LMT .308 MWS

#2,901
Hey guys has anyone experienced problems with their LMT while running a can on it? I have the MWS 16 308 with a Saker suppressor. I am seeing some really weird accuracy, usually i can shoot the gun around 1 moa with 168 GMM ammo, But with a suppressor it opens up to around 2-3 MOA.
 
#2,902
scrumpdeleos said:
Hey guys has anyone experienced problems with their LMT while running a can on it? I have the MWS 16 308 with a Saker suppressor. I am seeing some really weird accuracy, usually i can shoot the gun around 1 moa with 168 GMM ammo, But with a suppressor it opens up to around 2-3 MOA.
Click to expand...
Punches one hole with my surefire can. If it works fine without a can, and not with, generally your can is at fault. Did you check for baffle strikes and make sure your can is centered with a rod? AAC had a bad run of muzzle brakes and caused the same issue with me on a bolt gun... had no clue until a buddy told me to check for strikes and found it was clipping the inside of the tip, causing the groups to open up on an otherwise sub moa bolt gun. Gas issues shouldn’t affect accuracy as the bullet is long gone before anything in the rifle could cause an issue.
 
#2,903
Fenix Mike said:
Punches one hole with my surefire can. If it works fine without a can, and not with, generally your can is at fault. Did you check for baffle strikes and make sure your can is centered with a rod? AAC had a bad run of muzzle brakes and caused the same issue with me on a bolt gun... had no clue until a buddy told me to check for strikes and found it was clipping the inside of the tip, causing the groups to open up on an otherwise sub moa bolt gun. Gas issues shouldn’t affect accuracy as the bullet is long gone before anything in the rifle could cause an issue.
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I put a light through my can and it looks fine, it has an ASR mount and i always make sure it is locked down before shooting. I was reading about barrel harmonics, but was not sure if this was the case or if maybe i need to switch ammo up? or if it is being so over gassed its affecting the velocity.
 
#2,904
I have a Gen I MWS with a chopped 20" barrel to 16" for the longer gas system. When I run my Specwar 762 the groups stay right around .75 to 1.25 MOA with FGMM 168. My issue is the can really overgasses the system and I have the bolt slamming into the next round being fed in the chamber. I take the can off and it runs like a champ. Surplus ammo runs fine with the can on.

The standard barrels have a pretty hefty profile & I wouldn't think harmonics would play too much into accuracy. I also think the brake, how secure the can mounts or something else is going on.
 
#2,905
scrumpdeleos said:
I put a light through my can and it looks fine, it has an ASR mount and i always make sure it is locked down before shooting. I was reading about barrel harmonics, but was not sure if this was the case or if maybe i need to switch ammo up? or if it is being so over gassed its affecting the velocity.
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You can call LMT, but I imagine their answer would be send your rifle and ammo for testing, and likely zero warranty since it functions fine without the suppressor. Ive owned over 30 semi auto 30 cal guns, majority suppressed, and never had an issue with accuracy or anything other than POI shift except for the one that smoked my SDN6 due to the defective brake, which they fixed, and it was flawless after. Most of them were severely over gassed as I hand load and shoot to 1100+ yards, which requires some hot rounds to make consistent hits, and all that did at worst was chew up brass or double feed here and there, because by the time any adverse action has occurred, the bullet has long since left the barrel.

If you dont want to send it to LMT, best bet is put your can on a different rifle, or try another can on your rifle, and see if the problem resolves itself. If by some chance, multiple suppressors cause the issue on your rifle, or your suppressor AND muzzle device work fine on another rifle, there are ULTRA RARE issues such as barrel threading issues or damage to the bore causing deflection, but generally your suppressor would also show issues or at least a hit.

Velocity wouldnt be a factor unless youre running sub sonic since 30 cal bullets often exceed 3,000 FPS in magnum cartridges
 
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#2,906
Fenix Mike said:
You can call LMT, but I imagine their answer would be send your rifle and ammo for testing, and likely zero warranty since it functions fine without the suppressor. Ive owned over 30 semi auto 30 cal guns, majority suppressed, and never had an issue with accuracy or anything other than POI shift except for the one that smoked my SDN6 due to the defective brake, which they fixed, and it was flawless after. Most of them were severely over gassed as I hand load and shoot to 1100+ yards, which requires some hot rounds to make consistent hits, and all that did at worst was chew up brass or double feed here and there, because by the time any adverse action has occurred, the bullet has long since left the barrel.

If you dont want to send it to LMT, best bet is put your can on a different rifle, or try another can on your rifle, and see if the problem resolves itself. If by some chance, multiple suppressors cause the issue on your rifle, or your suppressor AND muzzle device work fine on another rifle, there are ULTRA RARE issues such as barrel threading issues or damage to the bore causing deflection, but generally your suppressor would also show issues or at least a hit.

Velocity wouldnt be a factor unless youre running sub sonic since 30 cal bullets often exceed 3,000 FPS in magnum cartridges
Click to expand...
Awesome I really appreciate the help and input! Thank you sir!!
 
#2,907
I am trying to beat the July 1 Washington State laws that will be enforced around semi-automatics and really want an LMT. I know some suppressors can really over gas an LMT but has anyone tried a Dead Air Sandman S on theirs? If so, do I need to get a Rubber City adjustable gas key?

I can get a lower now then decide which upper down the road.

Thanks!
 
#2,908
Fattygabbiee said:
I am trying to beat the July 1 Washington State laws that will be enforced around semi-automatics and really want an LMT. I know some suppressors can really over gas an LMT but has anyone tried a Dead Air Sandman S on theirs? If so, do I need to get a Rubber City adjustable gas key?

I can get a lower now then decide which upper down the road.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I have a K and a Gemtech GMT-300WM, First can was my Gemtech, and on my 13.5 the gun was incredibly violent, with its stock H2 buffer, and JP silent capture spring and would have malfunctions,

picked up a Sandman K for my Scar and decided to see how it works on my LMT, great combo, added a 9oz buffer as well and it runs very nicely both suppressed and unsuppressed. I also picked up an H3(5.4 OZ) buffer that i will mess around with next time i am home.

All in all i am very impressed with that combo, I want to check out their Ebrake and see if it actually does anything

In regards to the RCA ajustible gas key, now that LMT carriers are pretty much available, I dont see any issue with picking one up and having a carrier just for suppressed use

 
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#2,909
GUNNER10 said:
I have a K and a Gemtech GMT-300WM, First can was my Gemtech, and on my 13.5 the gun was incredibly violent, with its stock H2 buffer, and JP silent capture spring and would have malfunctions,

picked up a Sandman K for my Scar and decided to see how it works on my LMT, great combo, added a 9oz buffer as well and it runs very nicely both suppressed and unsuppressed. I also picked up an H3(5.4 OZ) buffer that i will mess around with next time i am home.

All in all i am very impressed with that combo, I want to check out their Ebrake and see if it actually does anything

In regards to the RCA ajustible gas key, now that LMT carriers are pretty much available, I dont see any issue with picking one up and having a carrier just for suppressed use
Click to expand...

That is awesome news. What 9oz buffer did you get? Is that one from heavybuffers.com,the XH carbine buffer? I was looking at their site.
 
#2,910
I was rushed for time so I cheated and shot 3 shot groups?? at the 600, 689, and 700 yard targets. Spray can top is 2 1/2”.
LMT MWS 308, 18” stainless barrel, 168gr Magtech ammo. 2.5-10x32 NF NSX.
B2101124-AF00-40D5-9488-379CAC4A8BE2.jpeg
DAB3A49F-2631-4BE8-8B08-4F61FA23D20F.jpeg
9594DCA1-BA78-4A89-A0F3-15F4D0C4214A.jpeg
 
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#2,911
Fattygabbiee said:
That is awesome news. What 9oz buffer did you get? Is that one from heavybuffers.com,the XH carbine buffer? I was looking at their site.
Click to expand...

Yep, the xh and spring combo. Works with my 6.5cm barrel as well, as I mentioned earlier, I still want to try out the factory h3 and spring combo the next time I am in but as it stands right now, I am very happy.
 
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#2,912
scrumpdeleos said:
Hey guys has anyone experienced problems with their LMT while running a can on it? I have the MWS 16 308 with a Saker suppressor. I am seeing some really weird accuracy, usually i can shoot the gun around 1 moa with 168 GMM ammo, But with a suppressor it opens up to around 2-3 MOA.
Click to expand...

Punching .75" - 1" MOA groups with my 16" MWS and the Saker 7.62 using 168gr IMI Razor-Core, which it seems to like. Shooting 1" - 1.5" groups with 175gr FGGM. Still need to run other loads through it to see what it prefers and if I can't tighten it up a bit more. So far so good.

For those of you who want to run your MWS suppressed full-time I highly recommend picking up an XH buffer from Heavy Buffers (Clint). Tried a few solutions and this is the only one I found that works consistently and reliably with the stock rifle spring. It really tames the back-pressure and I'm seeing a consistent 3 - 4 o'clock ejection pattern. For those who haven't seen it, there's a dude on YouTube who demonstrates his suppressed MWS running reliably with a can:

 
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#2,914
Thanks for all the advice everyone. @Blackfoot 7 and @GUNNER10 reassured I made the right decision. Ordered the Mars H lower, XH buffer/spring, and MLOK upper and handguard! Can't wait for them to arrive. Final decision now is for the barrel.

If I decided to wait to e-file the form 1 and get the 13.5" barrel (roughly four weeks), what is a good back up plan? Get the 20" SS and have ADCO cut it down to 16" so I have a rifle length gas setup or get the 16" LW SS and cut it down to 14.5" and p/w my Dead Air brake.

I plan on using my Sandman S but after reading how good the new OSS 762 HD is for it, I may switch to that (would live on the 13.5" after my stamp arrives).

Thoughts?

Thanks again!
 
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#2,915
Fattygabbiee said:
Thanks for all the advice everyone. @Blackfoot 7 and @GUNNER10 reinsured I made the right decision. Ordered the Mars H lower, XH buffer/spring, and MLOK upper and handguard! Can't wait for them to arrive. Final decision now is for the barrel.

If I decided to wait to e-file the form 1 and get the 13.5" barrel (roughly four weeks), what is a good back up plan? Get the 20" SS and have ADCO cut it down to 16" so I have a rifle length gas setup or get the 16" LW SS and cut it down to 14.5" and p/w my Dead Air brake.

I plan on using my Sandman S but after reading how good the new OSS 762 HD is for it, I may switch to that (would live on the 13.5" after my stamp arrives).

Thoughts?

Thanks again!
Click to expand...

It's all preference. Getting a barrel cut back does have a turn around associated with it and sometimes can become finicky. If you are willing to do a little experimenting I would do a rifle length 16.

Since I started shooting 6.5cm's, I really like 308's from shorter barrels, figuring if I am going to take the hit on length might as well get a caliber the is more efficient.
 
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#2,917
Conrad101st said:
Why the rifle length gas tube considering the rifle was designed with a 16 inch barrel from inception I gather.
Click to expand...

Part of what makes the mws great is how reliable the rifle is, this is partly accomplished by overgassing the operating system so that it will run reliably with any ammo fed.

Unfortunately that also sometimes makes it a challenge to supress. So what people have done is cut back rifle barrels in order to get a barrel that generates less operating pressure.

This could allow people run a wider range of silencers. It would also lead to a smoother/less violent operating system.
 
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#2,918
I finally got around to shooting for groups with my 16" CL .308 barrel, and I believe I answered my questions about accuracy for the MWS. For reference the dots are 3/4".

I'll take it out in a few weeks and shoot some dot drills with 5 shots and see what kind of consistent shooter it is, definitely think it has potential.

7105823


5 shot group with the new 1-8 VCOG with mil reticle. And you can bet your ass I wasn't taking this one to 10 shots just to appease folks on here that think only 10 shot groups count! ? Prime 175 .308. I was actually a little astonished, I am generally a 3/4 moa semi and 1/2 moa bolt gun shooter. Anyway, that is great shooting for me and really happy with the plain Jane 16" barrel, thanks
@Fenix Mike! ?

7105827
 
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#2,921
The DFC said:
lol-that's the conclusion I came to 3 lowers ago! BTW I have that same 20" barrel sitting on my bench still in packaging.
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Thats how it starts. You buy an extra BCG to have a spare. Then you buy a 6.5CM to swop out with quick change system, then your like all I need is a MARS lower and stripped upper for a grand and .........Now you have two. Enjoy and good luck.
 
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#2,924
Jsp556 said:
Mlok defenders for $1799

LMT MWS 308 16" MLOK Defender Series Rifle

LMT MWS 308 16" MLOK Defender Series Rifle
www.riflegear.com www.riflegear.com
Click to expand...
Jsp556 said:
Mlok defenders for $1799

LMT MWS 308 16" MLOK Defender Series Rifle

LMT MWS 308 16" MLOK Defender Series Rifle
www.riflegear.com www.riflegear.com
Click to expand...

Really wanting to get into the .30 cal AR game with an LMT MWS. I think I'll start with 6.5 Creed, but that $1799 Defender looks appealing.

What are reasons not to pick it up? Non MARS-H lower being one?
 
#2,927
jiggaky15 said:
Is this an amazing deal or do they come around from time to time? Holidays and such.
Click to expand...


Somewhere in between-although that particular deal is the MLOK upper which is the most desirable one available these days.

Last year for black friday they had the 308 slick upper for $599, 16" 308 cl barrel for $299, 20" 308 ss barrel for $399-just to give you an idea of that time of year. They have stuff pop up occasionally-like the South American overrun canteen green complete rifles-both 556 and 308. I think the 308 was $1799 as well-1913 pic railed upper though.
 
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#2,929
jiggaky15 said:
Really wanting to get into the .30 cal AR game with an LMT MWS. I think I'll start with 6.5 Creed, but that $1799 Defender looks appealing.

What are reasons not to pick it up? Non MARS-H lower being one?
Click to expand...
No reason not to buy one. The MLok uppers are nice but my next one will be another quad railed upper, preferably lightly used.
 
#2,932
Jsp556 said:
No reason not to buy one. The MLok uppers are nice but my next one will be another quad railed upper, preferably lightly used.
Click to expand...
Well, grabbed that Defender MWS, excited to pick her up Friday or Saturday. I like the 16" lightweight profile in .308 vs the regular contour, looks like 3/4 lb. weight savings. Any idea on good spots to post for a trade or sale then put money towards lightweight version? Obviously, the forum here, but curious any other resources. Thanks.
 
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#2,937
madangler1 said:
How are you guys running these suppressed?
Click to expand...

Something to be aware of, The guns do run hard so when you decided to supress the system, you just have to be aware of what type of can you are considering using.

For example, when i attempted to run my fullsize, GMT-300WM can on my 13.5 and 16 inch barrel, it was WAY overgassed. harsh recoil, way to much bolt feed which resulted in double feeds and other failures.

I picked up a sandman K which is known as low pressure can, added a heavier buffer and spring and it runs very nice, I still want to try the factory spring and H3 Buffer to see how it runs, but with a heavier buffer and spring that i got from heavybuffers, it runs great both suppressed and unsurpressed

Now my full size can works well on both my 18 Inch 308 and my 20 inch 6.5CM. So it is important to know what you have and what an idea of how those things may interact.
 
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#2,938
GUNNER10 said:
Something to be aware of, The guns do run hard so when you decided to supress the system, you just have to be aware of what type of can you are considering using.

For example, when i attempted to run my fullsize, GMT-300WM can on my 13.5 and 16 inch barrel, it was WAY overgassed. harsh recoil, way to much bolt feed which resulted in double feeds and other failures.

I picked up a sandman K which is known as low pressure can, added a heavier buffer and spring and it runs very nice, I still want to try the factory spring and H3 Buffer to see how it runs, but with a heavier buffer and spring that i got from heavybuffers, it runs great both suppressed and unsurpressed

Now my full size can works well on both my 18 Inch 308 and my 20 inch 6.5CM. So it is important to know what you have and what an idea of how those things may interact.
Click to expand...

That’s what guys on M4carbine.net always said. Not sure if LMT changed their gas port sizes for the commercial market or not. They won’t tell me anything on the phone or in person (recent NRA convention).
 
#2,939
madangler1 said:
That’s what guys on M4carbine.net always said. Not sure if LMT changed their gas port sizes for the commercial market or not. They won’t tell me anything on the phone or in person (recent NRA convention).
Click to expand...

I highly doubt that LMT has a different gas port size for commercial guns.

They run just fine with a properly designed can.

The British SAS snipers are issued SureFire suppressors and I’m pretty sure that they are not running a buffer that some dude made in his basement or any of the other band-aid solutions that are recommended regularly on various gun boards.

Mounting a high back pressure hobby grade suppressor like a Silencerco or Gemtech on a MWS and then blaming the gun for being “overgassed” is kind of like taking your Shelby Mustang to Pep Boys to have a Subaru muffler installed and then blaming the car when it doesn’t run right anymore.
 
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#2,940
Gasgun said:
I highly doubt that LMT has a different gas port size for commercial guns.

They run just fine with a properly designed can.

The British SAS snipers are issued SureFire suppressors and I’m pretty sure that they are not running a buffer that some dude made in his basement or any of the other band-aid solutions that are recommended regularly on various gun boards.

Mounting a high back pressure hobby grade suppressor like a Silencerco or Gemtech on a MWS and then blaming the gun for being “overgassed” is kind of like taking your Shelby Mustang to Pep Boys to have a Subaru muffler installed and then blaming the car when it doesn’t run right anymore.
Click to expand...

I agree with all of your points, but I’ve heard of issues with even Surefires at times. The Brits probably don’t care if their troops get too much gas in their face, let alone care much about victims rights or when their own kids are being used as sex slaves in their neighborhoods.
 
#2,941
Blackfoot 7 said:
Punching .75" - 1" MOA groups with my 16" MWS and the Saker 7.62 using 168gr IMI Razor-Core, which it seems to like. Shooting 1" - 1.5" groups with 175gr FGGM. Still need to run other loads through it to see what it prefers and if I can't tighten it up a bit more. So far so good.

For those of you who want to run your MWS suppressed full-time I highly recommend picking up an XH buffer from Heavy Buffers (Clint). Tried a few solutions and this is the only one I found that works consistently and reliably with the stock rifle spring. It really tames the back-pressure and I'm seeing a consistent 3 - 4 o'clock ejection pattern. For those who haven't seen it, there's a dude on YouTube who demonstrates his suppressed MWS running reliably with a can:

Click to expand...


I shouldn't have watched that.

Now I want to buy a Mars lower to sbr and put together a 13.5" upper for. Then I can get a dmr stock for the one I have now and just switch between the 2 long range barrels I have for it.
 
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#2,943
Have one coming from a great guy here and the rifle is a proven shooter. Can’t wait to jump on the 16” 6.5 Creed barrels from LMT when they are released.
Knights has been doing R&D on 14.5” 6.5 bbls and are very impressed with performance...
 
#2,947
Looking at a newer MWS... Based on what I’ve been reading here, they slicked out the carrier and fixed extraction issues that some earlier models had. Is there a serial # range or manuf date after which these changes were made? Other thoughts along these lines?
 
#2,949
Other than a little weight difference is there any tangible benefit to a f/a carrier vs semi in the mws?

I need to pick up my mars-h lower, already found a lnib upper but I do need another bcg. I was going to go auto bc my 16" cl is overgassed as hell suppressed and every little bit helps but they're OOS everywhere. I think I'm going to try out a gen 2 UBR stock as well.
 
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