Rifle Scopes Long range hunting scope question/ rant

[SWWI Shooter]

I've been on a mission to find the perfect hunting scope (in my opinion) but just been ending up with frustration. I've even communicated with Vortex twice (since their headquarters is an hour from me -support your local people and all that) and their response has always been "send us your ideas and we'll look at them". I do and that's the last I hear from them. What I'm wondering is if my wants/ needs are unusual or if all the scope companies are a missing a big market segment because they have their head in the sand. I understand that this site may lean towards target shooters but I'm assuming that there are some hunters out there like myself.

I'm primarily a hunter but I like to target shoot at longer range for the challenge and to become more proficient. While I personally wouldn't shoot at game farther than 500 yards, being able to hit targets at 1000 yards builds confidence. Below are my requirements for what I feel is the perfect hunting scope but I can't seem to find it.

1) Second focal plane. ( Just can't find a FFP reticle that works well for me on both the low end and high end especially in low light).
2) Power range of 2-3 on the low end and 10-15 on the upper end ( with 12-14 preferred) More power than that is just hard to use at 300-500 yards on game in my opinion.
3) adjustable paralax
4) A reticle with moa hash marks every 1 moa for both elevation and windage. (I'm not a fan of holdover marks for predetermined yardages that all of the companies have in many hunting scopes.) I would be ok with a christmas tree reticle but not a must as long as it has has marks for 10-15 moa each direction from the center.
5) A lighted reticle. Would prefer just the center lighted but would accept the whole thing lighted.
6) Exposed elevation knob with zero stop - capped windage knob to dial elevation and hold for wind.
7) Prefer in the $1000 range but would go up to $2000 for the right one.

So two questions:
1) Am I missing a scope that already has all of these features? Don't think I am as I've been looking pretty hard but....
2) Am I the only person in the world that wants a scope like this or are the scope companies missing the mark (pun intended)?

 

[PFG]

The LRHS is going to get you very, very close.

Now discontinued, but very much available in the classifieds.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

.

So two questions:
1) Am I missing a scope that already has all of these features? Don't think I am as I've been looking pretty hard but....
2) Am I the only person in the world that wants a scope like this or are the scope companies missing the mark (pun intended)?

#1 yes, A leupold 3.5x10x40 M3 or M1, Mk 4 or a Veri X III with a impact ret. I went down this road long ago an came back to the Mk 4's. No they did not have that ret at the time, but when they came out I sent everyone back for a change. Was $160.00 DTD now they are $200.00 DTD. Most everything I have has them an no regrets at all. Light, compact compared to others, an with everything you want.

# 2 No your not, there is a whole host of folks that know the difference between reality an perception. However perception to have the Gucci of the day an what is tacticool on the safe queen/s rules what leaves the shipping dock.

 

[Pvt.Donut]

Nightforce NXS 2.5-10x42mm with MOAR Reticle?

Something in a 3-15x would be fine as well. Not a lot of people doing Exposed elevation/capped windage turrets. A ton of MOA 3-15x options on the market. A ton of 2-10x options as well.

 

[wade2big]

I've been on a mission to find the perfect hunting scope (in my opinion) but just been ending up with frustration. I've even communicated with Vortex twice (since their headquarters is an hour from me -support your local people and all that) and their response has always been "send us your ideas and we'll look at them". I do and that's the last I hear from them. What I'm wondering is if my wants/ needs are unusual or if all the scope companies are a missing a big market segment because they have their head in the sand. I understand that this site may lean towards target shooters but I'm assuming that there are some hunters out there like myself.

I'm primarily a hunter but I like to target shoot at longer range for the challenge and to become more proficient. While I personally wouldn't shoot at game farther than 500 yards, being able to hit targets at 1000 yards builds confidence. Below are my requirements for what I feel is the perfect hunting scope but I can't seem to find it.

1) Second focal plane. ( Just can't find a FFP reticle that works well for me on both the low end and high end especially in low light).
2) Power range of 2-3 on the low end and 10-15 on the upper end ( with 12-14 preferred) More power than that is just hard to use at 300-500 yards on game in my opinion.
3) adjustable paralax
4) A reticle with moa hash marks every 1 moa for both elevation and windage. (I'm not a fan of holdover marks for predetermined yardages that all of the companies have in many hunting scopes.) I would be ok with a christmas tree reticle but not a must as long as it has has marks for 10-15 moa each direction from the center.
5) A lighted reticle. Would prefer just the center lighted but would accept the whole thing lighted.
6) Exposed elevation knob with zero stop - capped windage knob to dial elevation and hold for wind.
7) Prefer in the $1000 range but would go up to $2000 for the right one.

So two questions:
1) Am I missing a scope that already has all of these features? Don't think I am as I've been looking pretty hard but....
2) Am I the only person in the world that wants a scope like this or are the scope companies missing the mark (pun intended)?

You just described my perfect scope and would take it in MOA or MILS. I have been hunting the last two years with FFP scopes and have learned a lot about their shortcomings especially in low light. It cost me a pig once. Most non hunters don't understand this concept. I have threads written about it. A tree reticle is unnecessary and just adds crap in the scope.

Maybe you could add number 8.
8) 25 oz or less

 

[Kevins750]

Bushnell forge 2.5-15x50 SFP locking turrets MOA reticle?

 

[wade2big]

@Gunfighter14e2, @Pvt.Donut

The only reason I like a little more magnification is not for shooting as 6x would be fine for that to 5-600 yards but to better interpret what I am looking at. There are laws on the books in Texas about antler with and antler points. Am I looking at a long horn spike or does it fork on the ends? Is the inside spread out wider than his ears? These reasons are why I like a little more mag when hunting. Most of my shots are close enough and 10X would cover it but I have made some shots in the last couple of years where I was glad to have a little more for the sake of identification.

 

[beretta_man11]

I have a lot of the same requirements. That being said, there are a few scopes that come to mind:

as mentioned, the LRHS 3-12x44 with the gap hunting reticle is very nice
Leupold vx5hd 3-15x44 with the impact 29 reticle
Leupold vx6hd 2-12x42 with the impact 45 reticle
Meopta optika6 line is coming, but reticles haven't been finalized and only the FFP have zero stops..

 

[SWWI Shooter]

The LRHS is going to get you very, very close.

Now discontinued, but very much available in the classifieds.

Yes, there are several that get me very close but not all the way there. I currently have a Leupold VX 6 3-18x with a custom reticle but I wish it was a little less power on the upper end.

 

[wade2big]

Yes, there are several that get me very close but not all the way there. I currently have a Leupold VX 6 3-18x with a custom reticle but I wish it was a little less power on the upper end.

If you are shooting far enough away that you would need to use your reticle couldn't you just dial instead. I would actually be fine with a thicker duplex reticle as long as I could dial If I were to take that 500 yard shot you were talking about. With a 200 yard zero even 400 doesn't take much effort just holding over. I am assuming that you would be dialed back on power where your reticle doesn't sub tend

 

[SWWI Shooter]

#1 yes, A leupold 3.5x10x40 M3 or M1, Mk 4 or a Veri X III with a impact ret. I went down this road long ago an came back to the Mk 4's. No they did not have that ret at the time, but when they came out I sent everyone back for a change. Was $160.00 DTD now they are $200.00 DTD. Most everything I have has them an no regrets at all. Light, compact compared to others, an with everything you want.

# 2 No your not, there is a whole host of folks that know the difference between reality an perception. However perception to have the Gucci of the day an what is tacticool on the safe queen/s rules what leaves the shipping dock.

1) Will need to look at the Mk 4's. I too have had reticles changed so that is an option IF they have one that you want for the scope that you want. 2) Yes, there seems to be a hole in most product lines between cheap hunting scopes with hunting scope features and the higher quality and price target scopes.

 

[SWWI Shooter]

If you are shooting far enough away that you would need to use your reticle couldn't you just dial instead. I would actually be fine with a thicker duplex reticle as long as I could dial If I were to take that 500 yard shot you were talking about. With a 200 yard zero even 400 doesn't take much effort just holding over. I am assuming that you would be dialed back on power where your reticle doesn't sub tend

I sight in to be 1.5 moa high at 100 so I can hold on deer size targets out to 200 yards or a bit farther. Beyond that, I either hold over with 1 moa hash marks or dial for elevation (dialing is preferred as I feel that it is more precise but that could just be me). In either case, I hold for wind but need to be a full power to do that.

 

[SWWI Shooter]

Nightforce NXS 2.5-10x42mm with MOAR Reticle?

Something in a 3-15x would be fine as well. Not a lot of people doing Exposed elevation/capped windage turrets. A ton of MOA 3-15x options on the market. A ton of 2-10x options as well.

Nightforce NXS 2.5-10x42mm with MOAR Reticle. Close but no exposed elevation turret on that one.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

The Bushnell LRHS and Forge 3-18 are probably the closest you're going to get.

 

[SWWI Shooter]

You just described my perfect scope and would take it in MOA or MILS. I have been hunting the last two years with FFP scopes and have learned a lot about their shortcomings especially in low light. It cost me a pig once. Most non hunters don't understand this concept. I have threads written about it. A tree reticle is unnecessary and just adds crap in the scope.

Maybe you could add number 8.
8) 25 oz or less

I would agree with the lower weight. I also want at least a 30mm tube but I didn't put that into my original list.
FFP would be fine for hunting in low light IF they would put heavy reticles around the outside so that when the power is turned down the center (fine) crosshairs and holdover points would disappear and your eye would just center the target between the heavy part of the reticle. If the scope is turned down, the shot is going to be close anyway so no holdover points and high precision wouldn't be needed. Scope companies seem to think that everyone always shoots at or near the top power which isn't the case with hunting.

 

[SWWI Shooter]

The Bushnell LRHS and Forge 3-18 are probably the closest you're going to get.

Right but if I have to go to 18x, I'll just keep my Leupold VX6.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Right but if I have to go to 18x, I'll just keep my Leupold VX6.

I almost forgot, there's also a 2.5-15x version. Down side is they don't have illumination, which the LRHS does, and the LRHS has the donut of death, which gives a solid aiming reference when dialed down on magnification.

 

[SWWI Shooter]

Bushnell forge 2.5-15x50 SFP locking turrets MOA reticle?

Close but no lighted reticle. Yes, I know I'm being picky.

 

[260284]

I have a 4.5-18 LRHS and at 4.5 the donut of death is very visable. There are some illuminated versions of the 4.5-18 out there but not the 3-12 version. I like the non-illuminated LRHS more than my illuminated 4.5-18 LRSTi for hunting because of the donut on the LRHS.

 

[ShtrRdy]

What you're asking for sounds like my NXS 2.5-10x42 MOAR scope. Parallax adjust, exposed turrets, SFP, Zero Stop, Digilum, 20 oz.
http://nightforceoptics.com/nxs/2-5-10x42

 

[SWWI Shooter]

What you're asking for sounds like my NXS 2.5-10x42 MOAR scope. Parallax adjust, exposed turrets, SFP, Zero Stop, Digilum, 19 oz.

I looked at those in Cabelas the other day. really nice scope but those don't come in a capped windage knob do they?

 

[SWWI Shooter]

I have a 4.5-18 LRHS and at 4.5 the donut of death is very visable. There are some illuminated versions of the 4.5-18 out there but not the 3-12 version. I like the non-illuminated LRHS more than my illuminated 4.5-18 LRSTi for hunting because of the donut on the LRHS.

What model are you referring to when you say the 3-12 version? I'm also not familiar with the "donut of death" that you mention.

 

[ShtrRdy]

I looked at those in Cabelas the other day. really nice scope but those don't come in a capped windage knob do they?

No, they don't.

 

[Krazy_jim]

donut of death

 

[PFG]

View attachment 7032399donut of death

Best LR hunting reticle done by any manufacture. Love the G2H. It keeps me using the LRHS, and that’s not a bad thing.

 

[XTR]

Swarovski Z5 3.5-18x44 with a BRH reticle

Doesn't have illumination or a target knob but checks most of the other boxes,

Pretty close to perfect hunting scope for my purposes. Light, great glass, and .5 mil hold overs.

 

[wade2big]

Close but no lighted reticle. Yes, I know I'm being picky.

As long as the reticle is thick enough and in the SFP, illumination isn’t necessary for me. I havent hunted with a Leupold scope with a duplex reticle and ever thought illumination was necessary all the way until dark. Now with a thin mil or moa reticle it may be. I have no experience hunting with those. Now a FFP scope illumination is a necessity.

 

[260284]

What model are you referring to when you say the 3-12 version? I'm also not familiar with the "donut of death" that you mention.

Bushnell made a LRHS in 3-12 model with the same reticle as the 4.5-18.

 

[260284]

I took an offhand shot to put down a buck that my son shot 3 years ago. Had my 4.5-18 LRHS on my 260 CTR. The buck raised his head after 2 shots to the vitals, so I put one thru his neck at 80-90 yards. I had the scope at 4.5 and the ring in the G2H reticle is close to the size of a deer's vitals. Really fast to pick up for a quick follow up shot. That scope is on my Tikka 223 varmint and is probably going to end up on my 18" AR for coyotes.

 

[XTR]

The LRHS and the Z5 BRH are about as good as it gets for a hunting scope that doesn't do some kind of ballistic reticle that only works for some hypothetical bullet, and that doesn't have a bunch of tactical/target hooey that you don't need or want on a hunting scope.

I've got a Z3 and a Z5 with the BRX / BRH reticle, get the BRH, the BRX is too thin, but I deal with it on my Z3.

 

[crunchy]

Another vote for the Leupold VX6hd in 3-18

 

[PFG]

Another vote for the Leupold VX6hd in 3-18

I had a VX6 once. Then I sent it to Leupold bc the paper thin rubber washers under the ele and wind knobs wouldn’t sit properly without sticking out the side of the housing.

I sent it to Leupold.

They sent it back: functions properly.

I quickly sold it.

I don’t own a single Leupold any more, and happy to have moved on to greener pastures made with better components and more reliable tracking.

I post this just to give pause to future Leupold buyers. I found their quality lacking and the CS on the same footing. I’d buy a SWFA 3-15HD over anything in the VX6 line.

 

[wade2big]

I had a VX6 once. Then I sent it to Leupold bc the paper thin rubber washers under the ele and wind knobs wouldn’t sit properly without sticking out the side of the housing.

I sent it to Leupold.

They sent it back: functions properly.

I quickly sold it.

I don’t own a single Leupold any more, and happy to have moved on to greener pastures made with better components and more reliable tracking.

I post this just to give pause to future Leupold buyers. I found their quality lacking and the CS on the same footing. I’d buy a SWFA 3-15HD over anything in the VX6 line.

I would buy a SWFA 3-15 HD as well if it existed.

The 3-15x42 is a great scope. It is not a greAt hunting scope though. If it had illumination it would be a contender for sure. Probably would be one of the few scopes I would own.

 

[JT1178]

https://cameralandny.com/shop/Athlo...0163e90e196?variation=1677947&query=midas HMR

I’d look into these.

 

[JMGlasgow]

Nightforce SHV

 

[lou400a]

I too like the LRHS 3-12 and 4.5-18, but I like P4xi 4-16x56 better in low light. Wish the P4xi had the circle of death reticle like the LRHS and low profile turrets of the T5xi

 

[408w]

https://cameralandny.com/shop/Athlon-Optics-Midas-HMR-2.5-15x50-AHMR-SFP-IR-MOA/09435180-dc26-0135-d8f0-00163e90e196?variation=1677947&query=midas HMR

I’d look into these.

X2- I am also looking for the exact same scope and this is the closest I could get.

 

[AllWorkAndNoPlay]

I have a Nightforce 2.5-10x42mm with the IHR that’s MOA and it works great for me. Killed a buck last year that I jumped while he was running away from me across a field more than 100 yards out while on 5x and the scope & reticle were very quick to acquire target and the deer jerky in my fridge is payback for my shelling out $2k for it...

 

[beetroot]

Leupold 3-18 VX6hd with Tmoa fits your description perfectly.

 

[jb1000br]

Nightforce NXS 2.5-10x42mm with MOAR Reticle. Close but no exposed elevation turret on that one.

Better look at that again....though the windage cap is also exposed, so that may be a problem...seems like it checks the rest of the boxes though

https://www.eurooptic.com/nxs-25-10...-c458.aspx?utm_source=eoic2017&utm_medium=JAB

That said I have one of these on a 5lb barrett fieldcraft that is surprisingly a 1/2 moa gun with 143 eld. Planning to run it out to 1k shortly for entertainment sake.

 

[crunchy]

Leupold 3-18 VX6hd with Tmoa fits your description perfectly.

I am ordering mine next week.

 

[AllWorkAndNoPlay]

Better look at that again....though the windage cap is also exposed, so that may be a problem...seems like it checks the rest of the boxes though

That's right mine has exposed turrets, but with the zero stop on the elevation it's not an issue and mine also has parallax adjustment.

 

[beretta_man11]

That's right mine has exposed turrets, but with the zero stop on the elevation it's not an issue and mine also has parallax adjustment.

I've always like the 2.5-10x42 but thought the windage should be capped. Otherwise, it's really nice.

 

[PFG]

If NF is reading this...bring us the NXS with a capped wind knob. Keep the zero stop elevation. Bum the G2H off Bushnell, or bring out something similar. Keep the weight under 24oz. You’ll sell the HECK out of it.

 

[AllWorkAndNoPlay]

If NF is reading this...bring us the NXS with a capped wind knob. Keep the zero stop elevation. Bum the G2H off Bushnell, or bring out something similar. Keep the weight under 24oz. You’ll sell the HECK out of it.

The windage knob isn’t easy to turn, so you prolly have zero chance of moving it accidentally and if you do bump it and it moves a click you’re just looking at a 1/4 MOA change or 0.1 Mil so it’s not even worth thinking about. That said, if you hunt you always will check your scope settings long before you ever put the bead on a trophy...

 

[maverick2]

Your list is what I began looking for 6+ years ago, and bought the closest thing I could find -- lacking one item. (Most lacked more.) I ended up buying a Leica ER 3.5-14x42 with IBS reticle, and it quickly became my favorite scope. The only thing it lacked was the illuminated reticle, which didn't bother me at all for the rifle it went on. These have since been discontinued by Leica and are tough to find. My second choice was a Leica ERi 2-10x42 or ERi 3-12x50, both w/ IBS reticle. Both are illuminated, but these lack the side parallax adjustment. My second heavily used rifle wears the 2.5-10x42. Both of these are a little more common to find than the 3.5-14. (You can currently find a 3-12x50 at https://www.eurooptic.com/leica-er-i-3-12x50-ibs-bdc-56032-rifle-scope.aspx

 

[jda2631]

Since you said that you have the vx6 and don't like that it goes to 18 power, you want 10-15 on the high end. Whats wrong with the VX5HD 3-15, or 2-10 or VX6HD 2-12? With the impact reticles those hit every one of your criteria. the vx5HD 3-15x44 with impact reticle is right at $1000.

 

[PFG]

Since you said that you have the vx6 and don't like that it goes to 18 power, you want 10-15 on the high end. Whats wrong with the VX5HD 3-15, or 2-10 or VX6HD 2-12? With the impact reticles those hit every one of your criteria. the vx5HD 3-15x44 with impact reticle is right at $1000.

He didn’t mention it, but I assume the OP wants a scope that tracks and RTZ.

IMO, that removes Leupold from the list. Especially all the VX line. The Mark line might be better, but I haven’t owned one to comment.

 

[beetroot]

He didn’t mention it, but I assume the OP wants a scope that tracks and RTZ.

IMO, that removes Leupold from the list. Especially all the VX line. The Mark line might be better, but I haven’t owned one to comment.

The VX 5 and VX 6 line track and return to zero just fine.

 

[JaoeyP]

The Zeiss V4 line would check a lot of boxes. 4-16x. 2moa marked reticle. MOA turret with zero stop. Capped windage. The 4-16x models are not illuminated, but the reticle is thick enough if you have shooting light you can see it. Pretty lightweight and some of the best glass in a $1000 optic. It's what I keep on my hunting rig.