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Looks officially out, the Vortex Impact 4000 WMLRF
- Thread starter sneakypayload
- Start date
Considering one of these very heavily. I'm thinking a mid height RAPTAR mount from Spuhr would work well for mounting it on top of a ISMS. I'd just like to hear a few real world experiences first...recoil effects, holding zero..battery life...ect.
This looks great. If it works as well as my 4000GB range finder it’s going to rock!
Love the wind bearing mode (option to manually input wind speed & direction) to automatically update based on direction. Of course this isn’t perfect but should be helpful and nice to see the capability.
The network feature is sweet too, makes me really hope they have a thermal clip on in the works… they’ve already mentioned thermal capability for the XM157.
For $2k MAP I’m excited to own one! Wonder if they’ll do a 1550nm version for an increased cost?
The network feature is sweet too, makes me really hope they have a thermal clip on in the works… they’ve already mentioned thermal capability for the XM157.
For $2k MAP I’m excited to own one! Wonder if they’ll do a 1550nm version for an increased cost?
Wish it just connected to the kestrel and had AB.
I had the chance to get one before a match about 2 weeks ago. Also have owned a Raptar for a couple years. Hated to admit it but it did everything the Raptar could do plus some and at a fraction of the cost. Yeah, it’s bigger but just in height, the Raptar is wider.
It ranged perfectly, even in some non ideal conditions. (Just some rain, no heavy fog or anything like that). The returns were faster than my Raptar. It has a scan feature which is nice so if you have a skylined target, you can swipe back and forth across the target and watch as the range changes on the display to k ow you’re hitting the target and not what’s beyond.
As far as the ballistics calculator, I was a spot on match to my kestrel 5700x to about 800 yards and it varied 1/2 tenth at 1000. We didn’t have to shoot beyond that so I can’t attest for further out.
Big thing for me would have been zero retention because the Raptar kind of sucks there…. This thing didn’t move zero at all. I will say the tool that comes with it to tighten the mounting bolts is kinda lame. I’d just carry a 1/4 socket with a fix it stick set and you’d be good. I’m running mine on a Spuhr low Raptar mount and it kinda mitigates the increased height of the unit.
Overall, this thing is a win in my book. And oh yeah, it’s already rattle canned… lol
It ranged perfectly, even in some non ideal conditions. (Just some rain, no heavy fog or anything like that). The returns were faster than my Raptar. It has a scan feature which is nice so if you have a skylined target, you can swipe back and forth across the target and watch as the range changes on the display to k ow you’re hitting the target and not what’s beyond.
As far as the ballistics calculator, I was a spot on match to my kestrel 5700x to about 800 yards and it varied 1/2 tenth at 1000. We didn’t have to shoot beyond that so I can’t attest for further out.
Big thing for me would have been zero retention because the Raptar kind of sucks there…. This thing didn’t move zero at all. I will say the tool that comes with it to tighten the mounting bolts is kinda lame. I’d just carry a 1/4 socket with a fix it stick set and you’d be good. I’m running mine on a Spuhr low Raptar mount and it kinda mitigates the increased height of the unit.
Overall, this thing is a win in my book. And oh yeah, it’s already rattle canned… lol
Attachments
So, I’m not a military guy, and I have a general question on the value or use case of a weapon-mounted LRF.
Is such a thing best for solo guys who don’t have time to use a bino LRF? And/or those who must remain on the gun?
For me, pdog shooting, I am stationary and scan with LRF 15x or 10x binos way more than I am looking through the scope. Looking through the scope that long would wear me the eff out.
Just an info-gathering question.
Is such a thing best for solo guys who don’t have time to use a bino LRF? And/or those who must remain on the gun?
For me, pdog shooting, I am stationary and scan with LRF 15x or 10x binos way more than I am looking through the scope. Looking through the scope that long would wear me the eff out.
Just an info-gathering question.
We will post impressions later, but they are very positive so far 
These will sell like crazy!
cstactical.com
We have a few of them right now...
These will sell like crazy!
Vortex Impact 4000 Ballistic Laser Range Finder
CS Tactical - High Quality Optics including Zero Compromise Optics, ZCO, Zcompoptic, MRAD, 20 MOA. See our selection and get expert advice on the perfect scope for you.
cstactical.com
We have a few of them right now...
Great folks to buy fromWe will post impressions later, but they are very positive so far
Vortex Impact 4000 Ballistic Laser Range Finder
CS Tactical - High Quality Optics including Zero Compromise Optics, ZCO, Zcompoptic, MRAD, 20 MOA. See our selection and get expert advice on the perfect scope for you.
We have a few of them right now...
View attachment 8237244
WeatherAmbient temperature, absolute pressure, and relative humidity can be manually entered, or obtained by the Impact® 4000, a Kestrel®, a WeatherFlow®, or a nearby airport. Density altitude can be manually entered or obtained from the Kestrel® when connected to the GeoBallistics® App.
Replying to my own question as I found some answers on the following threads. For me, this product might not be real useful. Might be useful for you.
"Diving Boards" - Solutions or More Problems (WM-LRF)?
"RAPTARs on MARS" - Weighing System Complexity vs. Workflow Simplification [Scope + Weapon Mounted LRF] vs [BinoLRF + RDS] (integrated azimuth/bearing to reduce glass (bino->scope) transition time?) ---------- RAPTARs et al. look cool for sure, adds weight but not too much - probably not...
www.snipershide.com
Weapon Mounted LRF
Why is there such a gap in the market for a reasonably priced weapon mounted laser range finder?? What’s preventing someone from putting the sig kilo 5k tech in a metal body with a pic mount?? The tech is there I just don’t get it and I want one that doesn’t cost as much as my entire weapon system
www.snipershide.com
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This is really interesting.
About time someone came out with a weapon mounted LRF that isn't crazy expensive.
I imagine the SiCo Radius resale market just went to shit...
About time someone came out with a weapon mounted LRF that isn't crazy expensive.
I imagine the SiCo Radius resale market just went to shit...
my gunsmith has a bunch right now too. https://perryprecision.com/Vortex-I...ser-Rangefinder-with-GeoBallistics_p_122.html
I can't vouch enough for this dude. He's a great guy and will get them shipped fast. 1999.99 MAP
I can't vouch enough for this dude. He's a great guy and will get them shipped fast. 1999.99 MAP
based on the below it looks like this product will NOT use the kestrel for a ballistic solver. This is going to be a big miss. This product for me hinges on the ability to ADD to my current ballistic solutions I have no interest in adding in a new ballistic solver in my very well-working network (sig 5k, 5700 & HUD). I imagine others will feel similarly who have already spend this amount on their current proven ballistic solutions.
I wouldn't be surprised if Sig works with AB for future product renditions to incorporate AB solvers and kestrel compatibility.
They already have an established business relationship with AB and are using them in their other LRF's. Personally, i think it's just a matter of time before we see that integration.
It went to shit about 3 weeks before this thing came out. I have both a SiCo radius and the now Vortex one.
The vortex, of course, beats the SiCo.
And I'm sure all the Wilcox Raptar snobs and/or L3 Storm boys will shit on everyone saying stuff like
ItS nOt ThE sAmE!!!111 BeAm DiVeRgEnCe!!!111 and shit, but it's a different market.
The vortex is clearly for the tactical games crowd, thermal hunters, and others that DON'T want to drop 10k on a unit that might or might not hold zero, vs this, where it's not the complete cost of a thermal or other scope, and it's ok if you break it because vortex will warranty it.
Yeah, I don't think anyone who is going to buy a Wilcox Raptar will be swayed to this product. Like you point out, it's a different market segment.
Most people don't want to drop $7+k on a weapons mounted LRF. The SiCo filled a niche that people wanted at a price that people were willing to pay - but there was definitely some shortcomings to that specific product. How it's taken this long for a company like Sig to fill the void has been surprising to me.
Good for Sig for coming out with this.
We will post impressions later, but they are very positive so far
Vortex Impact 4000 Ballistic Laser Range Finder
CS Tactical - High Quality Optics including Zero Compromise Optics, ZCO, Zcompoptic, MRAD, 20 MOA. See our selection and get expert advice on the perfect scope for you.
We have a few of them right now...
View attachment 8237244
Here's a quick video we did...
MAP is 2k, Everywhere I see they are selling for about that much. Or 1/5 of a Raptar.
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I see nothing to complain about. It uses Geo Ballistics which works great. I see no practical difference between it and AB for my uses. I have not asked but I bet the new Vortex Military LRF scope uses Geo Ballistics so it’s proven fairly well to me
I see this as best/most economical solution to get weapon mounted LRF on a field weapon
It’s one step from automatic adjustments on a scope. I love the direction
I see this as best/most economical solution to get weapon mounted LRF on a field weapon
It’s one step from automatic adjustments on a scope. I love the direction
I can see why people would want to stay within one ballistics solver.
Not that I am necessarily going to purchase this product, but if I did, I would really appreciate the ability for it to use my AB profiles and the custom curve drag profiles I have on there. That would be important to me.
Nobody really needs the AB solver in the unit, we've all got AB Kestrels already. They just need to be able to communicate.
I'd love to see component manufacturers offer devices that do things like ranging, or GPS, or whatever, and the ability to communicate with different ecosystems to display data from other devices.
In other words, I want to buy one solver and have it talk to all devices. Do it with unlock codes or something, I don't need or want a ballistics engine from another ecosystem on another device.
Would it hurt ABs bottom line, probably, but it's silly buying the same solver and access to the same curve library repeatedly.
I'd love to see component manufacturers offer devices that do things like ranging, or GPS, or whatever, and the ability to communicate with different ecosystems to display data from other devices.
In other words, I want to buy one solver and have it talk to all devices. Do it with unlock codes or something, I don't need or want a ballistics engine from another ecosystem on another device.
Would it hurt ABs bottom line, probably, but it's silly buying the same solver and access to the same curve library repeatedly.
No, it does not. The military scope by Vortex runs on a government-provided software.
JBM, GEO and AB are essentially the same ballistics engine, the differences are moot, being all based on the same Point Mass method, which is very simple. Your right, AB add a premium which is hard to justify when compared to the other software.
^ This. I’ve already paid the AB premium I just want that to pass through this device. Those who don’t care about this can’t be shooting long range that much to not care about the hours and time spent perfecting their AB modeling.
Just because someone does not agree with you does not make them less of a shooter. I bet a whole lot of folks have done pretty well at long range shooting without AB
AB is great but many paths lead to the same outcome
So I tested this today to see if you were right. I took the exact AB solutions I have used and absolutely know are dead accurate and compared them against GeoBallistics. The GeoBallistics from 700yards on was an moa and increasingly inaccurate beyond in drop. The wind and spin was fairly accurate but highlights my exact complaints. Those with good shooting solutions will be forced to go to a lesser or at least different system for no good reason. Same is probably true for those using 4dof.
I’m not calling anyone a lesser shooter but am surprised that anyone with time beyond a good solver wants to change to a new one.
I used the exact same inputs in geo as my kestrel, same temp tables, and even paid the $15 to connect my kestrel for the environmental inputs and it was still inaccurate beyond 700.
I shoot 1k+ rounds a year at 800+ yards i know for certain fact the kestrel is the exact solution needed for my shooting.
All this being said this unit is badass and the kestrel pass thru is my only single gripe (granted it’s the one holding me back from buying it)
Think you’re missing the point. I’m not hating on the point or the laser or anything you mentioned. I also have no problems ranging targets with my current, accurate solution.
Vortex made a choice to lock out people from feeding their AB through the device. Unless the consumers push back on this they will not change it.
I have no problem ranging targets at 2k plus yards (https://arenatrainingfacility.com/) so I do not see any advantage there, even using a LRF handheld up to 1500 is no problem. I guess we are on different pages about how important an accurate ballistics solver is on a weapon mounted ballistic solver/ LRF.
data in data out.
vortex made a choice to buy an equal solver and not have to have Tremor type increases.
as someone who has used both for a long time. if you understand how to put the correct data in you get the same result back within like half a tenth. cant ask for much more at 1k plus
vortex made a choice to buy an equal solver and not have to have Tremor type increases.
as someone who has used both for a long time. if you understand how to put the correct data in you get the same result back within like half a tenth. cant ask for much more at 1k plus
Brother when I was shooting for US Team ( eight years in a row) I was shooting nearly a thousand rounds a month at 800-1000 yards. I shot high powered rifles in competition from mid 1980’s until I retired from comps a few years ago. I have wore out a ton of barrels. Now hold yourself because I have never used a Kestrel for wind calls. Too many different wind values between FFP and target
You remind me of the guy who said you can’t shoot with a Harris Bipod right after my buddies and I won multiple medals in an F TR World Championship with one. It’s all we really had in 2009 lol. Of course better bipods exist now but those still work and I don’t give students who use them shit. Many ways to get to same solution.
You can see the IR laser pulse under NV, there's video out there of it.
The solver thing is annoying. The point being missed that ruebinski is making is you can zero this LRF. You can't zero most handhelds, Kilo 10k does let you I believe.
There's also a stability issue with handhelds while you're waving it around trying to lase a target. When you have something hard mounted on a rifle or a spotter rail and it's zeroed and co aligned you can pinpoint lase stuff you otherwise wouldn't be able to.
The solver thing is annoying. The point being missed that ruebinski is making is you can zero this LRF. You can't zero most handhelds, Kilo 10k does let you I believe.
There's also a stability issue with handhelds while you're waving it around trying to lase a target. When you have something hard mounted on a rifle or a spotter rail and it's zeroed and co aligned you can pinpoint lase stuff you otherwise wouldn't be able to.
