March GENISIS .... The Pinnacle Of Optics!!

[carbonbased]

By Christ there are some immature "Cockheads" on here!!

Ok, if you haven’t done a tall target test, that’s ok. Just say, “No.” No harm, no foul.

You can then explain why, or not. Like, “No, I haven’t run a TT test yet. But so far, when I dial I hit exactly where I want. I know that’s not the same thing as a TT test, and maybe I should run one.”

Right now an analogue of your and Tokay’s discussion goes like this:

W: “The meal I just made is amazing.”
T: “What did you make?”
W: “It’s amazing.”
T: “I know, but what did you make?”
W: “It’s amazing, I tell you, friggin’ amazing.”
T: “wut?”

Hopefully you see why you’re getting a bit of pushback. Don’t take this the wrong way.

 

[ohiofarmer]

Can I just say the march scope has to be one of the fugliest scopes I have ever seen since the old us optics scopes..... Like was that a requirement haha

When form follows function…

 

[Huskydriver]

When form follows function…

I guess..... Has anyone done the NF tracking test on one yet posted above

 

[carbonbased]

I'll just leave this here.

You know, at about 1:26 when he dials back down from 10mil to zero, the tracking shifts left. Then right before he hits zero, it shifts back.

?

Is it because the whole scope shifts when he dials? Or is it a tracking issue?

It doesn’t look like he uses the little clamps on the fixture either.

And he should smack area around the parallax and windage turret. That’s where the erector is (I think). I own a NF NX8; I don’t hate NF. But I don’t blindly buy these types of “Smack’em Yack’em” tests either.

 

[Convex]

"Did you try installing MD disk on your Genesis? It should help with mirage.
(https://www.longrangesupply.com/store4/index.php?route=product/product&path=34&product_id=2486 but it's included in Genesis package, so you should already have it.)".........



Yes, equivalent to the closing down of an iris diaphragm of a lens, this is in fact how they "stopped down" on the Petzval lens circa 150 yrs. ago from James Petzval before the advent of the iris diaphragm.

A recently machined set.

https://www.dpreview.com/files/p/E~articles/3428107727/stops.jpeg

Difference was instead of screwing these on the front acc. thread of a scope, they were inserted into the barrel of the optic.

 

[wooferocau]

Did you try installing MD disk on your Genesis? It should help with mirage.
(https://www.longrangesupply.com/store4/index.php?route=product/product&path=34&product_id=2486 but it's included in Genesis package, so you should already have it.)

Will give that a go....thanks..

 

[Convex]

BTW the one w/no hole in it isn't for Ray Charles, it's to fill the slit on the lens barrel to keep dust out of the lens when not in use.

The MD disk from March cutting down the light entering the scope by 50% is closing down 1 stop.

 

[Gil P.]

You know, at about 1:26 when he dials back down from 10mil to zero, the tracking shifts left. Then right before he hits zero, it shifts back.

?

Is it because the whole scope shifts when he dials? Or is it a tracking issue?

It doesn’t look like he uses the little clamps on the fixture either.

And he should smack area around the parallax and windage turret. That’s where the erector is (I think). I own a NF NX8; I don’t hate NF. But I don’t blindly buy these types of “Smack’em Yack’em” tests either.

8541 tactical did a video on this as well, except the scope didn't track vertically.

 

[Gil P.]

 

[carbonbased]

Great day today...Had a lot of fun at 1500yds with a few toys, and scrutinised a few optics as well.

A young friend of mine tried out his DT HTI "Covert" 50BMG ( 20" barrel carbon wrapped" at 1500 yds......it did extremely well.

Looked through a lot of optics at the 1500yds mark !!!......early this morning was beautiful , but mirage kicked in once the ground heated up.

We all agreed 3 stood out... ZCO , Tangent and March..

The Tangent is superb when it comes to mitigating Mirage!!! Nothing touches it in this aspect!!

As far as sharpness/Focus.....the Tangent and ZCO are a lot closer than some would think........you really are splitting hairs..
Everyone today ...agreed the March bested both the ZCO and Tangent in sharpness/focus.

The March rules for contrast/brightness and depth....again both ZCO and Tangent are "close" ...the ZCO is a tad brighter than the Tangent .

Reticles... personal choice........Tangent Gen3XR Fine is "MY" favourite.

Absolutely rapt in the March Genesis performance , The 6-60 will be staying on my Desert tech HTI and the Genesis Mini 4-40 will be replacing the Tangent currently on my Desert Tech SRS A2.

Few Pics...

I see you’re using a VEO PA-65 smartphone adapter for your spotter.

Amazon product ASIN B083QSD8HQ
I suggest buying a better adapter. I did a mixed hands-on review and overview here, if you’re interested. I think the Ollin or PhoneSkope are the winners, but you might have different criteria than me. The MagView looks good as well.

 

[wooferocau]

Early this morning took the opportunity to get a few shots at 1200yds with the 375ct and the March....
Had several sub 5" groups .....40x is very nice to use....... before the sun breaks and warms up the ground and mirage requires you to dial down the power.

 

[carbonbased]

Early this morning took the opportunity to get a few shots at 1200yds with the 375ct and the March....
Had several sub 5" groups .....40x is very nice to use....... before the sun breaks and warms up the ground and mirage requires you to dial down the power.

That’s pretty neat. Nice shooting. I wish I had a spot like that to shoot.

How is that scope made in regards to sealing? Like dust, etc, or to keep the inert gas in there.

And to confirm, when shooting out a long ways with the regular scopes dialed out near their extremes, you’ve found that the Genesis is sharper, brighter, and has more contrast than Tangent and ZCO. But the Tangent is better at cutting through mirage. Is all that correctly summarized?

 

[wooferocau]

The scope appears to be very well made.....the rubber dust boots are only an added precaution ( Stuart from BRT informed me of this). They can actually be removed if you don't like them asetically.

And...yes I find the March the best optic I have used for sharpness and contrast.

 

[Islas82]

I'll just leave this here.

Sigh….NF once again proving its superiority over ALL.

 

[wooferocau]

Our back paddocks allow up to 2500yds in the spot seen in the above images....and further over 4000yds is possible..

 

[carbonbased]

Sigh….NF once again proving its superiority over ALL.

Uh, did you read this?

 

[Islas82]

Uh, did you read this?

I did….FAKE NEWS

 

[carbonbased]

I did….FAKE NEWS

fAkE nEWs? Don’t go all -show on me now.

Maybe there’s a different explanation other than scope tracking, but here you go. Screen grabs from video.

Vertical stadia seems parallel to collimator as it tracks downwards, so I don’t think it’s the scope shifting in the machine. But hey, I’m no optical engineer.

Looks…odd, however.

 

[Islas82]

View attachment 8068069View attachment 8068070View attachment 8068072

fAkE nEWs? Don’t go all -show on me now.

Maybe there’s a different explanation other than scope tracking, but here you go. Screen grabs from video.

Vertical stadia seems parallel to collimator as it tracks downwards, so I don’t think it’s the scope shifting in the machine. But hey, I’m no optical engineer.

Looks…odd, however.

You guys are all so predictable man that was just a troll trap and here your are. I own a NF 7-35 and it tracks fine, I’ll make sure to go through my phone photos to post pictures of a proper tracking test for that other dick head demanding proof lol. I have owned ZCO and TT before and they’re great scopes I just love posting shit about NF to get mofos triggered.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

You know, at about 1:26 when he dials back down from 10mil to zero, the tracking shifts left. Then right before he hits zero, it shifts back.

?

Is it because the whole scope shifts when he dials? Or is it a tracking issue?

It doesn’t look like he uses the little clamps on the fixture either.

And he should smack area around the parallax and windage turret. That’s where the erector is (I think). I own a NF NX8; I don’t hate NF. But I don’t blindly buy these types of “Smack’em Yack’em” tests either.

I appears to be a camera alignment issue and is repeated similarly in the other video posted except you can see it corrected as he 'sets' the scope in the mount.

Can you do a similar video except with the March? I'd like like to see it beat on four sides and the objective lens for a week at S.H.O.T. to see how it holds up. NOBODY claimed NF has the best glass but most people know it can be beat, dropped, used as a hammer or a shovel and still track. Can the March or Quigley Ford do the same? Money talks, bullshit walks...

 

[carbonbased]

You guys are all so predictable man that was just a troll trap and here your are. I own a NF 7-35 and it tracks fine, I’ll make sure to go through my phone photos to post pictures of a proper tracking test for that other dick head demanding proof lol. I have owned ZCO and TT before and they’re great scopes I just love posting shit about NF to get mofos triggered.

Hoo boy, you sure got me! Wow. That sure smarts. Golly!

 

[carbonbased]

I appears to be a camera alignment issue and is repeated similarly in the other video posted except you can see it corrected as he 'sets' the scope in the mount.

Can you do a similar video except with the March? I'd like like to see it beat on four sides and the objective lens for a week at S.H.O.T. to see how it holds up. NOBODY claimed NF has the best glass but most people know it can be beat, dropped, used as a hammer or a shovel and still track. Can the March or Quigley Ford do the same? Money talks, bullshit walks...

I revere your excellent posts in the Motivational thread, buddy! And the Genesis would fall apart like an old crippled hooker if slapped around like that NF. First one hairy tit would fly off, then the greasy wig, the fake eyeball, the other tit, the merkin…

Apparently one can bobble the whole Genesis elevation assembly by hand (watched a Mark & Sam vid).

Not really buying your explanation on the vid I posted, however. The scope is in the assembly for some time before the dial was twiddled. But I’m not a NF hater, I merely THIRST FOR JUSTICE.

No, seriously, I’m siding with koshkin’s statements saying most top scope makers have similar warranty return rates.

I strongly suspect marketing of any sort, even with brands I like (like NF).

 

[Jefe's Dope]

I revere your excellent posts in the Motivational thread, buddy! And the Genesis would fall apart like an old crippled hooker if slapped around like that NF. First one hairy tit would fly off, then the greasy wig, the fake eyeball, the other tit, the merkin…

Apparently one can bobble the whole Genesis elevation assembly by hand (watched a Mark & Sam vid).

Not really buying your explanation on the vid I posted, however. The scope is in the assembly for some time before the dial was twiddled. But I’m not a NF hater, I merely THIRST FOR JUSTICE.

No, seriously, I’m siding with koshkin’s statements saying most top scope makers have similar warranty return rates.

I strongly suspect marketing of any sort, even with brands I like (like NF).

I was told once that Vortex has a lower return rate than most, if not all, scope manufactures and that they sell by a large margin more scopes than anyone.

If NF was having a tracking issue at S.H.O.T. and it was showing up on video, I'd assume they'd pull that parlor trick lickety split.

Here's some hard numbers in regards to tracking. March isn't on the list. Kahles appears to be the clear winner.

Scope Tracking Test Results 2020

Follow Sniper's Hide and pick up the latest information on all things precision rifle related. Sniper's Hide Training is for the serious tactical marksman.

www.snipershide.com

 

[carbonbased]

I was told once that Vortex has a lower return rate than most, if not all, scope manufactures and that they sell by a large margin more scopes than anyone.

If NF was having a tracking issue at S.H.O.T. and it was showing up on video, I'd assume they'd pull that parlor trick lickety split.

Here's some hard numbers in regards to tracking. March isn't on the list. Kahles appears to be the clear winner.

Scope Tracking Test Results 2020

Follow Sniper's Hide and pick up the latest information on all things precision rifle related. Sniper's Hide Training is for the serious tactical marksman.

www.snipershide.com

Yeah, I’ve seen that. Isn’t that a good list? Shame that it was stopped (at least publicly). It’s these types of more dispassionate testing that make an impact on me.

That ATACR 5-25 was not as “good” as many scopes (Razor, ahem), which is my point. Don’t buy into hype.

It’s worth noting, however, that the chart comes with the disclaimer, “We see this test as a field method and consider 2% of 100% to within spec.” (That’s why I wrote “good”, in quotes, above).

And thus, most of the scopes on that page are good enough (for me, anyway, and it seems also for Frank/Taylor too).

 

[Islas82]

I revere your excellent posts in the Motivational thread, buddy! And the Genesis would fall apart like an old crippled hooker if slapped around like that NF. First one hairy tit would fly off, then the greasy wig, the fake eyeball, the other tit, the merkin…

Apparently one can bobble the whole Genesis elevation assembly by hand (watched a Mark & Sam vid).

Not really buying your explanation on the vid I posted, however. The scope is in the assembly for some time before the dial was twiddled. But I’m not a NF hater, I merely THIRST FOR JUSTICE.

No, seriously, I’m siding with koshkin’s statements saying most top scope makers have similar warranty return rates.

I strongly suspect marketing of any sort, even with brands I like (like NF).

My first ZCO wouldn’t click when dialing down on elevation. They took care of it in 3 days and I even got a hat. Every manufacturer has issues at some point or another it’s just about how they deal with it.

 

[wooferocau]

That’s pretty neat. Nice shooting. I wish I had a spot like that to shoot.

This is my 2500yd gully... Just 10min over the back paddocks..

 

[carbonbased]

This is my 2500yd gully... Just 10min over the back paddocks..

I’ve got at least 20 yds in my backyard. Haha

 

[Denys]

I revere your excellent posts in the Motivational thread, buddy! And the Genesis would fall apart like an old crippled hooker if slapped around like that NF. First one hairy tit would fly off, then the greasy wig, the fake eyeball, the other tit, the merkin…

Apparently one can bobble the whole Genesis elevation assembly by hand (watched a Mark & Sam vid).

Not really buying your explanation on the vid I posted, however. The scope is in the assembly for some time before the dial was twiddled. But I’m not a NF hater, I merely THIRST FOR JUSTICE.

No, seriously, I’m siding with koshkin’s statements saying most top scope makers have similar warranty return rates.

I strongly suspect marketing of any sort, even with brands I like (like NF).

I'm not sure why the bolded statement above would indicate an issue to you. This is the principle of operation for the Genesis. If you check the patent application for the mechanism, you can see there are, IIRC, two very stout springs in the mechanism for windage and elevation adjustment. Instead of the springs being internal to the riflescope, holding the erector tube, they are outside of the main tube but in the external housing. When you dial the knobs, you're essentially pushing the main tube against the opposite spring. I remember the chief designer from DEON showing off the Genesis at SHOT 2019, explaining the mechanism and pushing one end of the main tube away from the center line. It doesn't "bobble", it moves and when you release it, it goes right back to where it was. When you understand how it works, it's quite interesting and very precise. And very solid.

The main tube itself is sealed and the riflescope is argon-filled.

 

[Convex]

First off, I keep reminding myself to do a tracking test, which I haven't gotten around to.

After perusing this discussion I contacted March, re how they test their scopes, and after getting a response from them, I'll take my time getting around to doing that.

I don't have their permission to upload their email here, so out of courtesy I won't do that, but I'll go ahead and give the "gist" of what they had to say about their testing.


The impact testing done at NF is done at Deon.

March doesn't do spot checks, they they test all their scopes.

They do a tracking test to confirm that the reticle is moving without deviating from the width of the line.

They then do a box test; they hold the scope stationary and turn the elevation/windage dial 10 clicks to the right, 10 clicks down, 10 clicks to the left, and 10 clicks up until a square is drawn. Finally, if the reticle returns to the starting position, it is accurate. If the reticle deviates from the starting position the scope fails the test.

And they included this reference page

Impact & drop test for All March Scopes | Quality, Factory | MARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design CorporationMARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design Corporation

MARCH Scopes Official Site

marchscopes.com

MOST IMPORTANTLY March said this....


"DEON also performs both tracking test and box test, and only scopes that pass with high accuracy are shipped."

 

[carbonbased]

I'm not sure why the bolded statement above would indicate an issue to you. This is the principle of operation for the Genesis. If you check the patent application for the mechanism, you can see there are, IIRC, two very stout springs in the mechanism for windage and elevation adjustment. Instead of the springs being internal to the riflescope, holding the erector tube, they are outside of the main tube but in the external housing. When you dial the knobs, you're essentially pushing the main tube against the opposite spring. I remember the chief designer from DEON showing off the Genesis at SHOT 2019, explaining the mechanism and pushing one end of the main tube away from the center line. It doesn't "bobble", it moves and when you release it, it goes right back to where it was. When you understand how it works, it's quite interesting and very precise. And very solid.

The main tube itself is sealed and the riflescope is argon-filled.

Oh, sorry, check the post I was replying to by @Jefe's Dope for context.

He was replying to me and saying NF has good tracking after being beat on and asked, “Can March…do the same?”

I think he thought I was comparing the two brands, specifically an Atacr and the Genesis, or putting the Genesis on a pedestal or something.

So I pointed out, in a manner of sorts, that the two scopes are certainly not comparable in all ways. Certainly not in a rough treatment sort of way. And I inferred, poorly I guess, that I am not comparing them.

I wasn’t denigrating March or the Genesis at all. I think both scopes are cool.

Sometimes I think people are so used to fanboys that if someone criticizes a scope (say), the poster is immediately assigned to some sort of unfair bias or attack.

I’m sorry if I can across this way? In my case, nothing can be further from the truth.

 

[jbuck88]

Not being locked down and torquing it to one side while twisting the turret seems to reasonably explain the offset while it's moving then settled in when he was done.

Then again maybe it's magic.

 

[carbonbased]

Not being locked down and torquing it to one side while twisting the turret seems to reasonably explain the offset while it's moving then settled in when he was done.

Then again maybe it's magic.

Magic. I like that!

 

[wooferocau]

Patent Gimbal system of Genesis Scopes enabling incredible large elevation travel amount and the utmost optical quality | Quality, Factory | MARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design CorporationMARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design Corporation

MARCH Scopes Official Site

marchscopes.com

For anyone that's interested..

 

[wooferocau]

.....

 

[Tokay444]

Patent Gimbal system of Genesis Scopes enabling incredible large elevation travel amount and the utmost optical quality | Quality, Factory | MARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design CorporationMARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design Corporation

MARCH Scopes Official Site

marchscopes.com

For anyone that's interested..

I'm still interested in the tall target test.

 

[Denys]

@carbonbased In my (feeble) defense, it's sometimes difficult to follow the various twists and turns in threads. It would help if I had some mind-reading ability but sadlyl, I have none. So I always try to be nice and respectful even when responding to blithering idiots.

Thankfully that was not the case here and so it was easy to do.

Thank you so much for setting me straight and in such a calm respectful fashion.

I have very limited experience with the Genesis as I've only ever handled the 6-60X56 at SHOT several years ago and played a little with a 4-40X52. One thing that struck me about the Genesis is that I wouldn't want to be struck by one. These riflescopes are built like absolute tanks, of the Abrams variety.

I'm following this thread, and learning more about them from someone who is using them.

 

[wooferocau]

I'm still interested in the tall target test.

Mate...You tell me "Exactly" what procedure you want me to do , and i will do my best to follow..

 

[wooferocau]

Its quite entertaining sometimes this place....

There is a wealth of VERY good, information and very knowledgeable people on here ..BUT !!! there are also MANY "Fanboys" and utter cockheads who jump onto "Joe Blogs" bandwagon and parrot speak never having seen ...let alone using the product they are so intent on ridiculing!!

I can...and have purchased ANY Optic or Rifle i choose....i only comment on what i own, or have used myself.....

I have absolutely NO brand loyalty.... i just use what i find performs the best for me..

 

[wooferocau]

A good friend of mine, was so impressed with the Genesis he just ordered one to replace his S&B 3-27 on his Desert Tech SRS...

 

[Emerson0311]

Seems counterintuitive to compare one scope at full mag to one at half mag and then determine the one at half mag to be better.

On the contrary, comparing at the same mag is the only way to go. Otherwise the lower max mag optic wouldn’t even be on the table.

 

[Tokay444]

On the contrary, comparing at the same mag is the only way to go. Otherwise the lower max mag optic wouldn’t even be on the table.

Not sure why the lower mag one was ever on the table. Can you compare them both at 60x?

 

[Emerson0311]

Not sure why the lower mag one was ever on the table. Can you compare them both at 60x?

That is the question for sure. I suppose the most central question is whether or not 60X improves hit performance? Does March 30X deal with mirage better than the other one at 25X?

 

[carbonbased]

Its quite entertaining sometimes this place....

There is a wealth of VERY good, information and very knowledgeable people on here ..BUT !!! there are also MANY "Fanboys" and utter cockheads who jump onto "Joe Blogs" bandwagon and parrot speak never having seen ...let alone using the product they are so intent on ridiculing!!

I can...and have purchased ANY Optic or Rifle i choose....i only comment on what i own, or have used myself.....

I have absolutely NO brand loyalty.... i just use what i find performs the best for me..

I’ll attempt an explanation and also maybe make the peace.

Around here people have a keen sense of when someone might be full of it because there’s been a lot of blowhards traveling through lo’ these many years (and I haven’t been here for most of them). Lots of boasting, strange facts, even stranger personalities.

Check out the Legendary Thread for a collection of hilarity. Pretty funny.

So when you didn’t respond with a:

• “Yes” with perhaps a pic of said test, or a
• “No” with a reason why not (hitting what I want to hit, no time, etc) or a
• “No, what’s that?” with an indication of an openness to learn

…a switch was tripped and rowdy stuff is gonna happen because it’s fun and the Hide doesn not suffer fools gladly.

HOWEVER, it sounds like it was a false positive? Go with the flow and with an open mind. Pretend you are in a foreign bar with lots of gruff military dudes (I’m not one, but you get the idea).

 

[Tokay444]

That is the question for sure. I suppose the most central question is whether or not 60X improves hit performance? Does March 30X deal with mirage better than the other one at 25X?

I’m sure whatever the quantifiable answer is, op’s response will be, “trust me, bro.”

 

[Tokay444]

Its quite entertaining sometimes this place....

There is a wealth of VERY good, information and very knowledgeable people on here ..BUT !!! there are also MANY "Fanboys" and utter cockheads who jump onto "Joe Blogs" bandwagon and parrot speak never having seen ...let alone using the product they are so intent on ridiculing!!

I can...and have purchased ANY Optic or Rifle i choose....i only comment on what i own, or have used myself.....

I have absolutely NO brand loyalty.... i just use what i find performs the best for me..

Ironic you of all people calling anyone else a fanboy.

 

[Tokay444]

I posed a very relevant and easily quantifiable question. The response was, “trust me, bro.” But we’re fanboys and “cockheads”. Whatever the fuck that is.

 

[Tokay444]

Mate...You tell me "Exactly" what procedure you want me to do , and i will do my best to follow..

A standard tall target test will suffice.

 

[wooferocau]

Mate...I have tried to be socialable to you...but!

So...you have compared and used all the optics in my thread ?

 

[carbonbased]

I’m sure whatever the quantifiable answer is, op’s response will be, “trust me, bro.”

Yes, @wooferocau this is want you do not want to say here. Imagine hitting a rough and somewhat seedy bar near a war zone. It’s filled mainly with mil guys, very smart engineers, cops, and competitive shooters.

You get into a discussion with some of them. A decently high percentage are probably waaaaay more knowledgeable than the average shooter.

Blowing them off, saying “trust me”, or some such is gonna flip us into the “Barroom Blitz” beast mode, man. It just is. Doesn’t matter who you are in your hometown, how much money you have, etc.



You seem like a nice gent. Take it easy and things might work out.

 

[carbonbased]

Or:

Think of a western movie. A stranger flings open the saloon’s door, confidently strides to the bar, and slaps his money down. The stranger chugs down his brew, slams his glass down, and confidently issues a fact to the whole room.

We here will take as a challenge and ask some confirming questions. Usually nice at first, especially if you’re interesting.

If answers are not forthcoming, things escalate, get funny, beer mugs are thrown, the piano man is tossed through a window, hookers scream, shots fired, sheriff gets a posse together etc.

Lol good times

Just trying to give you some context. It’s not like, say, an audio forum.