Make your own HEAVY BUFFER

[breastroker]

I am on another build trip. I have several Spikes Tactical T2 buffers that use tungsten powder instead of steel and tungsten discs.
Not sue if they are the cause, but I NEVER heard the AR twang until I used a lower without the T2 buffer.

Getting an AR10, going to make a heavy rifle buffer. Purchased a bottle dog ear tipping weight tungsten. It was the best price for pure tungsten, $14 for 3 ounces of powdered tungsten.

Going to take the AR10 buffer apart and put the powdered tungsten in. Hoping for another two to three ounces. Heavy AR10 buffers are VERY EXPENSIVE ($125). Standard rifle weight is 5.4 ounces, Heavy Buffers makes a 303 stainless 10 ounce buffer.

Of course this will also work for our AR15 buffers
Pretty simple, drive out the roll pin that holds the plastic buffer tip, remove tip. Shake out the steel or tungsten discs that are inside.

Fill buffer with tungsten allowing space for the plastic tip to be installed. Reinstall tip and roll pin. Shoot

Actually I would weigh every step, and use epoxy on area between plastic bottom and tungsten powder so nothing can escape.


Next project or projects is adding adjustable gas blocks to my ARs as they are ALL over gassed. Then I plan on cutting weight from the bolt carrier and buffers.

My new DPMS 308 Long Range 308 Lite rifle gets in to the FFL tomorrow. Going to break in the barrel by shooting 3-5 shots each time, then clean with JB Bore Cleaner and Bore Snakes. I figure it will take 20-30 shots to get the new 8-32x50 scope dialed in starting at 25 yards, then 50 then 100, finally at 200 yards.

I have a Wilson Combat adjustable gas block on order, depending on how the 308 recoil affects me I may take the barrel off and have the muzzle threaded for a JP Enterprise 'Cooley" brake. Last year there were days I could not lift my right arm up to shoulder level without horrible pain. Much less pain this year.

With the gas block installed I will go with a lighter rifle length buffer. They don't make one, but I have the JP Enterprise AR15 LMOS buffer that weighs 3 ounces compared to 5.4 stock. It is too long, plan on using a tubing cutter to cut the aluminum to the correct length and then drill a new roll pin hole for the plastic bumper piece.
JPLMOSbuffer_zps597a4242.jpg Photo by brasse | Photobucket

I used over one bottle of Tungsten on an AR15 carbine buffer. Original weight was 2.95 ounces. My T2 buffer was 4.05 ounces.

I emptied out the carbine buffer internals, and put as much tungsten as I could. You have to keep tapping and settling the tungsten powder. New weight is 4.20 ounces. So between a T2 and a T3 buffer. this one is going into sons AR15 that is over gassed. Cost slightly over $20.

Haven't tried it in my AR10 buffer yet

 

[Steelhead]

Where did you find the tungsten? Hobby store?

 

[ORD]

+1 on where you sourced the HD Tungsten power?

Last I checked, it was ~$65/lb (more than enough for a couple buffers at present weight)!

Also, what did you, specifically, end up doing in terms of "capping" or otherwise "sealing" in the HDTP? Just wondering as I've contemplated different avenues for doing this with everything from epoxy to silicon rubber to turning down a compression fitting steel "cap", but I've not come to any conclusions as to what's best.

 

[Ballista One]

The buffer assemblies ability to prevent carrier bounce is directly attributed to RECIPROCATING mass. Filling the cavity in the buffer body with granulated tungsten is nothing more than emulating the stupidity that is the Spikes ST-T2.

 

[breastroker]

Try ebay I paid $18 for 3 ounces. Just put some silicon on the end, and insert the plastic bumper.

 

[breastroker]

"emulating the stupidity that is the Spikes ST-T2" shows you don't know much. I love my T2 buffers in my over gassed AR15's

I also know at least a dozen people who also like the Spikes ST-T2. How much percentage wise do you think the AR15's sold to the public are over gassed? By what I see at the gun range 80 to 90%. When I see one with perfect ejection they either have a expensive AR15, an adjustable gas block or heavier buffers.

The Spikes ST-T2 was the perfect weight for several of my AR's. They were all over gassed, all eject at 3 o'clock now and all are sub MOA at 200 yards.

Yes I am finally getting around to fitting adjustable gas blocks, but the Spikes ST-T2 is a great product that fills a need.

 

[pinsandpitons]

What about lead shot? Not as high tech as tungsten, but much heavier than steel.

 

[Dirtyboy333]

Wouldn't an H3 be heavier than any of these? Also, it would keep the reciprocating mass properties.

 

[MicroMOA]

"emulating the stupidity that is the Spikes ST-T2" shows you don't know much. I love my T2 buffers in my over gassed AR15's

I also know at least a dozen people who also like the Spikes ST-T2. How much percentage wise do you think the AR15's sold to the public are over gassed? By what I see at the gun range 80 to 90%. When I see one with perfect ejection they either have a expensive AR15, an adjustable gas block or heavier buffers.

The Spikes ST-T2 was the perfect weight for several of my AR's. They were all over gassed, all eject at 3 o'clock now and all are sub MOA at 200 yards.

Yes I am finally getting around to fitting adjustable gas blocks, but the Spikes ST-T2 is a great product that fills a need.

I agree, at least 90% are over gassed....but it is all relative.
Think back 20 years ago (if you're as old as I am) and there was no comm block 5.56 on the market back then and only handful of AR parts mfgr's.
Now with so many choices of springs, buffers and steel cased ammo, barrel mfgr's have to over gas the ports so they don't get a return.

Luckygunner did good test on steel vs brass cased ammo and has some good info. Relative to this discussion is the fact that Tula uses the same powder they use for the AK which burns faster than what you would see used for an AR:
So while Tula has decent velocities most people will say it is weak. The issue is that the peak pressures occur closer to the breach and by the time it gets to the gas port in the barrel it is lower than other rounds --hence the need to oversize the gas port.

Soo....if your gun runs Tula then it probably isn't overgassed WHEN running Tula. When running decent brass cased it will be overgassed.

Several ways to skin this cat but most people opt for the simple buffer swap. While that does work it is not practical to change buffers everytime you change ammo and in addition a heavy buffer doesn't reduce all the fouling coming into the action. Only controlling the gas can do that.

Recoil magazine did a good article which reiterates this here: MicroMOA?s ?Govnah? Adjustable Gas Block (Pt 1 of 2) - RECOIL and here: MicroMOA?s ?Govnah? Adjustable Gas Block (Pt 2 of 2) - RECOIL

My patented tool-less adjustable block is based on port sizes vs obstructing the gas flow with a screw which leaves you guessing on the surface area of the gas port size.
In addition, you know what position the gas block in is by just looking at or even in complete darkness by feel.

You can see in the picture below that the block uses swappable regulator plates and you can do whatever port size you want with a numbered drill bit set.

We have a state LE agency using a 3 position configuration of optimal-unsuppressed/suppressed/adverse. The adverse simply matches the port in the barrel. While they do not shoot steel cased, they DO use Simunitions which is weaker than their duty loads. Before they were swapping buffers/springs out when going to the Simunitions and now they just move the regulator over to the adverse to run the Simunitions. It is also dual function for use when using duty loads and if the gun is too dirty to function. Then of course suppressed is for suppressed.

In regards to buffer selection, I use the time and battle proven H2 buffer and standard power spring. An H2 is all you need to stop bolt bounce. Any heavier and it is just more reciprocating mass.

Plenty more info, pics, and vids on my site: MicroMOA - Home of the Govnah - Modular Adjustable Gas Block

 

[breastroker]

I am probably older than you, I remember the Berlin wall GOING UP>

Another question, why would anyone use TULA ammo in anything other than an AK or SKS?

My Lilja barreled 223 wylde will shoot MOA with the cheap armscore, and MUCH better with my favorite 52 GR Black Hills match.


Some writer let the cat out of the bag recently on how good the 52 GR Black Hills match shoot.

 

[Ballista One]

Another question, why would anyone use TULA ammo in anything other than an AK or SKS?

All of the answers I can think of begin with they (used as third person pronoun serving as the plural of he, she, or it) and end in cheap.

 

[MicroMOA]

I am probably older than you, I remember the Berlin wall GOING UP>

Another question, why would anyone use TULA ammo in anything other than an AK or SKS?

Tell me about it...I never shoot the stuff either but being on the commercial side, it is hard to please everyone. I don't see why anyone would pay for a match grade barrel and then put crap ammo in it.....I guess just like how some people put cheap gas in cars that require high octane.

 

[ORD]

In addition to people being "cheap" I think a lot of it has to do with being "stupid" or some approximation of stupid anyway be it caused by a lack of education on what "good" ammo is and thinking that if it goes bang reliably, it must be good enough, or they otherwise bought a load of it for their AK variants and think it must be good for their ARs too. Either way about it...cheap or stupid...it isn't a particularly good idea to run Tula crap in an AR. Garbage in...garbage out!

 

[cal50]

What about lead shot? Not as high tech as tungsten, but much heavier than steel.

The specific gravity of materials~

Tungsten = 14.2
Lead = 11.3
Steel = 7.8'ish


If you have steel slugs in your buffer replacing them with lead gives you a nice increase in weight for cheap.
Tungsten is heavier with a heavier cost.

 

[WildBill3/75]

I've done something very similar to this with my 6.5 Grendel that had dwell time issues.

Ordered 2 H3 buffers and raped them for the tungsten weights.

BE VERY CAREFUL.
I ran a Tubb Flatwire in conjunction with a rifle buffer with 4 tungsten weights in an attempt to increase dwell time.
It worked but made for sporadic slam fires.

Remember the ar system uses a free floating firing pin!
If you got enough weight moving at the right speeds that creates the perfect environment for slam fires.

I put the stock spring and replaced one of the tungsten weights with a standard and am all good now. Just a word of caution, don't use a super heavy spring with alot of mass behind the BCG....that is a no no.

Most important part to dwell time issues is an adjustable gas block IMO. I run an adjustable gas block with the stock buffer spring and 3 tungsten weights in the rifle buffer and the dwell time is just where I want it. It is something you will have to play with.

 

[sakobob]

i have a question… why is it going to take 20-30 rounds to site in the scope.

 

[Tangodown911]

5-6 shots ought to do it.

 

[Ballista One]

If you have steel slugs in your buffer replacing them with lead gives you a nice increase in weight for cheap. Tungsten is heavier with a heavier cost.

I'd argue that lead would be a poor choice for a couple of reasons. Price should never be the first consideration when choosing a part that has such a large impact on the operation of your rifle.

 

[AXEMAN]

you cant fill the buffer body with enough lead to make it work. but you can buy 5oz heavy buffers on amazon for $10. I bought three a month ago

 

[pinsandpitons]

I'd argue that lead would be a poor choice for a couple of reasons. Price should never be the first consideration when choosing a part that has such a large impact on the operation of your rifle.

What's the second reason?

 

[Ballista One]

What's the second reason?

It's lead... enough said.

 

[Delta4-3]

It's lead... enough said.

I have been casting lead bullets for 15 years. You just have to be smart about how you use it. Having lead incased in a buffer is not going to make all your teeth fall out or anything.

 

[Ballista One]

I have been casting lead bullets for 15 years. You just have to be smart about how you use it. Having lead incased in a buffer is not going to make all your teeth fall out or anything.

I wasn't angling away for health reasons. It's just not the proper material for the application. There is just no good reason to use it.

 

[Delta4-3]

My apologies sir. I jumped the gun there. I'm very used to people fear mongering about lead. You are correct.

I wasn't angling away for health reasons. It's just not the proper material for the application. There is just no good reason to use it.

 

[pinsandpitons]

So back to my original question on the subject (post #7), is it too soft? Too easily abraded? What exactly makes it (lead) a bad material for this particular application? Dead blow hammers are filled with it, and do an admirable job of limiting "bounce".

I'd also add that in my (limited) understanding, an adjustable gas block is the simplest, most definitive fix to most if not all the issues above, but that's a different discussion.

 

[breastroker]

Not sure you can get enough lead into a AR15 or worse an AR10 carbine buffer to help much. I bought one of those Amazon/eBay 5 oz buffers, the discs are jammed in so tight I can't get them out.

I bought 6 ounces of tungsten to try several different configurations. The AR15 rifle buffer can be loaded with the most tungsten discs/powder, the AR10 rifle buffer at 0.63 inches shorter with 6 discs has half a disc room.

The big elephant in the room is that adjustable gas block. My first AR15 that would shoot less than 1 MOA (>0.5MOA) has a rifle length carbon fiber handguard with a carbine length gas system. So there is no way I can easily take the gas block out like I want.

I just changed the DPMS gas block on my Light Weight hunter 24 inch barrel, also came with 12.375 inch carbon fiber handguard. But because the rifle length gat tube is longer, it took less than 5 minutes to take the old one off and adjust the new one. And finally there are now several companies that adjustable gas blocks adjust from the muzzle end, 100% better than the receiver end.

So if I can ever get the carbine fiber tube off my Lilja barreled 223 wylde, I can put a front adjustable gas block and still use a carbon fiber hand guard.

 

[ORD]

The big elephant in the room is that adjustable gas block. My first AR15 that would shoot less than 1 MOA (>0.5MOA) has a rifle length carbon fiber handguard with a carbine length gas system. So there is no way I can easily take the gas block out like I want.

I just changed the DPMS gas block on my Light Weight hunter 24 inch barrel, also came with 12.375 inch carbon fiber handguard. But because the rifle length gat tube is longer, it took less than 5 minutes to take the old one off and adjust the new one. And finally there are now several companies that adjustable gas blocks adjust from the muzzle end, 100% better than the receiver end.

So if I can ever get the carbine fiber tube off my Lilja barreled 223 wylde, I can put a front adjustable gas block and still use a carbon fiber hand guard.

The best method is by far going to an adjustable block and dealing with overgassing/fine-tuning of the operating system at the source of the problem, but as you observed, that isn't always the easiest thing to do.

It all depends on which make/model/mounting-type of CF handguard you are running as to the ease/difficulty of removal/reinstallation. In the case of the older DPMS models that were essentially epoxied onto the barrel nut, you can attempt to heat them up and safely remove the handguard without damaging it, but that's hit and miss in my experience. Generally speaking, once its been epoxied onto the nut, its meant to be more or less permanent and getting them off often results in damage to the tube. That's just one of the many reasons I LOATHE the DPMS CF tubes. I'd much prefer to opt for the Lancer style handguards, or those from PRI for a CF tube given their more "traditional" mount up not involving high-strength glue!!

Were it my rifle and assuming it had the glue-on type tube, I'd gladly remove it (damaged or otherwise) and install alternatives just to avoid the future maintenance/upgrade headaches involved with them.

 

[Ballista One]

So back to my original question on the subject (post #7), is it too soft? Too easily abraded? What exactly makes it (lead) a bad material for this particular application? Dead blow hammers are filled with it, and do an admirable job of limiting "bounce".

I'd also add that in my (limited) understanding, an adjustable gas block is the simplest, most definitive fix to most if not all the issues above, but that's a different discussion.

Timing is everything... Like granulated WC (tungsten carbide), lead shot will not be able to shift its mass instantaneously and mitigate carrier bounce as well as slugs can. Albeit, carrier bounce is only a concern with select fire weapons and race guns with very short reset triggers.

 

[cal50]

I'd argue that lead would be a poor choice for a couple of reasons. Price should never be the first consideration when choosing a part that has such a large impact on the operation of your rifle.

Argue all you want, its simply more weight in the same volume / space replacing the steel weight with a same size lead weight.
If you can obtain the desired weight in the volume constraints of your buffer the cost does not matter.

Weight is weight.

 

[Ballista One]

Argue all you want, its simply more weight in the same volume / space replacing the steel weight with a same size lead weight.
If you can obtain the desired weight in the volume constraints of your buffer the cost does not matter.

Weight is weight.

... and stupid is as stupid does. This is nothing short of a look how big my cock is show, I built my own heavy buffer. Do you want a fucking cookie?

Mary mother of Jesus, you can buy an H2 from a number of sources for around $30. But since your time is worthless, go play with some lead shot and build your own.

 

[cal50]

... and stupid is as stupid does. This is nothing short of a look how big my cock is show, I built my own heavy buffer. Do you want a fucking cookie?

Mary mother of Jesus, you can buy an H2 from a number of sources for around $30. But since your time is worthless, go play with some lead shot and build your own.

Sounds like you have a penis size anxiety issue and a penchant for sweets.

 

[pinsandpitons]

Some people place a value on building, fixing or creating stuff rather than consuming it from Walmart.

 

[breastroker]

After dozens of AR rifle builds including a 2.85 pound AR15 in 556 and a 3.9 pound AR308, I have concluded THERE is NO SUCH THING AS Carrier/buffer bounce in a Semi Auto AR rifle. I haven't used a buffer with any weights in them in nearly 4 years. Have a bunch of empty AR15 buffers @ 0.95 ounces in aluminum and as light as 0.45 ounces in polymer. Lots more people are buying the TACCOM polymer buffers or just taking the weights out of their aluminum buffers. The venerable SR25 used a 0.50 ounce solid nylon buffer!!

Of course all of my AR's use adjustable gas blocks or adjustable carrier keys. Almost all use much lighter carriers in steel or titanium or now aluminum.

Back in 2014 I actually build an AR308 buffer that weighed 10 ounces, still have a lot of tungsten pills.

You would think my 3.9 pound AR308 would kick like a Democrat mule, actually very soft recoil about the same as my 6.8 SPC AR's. And lots of sub MOA groups with a wide variety of factory ammo from 110 to 175 grain ammo.

 

[elfster1234]

Not sure if this helps ya or not, but I just did this review of the Odin works adjustable buffer that you can adjust in less than a minute from 3.8 to 5.8 ounces and for $49!!!! And I got some rather interesting findings on how heavy I went in the two uppers (1&5.56 and [email protected]) using the same lower with the adjustable Odin works buffer installed . I still think you need all 3 for right tuning (adj gas block, good buffer, and good spring) but if you’re on a budget I think this is worth watching and Odin sells separate tungsten weights if you want to even go over 5.8

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Research Hevi-shot, tungsten shot, and bismuth shot for price and comparative density. Non-toxic shot buyers' guide.

I used to use bismuth shot as ballast for Pinewood Derby cars, in the interest of being non-toxic.

Greg

 

[TonyTheTiger]

After dozens of AR rifle builds including a 2.85 pound AR15 in 556 and a 3.9 pound AR308, I have concluded THERE is NO SUCH THING AS Carrier/buffer bounce in a Semi Auto AR rifle. I haven't used a buffer with any weights in them in nearly 4 years. Have a bunch of empty AR15 buffers @ 0.95 ounces in aluminum and as light as 0.45 ounces in polymer. Lots more people are buying the TACCOM polymer buffers or just taking the weights out of their aluminum buffers. The venerable SR25 used a 0.50 ounce solid nylon buffer!!

Of course all of my AR's use adjustable gas blocks or adjustable carrier keys. Almost all use much lighter carriers in steel or titanium or now aluminum.

Back in 2014 I actually build an AR308 buffer that weighed 10 ounces, still have a lot of tungsten pills.

You would think my 3.9 pound AR308 would kick like a Democrat mule, actually very soft recoil about the same as my 6.8 SPC AR's. And lots of sub MOA groups with a wide variety of factory ammo from 110 to 175 grain ammo.

I'm of the same opinion regarding carrier bounce. Been using the Taccom buffer as well as empty buffers for a few years with success.
It sounds like you've built more than a few AR's off the beaten path, you should start a thread about them!

 

[biffj]

The problem of lead has nothing to do with weight or the amount of time it takes for it to move. Lead would indeed be a better choice than steel except for the problem of its hardness and the fact that it will swell over time and jam up in the buffer. Repeated hammering as it cycles back and forth will swell up slugs to the point that they no longer slide back and forth in the buffer housing and therefore will not do the job. Lead powder or shot will deform until it jams itself at one end or the other and loses its ability to do the job. You want the buffer weights to move so that when the bolt stops the weights continue forward to stop the bolt from bouncing. Its not simply weight, its sliding weight. If this was not the case a solid steel buffer would be as good as one with removable moving weights. Lead is heavier than steel and therefore it should do as well or better but you would need to enclose it in some sort of shell that won't deform. Maybe cast it into steel shells that prevent deformation.......
Tungsten powder works better because first of all it is not soft and deformable. Second it is heavier for unit volume and will do the same job with less material. It can be dumped into a standard buffer housing without any need to protect it from deforming into a clump that sticks in the tube.

Frank

 

[Rocketvapor]

I filled my buffer with lead (hammered 45 bullets).
Added two ounces to the rifle.
Don't run gas, so no worries there