Looking for the "glock" of ARs.....

[Ape_Factory]

Check out Del-Ton. Several of their offerings are in the 6 pound range, not too heavy, and they offer a ton of different configurations and they're well below $1000 street. I've been "upgrading" my Del-Ton but it shot surprisingly well out of the box@100 yards. I've since swapped in a completely new upper and was shocked at how loose the Del-To barrel fit into the Del-Ton upper receiver. But it was a 1 MOA rifle with hand loads, 50gr, with the 1:9 twist heavy barrel. Never failed to fire or chamber a round in normal use. Go figure. Seems to have broken in very well too. Only thing that remains is the lower but that's mostly because I was chasing a sub-5lb. rifle and I read too many forums.

If you look at .308, take a look at the POF Revolution DI or the Rogue. As light as a standard AR15 but much more fire power. Plus you can actually find things like large rifle primers (or ammo for that matter) if you hand load. I have a Revolution DI and actually prefer it to the AR15.

 

[hafejd30]

Your carrying to shoot varmints...

Palmetto state Armory in 556 is what I’d get

I’ve owned psa, S&W, Rock River, Daniel Defense, Armalite and a few others. For a get dirty don’t care yet reliable weapon the PSA is just fine.

Go to there site. Buy a complete lower with trigger of your choice. The have mil spec, enhanced polished, Geissele in different platforms. They’ll also have several stock options. Probably a page or 2 to choose from

Then select an upper of your choice. If you go CHF you’ll get a FN barrel. You can get a complete upper or without BCG/charging handle if you want to add your own.

The uppers go in and out of stock so you may not see exactly what you want right away.

You have a gun that will function perfectly fine for what you want to do. At a price point you won’t be scared to beat it up a bit.

I currently have 3 psa AR’s. They’re the ones I run drum mags/binary trigger etc on because that’s what they’re designed for. Zero complaints about them.

That said your chances of getting a lemon or issue is going to be higher compared to DD, KAC etc

Edit: If you have the $$ the Daniel Defense DDM4V11 was my favorite and would be my recommendation. But my PSA did the same for me in terms of general shooting (target/Varmint)

 

[Sincerd]

Bcm had been the glock of ars for the past 5 years or more.

Also, seen a good deal of what i would call bad suggestions.

Don't cheap out on a lower, true thry will all work BUT who knows if you'll be able to get another. People think the riots and looting is the reson for the panic, i assure you thats just what lit the fire. The gas is the election projections and bidens rhetoric. One of his top 3 issues is awb.

Id get the lower you want now, or search until you can find it. Throw a bcm upper on it and be good.

 

[Bakwa]

Check out Del-Ton. Several of their offerings are in the 6 pound range, not too heavy, and they offer a ton of different configurations and they're well below $1000 street. I've been "upgrading" my Del-Ton but it shot surprisingly well out of the box@100 yards. I've since swapped in a completely new upper and was shocked at how loose the Del-To barrel fit into the Del-Ton upper receiver. But it was a 1 MOA rifle with hand loads, 50gr, with the 1:9 twist heavy barrel. Never failed to fire or chamber a round in normal use. Go figure. Seems to have broken in very well too. Only thing that remains is the lower but that's mostly because I was chasing a sub-5lb. rifle and I read too many forums.

I'd want to caution recommending rifles from companies with lower standards of QC and who source parts from random no name low bidders.
This is almost the equivalent to recommending Taurus to someone seeking a Glock alternative.
Yours might be great, but there are enough examples out there that aren't which should worry someone considering them.
I'd personally feel more confident recommending even PSA over Delton for a durable option.

 

[TheBigCountry]

Grab one of the PSA boating lowers right now and have WOA build you an upper

Also, if you can find one, a LWRC DI rifle is another option. I went looking today and the price of DDs and others have skyrocketed.

 

[bama1]

Haven’t seen it mention yet, but this seems like 6.5 grendel territory to me. No problem with recoil pertaining to wife, you stay in lighter AR-15 platform and you can say buying a 223/5.56 upper will help in her training and save money with cheaper ammo. I’m a sneaky sumbish lol

 

[cheesefries]

Wow- lots of suggestions are recommendations, thank you. I am completely intimidated on buying parts and putting a rifle together, so I just dont see that happening. I have always like Seekins, and LMT also seems like a good solid starting point. I was out with my .243 bolt rifle tonight taking some shots at 200 yards at milk jugs and I have come to the conclusion for mostly coyotes and with pastures being as hilly as they are, a good ole 5.56/.223 will prob do the trick and be easiest to get started with. And I also think a good solid (banging around on a 4 wheeler) 3x9 scope should be plenty for my needs.

 

[Disfunctional_Engineer]

Well if you're going to build a big AR I think i would do a 243. Built one for a customer a while ago. When I shot it i could keep 20 rounds in an inch with factory 80gr blue box Federal. If you do the AR 15 size i think the new 6mm ARC has alot of promise.

DPMS used to make this in a factory setup. Not sure if they do any more. I built my own using a Mcgowen barrel and love it. My 8YO does too, I took him out for his first time. That prairie dog sticker never knew what hit it.

A big upside of this that isn't talked about is that standard LR308 mags work and there's no quirkyness to it since everything below the neck is 308. I thought about 22-250 or heck even 220 Swift but read mixed things on feeding with them.

The big weakness of 243 IMO is factory ammo selection for the longer range stuff. There's a few decent factory loads but most of what you find are the 100 grain rounds that don't have a high BC and some light high vel 55-58 grain bullets. There's not really much of any heavy for caliber "match grade" ammo available. The other weakness is barrel life from what I understand but I really have as of yet to test that. I suspect it comes down to ammo choice and how you use the gun too. In a case where you're largely hunting it's an excellent setup with factory loads.

I would also give the Grendel some consideration. It's a nice looking round and you can even get steel case ammo for it. I'm surprised it's not more common at a level or two. Good performance and a lot less weight. I know you said that wasn't a huge issue but man my LR308 is heavier than my AR-15 is. Maybe I just need to hit the gym.

 

[sparky702]

Wow- lots of suggestions are recommendations, thank you. I am completely intimidated on buying parts and putting a rifle together, so I just dont see that happening. I have always like Seekins, and LMT also seems like a good solid starting point. I was out with my .243 bolt rifle tonight taking some shots at 200 yards at milk jugs and I have come to the conclusion for mostly coyotes and with pastures being as hilly as they are, a good ole 5.56/.223 will prob do the trick and be easiest to get started with. And I also think a good solid (banging around on a 4 wheeler) 3x9 scope should be plenty for my needs.

We have dairy goats and raise chickens , quail , turkeys and occasionally rabbits , the biggest issue I have is coyote , raccoon , bobcats , fox , and the occasional feral hog . my property for the most part is hilly and heavy forest except for a power line right of way . most of my shots at predators are 100 yds or less my weapon of choice is a 16 inch colt model 6940 loaded with Hornady 60 grain v max since it matches the come ups on my acog . I think a 16 inch carbine 5.56 with a decent optic will suit you well for what your looking to do .
This is how I start my day

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Let see, you want a farm gun but you also want it to be reliable. It might be best to go with a cheap lower receiver and invest on a middle of the pack upper receiver.

Honestly any cheap lower will do as long as the takedown pins lock and secure the upper receiver. There may be some rattle but that is acceptable.

But if you are want a whole rifle. Then it really depends on your budget. Bushmaster, Smith & Wesson, etc. sounds like it may fit your needs. I personally like Yankee Hill Machine - they have some varmint rifles.

Upper tier ar15s would be Noveske and Knights Armament.

Colt may be a little pricey nowadays especially when they discontinued civilian ar15 production. The Colt LE6920 Socom which used to be $1,200-$1,500 is now $2,500-$3,000.

Noveske hasn't made one fucking thing since John has died, that is new, innovative or worth owning. I mean unless you are into $300 hammers. Its been over a decade now.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

For higher dollar / high reliability LMT and Centurion have already been mentioned.

For more mid-dollar but still reliable, along with the already-named Aero (who make parts for other manufacturers/brands) and Rock River, Stag Arms does a 6.5 and I think their stuff is underrated. I had one; while the Gucci crew looked at it snootily, it was a champ. YMMV of course.

Rock River is junk and is out of busniess, Stag is trash junk just CMT's retail arm and Aero can't even make a reciever in spec. They all suck.

 

[steelcomp]

The "Glock" of AR's ...IMO would be Stag Arms.

 

[steelcomp]

Rock River is junk and is out of busniess, Stag is trash junk just CMT's retail arm and Aero can't even make a reciever in spec. They all suck.

In your opinion...

 

[steelcomp]

Noveske hasn't made one fucking thing since John has died, that is new, innovative or worth owning. I mean unless you are into $300 hammers. Its been over a decade now.

Do you have anything good to say about anything? Without a four letter vocabulary? Asking for a friend...

 

[CrabsandFootball]

The "Glock" of AR's ...IMO would be Stag Arms.

Wrong. The Glock of AR's would be Colt, as already stated. Or even BCM which is just colt quality with more options and cheaper.

Baseline quality, built correctly, can trust your life to it, none of the fancy upgrades that only a FEW companies can do right to increase functionality without destroying reliability (ALA KAC, LMT, ect).

Stag is trash. They were nothing but the the retail arm on CMT which was one of the biggest OEM's back in the day. Your basic bitch AR comparable to poverty pony or PSA today. Shit for the poors. Their CEO got run out of town for manufacturing hundreds of illegals lowers and machines guns by the ATF. Clown show.

CMT is nothing but a defense machine shop with AR's not even being their core competency. They were never one of the "approved" brands for duty/hard use back in the day.

You should really learn your history.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

In your opinion...

My opinion RRA is out of business?
My Opinion Stag is CMT house brand?
My Opinion Areo sends out so many bad products many builders including a ton on this site, refuse to use them?

I see when facts hurt your feelings, they are just opinions. You should do well in 2020 bizzaro world.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Do you have anything good to say about anything? Without a four letter vocabulary? Asking for a friend...

Can you refute what I said? Try using actual facts and evidence.

Since you asked, Noveske is overpriced garbage on par with LWRC and POF (Not the pakis, who can actually make a great HK clone when they care). The only things they ever made worth owning was the switchblock which was the predecessor to modern day AGB's (which is now completely obsolete) and their barrels which were nothing but Pac Nors (which burned down last year) . In a time when options were limited, they were OK. Good barrels were much harder to come by and Noveske despite being pricy, would perform. John died and so did all innovation and quality control. They have been limping on his memory every since, not producing a single fucking thing that someone else doesn't do better and cheaper. They should just close shop and save everyone the time and effort.

There is more trash in the gun world than gold. Sorry to break it to you.

 

[TheBigCountry]

Beginning to think I’ve seen this rhetoric from a certain member before...who’s last incarnation before the BanCat makes a good band look bad

 

[FishinGuns]

I have no issue with Noveske barrels. I think they are good bang for the buck in terms of profile, durability, accuracy, and the fact they come with a good, pinned gas block & gas tube.

 

[Sincerd]

Can you refute what I said? Try using actual facts and evidence.

Since you asked, Noveske is overpriced garbage on par with LWRC and POF (Not the pakis, who can actually make a great HK clone when they care). The only things they ever made worth owning was the switchblock which was the predecessor to modern day AGB's (which is now completely obsolete) and their barrels which were nothing but Pac Nors (which burned down last year) . In a time when options were limited, they were OK. Good barrels were much harder to come by and Noveske despite being pricy, would perform. John died and so did all innovation and quality control. They have been limping on his memory every since, not producing a single fucking thing that someone else doesn't do better and cheaper. They should just close shop and save everyone the time and effort.

There is more trash in the gun world than gold. Sorry to break it to you.

Actually noveske lives on barrels. Their CHF doubled CL barrels are the best, high fire schedule barrels in the business if you ask me. They have pretty good quality recievers. What you said can apply to everything else.

I have no issue with Noveske barrels. I think they are good bang for the buck in terms of profile, durability, accuracy, and the fact they come with a good, pinned gas block & gas tube.

Not really bang for buck. Top of the list as far as money and performance ime.

 

[Voyager1]

Or

Buy once, cry once.
LMT, Seekins, JP...
Or build your own and don’t skimp on the parts.

Knights Armament SR 15 (one of the if not THE SMOOTHEST shooting AR’s I own....BCM (GREAT RIFLE for the price point), Noveske, LMT, HK MR556, and a newly acquired Geissele super duty from February of this year...a fantastic rifle ... JP also excellent....
..decide how accurate your rifle needs to be...if it’s a 10 power, I choose the Nightforce 2.5-10x42 Mil With a Spuhr Mount and an offset RMR red RED dot YMMV.

Then buy the Black Hills 77 grain TMK Ammo and your GTG!
JMHO

 

[Sincerd]

^^^When did Glock become the best thing money can buy?

 

[steelcomp]

Or

Knights Armament SR 15 (one of the if not THE SMOOTHEST shooting AR’s I own....BCM (GREAT RIFLE for the price point), Noveske, LMT, HK MR556, and a newly acquired Geissele super duty from February of this year...a fantastic rifle ... JP also excellent....
..decide how accurate your rifle needs to be...if it’s a 10 power, I choose the Nightforce 2.5-10x42 Mil With a Spuhr Mount and an offset RMR red RED dot YMMV.

Then buy the Black Hills 77 grain TMK Ammo and your GTG!
JMHO

Yep. My SR15 E3 on an 80% lower. One of the first I ever did.

 

[Powder_Burns]

^^^When did Glock become the best thing money can buy?

Yeah I don’t think OP meant a striker fired AR with a polymer lower that bulges brass..

 

[Disfunctional_Engineer]

^^^When did Glock become the best thing money can buy?

I think he meant he wanted the Toyota Camry of rifles. Nothing too fast or fancy, practical, reliable, and of moderate cost. That's generally the stuff that people associate with a Glock. There are certainly better out there but they do a lot of things fairly well however not spectacularly. To me that's more of a 12-1300 max price point (exc glass) vs the 2K+ some have been posting up. Merely my perspective however.

Personally I'm of the "build it and sink your money into the scope, barrel and trigger" camp. That way you get what you really want and little that you don't. Maybe a fancy hand guard if you're feeling like you want to paint the town red.

 

[david walter]

Glock of ARs is a Colt, or an LMT, in my experience. Most of the guys I know running ARs with 20,000+ rounds and no complaints are running these two.

Given the political situation in the US right now, whatever you buy now might have to last for a good long time.

Don’t be cheap when trying to be thrifty.

They’re different things.

“Buy once, cry once” is a thing because many of us have spent lots of money chasing a cheap solution that cost extra money in the end.

I know I have.

 

[steelcomp]

Glock of ARs is a Colt, or an LMT, in my experience. Most of the guys I know running ARs with 20,000+ rounds and no complaints are running these two.

Given the political situation in the US right now, whatever you buy now might have to last for a good long time.

Don’t be cheap when trying to be thrifty.

They’re different things.

“Buy once, cry once” is a thing because many of us have spent lots of money chasing a cheap solution that cost extra money in the end.

I know I have.

Big difference between 20K rounds over several years vs 20K rounds in two or three days of battle / fire fight conditions. I have a friend who worked for a private contractor in the Middle East and ten years ago he was doing nothing but buying and testing weapons. He told me not too many commercial rifles can stand up to that without some sort of bolt failure. I think LMT is one and KAC would be another. Been a long time since I've talked to him. He might have mentioned LWRC as well. The KAC has a proprietary bolt and extension and I think he said that was the one he would choose over the rest. He said bolt failures at the cam pin bore were the most common.

 

[UpSideDown]

Big difference between 20K rounds over several years vs 20K rounds in two or three days of battle / fire fight conditions. I have a friend who worked for a private contractor in the Middle East and ten years ago he was doing nothing but buying and testing weapons. He told me not too many commercial rifles can stand up to that without some sort of bolt failure. I think LMT is one and KAC would be another. Been a long time since I've talked to him. He might have mentioned LWRC as well.

Let me know how many oven mits you need to shoot 20-30,000 rounds in 72 hours? I'd also like to know how many ammunition trailers were supplied per person, and what the hourly wage was of the person loading the magazines.

 

[steelcomp]

Let me know how many oven mits you need to shoot 20-30,000 rounds in 72 hours? I'd also like to know how many ammunition trailers were supplied per person, and what the hourly wage was of the person loading the magazines.

Who said anything a out 30K rounds?
Unlimited ammo, government contractors, yes, people to load mags...or they did that before testing. Whatever. I wasn't there so I don't know the details but do the math: one round a second is 3600 rounds an hour. Extend that out over a ten hour day when that's your JOB to do destructive testing... 10K a day is pretty easy. Maybe not in a firefight...that would be pretty brutal for two days straight, I agree, but the point is, there were only a few rifles that we have access to, commercially, that could take that kind of sustained abuse which goes to David Walter's point of buy once, cry once which I agree with. Not looking for an argument.

 

[Cj3waker]

A 16" creedmoor would be a pretty slick package, AR-10 (short action) stuff is much spendier and harder to get, especially during a panic.

Might be easier to go 223 for your first with availability right now. PSA, Aero, BCM, Midwest industries, M&P, Brownells , DPMS, Delton are all good places to start for complete guns or build kits. There are definitely other good ones, and other expensive ones. Just stay away from cheapo depot stuff

Solid optic and mount is important. 15x seems like a lot of mag too. I feel like this gun is screaming for an acog

Whether you go 223 or 6.5 creedmoor make sure you have a solid handguard setup. Cheapo free float tubes can get destroyed fairly easily, there are tons of great ones out there, and most of the above mfgs have solid tubes, otherwise my favorite budget handguard is the ALG rail

Regular, non freefloated handguards are a pretty great option for a beater gun too

 

[Voyager1]

Yep. My SR15 E3 on an 80% lower. One of the first I ever did.

View attachment 7386362

Wow! great Job! My eyes are big!

 

[Voyager1]

A 16" creedmoor would be a pretty slick package, AR-10 (short action) stuff is much spendier and harder to get, especially during a panic.

Might be easier to go 223 for your first with availability right now. PSA, Aero, BCM, Midwest industries, M&P, Brownells , DPMS, Delton are all good places to start for complete guns or build kits. There are definitely other good ones, and other expensive ones. Just stay away from cheapo depot stuff

Solid optic and mount is important. 15x seems like a lot of mag too. I feel like this gun is screaming for an acog

Whether you go 223 or 6.5 creedmoor make sure you have a solid handguard setup. Cheapo free float tubes can get destroyed fairly easily, there are tons of great ones out there, and most of the above mfgs have solid tubes, otherwise my favorite budget handguard is the ALG rail

Regular, non freefloated handguards are a pretty great option for a beater gun too

Giessele makes some awesome free float hand guards indeed....

 

[Disfunctional_Engineer]

A 16" creedmoor would be a pretty slick package, AR-10 (short action) stuff is much spendier and harder to get, especially during a panic.

Might be easier to go 223 for your first with availability right now. PSA, Aero, BCM, Midwest industries, M&P, Brownells , DPMS, Delton are all good places to start for complete guns or build kits. There are definitely other good ones, and other expensive ones. Just stay away from cheapo depot stuff

Solid optic and mount is important. 15x seems like a lot of mag too. I feel like this gun is screaming for an acog

Whether you go 223 or 6.5 creedmoor make sure you have a solid handguard setup. Cheapo free float tubes can get destroyed fairly easily, there are tons of great ones out there, and most of the above mfgs have solid tubes, otherwise my favorite budget handguard is the ALG rail

Regular, non freefloated handguards are a pretty great option for a beater gun too

I would also add that AR-10 is not a beginners AR and requires significantly more research to get the right parts. Due to the lack of a "mil spec" there tends to be some interop issues. At a minimum I would advise buying the receiver set together and note that DPMS pattern stuff has at least 3 heights for the pic rail on the upper I'm aware of at this point. Be sure to get the right one. I made the mistake of getting a Sportical upper and having to do some weird stuff because I wanted a barrel mounted iron sight.

In terms of hand guards The cheapies I have seem to be durable. Where the down sides are is 1-I've got a couple Nordic Components rails that are bulky 2-They can be heavy and 3-The NC-1 rails I have don't have a way to keep top mounted rail sections aligned with the tube e.g. the tube can spin freely on the barrel nut. These are some annoyances I've ended up having to work around so they're good to keep in mind.

I agree, don't necessecarily discount not free floating depending on the range.

 

[RTV]

I'd want to caution recommending rifles from companies with lower standards of QC and who source parts from random no name low bidders.
This is almost the equivalent to recommending Taurus to someone seeking a Glock alternative.
Yours might be great, but there are enough examples out there that aren't which should worry someone considering them.
I'd personally feel more confident recommending even PSA over Delton for a durable option.

Where are you hearing about QC issues?

I have a delton 316m
My uncle has a delton he forgot the specific model for.

Both our guns have been 100% reliable and his is a 1 MOA shooter as well with handloads (he did put a BCM KMR rail on.)

Mine isn't that accurate but then again it also just has a magpul plastic handgaurd and I don't reload yet.

Genuinely curious, might speed up some of the upgrades I was planning on.

 

[soap11x]

What a tricky question. The AR platform is the Glock of rifles. Now to the substance: In terms of price? Perhaps a plain colt ar. Similar in terms of reliability? Lots of good guns out there including DD, POF, BCM, and may other. There are many semi-custom ARs out there that are amazing. For me, I'd always pick a DD simply because everything is made in house and because I have used an abused my MK18 without any noteworthy issues. Nothing about it is custom and the gun is made to mil-spec dimensions. That said, it operates like better than any other AR I shot out of the box. This goes for all DD's I own. It was also my service rifle so I am a little biased and have a sentimental attachment to the manufacturer.

 

[Bakwa]

Where are you hearing about QC issues?

I have a delton 316m
My uncle has a delton he forgot the specific model for.

Both our guns have been 100% reliable and his is a 1 MOA shooter as well with handloads (he did put a BCM KMR rail on.)

Mine isn't that accurate but then again it also just has a magpul plastic handgaurd and I don't reload yet.

Genuinely curious, might speed up some of the upgrades I was planning on.

I ran a shop for a few years. We sold several dozen Del-Ton rifles. Some to repeat customers and some to customers I never saw again. If I had to put a number on it, I'd say 1-2 out of every 10 we sold to people who shot them on a regular basis came back with problems. Same went for ATI and like priced brands.
Even everyone's favorite PSA's came back pretty frequently with problems; not as much as the former brands mentioned, but a significant enough number to notice.
We had great luck with AR brands like FN, Colt, BCM, Spikes, etc... DD had a phase where they had a few issues, but I'd comfortably put them up there with the Colt's, etc. as well.
Read that for what it's worth. Just my experience.

 

[acudaowner]

well Id rather have the naked supermodel of ar's but to each there own I guess or maybe the tonka truck of ar's