M40 Build Guide

[xarmor]

Re: M40 Build Guide

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMC Grunt</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ncoutdoorsman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I notice its not clip slotted though. Interesting. </div></div>

Damn, I didnt even notice that either but it sure isnt. </div></div>

Which rifle is not clipslotted? I couldn't tell on the pics from MJH.

 

[grunt0311]

Re: M40 Build Guide

The clipslot can be seen by the curve in the receiver on the left side. Also with the clipslot it is cut on top of the receiver for the scope mount that is lugged to fit into the receiver.

 

[grunt0311]

Re: M40 Build Guide

I think that this picture here looks like it is not clipslotted. I could be wrong though.

 

[xarmor]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Here are a few more pics I found of an M40 in the Springfield Museum. I think these pics may demonstrate that many museums only have representations of many relics, It looks as though this one is missing the U.S. rollstamp and the barrel may have the Remington NY markings. Hard to say for sure. May need to photoshop and zoom in a bit.

 

[xarmor]

Re: M40 Build Guide

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMC Grunt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The clipslot can be seen by the curve in the receiver on the left side. Also with the clipslot it is cut on top of the receiver for the scope mount that is lugged to fit into the receiver. </div></div>

I never before noticed the curve on the receiver but it sure looks like it is shaped different when it is clipslotted. I believe you are absolutely right. I added a picture of an M40a1 build that I had that was not clipslotted and there is a major difference. Can anybody verify this for sure? Maybe I am the only one that never noticed this before, damn I learn something new everyday. Thanks USMC Grunt!!! BTW that picture in your post is badass.

<span style="font-size: 17pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">Non clip slotted 6 didgit receiver</span></span>

<span style="font-size: 17pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">Clip slotted 6 digit receiver</span></span>

 

[engineman]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Thank you again for a great piece of information.

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Have never found anything in writing to confirm a "reason" for clipslotting the M40 receivers but every pic I have seen shows them as being machined so. The Redfield 40X marked base sure didn't need/utilize this feature. Not until the the M40 receivers were rebuilt to M40A1 specs was a base made specifically to add strength to the mount via the clip slot machining??? Would be interesting to know why they were machined for it unless there was consideration at some point for aperature sight use?

XARMOR's pic of the one at the Springfield Muesuem doesn't have a 40X marked base but a much later(mid to late 70's or even early 80's) Redfield 700SA base. My guess it is more for show/history then authenticity to the last screw?

 

[mjh30]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Gentleman you are absolutely right the rifle does not appear to be clip slotted.

 

[RTH1800]

Re: M40 Build Guide

From what I can tell and read, the reason for clip slotting originaly was " because we have always done it that way". If the rifles were to be used for matches with iron sights, converted to battle rifles etc. All rather unlikely, but remember the guys at the top could well have come into service in the 1930's and were not about to give up their clip slots. And who would oppose them, as the cost would have been virtually nil? They were later put to good use, as we have all seen.

 

[ncoutdoorsman]

Re: M40 Build Guide

More about the clip slot.

The curve you see, is often referred to as a "thumb scallop".

When the scope and base are not in place, that curve is where your thumb lands after charging the rounds into the magazine. It is how you can quickly identify a clip-slotted receiver when there is a mount in place.

On a side note, the M40A1 and M40A3 use bases with a lug that mates with the slotted receiver. The original M40 just had its clip slot covered up by the Redfield base.

To my knowledge the M40 clip slots were never utilized. And were only cut at the factory for easier loading via a stripper clip in the event that the shooter had to switch to his back up iron sights if the scope has a major failure.

Often the Redfield scopes would fail. 1st gens could easily crack and bend under pressure, take on water, even the sun can melt the "tombstone" rangefinder right off if the rifle is held at the wrong angle on a sunny day.

I gather that the marines had the ability to remove the redfield scope and 40x base after optics failure and quickly add on iron sights using the two rear left side screw holes, thus making the clip-slot a useful feature and putting the rifle back into service. This is only speculation as I have had hard time finding mention of this "backup plan" in Siench's book.

 

[RTH1800]

Re: M40 Build Guide

No front sight, or holes for one.

 

[ncoutdoorsman]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Good point. Like I said, speculation

Whatever their reason for adding a clip slot, it wasn't used.

 

[grunt0311]

Re: M40 Build Guide

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XARMOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The clipslot can be seen by the curve in the receiver on the left side. Also with the clipslot it is cut on top of the receiver for the scope mount that is lugged to fit into the receiver. </div></div>
BTW that picture in your post is badass.


Here is another pic of it full size.

 

[mjh30]

Re: M40 Build Guide

The clip slot is I believe as said before, a carry over from years previously. The Corp has a strong history of rifle shooting, many of the Winchester rifles used in Vietnam were rifles used in competition. The 1903 rifles used in competition were clip slotted and every rifle used in competition by the corp since is clip-slotted, and since it was necessary for competition I suppose thats the primary reason.

 

[RTH1800]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Have we decided if the brass pin is in the known original's. I can see the one on some of the photos, but what is a true original like?
RTH

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: M40 Build Guide

In Senich's book 'The Long-Range War, Sniping in Vietnam' you can see the pin in all but 1 of the 4 pics of the M40 stock. Remington has used it on all of their 700 wood stocks so see no reason they wouldn't have added that same to the M40? Not alot of wood remaining between trigger inlet and mag box inlet so the brass pin is a cheap way to insure stock integrity.

 

[RTH1800]

Re: M40 Build Guide

SD, Thank you. I just do not notice them that much. Hard to see, I guess. And most photos show the bolt side.

About the Badger mounts, they come in today. They look right for the old actions. I will put on tonight. On the box it is marked Numeric S/N only. I guess this means pre prefix. Martin said that he had 4 others with rings last week. It was a special run, so might not happen again.

 

[xarmor]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1


The stock below is an original M40 stock, it has the pin.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XARMOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[
Stock (back)

</div></div>

 

[RTH1800]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

The Badger mount fit the 221xxx receiver fine. I think there are 4 left, good luck. They come with correct rings, but not slot head screws. I have a pair of extra rings, if anyone needs them.
RTH

 

[Pvt.Joker]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Badger mount fit the 221xxx receiver fine. I think there are 4 left, good luck. They come with correct rings, but not slot head screws. I have a pair of extra rings, if anyone needs them.
RTH </div></div>

That's good to know about them fitting, as I ordered one of the sets and have it on the way. I got a set of the original dated rings and a later style base a while back, but since I found a 6-digit receiver (256xxx) to build this off of, I decided that I better get the base that goes with it and ordered one of these. I also finally found an original split sear trigger with the tombstone safety for it and got a set of the Wicita swivels, so now I'm getting to the point of needing to do the clip slot milling work (once I get the old barrel off) and then ordering a barrel.

This has certainly turned into a much more detailed replica than I had started it out to be, and will wind up costing a lot more than just buying one of the Vietnam M40 commemeratives from Remington would have. But at least when it gets finished, it *should* be about as close to an original as I can build it, for not being an original. And there is a certain pride to that, plus the enjoyment of learning as much about the originals in the process.

That said; I AM looking forward to actually getting to SHOOT the rifle, too...

 

[xarmor]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

Just an FYI, was watching an old HBO movie called "Dear America, Letter Home From Vietnam" and there is some pretty good footage of a sniper with an M40 (only a few seconds of film but very clear). Its around minute 13.

 

[ncoutdoorsman]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

RTH, can you post a picture? Id just like to see it.

 

[RTH1800]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

Not photo skilled. What is it you are doubting about it?

 

[ncoutdoorsman]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

No doubts here. Just like to see the Badger base on an old 6 digit.

 

[Pvt.Joker]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

Mine came in today, so here's a few photos of it on the 6-digit receiver that the replica will be built on. (It's currently a .223 but you can see the other half of the project; a .308 ADL that has been modified, in the last picture)

Here's the other part of the project...

The Badger base is on the .223 6-digit rifle but the scope has the original set of dated rings on it. They fit just fine, and the Badger rings work great with the other late-model base on the later-model (1977 A code) rifle.

I also got in my old style split sear trigger with the tombstone safety and it works well with the .308 bolt out of the other rifle too, and hopefully will do the same after I install the short shroud on it. Now to get the receiver clip slotting milled, get a barrel and do the markings, refinish it all correctly, and open up the stock channel and round off the end of the stock...

 

[ncoutdoorsman]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

Thanks Joker! Great pics.

 

[rweldon]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

Where can one find the web sling? Is it the same as a M14 web sling?

 

[xarmor]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M40A1peacemaker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where can one find the web sling? Is it the same as a M14 web sling? </div></div>

The M14 sling is a nylon type material and is thinner. These web slings are more like the WW2 M1 slings (maybe the same). I will try and get some pics up a little later.

Interesting question came up today, maybe someone here can help. Has anyone ever seen any pictures or other documentation that shows an M40 stock painted OD or any other color? I have never seen it but it certainly seems plausible.

 

[Pvt.Joker]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

In one of Senich's books, it seems I recall a mention of Chuck MaWhinney stating that his M40 in use was painted OD green, in an attempt to help seal the grain of the stock (that and having the inner tube improvised into scope caps). I'll have to see if I can find the exact quote and provide a title and page number for reference, but yes in answer to your question.

Oh, and as for a source of the slings, I got mine from Bill Ricca so you might want to check with him to see if he has some more.

 

[ncoutdoorsman]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

For the sling, any green MRT sling will do.

Search M1 sling on gunbroker and you'll find several.

 

[Pvt.Joker]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

AHA! Found it! The question about the M700 being painted green was from Peter Senich's book "The One Round War" and is part of a photo caption on page 210.

"...According to Mawhinney, "The rifle stock was painted green when the weapon was issued." (Early efforts to waterproof sniper rifle stocks in Vietnam included "sealing measures" involving the use of paint. USMC ordnance papers indicate gray or green were "acceptable colors.")" -P. Senich

Hopefully that helps answer the question. Very good book for information and details about Vietnam era rifles and history, too.

 

[mjh30]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

I do wish some were color pictures though

 

[xarmor]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pvt.Joker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">AHA! Found it! The question about the M700 being painted green was from Peter Senich's book "The One Round War" and is part of a photo caption on page 210.

"...According to Mawhinney, "The rifle stock was painted green when the weapon was issued." (Early efforts to waterproof sniper rifle stocks in Vietnam included "sealing measures" involving the use of paint. USMC ordnance papers indicate gray or green were "acceptable colors.")" -P. Senich

Hopefully that helps answer the question. Very good book for information and details about Vietnam era rifles and history, too. </div></div>

Very cool, thanks Joker.

 

[mjh30]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

Swivels used on the M40, anyone hear had a chance to examine one, the rifle that is up close?

 

[Joel989]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

Most use Wichita, screw thread for both or screw thread for butt, machine thread with inset nut for front. Can’t get better than that. Gutowsky

 

[mjh30]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

Got to see a few pictures recently and they were definitely not Wichita, I think we are all positive Wichita was used on the M40A1, and in fact Wichita notes on their own website that it was 1970 when they received an order for the sling swivel. Anyone else confirm my sneaky suspicions, since the rifle came from Remington.
Marty

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

Marty
Who made the wood screw type sling swivels for the 40-X rimfires installed in the butts of the CMP guns? They look like Wichita's also but being late 50'x and early 60's that sure wouldn't fit with the 1970 date would it? I have never looked at one real close or bothered to compare them to an M40A1 era Wichita. Damn always shit coming up that mess's with an 'assumption' huh.LOL

 

[mjh30]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

Denis, yup I just assumed they were Wichita, but looking real hard at two different photos leads me to believe they are the same swivels used on the Remington 40X and that would be an in house Remington product I suppose.

An just the swivel the best picture I can take from the book

Marty

 

[grunt0311]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

Anybody know what kind of barrels that used when they rebarreled the M40?

 

[Pvt.Joker]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMC Grunt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anybody know what kind of barrels that used when they rebarreled the M40?
</div></div>

As I understand it, they used Gary Schneider's barrels when they first rebarreled the M40. But the original barrels were from Remington's custom shop and were a 24-inch varmint barrel with flat crown and no roll mark; only the stamps at the base of the barrel on each side on the "early" ones, and ".308 NATO" on the later ones (although I have yet to find a definitive answer on what date separates "early" from "late" on that change). Gary's contact info is:

Schneider Rifle Barrels
1403 Red Baron
Payson, AZ 85541
Phone: (928) 474-2852

I spoke to him a while back about my project. Real nice guy to talk to, and I am still considering getting one of his barrels for my project if I am unable to ever locate an original one...

 

[mjh30]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

I believe Gary provided barrels for the M40A1 after Atkinson Gun Co provided the originals. The Corp received an initial order of 550 M40 rifles with scope attached, and 150 without, I suppose you could surmise that these rifles were the early rifles, but its hard to say if they were all marked the same way, certainly most 300000 serial numbered rifles I have seen photos off, appeared to be marked 7.62 Nato. Breakdown of rifles procured by year, 1966-700, 67-62, 68-87, 69-137, 1970-8, 1971-1 for a total of 995. Douglas was a supplier of barrels to Remingtons custom shop, they patented the air-gaging which was huge boon for accuracyand Remington jumped on this.

 

[grunt0311]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

Did Douglas supply the barrels to Remington and then Rem put their stamp on the barrels? What was the size of the stamping on the ones that were rebarreled? So if I was to buy a Douglas barrel for an M40 that would be to spec as well?

 

[mjh30]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

Maybe Denis, SDwhirlwind can chime in, Denis knows a lot more than I do. For many years folks thought the Heart symbol on the barrel was a tribute to Hart barrels and Clyde Hart, but both Hart and Remington have stated this is incorrect. I have seen several internet postings in which Douglas was indeed a supplier of barrels to Remington, I suppose the barrel would be provided plain and Remington would add any necessary marking during manufacture.

 

[Pinmaster]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

The heart-shapped "gallery stamp" signified function and accuracy testing. (One Round War_page 167_ Peter R. Senich)

 

[grunt0311]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

Thanks for the info guys.

 

[ncoutdoorsman]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

Anyone else think this topic deserves a sticky?

 

[Joel989]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

A Sticky would be nice!

 

[Pvt.Joker]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

I'll "third" that!

 

[grunt0311]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

Yea I think so along if we can do a build thread for the M40a3 and the M40a5 as well.

 

[Joel989]

Re: M40 Build Guide - Not M40A1

Next will be the M24 thread. Where will it all end?

But, I'm still for the M40 thread!