12oz incl the barrel nut but without any add-on rails, etc. That includes most offering from Apex, Lancer, JP, RA, Seekins, Troy, etc. It really comes down to picking one that best meets your particular wants/needs/etc.

For a receiver set...for just a basic, no-frills build like what you are talking about, its hard to beat something along the lines of the Aero Precision/Matrix matched upper/lower forged sets at <$150. That gets you a basic, mil-spec upper/lower, black annodizing, etc., etc. that will work well on just about any build.

As for a lighter weight buttstock option that will give you just a bit more than the basic A2 without weighing a ton and giving you features you may not really even need or want for a light build, check out the Magpul MOE Rifle stocks (as seen here: FIXED & PRECISION ADJUSTABLE STOCKS ? AR15/M16 Type Rifles, FN FAL, HK G3 - MOE® Rifle Stock ). It offers a bit better cheekweld than the basic A2 with a slightly shorter (~5/8 shorter) LOP which can be lengthened with enhanced buttplate options offered by Magpul if you need more like me which will get you up to ~14in LOP. They also weigh in at a pretty light 14oz which is nearly half that of the PRS and just a hair less than the A2.

What I say by light is up for some discussion. I would love to have a complete rifle that weights around 7-8 lbs with optic (unloaded). If I run the numbers, a quick guesstimate for the rifle weight is a bit over 6 lbs pre-optic. I probably forgot to figure in some parts/underestimated some parts so if it came out to 7lbs naked I'd be pretty happy. I'm not trying to build an ultralight gun.

That MOE looks like the ticket. I've got a friend with a spare one who will probably lend it to me to try/buy it as well.

I will look into that upper/lower. After some thought, I can't really see spending the extra $ on a billet set, especially with the wide variety of good forged options. I also prefer the lack of forward assist on the Areo set.

I quick estimate of cost for the naked rifle is somewhere around 1300 give or take a few 100, which is very good.

 

[jasonfaz]

My 2¢.... Outside of Proof Research's 25.5oz 18" barrel at $950, you're looking at either the DD S2W, Satern & Wilson at 31-32oz all around $290s. Might consider running a 16" w/ML gas?

I'd also look at Strike Industries' handguards. Their 9" keymod comes in at 5.8oz. I think the 12" is in the 7oz range. On the stock, MFT's minimalist is mid 5oz and gives you just under an inch more LOP than a CTR/MOE.

Curious to see how this build ends up turning out for you. GL

 

[shooterman_zero17]

From reading around the internets, I've heard claims of near half-MOA on WOA 16" Match barrels without application of match ammo...take it for what it's worth, as the XM193 claim had me raise an eyebrow...not to call into question the obvious proven potential of White Oak barrels...I had my sights set on one beforehand and certainly still do.

I rather like the URX 3.1 but the new Keymod Rail from Bravo Company sounds like it will certainly be a winner in the realm of lightweight offerings, since lightweight is what you're looking for... The new BCM4 Upper from Bravo will be what I rebuild/build off of from now on as it sounds like a winner too...

I've considered swapping my Magpul ACS-L with Battleline SAPR for a MOE or CTR with the SAPR just to shed a little extra weight off the weapon. Keep in mind the SAPR adds length to the stock and the ACS/ACS-L have a smidge longer LOP than other stocks to begin with.

Do not count out a good trigger either. Whenever I start pricing a build I default to a Geiselle SD-C right off the bat. No more single stage milspec...

 

[DWood]

I am building an SPRish right now, and though I have not weighed individual parts, I think it will be about as light as it can get, with the parts I want, and still be able to be called SPRish. To me, the barrel and trigger are the key. You can get a lighter barrel, but then is it really in the SPR category. Mine is a WOA SS SPR 1-7 .223 Wylde, rifle length, which to me is the heart of the build. DD upper (will consider Aero Precision next time), BCM barrel nut, DD BCG, Ranier low pro gas block, Spikes gas tube, Troy 13" Alpha rail, Gunfighter Mod 4 charging handle, BAD 1.0 comp. I have a Harris and Atlas bipod and will run either, but the Atlas already has a mount and I have to buy one to get the Harris on picatinny.

LMT complete lower that I just put a Geissele DMR trigger in, and sporting a Magpul CTR.

Optics: 23 OZ Leupold Mark 6 3-18X in a Larue SPR mount. Love the Spuhr cantileverd mount but I'm not spending $400 on it.

I am comfortable calling this build SPR like. And however much it wieghs, it will be as light as I could make it and still get what I want into the build.

 

[map_it]

I just threw together a SPR type hunting rig in 6.8SPC. I really did not expect too much from the set-up as most of the parts are NON-Match and used...

Bravo Company Upper
ARP 18" SPR profile w/ ARP Brake
9" Larue Rail
Daniel Defense BCG
I just threw a spare lower on it a DPMS I had in the safe (SSA-E Trigger)
Nightforce 2.5-10x24 Optic

At 100 yards with no proper load development it shot 2 groups one at .5" and one at .6".
I plan to take the barrel off and square the upper receiver bed the barrel extension with blue lock tight and dial in a proper load.

Eventually this is going to be my dedicated Night Vision set-up with a PVS14 and an EO Tech as I'm still trying to put together parts for the MK12 Mod1 build for the Nightforce optic.

But really these ARs do pretty well as long as you watch the torque settings on the barrel nut and the muzzle device.

As to the weight it is much lighter than my LR-308 or my GAP Rock .308..... I've been hunting with....

 

[nuclear_shooter]

Thanks for all the info guys. Several guys have suggested 16" but I really think I want to go with 18". Does anybody have experiance with the MV differences or even better, examples MV with 77gr SMK though both 16" and 18"? I don't think the weight is so dire that I need to drop it down to a 16" barrel. Seems like the weight difference is only a couple of oz (depending on barrel profile et cetera).

As for trigger, I def will go SSA-E. Milspec triggers aren't worth it with precision AR's.

I also looked into the SAPR but it seems heavy and expensive. I'm going to see about trying the MOE rifle stock on my 260 to see how I like it/the cheekweld.

 

[rjacobs]

sub 7lbs on a 18" with a real SPR profile barrel and an optic will NEVER NEVER NEVER happen.

I built a REAL light weight 16" gun with a pencil 16" barrel(DD LW mid length) with a Noveske NSR 11", MOE stock, etc... Basically as light as possible(maybe could shave an ounce or two with a different hand guard and using a lighter bolt carrier), but it was 6.7lbs with no optic and no mag.

I would guess minimum weight on a build with a REAL SPR profile barrel would be at least 8lbs if not a little more. Add an optic(at least 1.5lbs with mount) and you are 9.5, more likely 10lbs. The SPR barrel profile is almost 2.5 lbs(38.5oz if I remember correctly) by itself.

Using one of the 18" S2W barrels from DD or maybe one of the newer 18" 3 gun barrels that a few companies are coming out with you could shave .75-1lb off of an SPR barrel, but you might not have the accuracy you desire.

SPR guns are great, I am collecting parts for a build now, and are VERY capable for gas guns, but light weight they are not.

 

[nuclear_shooter]

sub 7lbs on a 18" with a real SPR profile barrel and an optic will NEVER NEVER NEVER happen.

I built a REAL light weight 16" gun with a pencil 16" barrel(DD LW mid length) with a Noveske NSR 11", MOE stock, etc... Basically as light as possible(maybe could shave an ounce or two with a different hand guard and using a lighter bolt carrier), but it was 6.7lbs with no optic and no mag.

I would guess minimum weight on a build with a REAL SPR profile barrel would be at least 8lbs if not a little more. Add an optic(at least 1.5lbs with mount) and you are 9.5, more likely 10lbs. The SPR barrel profile is almost 2.5 lbs(38.5oz if I remember correctly) by itself.

Using one of the 18" S2W barrels from DD or maybe one of the newer 18" 3 gun barrels that a few companies are coming out with you could shave .75-1lb off of an SPR barrel, but you might not have the accuracy you desire.

SPR guns are great, I am collecting parts for a build now, and are VERY capable for gas guns, but light weight they are not.

I'd be perfectly happy with a 7-8 lbs naked gun. I think with the right choice of parts that seems very doable. When I say lightweight I just mean I don't want some 12 lbs AR-15.

 

[MSTN]

The term "SPR style" will mean different things to different people. To some, it will mean a correct SPR length barrel format upper, or maybe even a reasonably accurate SPR clone of Mod 0 or Mod 1 format. To others, it will mean a reasonably lightweight, tactical, precision AR' build with a barrel 16" to 18" in length.

No matter what you do to an AR' upper, you can never make it shoot better than its barrel is capable of doing. But, you can take the world's best AR' barrel and screw it up easily with less than optimum supporting components.

An upper with a shorter barrel of a given quality and mass will generally outshoot one with a longer barrel of the same quality and mass. The velocity loss with shorter barrels is less than you'd think. And worth it for mounted and/or urban ops.

Why put more weight and bulk into a marginally lethal caliber weapon than the absolute minimum required? It's customary to think of the receiver as the foundation of the weapon, but with an AR', the foundation is literally the barrel.

After the barrel, what's important? I'm thinking that we want things to be properly aligned, rigid, everything straight, and therefore repeatable in terms of performance. In no particular order of importance, since any one of these factors can ruin your best efforts in all others:

1. Optimum bolt fit, with a top quality bolt. A thou' off SAAMI minimum is what I like for accuracy with match grade ammo. In the middle of the headspace spectrum for optimum reliability plus accuracy in a hard-use gun. I'm not talking go & no-go gauges, but headspace gauges in 0.001" increments. And enough spare bolts to have a good selection. The builders who don't use them will I guarantee tell you that's not important.

2. You need the best bolt carrier you can afford, ideally manufactured to the strictest standards with a hard, slick, no-stick coating that will hold up well. It's one of the few "moving parts". "Price is one measure of value" applies.

3. The primary support system for the BCG is the upper receiver. We're so fortunate to have so many superlative choices today. And so much crap to challenge us. Drop a good steel straight edge on top of your favorite upper receiver and look if any light comes between them. Look inside to check the symmetry of the wear pattern from the bolt carrier.

3. Muzzle device. There are so many really popular muzzle devices out there that absolutely destroy accuracy that I can't help but be amazed nobody throws the bullshit flag. Never underestimate the power of advertising and the internet fanboys taking carbine classes where the longest shot is 50 yards. If you want to see what works, look at what people who shoot for money use - the ones that win consistently year after year, that is. Hint: You can start with Taran Butler and Mike Voight. If you don't like the blast and flash of a brake, check out what the real world high speed guys use on the end of their weapons.

4. Gas system length. For best accuracy, I personally like the longest length gas system that the barrel length can reliably use. It's one of those magic harmonics things you can't see. Smoother recoil pulse. No, I can't prove it.

5. Scope mount. This is a great place to get silly trying to save a couple of ounces and screw your accuracy potential long, hard, and deep. As time goes by, I'm leaning more and more toward serious overkill in this department. If Spuhr mounts didn't cost $450 each, I'd have them on everything.

5. Stock. You can get a better cheek weld with any number of carbine stocks than the PRS. With a 1.4" to 1.5" high scope mount, you have no real need for an adjustable cheek piece that can justify the increased weight in a marginally lethal caliber weapon.

6. Did you think at this point I had forgotten that single major fashion statement of the AR-15 world, the AR' forend? So long as a forend free floating, with a design where the barrel nut will not come loose under hard use, plus a means to attach a bipod, they're pretty much the same form an accuracy point of view. We can all have our favorites and still be friendly, right? Isn't a remarkable amount of engineering talent expended every year designing new ones, with new and improved features, for us to lust over?

Where all this engineering needs to be directed is not at the forend. I think making the barrel/receiver junction as rigid as possible within reasonable weight standards is way more crucial. The LMT MRP holds the crown in the rigidity department, and KeyMod equipped is no longer a pig, but getting your favorite X-Ray Blaster barrel in it is a no-go. If Karl doesn't want you to have it … The Vltor VIS is a top rigidity contender, especially nice now that it's been slimmed down with the KeyMod option. The Seekins receiver/forend system with externally threaded titanium barrel nut looks potentially good in this department (Work on that QC and CS, Seekins!). Milling a KAC URX for a hard fit on its host receiver to get that sexy no-line fit fashion statement has had the unintended consequence of a surprisingly rigid final product.

I'm sure there are many more great receiver/forend products of which I'm not even aware.

Good shooting.

 

[steppenwolf]

Where I really need some advise is the two areas where its really easy to add weight: the rail and stock. I know this is the area where you can pick up weight if you aren't careful. Was thinking of going A2 stock but worry about the cheekweld. PRS has the features I like (14.3 LOP, cheek riser) but adds considerable weight. Suggestions welcome!

Well, on my WOA SPR, with 18" SS 1/7 twist barrel, it initially came with a 12" DD quad rail and a fixed A1-length stock.
I replaced the quad rail with a 12" PRI 3rd Gen tube and ditched the A1 for a Magpul CTR/LT RISR cheekpiece combo.
Replacing the quad rail, most of which was never used anyway except for a bipod, cut the weight quite a bit.
Further weight savings was gained with the CTR/RISR stock. The CTR's adjustment range takes care of LOP while the RISR CP, for me anyway, places my sighting eye perfectly for the 2.5-10x Vortex mounted in the low AD mount.

The scope and its mount and the bipod are, IMO, the three constants as far as weight.

There's really nothing to be done about the weight of the 18" SS WOA SPR barrel, nor would I modify anything there, given how it shoots.

Weight-wise, it handles much better now, while still shooting like you'd want an "SPR-type" rifle to. It's accuracy potential is, of course, handicapped by the shooter, which is to say, me

 

[rjacobs]

I'd be perfectly happy with a 7-8 lbs naked gun. I think with the right choice of parts that seems very doable. When I say lightweight I just mean I don't want some 12 lbs AR-15.

I would guess if you went with a Noveske NSR forearm or one of the new BCM's you would get close to the 8lbs mark. 7lbs with an SPR barrel just aint in the cards. The SPR barrel is almost 1.4lbs heavier than the light weight barrel I used which would take that gun from a 6.7lb gun to an 8lb gun. Throw an optic on you're now at ~9.5lbs. Throw a Harris bi-pod on and now you are at probably 10.5lbs. Thats a bare minimum weight that you will be at unloaded, with optic and bi-pod. Add a lb for a loaded mag.

The BCM hand guard is currently the lightest offering. MI Gen 2 SSK comes in next. Noveske NSR is next with Geissele Mk4 coming in next.

When I get my SPR built here in 2 weeks or so(waiting on barrel from CLE) ill weight it all and report.

 

[DWood]

5. Scope mount. This is a great place to get silly trying to save a couple of ounces and screw your accuracy potential long, hard, and deep. As time goes by, I'm leaning more and more toward serious overkill in this department. If Spuhr mounts didn't cost $450 each, I'd have them on everything.

Have you been able to mount a scope with rings instead of the cantileverd mounts that I see in many of the photos you have posted?

I am trying to decide on the mount for my Mark 6 3-18X that is inbound from Liberty Optics. It weighs 23 OZ and is less than 12" long. I was hoping to be able to use Badger alloy 34 mm rings since the Leupold is very compact. Most every photo I have seen of the real or clone Mod 0 SPRs has the front ring forward of the barrel nut though. No big deal with the PRI continuous rail, but I am using a Troy Alpha so I may have to use a cantileverd mount to keep the scope on the receiver.

PS Love the Spuhr cantileverd mount too. Maybe someday.

 

[flatland1]

I built myself a new 'truck gun' a couple of years ago, based on RRA receivers, DD M4-12 rail, and a 24" Krieger 1-7 HBAR that I chambered with a Wylde reamer. I went cheap and used a RRA Operator CAR stock. Sucker shoots bugholes with S77MK/IMR8208 reloads, but by the time I'd hung an Atlas bipod, RRA Scout rail/Nikon 30mm 4-16x50 tactical in STEEL TPS TSR rings, 4Sevens G5 Mailstorm light, and Vickers Combat Applications sling on it, it'd turned into a little pig, at 13lbs with 18rds in a GI 20rd mag. The combination of weight & length made it darned difficult to maneuver out of the back seat & out the window for quick shots at running coyotes or badgers (at 62, I've got enough arthritis in my shoulders to make 'em bark at me when I try to do stuff like that). I always carry a rifle & extra ammo on my evening walks down on the creek bottoms, and this thing was starting to feel heavier than I wanted to carry a couple of miles.

So when Brownells started selling WOA SPR bbls, I ordered an 18" w/mid-length gas system. Put it in an Aero Precision M4 upper/RRA lower with RRA TRO extended handguard, used a Weaver #99675 20 MOA scope rail with a Weaver 1" Super Slam 3-15x42 scope in aluminum TPS TSR rings, and went with an ACS stock on commercial tube. Weight with a Vickers sling & 18rds in a MagPul 20rd mag is 10lbs 14oz. I know that's not that much lighter than the 24" heavy AR, but it's a lot handier in the truck, and feels much lighter when I'm carrying while walking.

An added bonus is that this relatively light & inexpensive WOA/Wilson bbl shoots about as well at 600yds as the heavier 24" Krieger with the same S77MK/8208 ammo. First 5-shot group I shot with it at 600 measured 4-1/4", which is pretty close to minute-of-coyote.

 

[BCP]

Does anybody have experiance with the MV differences or even better, examples MV with 77gr SMK though both 16" and 18"?

I was getting 2630fps for 24 varget and a 77 from my 16" rainier ultra and about 2660 from my 18" white oak.

The lightest handguards I can think of that don't cost a ton of money are the midwest Gen 2s, I have a 12" quad rail and it is less than a pound barrel nut and all. Mayb 14oz? If I were to do a lighter weight rifle I'd be tempted to try their 10" gen 2 slim tube and a 14.5 or 16" 'lightweight' barrel from Brownells. Forgot who makes them but they are nitrided and have a satisfaction guarantee.

 

[MSTN]

Have you been able to mount a scope with rings instead of the cantileverd mounts that I see in many of the photos you have posted?

I am trying to decide on the mount for my Mark 6 3-18X that is inbound from Liberty Optics. It weighs 23 OZ and is less than 12" long. I was hoping to be able to use Badger alloy 34 mm rings since the Leupold is very compact. Most every photo I have seen of the real or clone Mod 0 SPRs has the front ring forward of the barrel nut though. No big deal with the PRI continuous rail, but I am using a Troy Alpha so I may have to use a cantileverd mount to keep the scope on the receiver.

PS Love the Spuhr cantileverd mount too. Maybe someday.

Scopes typically have an eye relief requirement in the 3.5" range. To achieve that on a "small block" AR-15, you need a decent forward offset to the scope mount for all scopes of which I'm aware - except that Leupold 2.5-8X they built specifically for the SPR with short eye relief. You do not want the forward ring on the forend, either.

"Big block" guns in .308 have a long enough receiver that a mount with forward offset is not a requirement.

 

[thenorsepole]

I have been looking into building a more precision oriented AR as well. Currently I have been ogling a BCM 20" with their 13" KMR handguard. When I have the $$$ they're out of stock, when I don't have the $$$ they're in stock. The gods are mocking me.

Since weight is a concern I would suggest looking at Tennessee Arms Company's polymer lowers. I have two of them (300Blk & 50 Beowulf builds) and they are well thought out to compensate for issues typically found with polymer. They are more cost effective (currently $45) than some of the aluminum lowers I've been seeing. TAC has worked out the initial bugs and are producing a very solid, viable polymer lower.

+1 on the MOE Fixed Rifle stock.

 

[nuclear_shooter]

I used one of those stupid online AR weight estimators and with a few swapped around parts I came in just shy of 8 lbs. Later tonight I will do a weight budget. I really think I should be able to pull this off. If you guys have enough patients to stick around till the fall, we can see if its possible. If I'm a little over 8 lbs, won't be the end of the world.

Definitely not going with a polymer lower, I'm not that desperate for weight loss.

 

[DWood]

3. Muzzle device. There are so many really popular muzzle devices out there that absolutely destroy accuracy that I can't help but be amazed nobody throws the bullshit flag. Never underestimate the power of advertising and the internet fanboys taking carbine classes where the longest shot is 50 yards. If you want to see what works, look at what people who shoot for money use - the ones that win consistently year after year, that is. Hint: You can start with Taran Butler and Mike Voight. If you don't like the blast and flash of a brake, check out what the real world high speed guys use on the end of their weapons.

Now this is interesting. I have the option of an AAC Blackout 51T flash hider and BCM 1.0 among parts on hand for my build. The AAC will allow me to use my AAC 7.62-SDN-6. Are you saying that a muzzle brake will make any real difference in accuracy than either of those muzzle devices when shooting without the suppressor? I also see that the AAC muzzle brake is a good price at Ranier right now and could possibly opt for that muzzle device. It's not the Ops-Inc or Surefire, but does it compare favorably. I already own the suppressor so changing brands is not an option. I have other rifles the other two devices can go on so they won't go to waste.

 

[rchman]

I'm just finishing up my lightweight, precision build. It'll be 6.27 pounds. The only way I could make it lighter would be to use an Ace Ultralight stock (savings of 7oz) and a magnesium lower (-2oz).

Noveske makes a lightweight 18" SS barrel. It's still a heavier profile than pencil barrels, so hopefully shouldn't see much POI drift under sustained firing.

Just a warning, going lightweight gets super expensive.

Here's the build (some of the weights are estimates as I get the pieces in):

Upper
Aero Precision No FA Upper 7.3
JP Low Mass BCG 6.25
JP Bolt 2.5
Charging Handle 1.4
Centurion CMR Rail 10.7
Seekins Adj Gas Block 2.5??
Gas Tube 0.7
Noveske LW 16” 28
Surefire MB 3.6

Upper Weight 62.95 oz
3.93 lbs

Lower
Mega AR15 Lower 7.86
LPK 8.2
Ace Skeleton Stock w/ .5” pad and recv extension 15.8
LMOS Buffer Assy 5.5

Lower Weight 37.36oz
2.335 lbs

Total Rifle Weight 6.27 lbs


I'll be topping it with a NF 2.5-10x (19oz) and TPS rings (I think are 3oz). If I can't get a good sight picture, I'll get the NF Unimount which weighs in at 4.7oz.

 

[DWood]

Internet search located many opinions on muzzle brakes and accuracy, but not much information based on testing or comparison. MSTN had a good post in another forum, even though it was quite old. I did find the video on the link below. I wish they had a shot of the AAC I am considering. I know, I know, naked barrel resting directly on supprt, but I believe the intent was to show recoil and not about accuracy.

AR comp muzzle brake slow motion comparison test - YouTube

Anyone have links to other muzzle brake comparisons?

 

[jake6547]

Kind of funny how the big dumb looking brakes don't do any better

 

[Pinkycatcher]

My match AR is close to 7lbs. Here's what I have on it: 18" Nordic 1:8 Rifle length gas barrel (made by Wilson), AP customs 15" Carbon fiber forend, Mag tactical lower, Magpul CTR, and a Burris XTR in a PEPR mount. If you want more of an SPR you can always throw a Bipod on it.

I think a carbon fiber forend is one of the best weight savers possible.

 

[nuclear_shooter]

Has anybody tried the CTR cheek risers on a precision rifle? Not sure if its worth it weight wise, plus would need to add LOP to get 14.5"...

 

[Accusource8541]

Yep, my SPR is about 9.5 pounds with a light ass Leupold MK AR scope on it.

 

[rjacobs]

I think a carbon fiber forend is one of the best weight savers possible.

Most of the carbon fiber forends I have looked at didnt save much at all over some of the new light weight aluminum(or magnesium in BCM's case) hand guards.

 

[MSTN]

The easiest way to save weight is to reduce the mass of the heaviest component, the barrel. But, if you want sustainable accuracy, too, go with a shorter barrel, not lighter contour.

16" Noveske custom intermediate length gas system, 32.8 ounces:

14.5" Noveske Afghan with mi-length gas system, 31.1 ounces:

Edited to add: Five minutes of research on BCM's new forend and I realize what I said above is just outdated.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-KMR13-Free-Float-Handguard-p/bcm-kmr13.htm

A 7.7 ounce 13" forend?!? There's a way to save some weight, brother.

 

[steppenwolf]

MSTN: 3. Muzzle device. There are so many really popular muzzle devices out there that absolutely destroy accuracy that I can't help but be amazed nobody throws the bullshit flag. * * *

Just a learning question, but I'm considering replacing the A2 FH on the 16" barrel of my 7.62 LM8 MRP with Battlecomp's BABC. The unit is supplied w/ a crush washer.

Are you aware of any accuracy-detracting concerns with the 7.62 BABC?
I haven't see any negative reports from people who are running the BABC on a .308 AR, but I could have missed something.
Thanks.

 

[zeke01]

FYI, Rainier just released their gen 2 RUC rifles in 16" and 18" with listed weights at 6 lbs 1.4 oz and 6 lbs. 8.2 oz respectively. Build components look pretty decent too so it should be possible to build something pretty light if these are anything to go by.

 

[tylerw02]

Were I a wealthy man that had some extra money to burn and an itch to scratch, here's what I'd do:

Bravo Company 16" 410 stainless mid-length KMR upper, BCM bolt carrier group, BCM Mod 4 Gunfighter charge handle. KAC 200-600 rear, KAC front, Surefire flash hider.

Bobro precision rifle optic mount, Leupold 3-18x44 Mark 6 TMR.

Bravo Company lower, Giessele SSA trigger, B5 enhanced SOPMOD stock. Throw on an Atlas and you'd be ready to rock. This would be a light, handy rifle with plenty of accuracy and range with descent ammunition. Those new KMRs are LIGHT!

 

[MSTN]

Here's the world's lightest useful forend, the new Vltor KMR:

 

[nuclear_shooter]

Haven't seen the Seekins rails mentioned here. How do they compare? I'm specifically looking at the MCSRv2. They don't list their weights on their site. I did a quick google and came up with the following numbers on a retailers site:

7" MCSR=7.7oz
9" MCSR=8.4oz
10 MCSR=9.1oz
12" MCSR=10.5oz
15" MCSR=11.9oz

If true, I'm not sure why they don't advertise this as they are fairly competitive. Seekins, if your reading this, I would love to see numbers on your site. MCSR V2 Mod Rail, they say its lightweight but don't list numbers... unless I missed something. I really like Seekins and feel like you get a lot for the money.

 

[ORD]

Haven't seen the Seekins rails mentioned here. How do they compare? I'm specifically looking at the MCSRv2. They don't list their weights on their site. I did a quick google and came up with the following numbers on a retailers site:

7" MCSR=7.7oz
9" MCSR=8.4oz
10 MCSR=9.1oz
12" MCSR=10.5oz
15" MCSR=11.9oz

If true, I'm not sure why they don't advertise this as they are fairly competitive. Seekins, if your reading this, I would love to see numbers on your site. MCSR V2 Mod Rail, they say its lightweight but don't list numbers... unless I missed something. I really like Seekins and feel like you get a lot for the money.

To the best of my knowledge, those are the correct weights by length (they are listed by JoeBobs and others). They are truly excellent, as is the case with ALL Seekins Precision products and the man himself! I personally like the SP3R rails which have the flat, 2" wide bottom section, but the MCSRv2 is also excellent!

 

[nuclear_shooter]

To the best of my knowledge, those are the correct weights by length (they are listed by JoeBobs and others). They are truly excellent, as is the case with ALL Seekins Precision products and the man himself! I personally like the SP3R rails which have the flat, 2" wide bottom section, but the MCSRv2 is also excellent!

That one looks interesting, but I would really like to lay hands on one before buying. I'd want to do a full Seekins build, but I don't think I can justify the cost of their set. Did some looking and the reviews on that Aero Precision seem quite good. May grab up a couple while I'm at it.

 

[DWood]

My build is now finished and weighs 8 lb. 12 oz. without a scope or mount. I built the upper the way I wanted it rather than focus on weight as the OP is. ORD was right, the weight adds up quickly.

DD upper
18" WOA SPR barrel
Troy 13" Alpha rail w/ one picatinny section at 6:00 for bipod and 2 sets of Squid Grips
Ranier low pro gas block and spikes gas tube
BCM barrel nut
AAC blackout FH
DD F/A bcg
Atlas bipod with ADM QD mount
Gunfighter Mod 4 CH

LMT Defender lower w/ Geissele DMR trigger
20 round P Mag (unloaded)
Magpul MOE stock w/ Larue POD (Prone Optimazation Device)
Ergo grip

With the Leupold MK 6 3-18X and ADM Recon mount it weighs 10 lb. 13 oz.

Now I could have eliminated some weight with a 1-6 or 2.5-10 optic, but I want the higher magnification. I believe ORD is right, the barrel is the biggest weight issue. BUT, my goal was to build this upper around the WOA SPR 18" barrel and Geissele trigger. I hope it will be a shooter, and Monday I will find out.

Will post photos tomorrow.

 

[ORD]

That one looks interesting, but I would really like to lay hands on one before buying. I'd want to do a full Seekins build, but I don't think I can justify the cost of their set. Did some looking and the reviews on that Aero Precision seem quite good. May grab up a couple while I'm at it.

My last AR for myself within the last year was a complete Seekins major component (upper/lower/rail/etc.; not the barrel, etc.) using an SP223 billet lower, iRMT-3 upper, and 15" SP3R rail. Its a HAMMER, particular with all of the factory and reloaded 75gr and 77gr I've run through it! Here's a link to the now somewhat outdated thread I started on that project (needs badly updated with pics since finished with optics/mount/bipod and some proof targets, but you get the idea...Rob01 also has a damned nice Seekins full-build SP3G floating around in a thread he started that is another shining example of the quality that Seekins puts out). http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...03604-seekins-sp223-precision-ar-project.html

If you find an SP3R handguard you can try out, they'll mount up to any standard flattop upper (incl. the Aero Precision upper) with the mounting block that's included with the rail itself...you don't have to buy the Seekins iRMT-3 upper to make it work.

 

[260shooter]

Thanks for all the info guys. Several guys have suggested 16" but I really think I want to go with 18". Does anybody have experiance with the MV differences or even better, examples MV with 77gr SMK though both 16" and 18"? I don't think the weight is so dire that I need to drop it down to a 16" barrel. Seems like the weight difference is only a couple of oz (depending on barrel profile et cetera).

As for trigger, I def will go SSA-E. Milspec triggers aren't worth it with precision AR's.

I also looked into the SAPR but it seems heavy and expensive. I'm going to see about trying the MOE rifle stock on my 260 to see how I like it/the cheekweld.

I just played with some 77 Nosler CC and IMR 8208 thru a Noveske 18" and a 16" Rainier Ultra Match. Same load through both 65 fps between the two.

 

[nuclear_shooter]

My last AR for myself within the last year was a complete Seekins major component (upper/lower/rail/etc.; not the barrel, etc.) using an SP223 billet lower, iRMT-3 upper, and 15" SP3R rail. Its a HAMMER, particular with all of the factory and reloaded 75gr and 77gr I've run through it! Here's a link to the now somewhat outdated thread I started on that project (needs badly updated with pics since finished with optics/mount/bipod and some proof targets, but you get the idea...Rob01 also has a damned nice Seekins full-build SP3G floating around in a thread he started that is another shining example of the quality that Seekins puts out). http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...03604-seekins-sp223-precision-ar-project.html

If you find an SP3R handguard you can try out, they'll mount up to any standard flattop upper (incl. the Aero Precision upper) with the mounting block that's included with the rail itself...you don't have to buy the Seekins iRMT-3 upper to make it work.

Such an enabler! The Seekins set (upper/lower) is ~ $530 (sure, maybe you can get a better deal but not *that* much better), vs the Aero at $155. Its hard for me to justify the difference!

 

[nuclear_shooter]

I just played with some 77 Nosler CC and IMR 8208 thru a Noveske 18" and a 16" Rainier Ultra Match. Same load through both 65 fps between the two.

Interesting. What was the velocity of the 16"?

 

[260shooter]

Interesting. What was the velocity of the 16"?

Reshot the load with (maybe) the final powder charge. The difference was larger today. The 18" chronoed 2664 fps avg and the 16" chronoed 2547 fps avg. Which comes out to a 117 fps defference. Both are 3/4 MOA accurate at 300 and 400 yards

 

[nuclear_shooter]

t

Reshot the load with (maybe) the final powder charge. The difference was larger today. The 18" chronoed 2664 fps avg and the 16" chronoed 2547 fps avg. Which comes out to a 117 fps defference. Both are 3/4 MOA accurate at 300 and 400 yards

With 77gr Bergers, the 18" gets you -8.2 mils at 800, where as the 16" gets you -9.1 mils at 800 (using your numbers). Will be a nice rifle either way...

 

[nuclear_shooter]

My build is now finished and weighs 8 lb. 12 oz. without a scope or mount. I built the upper the way I wanted it rather than focus on weight as the OP is. ORD was right, the weight adds up quickly.

DD upper
18" WOA SPR barrel
Troy 13" Alpha rail w/ one picatinny section at 6:00 for bipod and 2 sets of Squid Grips
Ranier low pro gas block and spikes gas tube
BCM barrel nut
AAC blackout FH
DD F/A bcg
Atlas bipod with ADM QD mount
Gunfighter Mod 4 CH

LMT Defender lower w/ Geissele DMR trigger
20 round P Mag (unloaded)
Magpul MOE stock w/ Larue POD (Prone Optimazation Device)
Ergo grip

With the Leupold MK 6 3-18X and ADM Recon mount it weighs 10 lb. 13 oz.

Now I could have eliminated some weight with a 1-6 or 2.5-10 optic, but I want the higher magnification. I believe ORD is right, the barrel is the biggest weight issue. BUT, my goal was to build this upper around the WOA SPR 18" barrel and Geissele trigger. I hope it will be a shooter, and Monday I will find out.

Will post photos tomorrow.

Curious to hear how this works out for you. Did you do the mid length gas SPR or rifle length SPR from WOA? For some reason they offer both. Also did you coat the barrel or just run it stainless? Curious to hear how it shoots as well!

 

[DWood]

Curious to hear how this works out for you. Did you do the mid length gas SPR or rifle length SPR from WOA? For some reason they offer both. Also did you coat the barrel or just run it stainless? Curious to hear how it shoots as well!

It is rifle length, and left raw SS. I plan to take it out for the first time Friday to function test with live ammo and to zero. I may change out the Magpul MOE stock; it doesn't lock rock solid. I have a CTR on another rifle I can swap, but will shoot with the MOE first.

 

[MSTN]

Just a learning question, but I'm considering replacing the A2 FH on the 16" barrel of my 7.62 LM8 MRP with Battlecomp's BABC. The unit is supplied w/ a crush washer.

Are you aware of any accuracy-detracting concerns with the 7.62 BABC?
I haven't see any negative reports from people who are running the BABC on a .308 AR, but I could have missed something.
Thanks.

I've never tried the .308 version.

Twice I've tried the 5.56mm version with somewhat less than happy results in the accuracy department. The gun? Me? The load? Who knows. I don't have the time or money to do anything approaching true scientific testing. My take is the Battlecomp is a compromise that doesn't seem to do anything especially well in terms of flash, recoil, or accuracy.

There are enough good shooting muzzle devices out there that I don't feel limited by simply avoiding the ones that show anything but good accuracy results from the start.

 

[WaveNature]

I've never tried the .308 version.

Twice I've tried the 5.56mm version with somewhat less than happy results in the accuracy department. The gun? Me? The load? Who knows. I don't have the time or money to do anything approaching true scientific testing. My take is the Battlecomp is a compromise that doesn't seem to do anything especially well in terms of flash, recoil, or accuracy.

There are enough good shooting muzzle devices out there that I don't feel limited by simply avoiding the ones that show anything but good accuracy results from the start.

What are some of your favorite muzzle devices? Do you have any time behind the Vltor or BCM compensators?

 

[TacticalPlinker]

I have a Noveske Team Upper using the 18" lightweight in 1/7 SS with intermediate gas for 3 Gun . Highly recommend this barrel, along with a standard Mega receiver set. Bravo / VLTOR KMR, JP BCG. My barrel Is a freak of nature. Waaay more accurate than I expected. It doesn't get much lighter. Love's 55gr for close work - 77gr BH 5.56 for anything past 200.

 

[Armed Ferret]

Here's the world's lightest useful forend, the new Vltor KMR:

You misspelled "BCM".

 

[Rinky]

sub 7lbs on a 18" with a real SPR profile barrel and an optic will NEVER NEVER NEVER happen.

This. My plain jane as fck ar pistol build is still 6.5lbs.... optics for a spr is easily 2# more. You WILL be toting around AT MINIMUM a 10# spr style rifle.

 

[Tangodown911]

You misspelled "BCM".

Wes,
I take it it's BCM?