LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

VKC

VKC

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 29, 2010
2,326
6
Battle Born, U.S.A.
#1
I have a 5.56 LWRC M6A2 and absolutely love it. I'm looking into getting a semi-auto piston 7.62 20" barrel rifle. Trying to decide between the following:

- LWRC REPR 20" heavy barrel http://www.lwrci.com/p-120-repr.aspx
- POF P308 20-MMR SPR http://www.pof-usa.com/p308/p308.htm

Question is which would you choose and why? Is the extra cost of LWRC really "worth it"? Any other suggestions for similar rifles? Thanks.
 
#2
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

Go with the POF they have great CS, very reliable. I have shot the 20" and 16" 308's they offer they both run great. Not to mention I belive Frank over at POF designed the system that everyone else is designing theirs off of.

I have the 18" SPR in .223 and it runs great as well.
 
#5
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

I have a POF 16" and love it. I run mine with a AAC 762SD suppressor. Very accurate, Only issues I have had is with mags. Dpms mags seem to be a hit or miss issue. I haven't tried the new Pmag 308 mags yet. I can't compare with the LWRC, but it runs circles around my Armalite ar-10.
 
#6
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

I have been running a POF P-308 20" for over a year now and I am extremely pleased with mine. It has been flawless since day one aside from some magazine-related issues (out-of-spec DPMS mags). I have run some C-Prod mags, but I ended up switching to the LR-20 PMAGs when they became available and I have never looked back. The only other thing I have done with the rifle is installation of a roller cam pin in place of the standard cam pin (mine is old enough that it didn't come with one from the factory). I have also swicthed the collapsible VLTOR EMOD to a Magpul PRS.

With match ammo and my reloads, the rifle is easily sub-MOA. I consistently get 3/4MOA and I am working on loads seeing if I can get it down lower than that. I have shot a limited amount of 147gr ball, and 99% of the ammo I have run has been 168gr and 175gr FGMM and BH and my reloads. I have also played around with some 155gr Scenars which may end up being my go-to load for this rifle because of the increased MV and excellent accuracy I have gotten so far (and it should also work well in my 16" 308 rifles).

I can't offer any insight on the LWRC as I have not had the chance to really put one through its paces. I am sure you'll get some experienced opinions on that platform here. I can however recommend the POF without hesitation. Mine has just been everything I could have hoped for out of the box!
 
#7
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

The LWRC rail is longer and smaller in diameter, it has a side-charging handle, the piston system is dead simple, the BCG is Fail Zero coated, the barrel is NiCorr'd, it looks normal (IMO), and their CS is excellent.

A REPR is worth the coin when you see one in person. The small details add up quickly.
 
#8
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

On the 14th of last month I was at my home with two buddies that were helping me complete a project in my home before deployment, crown moulding in the living room, as I was cutting and prepping the moulding my buddies were on my computer "Checking Email". Needless to say when the day was done and they were giggling like school kids, my social network page had been changed to some ridiculous items and I was locked out of the hide. I later found out what they had written and I contacted a third party to have an admin contact me so the posts could be deleted. No one responded and I would like to have those posts deleted now. Do you know how I can delete these posts or would it better be left alone now.

 
#9
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: krm375</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im not a big fan of Pakistan Ordnance Factory POF that's right PAKISTAN

Google this. pakistan ordnance factory usa

</div></div>

TRY PATRIOT...NOT PAKISTAN!!!!!
crazy.gif
 
#10
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO



On the 14th of last month I was at my home with two buddies that were helping me complete a project in my home before deployment, crown moulding in the living room, as I was cutting and prepping the moulding my buddies were on my computer "Checking Email". Needless to say when the day was done and they were giggling like school kids, my social network page had been changed to some ridiculous items and I was locked out of the hide. I later found out what they had written and I contacted a third party to have an admin contact me so the posts could be deleted. No one responded and I would like to have those posts deleted now. Do you know how I can delete these posts or would it better be left alone now.
 
#11
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

Dude...your search-fu is WEAK. If you are typing the search you proclaim yields PATRIOT as a part of PAKISTAN Ord Fact, you are missing a key point. Yes, PATRIOT will come up when you run that search but you'll notice that the word "PATRIOT" is NOT in bold. Google brought up the site that most closely matched your search phrase.

PATRIOT ORDNANCE FACTORY and the other company from Pakistan are NOT the same company. Read the information below. POF (the one I am talking about and not the folks from Asia) is a wholly owned and operated AMERICAN COMPANY!!

http://www.pof-usa.com/about/about.htm

I have personally met several folks from POF over the years at SHOT and I have talked to Frank (the owner) on a couple of occassions. None of them are Pakistani to the best of my recollection, nor are they owned, operated, controlled, etc. by anyone in Pakistan, nor do their company's profits go to support "activities" in Pakistan or the "activities" that some "persons" in Pakistan may be involved in!!!!
 
#12
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

POF!!!

100% american owned.

I have been to the shop multiple times and now them all very well!!

They are great weapons and great people deal with confidence!!
 
#13
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

On the 14th of last month I was at my home with two buddies that were helping me complete a project in my home before deployment, crown moulding in the living room, as I was cutting and prepping the moulding my buddies were on my computer "Checking Email". Needless to say when the day was done and they were giggling like school kids, my social network page had been changed to some ridiculous items and I was locked out of the hide. I later found out what they had written and I contacted a third party to have an admin contact me so the posts could be deleted. No one responded and I would like to have those posts deleted now. Do you know how I can delete these posts or would it better be left alone now.
 
#14
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

Are you really that hard headed as you are letting on to be? I personally know the gentleman who owns POF and he is the proudest American you will meet. Not sure what Google is telling you but POF is 100% US owned and operated. Nothing to do with Pakistan.

From their site http://www.pof-usa.com/about/about.htm And read the bold part before saying they took the design from HK:

Welcome to POF-USA Patriot Ordnance Factory, Inc. featuring our P-415/P-416 Gas Piston Rifle Systems and Accessories. This site is dedicated to America's Law Enforcement and Military Personnel who are preserving freedom around the world.

Patriot Ordnance Factory, Inc. is an American owned and operated small business. Our Manufacturing and R&D facilities are headquartered in Arizona. We specialize in the design, manufacture and marketing of AR style rifles, uppers, lowers and miscellaneous gun accessories.

We are dedicated to providing the highest quality parts and accessories for law enforcement, military and civilian sales at the lowest costs available. Service and Support is our number one priority and concern.

Whether you are a Soldier, Federal Agent, Police Officer, Contractor, or an American Citizen we guarantee RELENTLESS RELIABILITY.

P.O.F-USA, INC. has engineered, manufactured and tested this system. We are extremely proud of the durability and performance of the P-415 / P-416 Gas-Piston uppers. We have eliminated features of the Gas Operating System such as gas-rings, gas tube, gas key. The P-415 / P-416 Gas-Piston system also eliminates Heat, Carbon build up and Gas Leaks which can have an adverse effect on the operating system. The biggest issue being "HEAT". A weapons first priority, must be "RELIABILITY".

We first displayed our gas piston uppers at the 2004 Shot Show. We have engineered the entire system using standard "AR15/M16" style parts such as the flat top receiver and bolt. We add only three additional parts to operate our gas piston uppers (Gas plug, Gas piston, and push rod). All uppers come standard with C.R.O.S ™ (Corrosion Resistant Operating System).

Frank DeSomma is the President and C.E.O. of POF-USA, Inc. Frank has 28 years experience in an industry most recognized for precision, quality, and reliability, the Aerospace Industry. His success in the manufacturing business is based upon his skill and experience in troubleshooting faulty equipment and design engineering. As a sport shooter and lifelong student of quality and precision, Frank decided to embark on a voyage to improve the traditional gas impingement design for the AR-style rifle. In just four short years, Frank has been able to inject his dedication for perfection into the main stream firearms industry.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Frank developed a working prototype from his garage in 2002, demonstrated his rifle at the 2004 Shot Show and sold his first rifle commercially in 2004.

POF-USA, Inc. currently has 5 patents on our design and several others pending, all of which directly address the issues with the current AR gas impingement design.</span>

 
#15
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

On the 14th of last month I was at my home with two buddies that were helping me complete a project in my home before deployment, crown moulding in the living room, as I was cutting and prepping the moulding my buddies were on my computer "Checking Email". Needless to say when the day was done and they were giggling like school kids, my social network page had been changed to some ridiculous items and I was locked out of the hide. I later found out what they had written and I contacted a third party to have an admin contact me so the posts could be deleted. No one responded and I would like to have those posts deleted now. Do you know how I can delete these posts or would it better be left alone now.
 
#16
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: krm375</div><div class="ubbcode-body">like I said the technology came from POF Pakistan, in an agreement with Turkey and Pakistan.
I don't disagree with you that the company is US. owned, operated and produced, but in international business unless he got a deal with HK to make those guns, the technology came from the Turkey Pakistan deal to make POF 416. And that technology cost money and that money went to POF Pakistan.
If you like the guns great, but I will stick to Companies over here.
</div></div>

You sir are retarded.
 
#17
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: krm375</div><div class="ubbcode-body">like I said the technology came from POF Pakistan, in an agreement with Turkey and Pakistan.
I don't disagree with you that the company is US. owned, operated and produced, but in international business unless he got a deal with HK to make those guns, the technology came from the Turkey Pakistan deal to make POF 416. And that technology cost money and that money went to POF Pakistan.
If you like the guns great, but I will stick to Companies over here.
</div></div>

You have no idea what you are talking about. But I guess that is the internet. Anyone can come on and spew whatever BS they want to believe even though it's not true at all. Although this is our private site and if you continue to cause problems you might find yourself on the outside looking in.
 
#18
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

On the 14th of last month I was at my home with two buddies that were helping me complete a project in my home before deployment, crown moulding in the living room, as I was cutting and prepping the moulding my buddies were on my computer "Checking Email". Needless to say when the day was done and they were giggling like school kids, my social network page had been changed to some ridiculous items and I was locked out of the hide. I later found out what they had written and I contacted a third party to have an admin contact me so the posts could be deleted. No one responded and I would like to have those posts deleted now. Do you know how I can delete these posts or would it better be left alone now.
 
#21
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

POF is Patriot Ordnance Factory and an American company. Please don't get distracted with krm375's comments. Thanks for the advise so far.

FYI, I've handled both before at the store, but have not have an opportunity to shoot them. Again, I have a LWRC 5.56 M6A2 so I'm familiar with LWRC piston system and setup. Does anyone here having experience with both?
 
#22
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: krm375</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Where did they get the technology to mimic the HK 416?
</div></div>
I googled POF and all I got was some dating site talking about fish.

But seriously a better question is where did HK get the technology for the HK416?....

 
#24
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

hey "ORD" can you please post some pics of your 20" POF, this is gonna be my next rifle and would love to see it with the PRS stock on it, thanks
 
#25
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dk05r1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hey "ORD" can you please post some pics of your 20" POF, this is gonna be my next rifle and would love to see it with the PRS stock on it, thanks </div></div>

Sure...I will try this evening when I get home from work.

If you need a "hold-over" pic or two for now...see here for some photos from POF:

http://www.pof-usa.com/gallery/johnkaiserA.jpg

http://www.pof-usa.com/gallery/johnkaiser308B1.jpg

http://www.pof-usa.com/photos/DSCF0703.jpg

http://www.pof-usa.com/photos/DSCF0717.jpg
 
#26
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: krm375</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im not a big fan of Pakistan Ordnance Factory POF that's right PAKISTAN

Google this. pakistan ordnance factory usa

</div></div>

Didn't you know? If you Googled "truthers", you will learn that our own govt was behind 9/11.
crazy.gif
 
#27
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

LMAO at Pakistan Ord. Factory.

Go for the POF. Lighter, and more accurate.

I have a 16" .223 and a 20" .308, both suppressed. Both shoot sub .75" at 100 for 5 shots. Great rifles.

BTW, a Nightforce 2.5-10x32 in .885 rings works great on the POF rail.

-dan
 
#29
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vkc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ORD & Deersniper, I noticed that POF barrel is really flutted and looks thin. Do you think accuracy drops with heat?</div></div>

No it does not.
 
#30
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

I own a m6a2 and repr. quality weapons to say the least. pof is another fine weapon... I can't see where you could go wrong with one or the other. work hard play hard.....spend your cash on a product that fits your needs and overall objective.
 
#31
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vkc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ORD & Deersniper, I noticed that POF barrel is really flutted and looks thin. Do you think accuracy drops with heat?</div></div>

No it does not. </div></div>

Like LL said...it does not effect accuracy whatsoever. Mine remains sub-MOA after sustained fire. The Rock 5R barrels that POF uses are first rate all the way...no worries.

dk...I am working on some pics of my setup, but the wife has the camera with her for the weekend on a "girls trip" so I won't be able to get them taken and posted until first of the week (or late Sunday eve).
 
#32
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

Won't say anything bad about POF, I've never owned one.

I have been running LWRC in 5.56 for 3-4 years. The quality keeps paying me back month after month, year after year. My REPR will be here next week and I'll let you know.
 
#33
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: koz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
But seriously a better question is where did HK get the technology for the HK416?....
</div></div>

That my friends is the crux of the question, especially in light of the krm375's Paki Ord references being made regarding Frank D's integrity.

On to the original post's question-
There are no springs on the POF rifles that need to be changed every 1000 rounds per the manufacturer.
That cannot be said for LWRC's piston systems......
 
#34
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

Let me start out by saying that i love POF. I used to own a 415 and loved it. However, anyone that things POF-USA "HAD" no relations with Pakistan is simply avoiding the truth. I have no doubt that today POF-USA is a 100% American owned company and all parts are currently made right here. This is a direct quote from their old "contact" we page:

<span style="font-style: italic">P.O.F.-USA, INC. has engineered, manufactured and tested this system. We are extremely proud of the durability and performance of the P-415 / P-416 Gas-Piston uppers. We have eliminated features of the Gas Operating System such as gas-rings, gas tube, gas key. The P-415 / P-416 Gas-Piston system also eliminates Heat, Carbon build up and Gas Leaks which can have an adverse effect on the operating system. The biggest issue being "HEAT". A weapons first priority, must be "RELIABILITY".
We first displayed our gas piston uppers at the 2004 Shot Show. We have engineered the entire system using standard "AR15/M16" style parts such as the flat top receiver and bolt. We add only three additional parts to operate our gas piston uppers (Gas plug, Gas piston, and push rod). All uppers come standard with C.R.O.S.™ (Corrosion Resistant Operating System).
G3 / HK-91 PARTS
All items are new, made on HK licensed tooling from Pakistan Ordnance Factories and J.L.D. Enterprises, Inc.
MP-5 / HK-94 PARTS
All items are new, made on HK licensed tooling from Pakistan Ordnance Factories.</span>


They got their start with Pakistan and made all of their HK91, MP5 parts on HK licensed tooling from Pakistan. This is another reason they continued they 415 and 416 designations. There is no way that Frank would deny any of the above since what i posted above is from their own web page. They even used to have a separate page that listed all the HK parts they sell and they have also removed that page as well.


Here is also another review/artivel from Arizona Response Systems where they review the POF-USA HK parts and compare it to the German/Pakistani stuff and discuss the relationship:


Arizona Response Systems
 
#35
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

Glad to hear about good accuracy with POF even after extended fire. I'm leaning towards getting POF instead of LWRC because of lighter weigth and lower price. Does anyone know if LWRC M6A2 5.56 has any interchangable parts with REPR? Thinking about advantages and disadvantage of sticking with LWRC system vs. adding POF.
 
#36
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

99% sure that no parts are interchangeable btwn repr and m6a2.

I've owned both (p-308 and repr) and neither is perfect. I couldn't get repr to feed consistently. They sent me a new upper and I sold it before firing it with full disclosure. Have they fixed the feeding issues?

My p-308 has proven to be very accurate until the rail system works itself loose- which happens every 100 or so rounds. I haven't yet loctited it, so we shall see. In my opinion, the scope should be mounted directly to the upper, not to something that is then mounted to the upper. Also, their rail system places optics too high. You almost have to use a PRS stock to get a good cheek weld. I will say that I have not had a single misfeed when using the pmags, and as long as the rail is screwed on tight, it shoots sub MOA when I am pointing it well.
 
#37
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

for a similar price to the pof, you could buy all the parts and have a custom 308 semi built up. Then you can spec it just like you want it. APA will do it for a reasonable number and I don't think that they have the wait like gap.
Plus then you get the enjoyment of a dozen or more purchases instead of just one.
 
#38
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: krm375</div><div class="ubbcode-body">like I said the technology came from POF Pakistan, in an agreement with Turkey and Pakistan.
I don't disagree with you that the company is US. owned, operated and produced, but in international business unless he got a deal with HK to make those guns, the technology came from the Turkey Pakistan deal to make POF 416. And that technology cost money and that money went to POF Pakistan.
If you like the guns great, but I will stick to Companies over here.
</div></div>
then you will continue to own "sub par" firearms...

bench
 
#39
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

Alpha6164;
That is a well written and thought provoking post. The previous poster claiming a Pakastani connection was quickly dismissed, probably because of the tenor of his argument. I doubt your information will be so contemptuously dismissed, we shall see.

I don't have any first hand knowledge of the POF rifle, but from what I have seen on their site and read here it must be a quality product. I can't see that intellectual property and tooling from Germany via Pakistan is a deal breaker. Hell, I rather like my AK and we know what kind of bastards designed and built those.
 
#40
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

^^^Thanks for the compliments. I don't know the other poster but didn't like the Idea of everybody jumping down his throat without having accurate info. Once again I love POF and it doesn't bother me that they got their start with Pakistan Ordnance but the bottom line is that u can't deny facts. I posted my last thread hours ago and suddenly the thread is dead silent.
 
#41
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ORD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vkc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ORD & Deersniper, I noticed that POF barrel is really flutted and looks thin. Do you think accuracy drops with heat?</div></div>

No it does not. </div></div>

Like LL said...it does not effect accuracy whatsoever. Mine remains sub-MOA after sustained fire. The Rock 5R barrels that POF uses are first rate all the way...no worries.

dk...I am working on some pics of my setup, but the wife has the camera with her for the weekend on a "girls trip" so I won't be able to get them taken and posted until first of the week (or late Sunday eve). </div></div>

I shot mine today in mild 95 degree weather (mild for Phoenix) and had no heat issues.
 
#42
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

this kind of reminds me of a story way back about an elephant that starts growing in a family's living room while the family simply ignores it. eventually the elephant grew so big that the house broke and the family became homeless.
now that the facts are actually stated, it seems everyone's ignoring the fact. i feel this should be a lesson learned by everyone that you cannot merely state the "facts" and maniacally attack another person just because you only know part of it.
alpha6164, you really dropped the atomic bomb on this one
wink.gif
 
#43
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zinny</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
now that the facts are actually stated, it seems everyone's ignoring the fact. i feel this should be a lesson learned by everyone that you cannot merely state the "facts" and maniacally attack another person just because you only know part of it.
alpha6164, you really dropped the atomic bomb on this one
wink.gif
</div></div>



I have nothing against anyone in this thread. My surprise was that the attack was by veteran members on this forum on a subject they were not 100% informed on. It is irrelevant to me, but none of them have come to apologize or retract their statements towards the initial poster that pointed out the relationship between POF-USA and POF (Pakistan). It like crickets chirping here
smile.gif
 
#44
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zinny</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
now that the facts are actually stated, it seems everyone's ignoring the fact. i feel this should be a lesson learned by everyone that you cannot merely state the "facts" and maniacally attack another person just because you only know part of it.
alpha6164, you really dropped the atomic bomb on this one
wink.gif
</div></div>



I have nothing against anyone in this thread. My surprise was that the attack was by veteran members on this forum on a subject they were not 100% informed on. It is irrelevant to me, but none of them have come to apologize or retract their statements towards the initial poster that pointed out the relationship between POF-USA and POF (Pakistan). It like crickets chirping here
smile.gif
</div></div>

The initial poster was implying POF is not an American owned and operated company. Which it is.
How the company started is irrelevant or who. It's an American owned and operated company.
Should we avoid AK's? Boycott H&K?
<span style="font-style: italic"> H&K has been accused of shipping small arms to conflict regions such as Bosnia[16] and Nepal,[17] and has licensed its weapons for production by regimes with poor human rights records such as Thailand and Burma (Myanmar).[18] It has been argued that the company effectively evaded EU export restrictions when these licensees sold H&K weapons to conflict zones including Indonesia,[19] Sri Lanka[20] and Sierra Leone.[17] British comedian Mark Thomas demonstrated the ease with which legal loopholes allow the evasion of arms embargoes by arranging a shipment of H&K submachine guns made under license in Pakistan to Mugabe’s regime in Zimbabwe</span>
 
#45
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

POF USA rifles are made in the US. I have been to the shop a couple of times and watched all the machining being done. The Pakistan company does not or has ever owned and part of POF USA. They are no part of POF USA. Don't know how much more plain you need it.

I actually just got off the phone with Frank the owner of POF. He said to check the incorporation documents for his company if you believe otherwise. He said they used to sell HK parts made by Pakistan Ordnance Factory for about 1-2 years but they were never used in any POF USA rifle as they were HK parts. POF rifles don't use any HK parts. He stopped selling the parts a while back. That's it. The only connection between the two companies. Pakistan never owned POF USA or had any part in their business other than supplying parts for sale through POF USA. Those are facts.

So Alpha if you are waiting for an apology from me for anyone here you will be waiting a long time because all that is posted above is fact no matter how you want to twist it.

 
#46
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottyman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The initial poster was implying POF is not an American owned and operated company. Which it is.
How the company started is irrelevant or who. It's an American owned and operated company.
Should we avoid AK's? Boycott H&K?
</div></div>


I disagree. The members jumped on him to the point that Patriot Ordnance Factory has had no relations to Pakistan Ordnance Factory now or present. This is what the OP said:

<span style="text-decoration: underline">like I said the technology came from POF Pakistan, in an agreement with Turkey and Pakistan.
I don't disagree with you that the company is US. owned, operated and produced, but in international business unless he got a deal with HK to make those guns, the technology came from the Turkey Pakistan deal to make POF 416. </span>


Once again, i dont care where POF got their technology either. And as i had mentioned before i love POF and plan to get their 308. But facts are facts. They did get their start with Pakistan Ordnance Factory and later changed their name to be more US friendly.

I guarantee you Frank himself would not come here and publicly deny that claim. It doesnt take anything away from them, but just saying.
 
#47
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

No technology from Frank's POF rifles came from Pakistan. You can say it all you want but it's not true. You don't know what you are talking about.
 
#48
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">POF USA rifles are made in the US. I have been to the shop a couple of times and watched all the machining being done. The Pakistan company does not or has ever owned and part of POF USA. They are no part of POF USA. Don't know how much more plain you need it.

I actually just got off the phone with Frank the owner of POF. He said to check the incorporation documents for his company if you believe otherwise. He said they used to sell HK parts made by Pakistan Ordnance Factory for about 1-2 years but they were never used in any POF USA rifle as they were HK parts. POF rifles don't use any HK parts. He stopped selling the parts a while back. That's it. The only connection between the two companies. Pakistan never owned POF USA or had any part in their business other than supplying parts for sale through POF USA. Those are facts.

So Alpha if you are waiting for an apology from me for anyone here you will be waiting a long time because all that is posted above is fact no matter how you want to twist it.

</div></div>


Rob, i dont disagree with you on most of your points. I have never said they were ever owned by Pakistan Ordnance Factory or if the guns were not made here. Once again i like POF. But when the original poster just mentioned "Pakistan" all of you jumped on him like he just yelled "fire" in a movie theater or something.

Your posts and others came across that there are no relationships in the past between the two companies.

Answer this question for me and i will be satisfied. Can you name two companies in the world that have the exact same acronyms, that are in the same line of business and also worked together at some point no matter how small or big? Does not exist.

So do you think that it is a mere coincidence that POF-USA has the same acronym of Pakistan Ordnance Factory. They both make guns and POF-USA "used to sell their parts." How does that happen?



Here is a picture of my POF416. It is amazing that the pictogram is a copy of the HK design. Do you think that POF magically came up with the piston design?




P1000716.jpg
 
#49
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

Actually yes it is a coincidence. Check the documents if you don't trust Frank. Frank said he used POF so Patriot Ordnance Factory wouldn't have to be spelled out. The two companies never had any closer relationship than Frank selling HK parts made by them. That's it. Period. Pakistan HK parts were never used in any POF rifle. You just got it from Frank's mouth through my phone.

And it wasn't the OP that brought it up but another poster who was in causing problems.
 
#50
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO

i agree wholeheartedly with alpha, the fact of the matter is you gentlemen read something that hit a little too close to home and maliciously attacked the messenger. as with alpha, i have no quarrel with POF-USA, i just disagree with your conduct.
 
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