MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

[Blackbrush]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

Simple solutions are possible. I use a standard bench rest when I'm developing loads. It positions the rifle very precisely for every shot. It should be very easy to fabricate a mount that attaches to the rest. You could likewise fab one to attach to a rail on the forearm of the weapon avoiding the effects of barrel mounting.

Next?

 

[mouse07410]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

Just realized: even if the group size changes, it's not a big deal. What matters is consistency: like, with this device attached <span style="font-weight: bold">all</span> the groups increase (or shrink) by X%, and the POI shifts by Z MOA to ... If that holds (all the groups are equally affected), the unit would be perfectly usable in the mode I described above - for/during the load development, etc. And out of hand, I can't see why this wouldn't be the case, especially if you are consistent (location and tightening strength) in attaching it to the barrel.

 

[GUNNER75]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

I will have feedback on Vias brake and Magneto Speed by the weekend.

 

[jasonk]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GUNNER75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will have feedback on Vias brake and Magneto Speed by the weekend. </div></div>

I can't imagine that's a good idea.

ETA...Maybe it will work http://www.magnetospeed.com/pages/rifles

 

[fastford]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

i ordered one to try too..

 

[Outsydlooknin75]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

Am I the only one that wants to do a bayonet charge with it ?

 

[Aries64]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seaaggie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been needing a chronograph, now you have about made up my mind...i was trying to find an ohler but that is just too hard to find </div></div>
I'm trying to stay on topic, but you do know that Oehler brought the Model 35P back two years ago, right? Brand new, complete 35P setups are available direct from <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Oehler's Online Store</span></span>.


Keith

 

[Lowlight]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

I got to shoot over the magneto today, with both a Surefire Brake (KMW) and Tac Ops Rifle with and without Suppressor.

It definitely causes a shift but not really any group size difference, but the groups did move for sure.

KMW 308 with SF Brake

Groups, Zero target, plus shift with Magneto installed

Set up,

Tac Ops

No Suppressor on the Tac Ops

Zero Target for the TacOps Rifle

Supressor with Magneto Shift - Adjustment made with shot group over chronograph. The one off to the right was me, I made an adjustment in my position. Needed 1.5 Mils to adjust to center of target.

The shift on the Tac Ops without the Can -- Less and up. Groups remained consistent in size.

Summary

The chronograph is easy to use and set up and doesn't appear to open the groups up much but definitely moves the groups around, and if you move the unit on the barrel it will move it. The muzzle brake was no issue at all, but the suppressor was. This unit would not work with the Tac Ops suppressor, however it is one of my thickest suppressors. So further testing will have to be done with some others that have a smaller diameter. But not matter what I got a zero reading. I even traded out the rubber pads, and then completely removed it, as well I shimmed the back and tried to angle it down a bit and nothing worked.

Output appeared to be about 50fps slower than previously recorded velocities for the KMW. But was pretty consistent, and recorded the details well. For the indoor range I think this set up is definitely on the money.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

Lowlight,

Thank you - your report says all I hoped to hear!

P.S. My MagnetoSpeed is about to arrive.

 

[gstaylorg]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

Very good review/testing with the brake and can. I'm glad to see the shift in POI wasn't just me or my setup. Thanks for taking the time to put that report together!

 

[Mister Ouchie]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

Looks like they could have easily made the mount so it could handle suppressors, but probably didn't so that it would be harder for people to mess up and shoot through the chrony.

 

[ranger1183]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

Looks like it does everything I need a chrony to do and makes setting up quick and easy. Going on my to get list.

 

[mattmcg]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

Very much looking forward to more data output testing from some of you that have taken delivery!

Folks that have an Oehler and can compare the output data on the same bullet fired (and compensate for the distance from muzzle between the two chronos) to determine how the two correlate would be the ticket.

If it outputs accurately and the mount holds together, this could be a real winner.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

The mount is solid there is nothing to break there, and the numbers look good,

I have an Oehler but it has been broke for a while and I am too lazy to send it in to get fixed, the switch block is fubar and the #3 switch just dangles and doesn't engage, so anything is possible.

My CED started giving me erratic numbers the last time out, but I know it has been consistent in the past, so there is no reason to suspect this unit is not outputting correctly. My conclusions were, the numbers appear to be solid, unfortunately I did not shoot them at distance to verify, but still the OP gstaylorg did and came up with solid numbers. So in effect, there is absolutely no reason to question this units output data.

The fact it was giving me data for every shot, means it is working as advertised and they appear to be in line with my numbers from the past. Being off a bit is highly subjective when you consider how few a shots I actually took. When you consider the accuracy I was getting with the unit on, the numbers make perfect sense. Both are short barreled rifle, both are shooting factory ammo, and still these numbers were in line with previous to a certain degree, the error could have been in my CED M2 unit. I have seen that unit error before.

 

[mattmcg]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

There is also a pretty good review of the device over at http://www.realguns.com/articles/391.htm .

One of our NCPPRC guys just took delivery. I may hit him up so that we can test it against the Oehler under a controlled setup.

 

[Sportin Wood]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

We got one in at the shop. Chris has been able to use it, but I have yet to strap it on

. He's in love with it and talking bout ordering more!!

 

[Erud]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

Great review gstaylorg and lots of other good info in this thread, much appreciated. I've got one question that I haven't seen addressed by anyone yet and can't find on Magnetospeed's website.

Is the data that is saved on the SD card for storage on the unit only, or is it in a format that can be transferred to a computer?

Thanks for all the info,
Erik

 

[Speeddog]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mattmcg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very much looking forward to more data output testing from some of you that have taken delivery!

Folks that have an Oehler and can compare the output data on the same bullet fired (and compensate for the distance from muzzle between the two chronos) to determine how the two correlate would be the ticket.

If it outputs accurately and the mount holds together, this could be a real winner. </div></div>

Take a look at my earlier post. I did exactly what you asked last week. I did NOT run as elegant a trial as OP did but I did compare the readings from the Ohler/MagnetoSpeed on both a relatively short barreled .308 AR and a 24" bolt gun. I positioned the Ohler fairly close to the muzzle to remove the distance issue from the equation as much as possible. The numbers were right on: compensating for distance from the muzzle they were essentially identical.

I have not had a chance to do this with some other calibres (6.5 Grendel, etc.) but I will in the next few wks. I don't see why there would be any discrepancy with them however.

Hope this helps

 

[gstaylorg]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

I'm not sure about the data transfer/storage. I just looked at the little manual/brochure I have at work and it doesn't say. However, I seem to recall seeing something about transfer to Excel or somthing similar in the info at home that came with it. I'll check it tonight and let you know if someone has already done it by then.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Update:</span> I checked and the manual does not say anything about data transfer. However, the following review posted at www.realguns.com (link on the MagnetoSpeed website) states,

"The small microSD card that fits into a slot at the top of the display, records and stores collected data. A miniSD card adapter is also packaged with the unit. Popping the card into a PC reader, a log.csv file opens into an Excel spread sheet in nicely formatted columns and rows for analysis and storage. The same information can be view on the units display, but if you're like me and have 10 MOA vision, big screen capability is a nice touch.

Once the data is imported into an Excel spread sheet, the columns and rows can be formatted to whatever appearance is appropriate and data can be manipulated and analyzed with progress tracked over an extended period of time."

http://www.realguns.com/articles/360.htm

Hope that addresses your question.

 

[secretsquirrel]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

Sold out, no stock for at least a few weeks, must be popular.

 

[gstaylorg]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

Good thing I purchased like 10,000 shares of their stock a couple weeks ago (LOL).

 

[FmrChief]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

Regarding the micro-SD card, you will always want to "archive series" to write the data to the card. Until that is done, the data is only in memory. Each archive evolution will increment the string number, so I use that function to switch strings. There is a menu option for removing the SD card with the unit on. I simply take it out when the unit is off.

Yesterday at the range, I didn't notice any appreciable degradation of grouping size. The attached pic contains a called 5th shot pull which opened the group (100 yards). Otherwise, it certainly looks like 41.2 gr of N135 with a 0.020 offset is the accuracy load for my new Rock Creek barrel (Win308 match chamber).

One thought though. I find it highly unlikely that something as light as the MagnetoSpeed is going to affect harmonics on my 22" M24/M40 contour barrel, but there might just be enough push of the muzzle blast to affect a long and lightweight tube.

Everyone keep posting your experiences and thoughts. This is becoming a great thread. I promise to follow up soon with results of the same accuracy load without the device attached.

 

[taseal]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

This is great!

now I'm curious after reading the whole thread just now

can we still do load development with thsi? (Particularly OCW)

it does bring the POI up an inch or so, but from everyone's pics it also looks like the groups stay consistent. so POI is changed, but not size of groups.

I would say this is gtg for load development.

when you are done, you can just do a final zero (hell, it only takes 2 bullets, 3 if you suck )

Looks like I know what to get with my toy money now!!!

edit: OH NOEZ! they're out of stock until june

 

[taseal]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Former Chief</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
One thought though. I find it highly unlikely that something as light as the MagnetoSpeed is going to affect harmonics on my 22" M24/M40 contour barrel, but there might just be enough push of the muzzle blast to affect a long and lightweight tube.
</div></div>

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not the weight of the thing hanging off the end of the barrel. it's more so the fact that it changes the harmonics. it disrupts the natural 'vibrations' of the barrel which are enough to make an inch or so change at 100 yards

it's like putting a piece of rubber on a tuning fork. you disrupt the vibrations and won't get the sound

am I right? I think this is why it's changing POI, but no grouping. that thing doesn't have enough weight to move a M24 barrel even .001 an inch down lol

 

[Ratbert]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

Tried mine out yesterday and am very pleased so far. Not a single missed read and setup/takedown is a LOT more convenient. I can even easily shoot from prone rather than having to setup off a bench as I normally do when using a chrono. This thing is going to be great for range days or intro-classes when we've got 25 guys lined up who've never chrono'd their rifle and want to try shooting at the 1000yd steel.

That said, I would have happily paid $50 more for some sort of adjustable mount that would have let me use my suppressor with it.

 

[gstaylorg]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

I believe the change in barrel harmonics should be dependent on both the total mass and its position relative to the barrel vibrational nodes. Harmonic barrel tuning devices have been around for a long time, and have been used particularly with rimfire shooters due to the difficulty of reloading as compared to centerfire ammunition. I think the question of whether the MagnetoSpeed significantly alters overall group size or relative vertical/horizontal dispersion has yet to be answered definitively. From what I've read on the topic, it may take quite a bit of effort to do so rigorously, particularly if the changes are small.

The other consideration is that any effect of this device on barrel harmonics will almost certainly change from rifle to rifle based on the barrel dimensions/properties, just as an optimized load for one rifle may not work well in another. On the other hand, if the changes are really small, do they really matter for load development? Probably not. I'll continue to play around with it and if I come up with anything of interest, I'll certainly post it. But at the end of the day, I'm pretty satisfied with the unit and I think it will be very useful at the range, regardless of whether it may have some effect on shot dispersion patterns.

 

[SPAK]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

Regarding usage with suppressors, the website also states it is possible to have a custom mounting solution made for the chronograph.

I've had the conversation with the company, but I don't have permission yet to post up what we have discussed. If you want to find out yourself, send them an email. Replies were fast and very courteous. Always a good thing in Customer service.

Once I hear back and I can post up our discussion I will. If not, you'll have to call them

 

[B.Bates]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

Trovan brought his out today

We shot probably 100 rounds from 5 guns using his magneto and my ohler at the same time

Ill post the numbers later but I was impressed

The magneto didn't miss a shot , i really liked the display and ease of use

They read within 8 to 12 fps of each other all day

I don't think for the money there is a better chrono available but hearing as they are sold out I guess everyone already knows that

 

[Lowlight]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

They would need a heat resistant strap because the suppressors get too hot for the current strap.

I took off the mounting pad and it was still too much, the Tac Ops suppressor was too high. (could be because I used my TAB Cover to protect the unit)

But getting it to work with a can would be a huge plus.

Now that we know it works, they need a model with an adjustable sensor ramp, that is hinged or something to be adjusted height wise.

 

[linedrive301ft]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

I shot with shootone and Trovan today and can ditto what shootone said. The ease of set-up and the consistancy of that unit was very impressive. I do not think you can go wrong with
a purchase when the chrono gives you results on every shot.

Something us shooters will gladly welcome.

Regards

Mark

 

[vicv]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

Looks very attractive, waiting for the next batch.
Have one question: Does it work with 338lm, has anybody tested it with 338lm?

Thanks a lot.

 

[SPAK]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

Ok Per my conversation with Garet Itz at the company.

It is possible to have a "custom" mount made to work with a suppressor. However, at the present time it would only work with rifle systems that either use that same size suppressor or have a barrel diameter similar to it. There is an extra cost to the custom mount if you have one made.

They are exploring the possibility of an adjustable mount
but there isn't anything solid right now..

I will be obtaining a "custom" mount to use with a suppressor and I'll report back after putting it through the paces.

 

[B.Bates]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

Here are my results from Saturday

243 Winchester
Lapua Brass 3rd firing
210M primers
H-4350 @ 42g
105 Hybrids 15 off the lands
26in Krieger 1-8 4 groove barrel

I shot through two different Chronographs simultainously to verify data

Chargemaster Thrown Loads

Oehler readings
3092
3082
3095
3089
3085
avg-3088 sd 5 es13

same order over Magneto Chronograph
3080
3069
3080
3078
3078
avg-3077 sd-4

Now for 42g weighed on a sartorius 503 scale

Oehler Readings
3092
didnt read
didnt read
error
3079
3081
avg-3084

same ammo over Magneto
3084
3084
3088
3086
3090
3080
avg 3085

 

[tigerfan_9]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

What would be cool to see is the results of an OCW test both with and without the chrono attached and compare the results.

its obvious that this chrono is eliminating the mis-reads from wind, lights, etc that you see on traditional chronos and giving the option for a much quicker and simpler setup.

looks very promising. if you could mount it to the front bipod rail to eliminate barrel involvement it would be perfect.

 

[FmrChief]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

With credit to taseal, harmonics very well be affected, and I will certainly find out.

The previous load test with N135 at .3 gr steps followed my rifle's typical half sine wave pattern of wider-tighter-wider-tighter-wider. Next trip, I'll take the best and next adjacent load for two volleys each with chrono and without. If barrel harmonics are affected, the groups should either flip-flop or both widen. If not, hopefully I will shoot better and the good group will be even tighter

Test plan (hopefully by the weekend, if not sooner):

Volley 1 fouling shots
Volley 2 41.2 gr without MagnetoSpeed
Volley 3 41.2 gr with MagnetoSpeed
Volley 4 40.9 gr without MagnetoSpeed
Volley 5 40.9 gr with MagnetoSpeed

BTW... the Sierra 175gr MKHP bullets I use are coated with hBN (hexagonal boron nitride) and the bore is treated with hBN after each cleaning. Some reloading manuals cite 41.2 gr of N135 as a near maximum load. It works fine in my rifle with the hBN treatment and my carefully prepped LC LR 7.62x51 cases. The reader is cautioned to do prudent load development starting with lighter, published safe loads.

 

[Ustasha]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

anybody know where i can order one of these sent to Australia, ive contacted the manufacturer but they are in the process of organising export permits. Are they only available from the manufacturers website at this time?

regards Ed

 

[Lowlight]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

FYI,

Today I shot it on a 20" AX 338LM, and even with the small amount of clearance it worked.

The rifle had a SAS TOMB muzzle brake on it and I just had to make sure to get the height right and the numbers were solid.

 

[blair]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

tag

 

[FmrChief]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

I managed to conduct my promised group comparison between MagnetoSpeed and no-MagnetoSpeed volleys.

First the target scans, then the discussion. BTW, the dividing lines on the targets are half-inch and the range is 100 yards. Also, the group from the second target was copied and pasted (colorized with blue) on the first target to make visual comparison easier.

Here's the 41.2 gr N135, .308 Win, Sierra 175gr MKHP comparison:

Velocities for the 1.789" group:

2678
2685
2679
2680
2670

Here's the 40.9 gr N135, .308 Win, Sierra 175gr MKHP comparison:

Velocities for the 1.143" group:

2689
2669
2666
2649
2682

I apologize for the crummy shooting. I don't know if it was me, or the new detachable rings I was trying out. Regardless, the shape and placement of the groups leads me to believe that the MagnetoSpeed does not appear to seriously affect accuracy.

In the first comparison, the naked barrel group is smaller than the MagnetoSpeed mounted group, but the second comparison features a smaller MagnetoSpeed group.

In both comparisons, the vertical deflection is around 1.5 to 2 inches. Horizontal deflection appears to be affected by cant, so the user should ensure the MagnetoSpeed is vertical.

I discovered something about the micro-SD disk. I was trying out a spare 8GB disk I had lying around and was getting "Clock Overflow" when I tried to "Archive Series". When I switched back to the 1GB disk that came with the unit, everything worked fine. I will report this problem to the MagnetoSpeed folks for their comment. <span style="color: #FF0000">(Update: The chronograph can write only to a FAT16 formatted Micro-SD disk. That limits disk size to 2GB.)</span>

I hope this data is useful to someone.

Disclaimer: mentioned load data may not be safe in your rifle. Use manufacturer recommended load data for developing your own safe cartridges.

 

[hrt4me]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

interesting new product

 

[jhay51]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

First post and all, but if everyone is getting high POI's, is it possible the change is not due to barrel harmonics as First Chief mentioned earlier? Could it be some deflection of the shockwave as the bullet passes over the device? If testing was performed with it not attached to the barrel and they are all still high that would give the answer, or if it wasn't in the scope view you could mount it at a different angle on the barrel and see if it deflects the opposite way consistently. Just curious, I get that a simple POI change may not make a difference to a particular user.

 

[Sportin Wood]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

^^ So gangsta hold it. Instead of holding the glock sideways, strap the magneto on sideways and see if the POI changes fro up to left/right....

 

[Early Cuyler]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jhay51</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Could it be some deflection of the shockwave as the bullet passes over the device? </div></div>

My question to this would be if the bullet is leaving the barrel at faster than the speed of sound, how is a sonic boom (shockwave) going to catch up to the bullet to even have an effect?

 

[jhay51]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

Might be something to do before putting a lot of time and effort into rigging a non-barrel mount.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jhay51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First post and all, but if everyone is getting high POI's, is it possible the change is not due to barrel harmonics as First Chief mentioned earlier? Could it be some deflection of the shockwave as the bullet passes over the device? If testing was performed with it not attached to the barrel and they are all still high that would give the answer, or if it wasn't in the scope view you could mount it at a different angle on the barrel and see if it deflects the opposite way consistently. Just curious, I get that a simple POI change may not make a difference to a particular user. </div></div>

This is my guess, (Still a wave) the close proximity of the bullet to the sensor bar is pushing the round up, seems like the best explanation, I don't think the harmonics have anything to do with it.

 

[Early Cuyler]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

How about this- as the bullet leaves the bore, the boat tail ever so briefly exposes rifling out of which gases escape quicker than the speed of the bullet. These gases hit and bounce off the magneto Chrony upwards WHILE the bullet is over the magneto. The result of this super brief, super small deflection is an upwards shift in POI.

How about that, huh? And it didn't even hurt pulling it out my ass!

 

[Boomholzer]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

I would agree that the poi shift is probably not harmonics . If you guys want to test your theories why not try mounting the device in the 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock orientation? The mass on the muzzle would remain constant and any deflection off the surface of the device would now be horizontal deviation instead of vertical.

 

[FmrChief]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

I'll be happy to mount the MagnetoSpeed at 90 degrees off vertical to verify the deflection theory for POI change, but if you look at the high speed photography on the MagnetoSpeed website "Tech Info" page the muzzle blast sure looks like it affects the bullet.

I guessing there are likely two interactions between the sensor and the bullet. First, the blast area (the curvy section between the muzzle and sensor deck) may deflect some of the muzzle blast under the bullet just enough to change trajectory. Secondly, the supersonic bullet is traveling very close to the sensor deck, which could affect the aerodynamics.

From: www2.mae.ufl.edu/~uhk/MATHFUNC.htm. BTW, I'm not the "author" mentioned in the image.

But, here's my SWAG (scientific wild arsed guess) on the full interaction. Muzzle blast deflects upward into the base of the bullet which would lower the POI, but the lift provide by interaction of the bow wave deflection against the sensor deck over-corrects that effect and raises the POI.

The best folks to answer this are the brainiacs at MagnetoSpeed. After all, they really are rocket scientists!

Free beers are being accepted at any pub near my location.

 

[Trovan]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

Couple of observations after using the Magneto:

1. When shooting through Oehler 35P at the same time, the Magneto averaged 13 FPS slower than Oehler

2. When shooting through PVM-08 at the same time, the Magneto averaged 13 FPS slower than PVM-08

3. When shooting the Magneto attached to the muzzle at the 6 o'clock position, the POI moves high but very repeatable and still shoots nice groups.

4. When shooting the Magneto attached to the muzzle at the 12 0'clock position, the POI moved lower but very repeatable. (just tried this for 1 5 shot group)

5. With roughly 150 rounds fired across Magneto, no shots failed to record a speed.

 

[sosicmcise]

Re: MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Review

I've had a MagnetoSpeed for about 3 weeks and it has been dead nuts accurate every time i've used it. Yes, I get a small vertical point of impact shift but it does not concern me in the slightest.

I've used every type of chronograph out there, and this is BY FAR the most simple and efficient design i've ever seen for capturing accurate velocity data in the field.

Comparing the velocity displayed by the MagnetoSpeed to the velocity used to calculate my firing solutions all the way out to 1,000 yards, they match up very well.

As soon as I saw it, I was instantly pissed that I didn't invent it. Great product.