Gunsmithing Lothar Walther UL or Carbon Fibre? Opinions?

[Capt Beach]

Anyone familiar with the Lothar Walther Ultra Light Weight sleeved barrel? According to my emails back and forth with them I can get a Varmint profile match quality 21 3/4" barrel blank pressed into an aluminum sleeve and be at 2lbs finished product...I don't think the ABS Carbon Fiber can do that...

Feedback? Anyone familiar with Lothar Walthers accuracy? This particular barrel?

Price is about the same $835-850 for the LW and $950ish for the ABS Carbon Fiber.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Lothar Walther UL or Carbon Fibre? Opinions?

I corresponded with L-W during the development of their ULW barrel to get the same kind of info you're asking. The gist is that test results demonstrated they are very accurate with proper load development, hold zero well, and shed heat to an amazing degree. Of the two, I would buy the L-W, and doing so is on my bucket list.

For me, the rapid heat dissipation is the tie breaker. There are some interesting chamberings that would be more interesting as a match chambering if barrel heat retention could be reduced significantly, like 22-250 and 280 Rem.

The application of the aluminum jacket is just such an especially sound engineering concept from a thermal management viewpoint. The fiber wound barrel saves weight, but I'm not really convinced about whatever else it's supposed to do.

So far, the right project and the necessary bucks have never gotten together for me.

Off, but pretty near, -topic; I have an identical pair of L-W LW50 stainless 28" 1:8" .260 Rem Savage prefit Varmint weight barrels that I love.

Greg

 

[Capt Beach]

Re: Lothar Walther UL or Carbon Fibre? Opinions?

This will be a savage build...thanks for the input...I am leaning towards LW...

Capt Beach

 

[hero's machine]

Re: Lothar Walther UL or Carbon Fibre? Opinions?

Did they expound on how they cope with the differences in coefficients of expansion?

 

[Steve Jensen]

Re: Lothar Walther UL or Carbon Fibre? Opinions?

Some of the newer carbon fiber "wrappers"are advertising very efficient, uniform and rapid heat dissipation

 

[Kells81]

Re: Lothar Walther UL or Carbon Fibre? Opinions?

Didn't one of the barrel manufacturers post some info on how well the Carbon Wrapped barrels don't really shed heat that great a while back? The aluminum concept sounds great. Might be worth a shot.

 

[buffybuster]

Re: Lothar Walther UL or Carbon Fibre? Opinions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hero's machine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did they expound on how they cope with the differences in coefficients of expansion? </div></div>

This is just a WAG but I'm guessing they do this similar to sleeving injection molding barrels. After the sleeve (rifle blank) and barrel (Al jacket) are reamed and honed to a high surface finish with a slight interference fit. The sleeve is placed in a freezer and the barrel in an oven. Once at the proper temperature the sleeve is dropped/slid into the barrel; the sleeve expands and the barrel contracts are the permanently locked together. Even though the coefficient of expansion is about double for Aluminum than steel, it's not enough loosen it.

 

[ejg]

Re: Lothar Walther UL or Carbon Fibre? Opinions?

The few LW alu barrels I handled had a very smooth fit between
barrel and sleeve. Sleeve could be removed by hand.
One barrel had the sleeve threaded at the rear and therefore could avoid tension due to thermal expansion differences.
Another barrel had the sleeve held on via nut at the muzzle. Presume that could build up some tension.
Pete Lincoln from Roedale built himself a 260 rem hunting rifle with a fat LW Alu and seems very happy.
edi

 

[JJones75]

Re: Lothar Walther UL or Carbon Fibre? Opinions?

I like the LW idea but think that setting it up as a tensioned barrel rather than a brews if would be a more consistent way to go , only a couple thousands gap and a tension nut on the muzzle.

we press fit alot of sleeve on pumps and stuff at work , mostly we use a .003" interfearance fit you bake the female part so it expands and opens the hole then freeze the male part so it contracts and shrinks. once the parts temps normalize they are mechanically locked together , works great when you need a 320 alloy sleeve for a seal on a shaft made from 416

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Lothar Walther UL or Carbon Fibre? Opinions?

When you look at the L-W UL web page, you will see that they have an individual who specializes in building rifles with these barrels, and that they encourage buyer contact.

I think this, in itself, is an incomparable asset, and that it ges without saying that you should be utilizing that option.

Sleeve tensioning was one of the subjects discussed, and initially, it was one of the items being tested. The testing uncovered some principles at work, and while I never got to follow things all the way to conclusion, it would appear that the accuracy goals were met regardless of whether the tensioning was applied or not.

Hard to speak for others, but the impression I got was that some of the initial concerns turned out to be less critical than expected.

Greg

 

[JJones75]

Re: Lothar Walther UL or Carbon Fibre? Opinions?

on a side note , if you get a LW barrel you better let your smith know !!
their SS , LW-50 or whatever they call it is basically 17-4 , same stuff the old Blackstar Accumax-II barrels were made from (LW made the barrels) and it cuts WAY differant than the 416 typically used in SS gun barrels.

alot of smiths won't mess with them

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Lothar Walther UL or Carbon Fibre? Opinions?

Yes, this is a long-standing issue.

The LW-50 material needs a special approach to machining. One needs only have their gunsmith contact Lothar-Walther for instructions on how to properly machine this material.

It's different, but it's not rocket surgery.

Basically, any properly equipped and trained gunsmith can work on these barrels without issues, as long as they take the time to do their homework.

Greg

 

[SurgeonPredator]

Re: Lothar Walther UL or Carbon Fibre? Opinions?

LW50 might be more demanding to machine but not impossible, any gunsmith that can't handle quality stainless steel might not have the proper equipment to do the job right.
Don't get me wrong, this is by no means an offense, but I read on the Hide some even refuse to machine LW50 which is somehow embarrassing for any smith (speaking from a machinist/engineer point of view).

There is always a downside, quality always requires time and/or effort.

 

[JJones75]

Re: Lothar Walther UL or Carbon Fibre? Opinions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SurgeonPredator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LW50 might be more demanding to machine but not impossible, any gunsmith that can't handle quality stainless steel might not have the proper equipment to do the job right.
Don't get me wrong, this is by no means an offense, but I read on the Hide some even refuse to machine LW50 which is somehow embarrassing for any smith (speaking from a machinist/engineer point of view).

There is always a downside, quality always requires time and/or effort. </div></div>

Yep , just takes a little getting use to and some Moly Dee. I thi nk the biggest thing guys run into is that it gets tough if you let it rub at all , not as forgiving at CM or 416.
Ive made two suppressors out of 17-4 and actualy like the way it cuts not

If LW50 or 17-4 gives you trouble then somehting tough like 718 Inconel would have your in tears

 

[nfoley]

Re: Lothar Walther UL or Carbon Fibre? Opinions?

I called L-W today to get some info on their UL barrels. The guy I spoke with stated the barrels are on average 40% lighter than conventional SS (on heavier contours).
Interestingly, he stated they have about 4 smiths they recommend to have the barrels fitted. When finished by the recommended smiths he said to expect 1/2-3/4 MOA accuracy. I am seriously considering one of these after speaking with them. I have a Manners T5 with the 90% fill which would be perfect for the build.
Would appreciate any more reviews from you guys that have one.

 

[BigBlue&Goldie]

Re: Lothar Walther UL or Carbon Fibre? Opinions?

Care to share who those smiths are? I'm sure I'm not the only one who is curious.

 

[tman300wm]

Re: Lothar Walther UL or Carbon Fibre? Opinions?

While I'm not familiar with the LW Aluminum Sleeveed barrels, I am familiar with LW barrels. I'm on my second LW barrel and all I can say is that they are very underrated. Both of mine (one in 25-06, and the other in .308 Win) are 1/2 min barrels with match grade ammo. They clean easy and I suspect that due to the hardness factor of LW50 SS they may provide a bit more longevity than 416 SS barrels. Both of mine were cut by Bobby Pitchford at PCG in Waller, TX. Thanks to the reasonable price and quality/accuracy of LW barrels, I will most likely re-barrel several of my match AR rifles with LW in the future. I think they're a hard barrel to beat for the money.

I don't wish to detract from the LW barrel question in this thread, but I thought that I would add that Kevin Rayhill at Stockade Gunstocks offered to do a Aluminum Sleeved barrel for a match rifle for me using a Benchmark barrel as the liner insert. You might contact him on pricing and see if this is a product that Benchmark makes or if it's a proprietary item from Stockade. The Benchmark barrels are also outstanding value for quality/accuracy.

Hope this helped.

 

[SurgeonPredator]

Re: Lothar Walther UL or Carbon Fibre? Opinions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigBlue&Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Care to share who those smiths are? I'm sure I'm not the only one who is curious. </div></div>

Read it on this thread, so I don't know the names, only that there seems to be an "aversion" to LW50 steel.

LINK (5th post)

 

[nfoley]

Re: Lothar Walther UL or Carbon Fibre? Opinions?

I did not get the names of the smiths from L-W but will call them back to get them.

 

[nfoley]

Re: Lothar Walther UL or Carbon Fibre? Opinions?

I called them back and they gave me two names -
1. Jim Brockman in Idaho
2. Doug Humbarger in Louisiana
I asked if you needed to use one of their recommended gunsmiths for warranty reasons, and he actually said they wouldn't sell me an ultralight barrel UNLESS I used one of their gunsmiths.

 

[nfoley]

Re: Lothar Walther UL or Carbon Fibre? Opinions?

Okay, quick update. I have been really interested in these UL Walther barrels. But I have been unable to reach one of the recommended smiths from Walther, and the other (that Walther recommended) had never heard of an aluminum sleeved Walther barrel!!
Not sure I am gonna risk the money on a project just yet....

 

[007notgnimer]

Re: Lothar Walther UL or Carbon Fibre? Opinions?

What is the quality of Lothar Walther barrels, in general?