March-FX 5-42X56 HM Gen 2 with writable turrets at PRS Expo

[carbonbased]

At this time that is correct, I can inquire about potentially having it available in other models but I don’t think this is the plan at this time.

The writable turrets are also usable in a hunting situation if you have some known distances you wanted to setup elevation dials for ahead of time.

I like the idea of lockable and writable turrets.

 

[carbonbased]

I understand what you are saying. Your first sentence says it all: "a tree gets in the way in PRS." The FML-WBR was designed specifically for PRS, by a PRS competitor, and installed in a riflescope optimized for PRS (writable turrets, proper zoom range, extra wide angle.)

If you can use the reticle for other purposes, more power to you, but PRS competition was the goal for this reticle.

Oh, I totally get it. Wasn’t critiquing the FML-WBR at all. Looks like a fine reticle. In fact, it’s probably better than the H2CMR in my S&B 5-25.

I was just reacting to the bolded bit of his post (at the end):

But all that said we are always looking for more feedback and perhaps in the future they may be a tree design who knows.

That’s all. Just putting my 2¢ in.

 

[Glassaholic]

I think he might be referencing my post about the exit pupil limiter in the 4.5-28 that has a side effect of reducing its low light performance. @koshkin had mentioned it was there for flare reduction (see my post a ways up).

Never did get an answer about if the same setup applies to this 5-42.

Maybe March uses different flare-reduction strategies in other scopes

Such as? What trade-offs are involved with reducing/eliminating flare?

What carbon says above is correct, it was in reference to the limited exit pupil which also helps with DOF. The tradeoff being you sacrifice low light effectiveness for a more forgiving design. That said, the 4.5-28 is still one of my favorite scopes for all that it offers, but it is not the first choice for dawn/dusk situations without a clipon.

 

[Glassaholic]

There’s a reason March has stuck with translating turrets, I believe Denys will elaborate on this further.

As for parallax the 5-42 gen II with my reticle has been on my rifles for prs for some time in both train up and actual matches and I can comfortably say the parallax is very forgiving. I basically set my parallax and don’t touch it unless I push into higher magnification for some reason. I’ve found I have no issues using the scope from 400-1100 with no adjustment.

Curious, what magnification range do you typically stay within during a match? In preliminary testing I found the March 5-42x56 Gen2 to be one of the best scopes to look through in the 5-25 range, even besting TT in some areas…

 

[carbonbased]

Curious, what magnification range do you typically stay within during a match? In preliminary testing I found the March 5-42x56 Gen2 to be one of the best scopes to look through in the 5-25 range, even besting TT in some areas…

Besting the TT 7-35?

 

[Glassaholic]

Besting the TT 7-35?

In some areas yes, but keep in mind this was preliminary testing and I have asked March for a production model to review but they have said they have none to spare. I could buy one outright but having just saved my recently homeless inlaws from Hurricane Helene and Milton has cut finances and time to the minimum. At some point down the road (likely next year) I will work on getting a non US full FOV Schmidt 6-36, ZCO 8-40, March G2 5-42 and TT 7-35 for round two of the elite high mag alpha’s… but stars have to align for that one.

 

[carbonbased]

In some areas yes, but keep in mind this was preliminary testing and I have asked March for a production model to review but they have said they have none to spare. I could buy one outright but having just saved my recently homeless inlaws from Hurricane Helene and Milton has cut finances and time to the minimum. At some point down the road (likely next year) I will work on getting a non US full FOV Schmidt 6-36, ZCO 8-40, March G2 5-42 and TT 7-35 for round two of the elite high mag alpha’s… but stars have to align for that one.

Cool!

Just making sure you weren’t talking about the 5-25. People are so used to saying “the TT” because for quite some time there was only one they were referencing.

 

[Onebadstang16]

Curious, what magnification range do you typically stay within during a match? In preliminary testing I found the March 5-42x56 Gen2 to be one of the best scopes to look through in the 5-25 range, even besting TT in some areas…

I run most of my stages in the 22-24 range due to the large fov the gen II offers, I shoot the movers usually in the 18-20 power range which is around 15-17 in other scopes in the class.

I have on troop lines run the optic in quite a bit more especially if it’s not a time crunch stage and the position allows me to run more magnification and still see impacts. The versatility of the optic is quite nice to have.

 

[Onebadstang16]

Cool!

Just making sure you weren’t talking about the 5-25. People are so used to saying “the TT” because for quite some time there was only one they were referencing.

I by no means want to promote March by putting others down and in so many ways optics design is a management of compromise but I will say the March 5-42 is absolutely a tier 1 level optic and should without question be in the discussion of just how good the optic is.

Alot of optic opinion is just that opinion, but the feedback the team has gotten has been quite good and interesting to see people go… wow this glass is REALLY good. I hope you guys are both able to get behind one and see for yourselves if your going to be at any matches or shot show please come see Denys and I in the March booth.

 

[Fret]

Besting the TT 7-35?

I think ILya rated the Gen 1 center resolution a bit above or equal to that of the 7-35x TT in his alpha review. The IQ of the Gen 2 is supposed to be improved over the Gen 1 with less edge distortion.

 

[Glassaholic]

I think ILya rated the Gen 1 center resolution a bit above or equal to that of the 7-35x TT in his alpha review. The IQ of the Gen 2 is supposed to be improved over the Gen 1 with less edge distortion.

The copy of the Gen2 scope I had did indeed significantly correct for edge distortion over the Gen1 model.

 

[Onebadstang16]

The copy of the Gen2 scope I had did indeed significantly correct for edge distortion over the Gen1 model.

I can also confirm I have no edge distortion in my gen 2 with FML-WBR reticle at any magnification range.

 

[Denys]

What carbon says above is correct, it was in reference to the limited exit pupil which also helps with DOF. The tradeoff being you sacrifice low light effectiveness for a more forgiving design. That said, the 4.5-28 is still one of my favorite scopes for all that it offers, but it is not the first choice for dawn/dusk situations without a clipon.

Yeah, I don't know that that has anything to do with controlling flare. The times when I have had to aim close to the Sun were during late afternoon competitions and I can assure you that I was not at a low magnification where the exit pupil was being further reduced by design. I remember a match in Lodi where I had to put a towel over my head to cover my face from the Sun, and the only thing peeking out was my rifle with its March scope on top, cranked at 40X. Everyone around me was complaining about flare in their scopes, not I.

It was epic.

 

[carbonbased]

Yeah, I don't know that that has anything to do with controlling flare. The times when I have had to aim close to the Sun were during late afternoon competitions and I can assure you that I was not at a low magnification where the exit pupil was being further reduced by design. I remember a match in Lodi where I had to put a towel over my head to cover my face from the Sun, and the only thing peeking out was my rifle with its March scope on top, cranked at 40X. Everyone around me was complaining about flare in their scopes, not I.

I was epic.

Good to hear!

Flare is my no.1 enemy, not lack of resolution, chromatic ab, mirage, poor low light performance etc etc etc.

 

[Glassaholic]

Good to hear!

Flare is my no.1 enemy, not lack of resolution, chromatic ab, mirage, poor low light performance etc etc etc.

Then you will love March scopes as mentioned before, they are some of the best at minimizing flare.

 

[Denys]

Good to hear!

Flare is my no.1 enemy, not lack of resolution, chromatic ab, mirage, poor low light performance etc etc etc.

I'm quizzical about your flair for encountering flare so much so that it's your no.1 enemy. I would also suggest that you use the sunshade that comes included with March riflescopes. I am a YUGE proponent of sunshades and their principal use, for me, is to protect that huge, expensive objective lens.

 

[carbonbased]

I'm quizzical about your flair for encountering flare so much so that it's your no.1 enemy. I would also suggest that you use the sunshade that comes included with March riflescopes. I am a YUGE proponent of sunshades and their principal use, for me, is to protect that huge, expensive objective lens.

First off, I always use a hood if I have one. There’s two scopes of mine that don’t have hoods in a test I reference below (since rectified one of them), but I’m not referring to them here outside of that test.

My main pdog field scope is a Razor G2 4.5-27, and it has a 4” long excellent hood with a great flat matte finish inside.

I am a pdog shooter. Almost always, I cannot change targets or general shooting direction in order to avoid shooting under/into the sun.

For most of the day, this is not a problem. But towards the end of the day, I’ve often found myself shooting east into the setting sun. It’s a function of where the great fields are located around my shooting area, I suppose.

The sun is not in the image circle of course. I’d be blind! But it’s above and typically to the right or left.

What happens with the Razor is a loss of contrast and the image starts washing out. It’s not end of the world but it prematurely ends the shooting session.

I did an informal flare test here (w/hood and without):

Flare / Glare / Backlit notes on 4 scopes (NX8 4-32, Razor Gen II 4.5-27, Razor LHT 4.5-22, S&B 5-25)

Here is an unscientific (and flawed) BACKLIT flare resistance test of four scopes I own. I aimed them under a setting sun during one single session. It’s flawed in the way that I didn’t have shades for two of the scopes. Plus dust, flare from improvised sunshades, and possible flare from a...

www.snipershide.com

Now, the test has its flaws, but I was downright flat-out amazed at how well the NF NX8 4-32 did and how crummy the S&B 5-25 did.

One more thing, and it’s important. I am NOT interested in flare tests under 20x. I found that zooming out quickly eliminated flare. But with tiny targets in the evening, I can’t zoom out.

So a flare test, for me anyway, is conducted from 20x upwards. Not sure if it matters, but it might: I also conducted it a ways out, ~500yds. I typically shoot from 200-450yds, but that day there was a deer at about 520-530yds.

I sort of think that conducting a test like this at 100yds or closer might skew the results, but I might be wrong.

I was looking at the effect on the image in general, and not trying to split hairs with an Air Force resolution chart. The differences between scopes was dramatic, so my rough approach satisfied my requirements.

 

[carbonbased]

It might help to know that once in a good field, I’m there much, much, much longer than a PRS competitor is when on a stage.

Not sure how long an F-class chap is on the target area, but I somehow doubt it would be 2-4 hours per field like I am. When I shoot pdogs I’m out all day, roughly 8-10 hrs in the summer, up north, where the days become loooonng.

Shooting pdogs becomes more like what I imagine an overwatch job is in LE or mil. Long stretches on the glass.

I only say this because over time, the cumulative effect of even minimal flare really starts wearing your eyes and brain out.

 

[Cody S]

I'd like to take a brief moment to shit on tangent theta.
my tt525p is one of the worst scopes for flare mitigation I own.
that is all.

 

[koshkin]

Did you mean non translating turrets are more complicated since more complicated might probably decrease reliability?

I really like the turrets on the Gen 2 and the Gen 1 turrets are also very nice. Going to get another March soon Deciding between another Gen 2 or the 10-60x HM for shooting groups on paper. If the 10-60x HM only had turrets like the 5-42x...........

Well....

The business with translating vs non-translating turrets can be argued both ways and I am not entirely sure which is a better way to go.

From impact resistance standpoint, non-translating turrets are usually a better idea. The way most of those turrets are designed, if you drop the scope onto a turret, you are not directly impacting the erector tube, which is what does bad things to your zero setting. The turret might get banged up and need to be replaced, but you are not transferring as much impact directly onto the internals of the scope.

If the turret is translating (i.e. goes up and down) as you adjust, you have fewer mechanical interfaces, so it is easier and cheaper to make it track reliable and keep slop to a minimum. However, you do not have quite as many rev counter options and a potential for impact issues.

In terms of internal design, most turrets made by Japanese companies are comparatively simple. Since almost noone in Japan shoots and the shooting they do is very different, it is sometimes difficult to explain why we want certain things. When you see a non-translating turret on a Japanese scope, chances are they did not design and the OEM is only doing it for a customer after a protracted argument about it. Working with a Japanese OEM is always a little bit of a battle.

ILya

 

[carbonbased]

I'd like to take a brief moment to shit on tangent theta.
my tt525p is one of the worst scopes for flare mitigation I own.
that is all.

I have read many reports of this. A reason I wouldn’t buy it, of course. Sort of a bummer.

 

[Cody S]

to the fine people at march...
you need to copy tangents turrets designs.
I'll absolutely pay extra for it on your scopes, no big deal. I like toolless re-zero

 

[Glassaholic]

I have read many reports of this. A reason I wouldn’t buy it, of course. Sort of a bummer.

As previously mentioned much of this can easily be remedied by sunshade or ARD

 

[NateVA]

As previously mentioned much of this can easily be remedied by sunshade or ARD

Their sun shade looks ridiculously long on their website but maybe it's a bad angle. I hope it's something I can mitigate because I'm a goofy looking dumbass with a TT 5-25 arriving tomorrow.

 

[koshkin]

As previously mentioned much of this can easily be remedied by sunshade or ARD

I thought Tangent shipped their scopes with ARDs. Tenebraex ARD works very well.

 

[NateVA]

I thought Tangent shipped their scopes with ARDs. Tenebraex ARD works very well.

For low light situations such as hunting for instance, would I notice a difference in light transmission between their sun shade and their ARD?

 

[Cody S]

I thought Tangent shipped their scopes with ARDs. Tenebraex ARD works very well.

is an ARD the same as a kill-flash? that's what mine came with, and the awesome tenebraex covers.
I like the scope, just pointing out it has downfalls too.

 

[Cody S]

For low light situations such as hunting for instance, would I notice a difference in light transmission between their sun shade and their ARD?

I didn't notice any difference above about 20 power

 

[carbonbased]

As previously mentioned much of this can easily be remedied by sunshade or ARD

Yeah, a hooded Razor G2 was roughly equal to an unhooded NX8 4-32.

But when I added a makeshift hood to the NF, the image got even better. Slightly better, but it basically completely negated the flare.

I prefer to start with a scope design that already kills most flare, unaided by hoods and ARDs.

Even if I always use a hood.

Because if you start with high performance, it just gets even better with a hood. And I’ll bet such a scope handles extreme extreme flare situations (worse than my test) better than a flare-y really good scope that has a hood.

It’s not axiomatic, but…

That’s just me.

 

[Cody S]

hey march, real talk, for the love of God please include tenebraex covers with the expensive prs scopes!
I don't often care about the other stuff, but I want you to design those tenebraex covers on the scope like tangent did or whatever so it's nice and sturdy.

 

[carbonbased]

is an ARD the same as a kill-flash?

Yep

 

[Denys]

hey march, real talk, for the love of God please include tenebraex covers with the expensive prs scopes!
I don't often care about the other stuff, but I want you to design those tenebraex covers on the scope like tangent did or whatever so it's nice and sturdy.

I would suggest you tell March directly at their website. Click, About Us=>Contact Us and fill in the form.

 

[Glassaholic]

For low light situations such as hunting for instance, would I notice a difference in light transmission between their sun shade and their ARD?

Yes, an ARD (killflash) will limit light transmission through the front objective as they seek to obscure any reflection off the glass surface back at the target which is their primary goal; how much this will affect actual performance I have not done any testing on. For maximum light transmission in low light scenarios a sunshade is going to be the best tradeoff between protecting against flare when the sun gets low and the transition to dawn or from dusk...

 

[NateVA]

Yes, an ARD (killflash) will limit light transmission through the front objective as they seek to obscure any reflection off the glass surface back at the target which is their primary goal; how much this will affect actual performance I have not done any testing on. For maximum light transmission in low light scenarios a sunshade is going to be the best tradeoff between protecting against flare when the sun gets low and the transition to dawn or from dusk...

Got it, thank you. Once Tangent Theta lets me buy the sun shade (their website has decided that even though I bought a scope cap 3 days ago without issue, they won't ship a sun shade to me) I'll find out if it's as freakishly long as their website pictures show.

 

[Denys]

I noticed that Tenebræx accessories are available for the 56mm March riflescopes, which includes this riflescope in question.

Tenebræx Riflescope Accessories: Scope Covers, ARDs, Polarizers and Sunguards | Armament Technology, Incorporated

Find the perfect scope cover for virtually any brand or model of optic or riflescope.

armament.com

 

[Denys]

And while the March scopes come with lockable flip caps included, I prefer to use leather caps (objective and eyepiece). I remove them at the start of a match and slip them back on when I'm finished shooting.

 

[carbonbased]

And while the March scopes come with lockable flip caps included, I prefer to use leather caps (objective and eyepiece). I remove them at the start of a match and slip them back on when I'm finished shooting.

I’m getting that it’s-dark-then-closeup-of-hands-slipping-on-creaking-leather-gloves-and-opening-sniper-riflecase movie vibe here lol

Just ribbin’ ya!

 

[Denys]

Yeah, I never tried to pass myself off as a sniper, nor do I play one on TV or in movies. Also, sniper movies are mostly crap. I think the funniest one I ever saw was The American with George Clooney (2010, I think.) He was supposed to be a sniper and got a special "sniper rifle" (TM) built for him by some guy in Italy, I think it was. The special rifle was built using a, get this, Ruger Mini-14. That was too funny

At any rate, the leather caps from March are here:

https://marchscopes.com/accessories/#LeatherCaps

 

[Cody S]

those look nice but there's a 100% chance I will lose one or both of them inside 3 range sessions.

 

[Denys]

those look nice but there's a 100% chance I will lose one or both of them inside 3 range sessions.

Buy several, or place an electronic tag on them.

 

[carbonbased]

Yeah, I never tried to pass myself off as a sniper, nor do I play one on TV or in movies. Also, sniper movies are mostly crap. I think the funniest one I ever saw was The American with George Clooney (2010, I think.) He was supposed to be a sniper and got a special "sniper rifle" (TM) built for him by some guy in Italy, I think it was. The special rifle was built using a, get this, Ruger Mini-14. That was too funny

At any rate, the leather caps from March are here:

https://marchscopes.com/accessories/#LeatherCaps

Those do look cool ! Seriously.

Now where did I put my ventilated black leather driving gloves…

 

[Onebadstang16]

to the fine people at march...
you need to copy tangents turrets designs.
I'll absolutely pay extra for it on your scopes, no big deal. I like toolless re-zero

Unfortunately there are patent limitations regarding tooless designs which is why the Theta is the scope that has it currently, once those run out I bet you see many companies adapt that into their optics.

 

[Fret]

Element was able to make a nice tooless turret for their Theos so I'm sure March could do the same if so inclined.

 

[Onebadstang16]

I would suggest you tell March directly at their website. Click, About Us=>Contact Us and fill in the form.

If only someone on the team would have said this as well… perhaps not include them but make sure the design is integrated and available. Hard to include another companies product with yours directly.

 

[Cody S]

@Onebadstang16 is absolutely right. me thinks you should listen to him.
I worded it poorly but he fixed that for me.
design the locking mechanism into it for those flip up caps to not pop off. I don't care particularly if they're included with the scope, I'll just Amazon some after I get my scope.
the more I look at them leather caps though...
maybe I'll just throw a tracking chip in there, that's pretty bad ass. be even better if it looked that cool but was a flip up option, built directly into the scope
don't listen to me, I don't know stuff and things.

 

[Onebadstang16]

@Onebadstang16 is absolutely right. me thinks you should listen to him.
I worded it poorly but he fixed that for me.
design the locking mechanism into the objective bell for those flip up caps to not pop off. I don't care particularly if they're included with the scope, I'll just Amazon some after I get my scope.

The scope bell isn’t to much of an issue as most of the sets come with a ring that just screws into the sunchade attachment location, however having an adapter piece that has to be added to the eyepiece is less than ideal. I’d like to see March machine the design into the eye piece assembly like zco and theta have done so there is no additional adapter.

 

[Cody S]

anybody know a distributor/dealer who maybe i can call and work out a deal for a couple hundo off msrp? or dealer with a promo code.
I know i shouldn't ask for such things but I'm poor rn, economy is shit.

 

[Onebadstang16]

anybody know a distributor/dealer who maybe i can call and work out a deal for a couple hundo off msrp? or dealer with a promo code.
I know i shouldn't ask for such things but I'm poor rn, economy is shit.

At this time production is estimated to happen around Jan and availability will be March, just sell one of those “other” scopes lol.

This isn’t official but just what I know currently, officially I’m sure March will post the production timeline.

 

[Cody S]

aw darn, I had hoped it was right around the corner. but the heart wants what it wants so I guess I'll wait a minute.

 

[TheOE800]

anybody know a distributor/dealer who maybe i can call and work out a deal for a couple hundo off msrp? or dealer with a promo code.
I know i shouldn't ask for such things but I'm poor rn, economy is shit.

Euro might. I’d check if they’d do a special order with Shuriken turrets myself, but I have to say my appetite for owning buying another $4K+ scope is low, owning buying Thetas killed my budget and desire to continue spending.