LMT .308 MWS

[TangoSierra916]

Love this thread! Question for you guys:

Everyone knows the LMT is pretty heavy in general, especially with the quad rail. This seems to be a good thing when using in the DMR type precision role, but not so much if you switch barrels for offhand shooting. Is it worth it to upgrade to the MLOK for weight reduction, or simply keep a longer barrel in the quad rail rifle and buy a second MLOK complete rifle with a lw barrel? Seems like selling the quad and buying the MLOK upper would require a decent outlay of cash anyway.

My two cents is keep the quad rail version and get more barrels. That being said, I love quad rails and have two almost identical MWS with quad rails and varying barrel lengths that take on many uses including offhand shooting, hunting, plinking and positional work. I trust the swap-ability and return to zero between barrels I just love the platform and wanted 2. lol

 

[newguy2k3v2]

For reference. You save 4oz with the m-lock upper I believe. You lose the right side qd socket at the barrel clamp and you have to remove any m-lock attachments to swap barrels.

I do like how well the mdt dovetail adapter plate mounts up on the mlr chassis but it wouldn't work quite the same on the mws.

 

[LMT/556]

Love this thread! Question for you guys:

Everyone knows the LMT is pretty heavy in general, especially with the quad rail. This seems to be a good thing when using in the DMR type precision role, but not so much if you switch barrels for offhand shooting. Is it worth it to upgrade to the MLOK for weight reduction, or simply keep a longer barrel in the quad rail rifle and buy a second MLOK complete rifle with a lw barrel? Seems like selling the quad and buying the MLOK upper would require a decent outlay of cash anyway.

Mlok 16" 308 1x8 ATARC

Pic rail 20" 6.5cm or 20" 308 4x16 ATACR

 

[SandFam3]

Mlok 16" 308 1x8 ATARC

Pic rail 20" 6.5cm or 20" 308 4x16 ATACR

Yeah, like that! Sweet setups. I’d imagine even the mlok is still a workout to run-and-gun with for a class or drills?

 

[LMT/556]

It's about 40% heavier than a comparable AR15, guessing around 11lbs between rifle and 1x8 but that rifle is much more manageable than the 20" pic rail. Two different setups though, ground game and mobile including glass.

 

[ltong29]

Finally got my Mark5HD 3.6-18x mounted! Having owned Vortex PST's in the past, this thing is definitely a step up. Any recommendations on bipods? Looking at the PSR Atlas

 

[wichitaguns]

Finally got my Mark5HD 3.6-18x mounted! Having owned Vortex PST's in the past, this thing is definitely a step up. Any recommendations on bipods? Looking at the PSR AtlasView attachment 7347837

Love my prs atlas.

 

[Lurp06x]

Still waiting. October can’t come soon enough!

 

[HosHan]

So what's the consensus on cutting down 20" barrels to 16/16.5"? I read back about 15-20 pages but didn't see a whole lot of references to it. What I did see is that it can be a little on the finicky side, but is this with 168/175gr match ammo or just cheap 147gr plinking stuff? I don't mind giving up shooting cheap surplus if everything else is still reliable.
It seems like everyone is going to 13.5" these days, which don't get me wrong, I had a 16" cut down to a 14" p&w and I love the damn thing, so I get it. However, I ended walking into a 20" CL barrel deal I couldn't pass up ($200), and I'm considering having it chopped to 16.5" to make it a little more handy. I have no plans to use a suppressor with this gun so would the lack of added backpressure render the gun significantly less reliable?
For how little I would have invested I'm almost willing to just do it and see what happens but I'm curious if anyone has some input.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Anyone know where to find a new 6.5CM MWS? They seem to be impossible to find anywhere.

 

[Hetzer]

At this point I'm not impressed by LMTs Customer Service.

I bought one of the 22" 6.5 Creedmoor barrels on the last Black Friday Sale. I was piecing together a MWS from V1 (mostly). When I finally got it all together that barrel won't cycle the action enough to pick up the next round. The only thing different from a stock MWS is a UBR stock and SSA-E trigger. All LMT parts otherwise. I have an 18" 7.62x51 barrel that works fine so far. I tried the 6.5 first with some reloads and wouldn't pick up the next round. It would eject the spent but then "click". Dammit.

I bought some factory 120gr Hornady ELD Match. Same story.

I called LMT. Response was "Check the gas tube". Pulled that, no issue.
Called again two days later. Got the voice mail, left a message. No response.
A week goes by, I call again. We talk about it, refreshing his memory. "Send me an e-mail " with the details. I do so within the hour.
No response.
Another week has gone by. It's pretty aggravating, and I'm a patient guy.

 

[flyright]

You pieced together a rifle using "mostly" LMT parts and LMT CS doesn't quickly email/call to help solve your problem? I wouldn't think this to be a priority issue for them. So, I'd chill a bit and see if you can find out what they recommend or get a good smith to help troubleshoot. Just MHO...

 

[RyanScott]

LMT CS doesn’t get back to you even when it’s all their parts in the rifle at issue.

 

[pmclaine]

Had an LMT issue.

MWS wasnt cycling properly, total jamomatic.

Talked to CS, think his name was Gene, told me to box it up and send it in.

They sent me a shipping lable.

Week later he called and asked if I was original owner. I said I was.

He was surprised that there was a 5.56 buffer tube on it not a 7.62.

Than it dawned on me.....

I had taken my 7.62 BT with FDE Sopmod and installed it on my CQB. For a time I ran a Magpul stock on my MWS. I had recently removed it and used the BT from my CQB to re-install the Sopmod on my MWS.

Totally my fault.

LMT wanted to change the tube on their dime and ship it back to me.

I told them to box my whole mess up and bill me for shipping both ways as I am a fuckup.

Runs like a charm again.

 

[Hetzer]

@flyright ..Except for the UBR and the trigger it's all LMT. The "mostly" was that they were purchased mostly from V1, bought a few direct from LMT. I thought that was fairly clear. Two weeks seems plenty of time to me to make an effort. I guess we have different ideas on CS.

@Tono ..
1) Yes, as much as my other AR's
2) No it will not
3) LMT buffer and spring
It is the full auto BCG and I suppose that the combination could be a possibility. I wouldn't think they would make it so close to that edge of performance as to risk failure.

 

[Lonewolf762]

LMT CS doesn’t get back to you even when it’s all their parts in the rifle at issue.

Using their contact form on the LMT website did not give me any luck as well, in this topic someone said they do respond on their Facebook page.
So I tried FB messenger and got responses within minutes.

 

[HosHan]

At this point I'm not impressed by LMTs Customer Service.

I bought one of the 22" 6.5 Creedmoor barrels on the last Black Friday Sale. I was piecing together a MWS from V1 (mostly). When I finally got it all together that barrel won't cycle the action enough to pick up the next round. The only thing different from a stock MWS is a UBR stock and SSA-E trigger. All LMT parts otherwise. I have an 18" 7.62x51 barrel that works fine so far. I tried the 6.5 first with some reloads and wouldn't pick up the next round. It would eject the spent but then "click". Dammit.

I bought some factory 120gr Hornady ELD Match. Same story.

I called LMT. Response was "Check the gas tube". Pulled that, no issue.
Called again two days later. Got the voice mail, left a message. No response.
A week goes by, I call again. We talk about it, refreshing his memory. "Send me an e-mail " with the details. I do so within the hour.
No response.
Another week has gone by. It's pretty aggravating, and I'm a patient guy.

What barrel length do you have? I ask because you say 22", but I wasn't aware they produced anything besides the 20" and 24".
What was the bullet weights in the reloads you were using?

 

[theLBC]

At this point I'm not impressed by LMTs Customer Service.

I bought one of the 22" 6.5 Creedmoor barrels on the last Black Friday Sale. I was piecing together a MWS from V1 (mostly). When I finally got it all together that barrel won't cycle the action enough to pick up the next round. The only thing different from a stock MWS is a UBR stock and SSA-E trigger. All LMT parts otherwise. I have an 18" 7.62x51 barrel that works fine so far. I tried the 6.5 first with some reloads and wouldn't pick up the next round. It would eject the spent but then "click". Dammit.

I bought some factory 120gr Hornady ELD Match. Same story.

I called LMT. Response was "Check the gas tube". Pulled that, no issue.
Called again two days later. Got the voice mail, left a message. No response.
A week goes by, I call again. We talk about it, refreshing his memory. "Send me an e-mail " with the details. I do so within the hour.
No response.
Another week has gone by. It's pretty aggravating, and I'm a patient guy.

you got any way to inspect the gas port for obstructions? cheap chinese endoscope?

 

[tvalks]

At this point I'm not impressed by LMTs Customer Service.

I bought one of the 22" 6.5 Creedmoor barrels on the last Black Friday Sale. I was piecing together a MWS from V1 (mostly). When I finally got it all together that barrel won't cycle the action enough to pick up the next round. The only thing different from a stock MWS is a UBR stock and SSA-E trigger. All LMT parts otherwise. I have an 18" 7.62x51 barrel that works fine so far. I tried the 6.5 first with some reloads and wouldn't pick up the next round. It would eject the spent but then "click". Dammit.

I bought some factory 120gr Hornady ELD Match. Same story.

I called LMT. Response was "Check the gas tube". Pulled that, no issue.
Called again two days later. Got the voice mail, left a message. No response.
A week goes by, I call again. We talk about it, refreshing his memory. "Send me an e-mail " with the details. I do so within the hour.
No response.
Another week has gone by. It's pretty aggravating, and I'm a patient guy.

I bought one on Black Friday as well, my rifle is all factory, but I haven't fired it yet. Your problem had me wondering so I went ahead and installed the 6.5 barrel to see if I could notice any differences between the 7.62 and the 6.5 while chambering and unchambering a few rounds.
It is noticeably much more difficult to unchamber a round in the 6.5 Barrel than it is in the 7.62 Barrel, no idea why. Though all I have currently is some 140gr S&B. Ill go test fire it next week to see if I have any issues.

 

[Hetzer]

The buffer is an H3 and weighs 5.4 oz.
The complete BCG weighs 1 lb 3.5 oz.

Gas ports viewed by lyman borescope. Interesting as I was told they drill them at an angle.

.308

6.5

 

[RyanScott]

Looks like an angle to me. That should be standard.

 

[scharfschutze762]

At this point I'm not impressed by LMTs Customer Service.

I bought one of the 22" 6.5 Creedmoor barrels on the last Black Friday Sale. I was piecing together a MWS from V1 (mostly). When I finally got it all together that barrel won't cycle the action enough to pick up the next round. The only thing different from a stock MWS is a UBR stock and SSA-E trigger. All LMT parts otherwise. I have an 18" 7.62x51 barrel that works fine so far. I tried the 6.5 first with some reloads and wouldn't pick up the next round. It would eject the spent but then "click". Dammit.

I bought some factory 120gr Hornady ELD Match. Same story.

I called LMT. Response was "Check the gas tube". Pulled that, no issue.
Called again two days later. Got the voice mail, left a message. No response.
A week goes by, I call again. We talk about it, refreshing his memory. "Send me an e-mail " with the details. I do so within the hour.
No response.
Another week has gone by. It's pretty aggravating, and I'm a patient guy.

Correct me if Im wrong but Im pretty certain the UBR is a carbine length buffer tube which is shorter than the MWS buffer tube.

 

[Hetzer]

RyanScott ....what do you mean by "standard"? I've only seen ports that are perpendicular to this point.

sharfshutz762...The UBR measures 7 5/8". I don't know what the LMT tube measures at.

This is from the Heavy Buffers page:

"If you have an extended (7-5/8" deep) receiver extension on your gun I recommend an XH carbine buffer and a .308 rifle buffer spring. This includes VLTOR A5 tubes and the Magpul UBR Gen2 stock. Many .308 rifles come from the factory in this configuration - LMT, S&W, LaRue, POF, etc."

Note that this is for a 8.5 oz buffer with a rifle spring. The XH Carbine Buffer w/spring.

 

[theLBC]

it is sort of a bummer that the angle of the port prevents you from seeing if it is lined up perfectly with the gas block.

 

[RyanScott]

I mean an angled gas port should be standard.

 

[HosHan]

Correct me if Im wrong but Im pretty certain the UBR is a carbine length buffer tube which is shorter than the MWS buffer tube.

Gen 1 UBRs fits a standard carbine buffer in an AR-15, or a short carbine buffer for an AR-10.
Gen 2 UBRs comes with a spacer to fit a standard carbine buffer or an A5 buffer with spacer removed in an AR-15, or a standard carbine buffer with AR-10 with spacer removed.

 

[MPD142]

@Tono[/USER] ..
1) Yes, as much as my other AR's
2) No it will not
3) LMT buffer and spring
It is the full auto BCG and I suppose that the combination could be a possibility. I wouldn't think they would make it so close to that edge of performance as to risk failure.

if you are using a UBR stock with the factory LMT buffer that is your problem. The receiver extension for the URB is shorter than the LMT MWS extension. You will need a shorter buffer fromeither a DPMS LR-308 or one from Slash in the X heavy variety.

 

[Hetzer]

What is the buffer tube depth measurement on the LMT? I sent V1 an email and asked that very question.
The nice lady called and left a message and said it was 8 inches.

Could anyone confirm that?

 

[Carnifex]

7-5/8" deep

 

[Hetzer]

Thank you. That makes the UBR and the LMT the same depth then.
That echos the Heavy Buffers quote I made in post #3407

 

[LMT/556]

I've had barrel shipments where the gas tube poked through LMTs shipping sleeve, cutting a plug out and it was stuck in the tube. I cleared it out with compressed air, but where would it lodge if it I hadn't? Not picking up a next round for me is shaping up as a mag or mag spring issue, mostly in 5.56 mags high use. Without it having been 100% LMT you have no baseline, and these rifles were developed as a system. Yeah you can switch out parts (or roll your own), but issues can and do pop up. How is the alignment between the upper and lower, is there any right or left bias? And what action spring are you running?

 

[LMT/556]

I see you said LMT RE and action spring. I think you are too heavy reciprocating mass, the BCG isn't traveling rearward enough to pick up the next round. If LMT used the same port size as their 24" you lose dwell time because the barrel is 2" shorter, means less gas to the system, then add in heavier reciprocating components (buffer and carrier) you are now outside the magic window. In 5.56 guns not enough gas can slow-mo pick up the next round leading to a high angle failure to chamber (bolt over base type malfunction).

 

[Carnifex]

I've had barrel shipments where the gas tube poked through LMTs shipping sleeve, cutting a plug out and it was stuck in the tube. I cleared it out with compressed air, but where would it lodge if it I hadn't? Not picking up a next round for me is shaping up as a mag or mag spring issue, mostly in 5.56 mags high use. Without it having been 100% LMT you have no baseline, and these rifles were developed as a system. Yeah you can switch out parts (or roll your own), but issues can and do pop up. How is the alignment between the upper and lower, is there any right or left bias? And what action spring are you running?

Funny my 6.5 barrel actually has a plug in the gas tube from shipping right now. Attempting to remove it i ended up shoving it further up the tube. I haven't shot it yet but I assume it would just get blasted out on the first round.

 

[LMT/556]

Funny my 6.5 barrel actually has a plug in the gas tube from shipping right now. Attempting to remove it i ended up shoving it further up the tube. I haven't shot it yet but I assume it would just get blasted out on the first round.

And end up where? I sealed off the barrel extension end with a piece of foam rubber pad (up on a box) and used an air blower sealed on the muzzle end, the plug blew right out. More than one barrel has come this way, a Primary Arms shipment was the last one to arrive like this, I think my 6.5 barrel.

 

[Hetzer]

Since I'm in need of another buffer and spring for an Aero build, I ordered the XH buffer and spring from Heavy Buffers.
If it's too heavy, I'll go the other way. An adjustable buffer maybe. Too little gas is also something I've considered.
KAC mag so I doubt that's an issue. Nothing out of whack to be seen.
In 69 pages of this thread the XH buffer is mentioned pretty often. Also that LMTs are overgassed.
We'll see how this works out.

 

[LMT/556]

Since I'm in need of another buffer and spring for an Aero build, I ordered the XH buffer and spring from Heavy Buffers.
If it's too heavy, I'll go the other way. An adjustable buffer maybe. Too little gas is also something I've considered.
KAC mag so I doubt that's an issue. Nothing out of whack to be seen.
In 69 pages of this thread the XH buffer is mentioned pretty often. Also that LMTs are overgassed.
We'll see how this works out.

You have a relatively new barrel length at 18

Since I'm in need of another buffer and spring for an Aero build, I ordered the XH buffer and spring from Heavy Buffers.
If it's too heavy, I'll go the other way. An adjustable buffer maybe. Too little gas is also something I've considered.
KAC mag so I doubt that's an issue. Nothing out of whack to be seen.
In 69 pages of this thread the XH buffer is mentioned pretty often. Also that LMTs are overgassed.
We'll see how this works out.

I had a C4 carrier key that was loose causing malfunctions (too little gas). As another stated I've noticed resistance working the 6.5 action, like these things are tight new and blow off lube. Make sure you oil the gas rings and the action feels smooth. Are the upper and lower decently aligned?

 

[Mumbles]

A couple years ago I saw a quad-rail MWS that ADCO had milled the rails down KAC URX 3 style (and drilled and tapped for URX accessories). Anyone here have that done?

 

[Hetzer]

You have a relatively new barrel length at 18

It's a 22" they had at last years Black Friday.

 

[LMT/556]

It's a 22"
Yes I knew that thought I had edited that out.

If LMT used the same port size as their 24" you lose dwell time because the barrel is 2" shorter, means less gas to the system...

 

[RUTGERS95]

Here's a direct comparison between the LMT and SR25 BCG. Although this is not a comparison between the Toolcraft or PSA BCGs, this will highlight some of the unique features that LMT BCGs have.

great video thanks

 

[.300Wins]

Not sure how some folks are successfully able to use these replacement heavy buffers/springs being talked about on their MWS but I bought the XH Buffer/Spring combo for mine and the gun basically refused to function properly with it installed. Tried Spring/Buffer combo, tried just the spring with factory buffer and replacement buffer with factory spring as well. In all cases the gun wouldn't eject the spent casings or would fail to do so every few rounds.

I dont have a silencer, just standard MWS Slick with 16" barrel and SOPMOD Stock. Once factory spring/buffer were installed back the gun worked flawlessly everytime ejcting the spent brass into a nice pile at 4 oclock position on the ground. I guess its a crap shoot if it will work for you or not. I tried these combos with Lake City M118LR 175gr match ammo and lighter 147gr MEN ammo.

 

[Gasgun]

Not sure how some folks are successfully able to use these replacement heavy buffers/springs being talked about on their MWS but I bought the XH Buffer/Spring combo for mine and the gun basically refused to function properly with it installed. Tried Spring/Buffer combo, tried just the spring with factory buffer and replacement buffer with factory spring as well. In all cases the gun wouldn't eject the spent casings or would fail to do so every few rounds.

I dont have a silencer, just standard MWS Slick with 16" barrel and SOPMOD Stock. Once factory spring/buffer were installed back the gun worked flawlessly everytime ejcting the spent brass into a nice pile at 4 oclock position on the ground. I guess its a crap shoot if it will work for you or not. I tried these combos with Lake City M118LR 175gr match ammo and lighter 147gr MEN ammo.

This was my experience as well. Bought the buffer/spring combo recommended by the seller.
Turned my MWS into a single shot. Tried several types of ammo, several different mags, all same result.
Contacted the seller, was told basically tough shit, it works for everyone else.
Generously offered to let me return it at my expense for a refund minus restocking fee and a surcharge for any “damage“.
Have been running the factory setup ever since.

 

[flyright]

Slash recommended a buffer and spring setup that he's been using for years on the MWS when I wanted a 16" .308 and 20" 6.5CM to both work. Both run perfectly. Recoil impulse is reduced and accuracy is superb. I called to check/ask why the spring is shorter and he explained - great guy.

 

[hitman]

Heads up- D. Wilson is testing out conversions for the MWS! I am excited about it- just gives more options when he is ready. It is on his facebook page.

 

[wichitaguns]

Anyone have a lmt mws upper hanging around needing some love?
Just placed an order for the Mars-h lower.

 

[HosHan]

Got my MWS barrel back today from Class 3 Machining today. 20" down to 16.5", I have to say Mr. Richey does some damn good work and has a very fast turn around, my barrel was finished only a few hours after he received it. I had ADCO cut my 16" down to 13.5" and while equally functional, the quality difference is significant.
I took 100 rounds with me to the range only to realize in my haste I grabbed 3 boxes of the wrong caliber (should really read what's on the box instead of assuming it's right because it's the same brand). Put 30 rounds of 149gr Federal XM80 down the pipe with few issues. The second round failed to pick up and I had 2-3 intermittent short strokes after that which wasn't that surprising given the reduced dwell time. I'm also not convinced that the magazine might not have some feeding angle issues, plan to try a few others as well to rule that out. Brass ejects at 3:00 about 4-5 feet away. When I attached the suppressor it cycled the last 10 rounds perfectly, as expected.
I thought I had grabbed 60 rounds of 168gr ELD to compare with the 40 rounds of XM80, the former of which is what I'll be running most of the time. I'm pretty happy with what I've seen so far and I expect to see improvement when I start running actual match rounds. I was only tagging steel today for rough sight-in and function testing.

 

[GUNNER10]

Yeah, cut back 20's have been know to have some function issues. I am not sure if it would help, but you may need to try a lighter buffer.

If not I know that www.dwilsonmfg.com does port work on LMTs

 

[HosHan]

Thankfully I think I was having a magazine issue on my first run. With a proven 10-round p-mag and no suppressor, I ran a box each of the following with no issues: Federal XM80, Hornady 150gr Interlock, American Eagle 150gr FMJ-BTs, Freedom Munitions 150gr FMJ, FM 155gr A-MAX, Hornady ELD 168gr, and finally some Black Hills 175gr BTHP.
The wind really picked up early today here in northeast Texas so my shooting buddy and I got to practice some wind holds which was fun.

 

[LongSchott]

Hello all. I'm a new LMT 308 owner. I joined this forum specifically because it's just about the Only place I've found where people are keeping alive a discussion about this gun. Almost anywhere else I looked, I couldn't find any current topics about the LMT MWS 308. All my googling just turned up years old threads.

I'm glad to have joined the club. The club of LMT owners, that is. This is actually my first 308. I was kind of surprised because I expect a 308 to be heavier than AR-15s, and everybody always says the LMTs are heavier compared to other AR-10s, but this gun really doesn't feel that heavy in my hands. Of course, it could be due to the mlok rail and lightweight CL 16" barrel.

I've only shot it once, and it was at >25yrds. I was waiting for my Nightforce NXS to come. Now that I have it, I need to get out to the 100yrd range. Unfortunately there's no range anywhere near me with longer than a hundred.

I'm sure I'll be asking you guys questions and opinions in the future. I'm glad to have found a place where people still talk about these guns. It's weird to me that it was difficult to find anything recent.
One thing I'm wondering; what's a good "battle zero" with 308s. I used to do the 50/200 with AR-15s, I kind of go for the 36yrd lately. But I've never known anything about what's good for a gun like this one. Or do people just zero at 100?

Anyway, here's a quick picture to say hello. View attachment 7242679

Beautiful weapon man. Is this a 1:10 twist?

 

[Hetzer]

As a follow up to my 6.5 barrel won't cycle at #3393 let me add this.

The XH buffer and spring came in. I tried it out and it made no difference. I'm not really surprised by that but what the hell. I can use it elsewhere. I'm not opposed to having extra parts. I don't think I'm alone in that here.

I then tried Federal GM 130 grain with the LMT H3 and spring. That does cycle the action. Interesting.
I had put together an Aero M5. Toolcraft BCG, Criterion barrel. I doesn't cycle the Hornady 120 ELD either with the LMT buffer and spring.
More interesting. Neither will cycle my first "reloads" (everything is new so is it reloading?). IIRC they were Nosler CC123 and about 41 gr of RE15.

So at this point I'm going to load up some 130TMKs and some Hornady 140s with some H4350 and see how that goes. I have also ordered an Odin adjustable buffer to go lighter with the 120 class rounds to see if that functions.

(and I never did get a follow-up from LMT CS)