Looking to buy an inexpensive .223

[beaverpelt]

I'm leaning towards the Howa 1500 20" heavy barrel with the Hogue stock. My only hang up is that by reading some threads here is that a 1:9 twist is not as desirable as a 1:8 to stabalize 77gr bullets. The Rem 700 SPS also has a 1:9 twist I believe. I've looked at the Tikka T3x, while very nice, I'm not fan of the stock and it is about $300 more in cost. Another thing I like about the Howa is that the barrel is already threaded from the factory. Am I reading too much into the 1:9 vs 1:8 twist rates here and those that have more experience than me tell me which is the better rifle to get; the Howa 1500 or the SPS .223. They both cost about the same.

 

[PAYDIRT]

Lots of info out there, just do some research. I went with the sps because of many aftermarket options available and those will also fit a custom build if I decide to do that later.

 

[BoilerUP]

2018 Howa 223s will have 1:8 twist, I believe...

 

[stello1001]

Howa has all the aftermarket support it needs

 

[308pirate]

I am here to tell you that a 1 in 9 20" barrel will NOT stabilize any 77 grain .224" bullet. Whatever rifle you get, make sure it has at least a 1 in 8 or faster twist if you want to shoot anything heavier than 69 grains.

Having said that, the Howa 1500 is just plain a better made rifle than anything Remington makes today. If you do buy a Howa with a 1-9 barrel, just know that Criterion barrels will be releasing their barrel nut prefit barrels for the 1500 after SHOT. With those barrels and a few hand tools it's simple to rebarrel the rifle at home.

I will be buying one of those barrels with a 1-7 twist as soon as they're available to replace the factory barrel on my 223 Howa.

 

[308pirate]

2018 Howa 223s will have 1:8 twist, I believe...

There will be plenty of inventory with 1-9 barrels still left after the change. Buyer beware.

 

[BoilerUP]

I am here to tell you that a 1 in 9 20" barrel will NOT stabilize any 77 grain .224" bullet.

I'll disagree with that.

I know stability calculators don't always reflect real life results, but a few years back I had a 26" 1:9 223 barrel from a Savage 12FV and it was a no-shit, sub-half MOA shooter for five-shot groups at 200 yards with the Hornady 75gr HPBT @ 2860fps over Varget. In my AO, that provided a stability factor of 1.44. I was a damned fool for ever selling that barrel.

While the 75gr HPBT admittedly isn't the same bullet as a 77gr Nosler CC or SMK, it only has .01 more stability factor than a 77gr SMK at the same velocity.

With that same barrel, I shot 10 round, 3/4 MOA groups at 200 yards with the 75gr Amax and Varget...which provided me with a stability factor of 1.01. All holes were nice and round through the target, absolutely zero keyholing.

A 77gr SMK @ 2650fps (very easily achievable from a 20" bolt gun) in the same 500' AGL/standard atmosphere will have a stability factor of 1.39...hardly stabilized.

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...-howa-twist-rate-update?p=6815958#post6815958

 

[mi223]

Lots of reports online of 9 twists shooting 75s with great results. But it does seem to be hit or miss.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

[308pirate]

Regardless of what computer models show, MY 24" Howa 1500 will not stabilize Hornady 75 HPBT @ 2700 fps nor will it stabilize Hornady 68 HPBT at 2950 fps.

If the OP wants to roll the dice with the same rifle with an even shorter (less MV) barrel, it's his money not mine.

 

[varano14]

What distance do you plan on regularly shooting out to? I use a 1-9 with the 69 gr'ers out to 300 and they hammer. From what I've read they would do pretty well further then that if I had a chance. Point is if your never ganna be shooting at a distance where the 77gr bullets will really start to shine is it worth spending more on a barrel to shoot them? That was my thought process on the matter.

Side note my rifle shot the Hornsby 75gr bthp into sub 1 in five shot groups better ones were closer to 3/4 inch. Eventually I will be joining a range that goes out to 1000 at which point I may try loading up some 75gr bullets but for now the 69s do what I need

 

[steve123]

These inexpensive button rifled barrel could have, say a 9.1 twist, or a 8.9 twist, or the button could slip a tiny bit. It's the nature of cranking out mass produced button barrels.

Plus a H 75gr HPBT is known to stabilize easier in the 9's than the 77 SMK or Berger 75vld.

I had a 10 twist 243 that 105 amax worked in???

Though better safe than sorry.

It doesn't matter much inside 500Y between the 69's or the 75's, as far as windage goes.

 

[308pirate]

These inexpensive button rifled barrel could have, say a 9.1 twist, or a 8.9 twist, or the button could slip a tiny bit. It's the nature of cranking out mass produced button barrels.

Plus a H 75gr HPBT is known to stabilize easier in the 9's than the 77 SMK or Berger 75vld.

I had a 10 twist 243 that 105 amax worked in???

Though better safe than sorry.

It doesn't matter much inside 500Y between the 69's or the 75's, as far as windage goes.

I'm pretty sure Howa barrels are hammer forged, but I can't swear to it. If there's any variation from barrel to barrel it will be from any variation in the several ID mandrels they likely have for each bore profile. IOW, I'm sure they have multiple .224 bore 1-9 mandrels for the several machines.

 

[beaverpelt]

What distance do you plan on regularly shooting out to? I use a 1-9 with the 69 gr'ers out to 300 and they hammer. From what I've read they would do pretty well further then that if I had a chance. Point is if your never ganna be shooting at a distance where the 77gr bullets will really start to shine is it worth spending more on a barrel to shoot them? That was my thought process on the matter.

Side note my rifle shot the Hornsby 75gr bthp into sub 1 in five shot groups better ones were closer to 3/4 inch. Eventually I will be joining a range that goes out to 1000 at which point I may try loading up some 75gr bullets but for now the 69s do what I need

Probably 400yds max

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Probably 400yds max

You'll be absolutely fine shooting to 400 with a 1:9 shooting 69's, no need for a 8 twist and heavier bullets. Even a 1:12 with lighter bullets would still be fine.

 

[varano14]

Probably 400yds max

If my experience at 300 is any indication then I would second the above comment. You should have no problems with the 69gr bullets out to 400.

I went with the 223 as a learning tool and figured when I had access to a longer range and I was starting to be limited by the 223 regardless of the bullet I would step up to a larger caliber. Not sure what your future plans are but this was my attitude so just some food for thought. Whatever you do post pictures when you decided!

 

[NewsShooter]

As was posted above, savage 12 fv from cabelas, 1-9 twist but 26 inch barrel. That would be my suggestion, they go on sale pretty regularly too. Barrel swap is easy if you wanted to change it later with a pre-fit.

 

[mason.ostrom]

Ill chime in with this one. I bought a Mossberg MVP with the 24" threaded barrel last year for a cheep trainer, and varmint gun. I Liked the idea of running my bolt gun on AR15 mags. All of these rifles have a 1-9 twists so I was preparing myself to have to start loading 68/69gr bullets. But to my pleasant surprise this rifle took my good load for my AR15 (75gr HPBT over H4895) and ran it beautifully. Great groups at 100 yards and boringly easy to shoot at 600 yards. Then I tried some old Cor Bon Match 223 77gr SMK ammo I had laying around. It shot at a measly 2500 FPS, but still shot wonderfully all the way out to 600 yards. BTW I live and shoot only a few hundred feet above sea level, and have shot in very cold temps with good success. Two lessons to this story: 1. my experience has been that a 1-9 twist will stabilize 75/77gr bullets without issue. 2. The Mossberg MVP makes for a wonderful, inexpensive trainer/ varmint rifle.

 

[patriot07]

1:9 will sometimes stabilize 75 grains and higher, but you can't guarantee it like you can with 1:8.

If you're shooting at 400 max, any twist is fine. The Hornady 68 BTHP Match shoot great out of a 1:9 and will be fine at 400 yards.

 

[el_cazador713]

1:9 should be fine as most mentioned. Several outstanding choices available include Tikka and Savage with 1:8 to eliminate all doubt..