In the market for a scope for a 260 Remington. I'm looking for something in the 20-25X max range. I want illumination and it must be front focal. In the running is the Vortex Razor or even a Nightforce. I've looked at some March scopes and they don't look bad but more expensive. What is everyone's take on a march scope. If I'm going to spend that kind of money should I just look at a Schmitt Bender? I know from some local benchrest shooters they speak very highly of March. Just give me your suggestions. Ill have the money for a Razor but not sure how much more I can get so it may not even be an option.
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Rifle Scopes March Scopes?
- Thread starter precision308
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Nothing wrong with the Razor or Nightforce. You seems to be waffling between upper mid level and top tier, alpha scopes. I own or have owned all scopes you mention. The Razor is a very good scope...as are NF. When you bring up March and Schmidt, you are stepping up to the top tier scopes on the market. I currently use Schmidt 5-25 (have several) March FX FFP 5-40x56 (have two) and Premier (have a few). In the past two years I have spent too much money and time buying and using almost every optic on the market. Overall, in terms of repeatablity, durability, glass quality, etc., the Schmidt 5-25x56 is imho the best scope that exists for my style of shooting. That said, there are some aspects of many other top tier scope that are equal to the S&B. All of the scopes you mentioned are solid purchases. However, if you can swing the Schmidt then do so and you will not look back.
You asked a general question about March optics. The 3-24x42 FFP is a popular scope on here. I have used it and I do like many aspects of it. However, I prefer the 5-40x56 FFP. Glass quality is superb. Mechanically excellent. I suspect the March scopes will be durable but I have not used long enough to give full recommendation as to durability. That said, I have purchased two of the March FX's since the first one has been holding up just fine.
You asked a general question about March optics. The 3-24x42 FFP is a popular scope on here. I have used it and I do like many aspects of it. However, I prefer the 5-40x56 FFP. Glass quality is superb. Mechanically excellent. I suspect the March scopes will be durable but I have not used long enough to give full recommendation as to durability. That said, I have purchased two of the March FX's since the first one has been holding up just fine.
It will be several months before I purchase . Razor is the least I will do. I own a nightforce that I'm happy with but I would maybe try to step up from that. I dont like the illumination setup on the nightforce. I also have a bushnell dmr but I wish they were illuminated. If I can save enough I thought about the march or the s&b. Just didn't know if the s&b was worth 1400 more than the razor. That could buy me another bushnell dmr
As I previously stated, the Razor is a very good optic. Is the Schmidt worth $1,400 more than the Razor? IMHO, yes it absolutely is. Is the March? Same answer.
I have had two 10-60x52's & one 5-50x56 since they came out , my feelings have gone full circle as I've since sold the two 10-50's and replaced them with NXS's .
The glass is no better than NF and certainly not as good as S&B , zero stops are very poor but I like the MTR ret's and the turret design with having a hidden click between the graduation markings which is clearer to use .
My main gripe was when two scopes were ordered , 3-24x42 & a fixed 40x . Both scopes were so poor optically and the zoom was impossible to parallax by three different people . The fixed 40x had an MTR-1 ret which was supposed to have 1 MOA hash marks and when this was tested the tenth hash mark worked out to 11.5 inches at 100 yards !
On returning the scopes to Deon in Japan they said they had been checked and found to be perfect . I won't go into anymore detail on a forum but needless to say when they explained how they worked out their graduations for ranging it was simply laughable !
The glass is no better than NF and certainly not as good as S&B , zero stops are very poor but I like the MTR ret's and the turret design with having a hidden click between the graduation markings which is clearer to use .
My main gripe was when two scopes were ordered , 3-24x42 & a fixed 40x . Both scopes were so poor optically and the zoom was impossible to parallax by three different people . The fixed 40x had an MTR-1 ret which was supposed to have 1 MOA hash marks and when this was tested the tenth hash mark worked out to 11.5 inches at 100 yards !
On returning the scopes to Deon in Japan they said they had been checked and found to be perfect . I won't go into anymore detail on a forum but needless to say when they explained how they worked out their graduations for ranging it was simply laughable !
I have looked through several fixed power March scopes (older models) and the glass was noticeably of lesser quality than my two current March FX FFP 5-40x56. I have had numerous NF NXS scopes. Sold all of them. I currently own 8 of the S&B 5-25x56, 4 Premier Heritage 5-25x56, USO 5-25x56, and two March FX 5-40x56. The March scopes have superb glass and gives up nothing to my other scope. Noticeably better than USO.
For an expert opinion on March glass quality, consult Ilya Koshkin. He has reviewed March glass and I believe owns some as well. March scopes are alpha glass and as good as any of the other alpha scopes.
+1. I keep moving my March around to different rifles, as I don't really want to shoot with anything else. Trying to figure out a way to buy another.
I shoot alot of fifty caliber weapons and have seen every scope fail on them.Some more than others.My march hasn't failed yet,and others who have March scopes on their fifties are in the same boat.Same with My MK4 LRT's.They've been on many 50 cals and are still holding up too.I care about glass quality,but durability is my #1 factor for a scope.Usually you don't get both in one package,but a March scope is as close to it as you can get.Save your pennies and scour the classifieds for a deal.
The whole point of the forum is for us to share our thoughts and experience and for me to talk to some guy who has reviewed 'March Glass' is not going to change what I have experienced with their scopes .
We will all have different requirements in a scope , for me I need SFP in MOA and glass quality would come way down the list behind durability , return to zero , ret choice , internal travel etc . I believe but obviously can't prove that I've never shot anything from just a pure optics point that I couldn't have seen with a £200 cheap scope .
I'm not completely against March as I still have one of my three left and it does what I want but if I have my time again I would not be going down that road .
I don't know if anything has changed since I purchased my three March but at that time they were giving a five year warranty , now there's confidence for you !
I'm glad that others are happy with March as life would be boring if we all agreed on everything .
We will all have different requirements in a scope , for me I need SFP in MOA and glass quality would come way down the list behind durability , return to zero , ret choice , internal travel etc . I believe but obviously can't prove that I've never shot anything from just a pure optics point that I couldn't have seen with a £200 cheap scope .
I'm not completely against March as I still have one of my three left and it does what I want but if I have my time again I would not be going down that road .
I don't know if anything has changed since I purchased my three March but at that time they were giving a five year warranty , now there's confidence for you !
I'm glad that others are happy with March as life would be boring if we all agreed on everything .
I've had a March F 3-24 and March FX 5-40 for over a year. The 5-40 sits on my MRAD 338LM and have shot over 1000 rds with no issues. Glass is great and other advantages include size and weight, low turrets with crisp clicks, easy (no tool) zero stop, repeatability and I believe 28mil elevation in 34mm tube. The 3-24 has all the same features in a 30mm tube. Great for distance in 20 or 30 MOA mount. Negatives are high cost of illuminated versions, but total package cheaper than most other premium scopes. Paralex adjustment can be difficult! Eye box can also be tight on maximum power. 0.05mil clicks (5-40) can be confusing when all my other scopes, including the 3-24 have 0.1mil clicks. Both will focus down below 10 yds! Mirage can be fierce above 20X, but higher magnification helps my crappy 65 year old eyes and I don't need to lug around a spotting scope. Kelbly has said many times, he will honor the March 5 year warranty long as long as you own the scope, surpassing the Deon warranty limit.
Just got a new Vortex Razor HD 5-20X with EBR-2B reticle and love it. Everything I need in a scope plus illumination for about $2000. 35mm tube limits your mount choices, but works fine on my DTA SRS in Sphur mount. Lifetime, no fault, transferrable warranty. You can run over it your truck and get it replaced.
I also like S&B, but only with DT turrets and old technology without significant updates. The company seems to be relying on their reputation rather than innovation!
Have a Nightforce BEAST on order and hope I'm not disappointed, but I'm sure it will sell easily, if I don't like it.
Have heard great things about Steiner, Kahles and Premier, but have no experience with any of these.
Good Luck and Good Shooting with whatever you choose. You just won't know if it's for you until you get something and try it!
Just got a new Vortex Razor HD 5-20X with EBR-2B reticle and love it. Everything I need in a scope plus illumination for about $2000. 35mm tube limits your mount choices, but works fine on my DTA SRS in Sphur mount. Lifetime, no fault, transferrable warranty. You can run over it your truck and get it replaced.
I also like S&B, but only with DT turrets and old technology without significant updates. The company seems to be relying on their reputation rather than innovation!
Have a Nightforce BEAST on order and hope I'm not disappointed, but I'm sure it will sell easily, if I don't like it.
Have heard great things about Steiner, Kahles and Premier, but have no experience with any of these.
Good Luck and Good Shooting with whatever you choose. You just won't know if it's for you until you get something and try it!
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I recently got a March 3-24, has 10Y parallax!!!, nice scope with excellent feel/action of all controls, love the size and weight, eyebox is nice, glass isn't as great as I thought it would be but better than most...my S&B 5-25 is far superior, FML1 reticle- ENORMOUS NUMERS 1mil off the vertical = huge fail IMO.
S&B 5-25... WOW!
I have a March 3-24x42 FFP.
Up to 12 power or so it is better optically than the Steiner 5-25x56 I currently own or the S&B 5-25x56 I used to own.
Color neutral, great resolution, and bright, CA free.
Great turrets, easiest ZS to set on the market.
Above 18x or so the March gets a little dark; can't fight physics, a 42mm objective can only pass so much light. It's still useable, but the 56mm objective of a Steiner or S&B or the NF ATACR my friend showed up with the other day has nearly twice the surface area of the March and at 25x they rule. They also weigh 60% again as much as the compact March.
Joe
Up to 12 power or so it is better optically than the Steiner 5-25x56 I currently own or the S&B 5-25x56 I used to own.
Color neutral, great resolution, and bright, CA free.
Great turrets, easiest ZS to set on the market.
Above 18x or so the March gets a little dark; can't fight physics, a 42mm objective can only pass so much light. It's still useable, but the 56mm objective of a Steiner or S&B or the NF ATACR my friend showed up with the other day has nearly twice the surface area of the March and at 25x they rule. They also weigh 60% again as much as the compact March.
Joe
Thanks for the info guys this is great. I've looked at the reticles of s&b steiner and march. I don't like them as much as the ebr2b that vortex offers in the razor. This gun will be shoot on a 1200yd range and I make a lot of shots without dialing. Think the holds of the ebr2b would be handy.
Hope this question is ok in this thread. How do you buy a March scope? Their website says there is only one distributor in the country. Google did not show any vendors for these scopes. None of the Hide vendors have them. How and where did you guys buy yours?
I mainly run Premier, but I've had damn near everything to include Tasco, NF, S&B etc etc.
My 3-24 March is every bit the equal to a Bender or Premier in terms of optical quality.
That is not to say they are equal.
Optics are a huge compromise. For example, the engineer must choose between resolution and contrast. If he wants the system to have better resolution, he must trade off contrast.
It is obvious the March engineers chose to favor resolution with the 3-24 F model, as compared to the superior contrast of the Heritage from Premier.
Different eyes prefer different things.
My 3-24 March is every bit the equal to a Bender or Premier in terms of optical quality.
That is not to say they are equal.
Optics are a huge compromise. For example, the engineer must choose between resolution and contrast. If he wants the system to have better resolution, he must trade off contrast.
It is obvious the March engineers chose to favor resolution with the 3-24 F model, as compared to the superior contrast of the Heritage from Premier.
Different eyes prefer different things.
Why aren't there any stocking dealers for March scopes?
They must not want to chase the US market.
They must not want to chase the US market.
Interesting point on resolution vs contrast.
For a long range day use scope I would take better resolution.
For a low light hunting scope I would take contrast.
For a long range day use scope I would take better resolution.
For a low light hunting scope I would take contrast.
Ok, if say one was looking to get a March scope to add to a collection, for a medium caliber weapon and money is not a concern, which model do you feel would be a good overall choice? Maybe that's too broad of a question. Just curious what some of you would pick.
I never really thought of it that way before and I can see what you are saying.
A few days ago I did a side by side with four of my scopes comparing in every way I could think of. I know my opinion is subjective but as far as the image quality went my March 3-24 was much closer to my SWFA 3-15 than it was to my S&B, I dare say not even in the same league. My wife was there with me and she agreed.
Now...after having said that, I own now and have owned before, scopes of the same brand, make and model that have a difference in image quality-"among other things". So in other words your March 3-24 might kill my S&B in the glass department but my M3-24 just doesn't, or my S&B might have a batch of super duper glass in it and perhaps my March's glass was ground by some Japanese girl on the rag, who knows???
In fact I used to own a U?? that had downright poor glass in it, maybe the worst I've seen, and sending it back didn't help much either. On the other hand I've looked through other examples of that brand and the glass was GTG, just gotta keep a phone book handy in case Sh!t ends up on the reticle.
As opposed to what, S&B's 2 year warranty?
Personally never purchased anything with the warranty as a prime consideration, if this was a consideration we'd all be driving Kia's
Owned S&B's, NF, Zeiss etc. Have 3 Marches and never felt that March's were inferior or lacking and they are avoiding the stupidity of adjusters/knobs the size of bean cans - what's that all about - anyone??
Bit off topic I actually always find the claims on Nightforce's optics a bit strange? My first comp at TacPro put me next to a guy with a NSX 5.5-22x56, in the low light stage he could not resolve the target let alone his shooter number, a quick look through my S&B 4-16x50 and was amazed.
Brgds Terry
' they are avoiding the stupidity of adjusters/knobs the size of bean cans '
Hmmm , Well i too have never purchased with a prime consideration being either warranty or sheer optical performance & never owning an S&B i can't comment on their warranty but i'd like to think when spending thousands these items kind of go hand in hand .
I bought into the March for their claim that on whatever power you shot on your point of impact wouldn't change and i liked the MTR-1 Ret for use in F Class on 40x using the hash marks and being able to call off corrections between the marking disc and the 'V' bull ( x )
All our eyes are different and thats why we can't say that one scope or any pair of binoculars etc are better than an other , we can only say whats best through our own eyes .
Through my eyes the best scope from an optical point was a Swarovski and closely followed by an S&B but i don't own either as they don't tick enough boxes for my needs .
There are advantages to all scopes as i remember being in a hide with a friend who had a 72mm Zeiss and that amazed me how he could see on 20x when i could only get to 12x on an NXS and FOV when shooting it on a McQueens 200 & 300 yards he had around 5x more mag than me viewing the same wall .
Pick a scope that suits the needs of each rifle as ' one scope doesn't fit all '
Hmmm , Well i too have never purchased with a prime consideration being either warranty or sheer optical performance & never owning an S&B i can't comment on their warranty but i'd like to think when spending thousands these items kind of go hand in hand .
I bought into the March for their claim that on whatever power you shot on your point of impact wouldn't change and i liked the MTR-1 Ret for use in F Class on 40x using the hash marks and being able to call off corrections between the marking disc and the 'V' bull ( x )
All our eyes are different and thats why we can't say that one scope or any pair of binoculars etc are better than an other , we can only say whats best through our own eyes .
Through my eyes the best scope from an optical point was a Swarovski and closely followed by an S&B but i don't own either as they don't tick enough boxes for my needs .
There are advantages to all scopes as i remember being in a hide with a friend who had a 72mm Zeiss and that amazed me how he could see on 20x when i could only get to 12x on an NXS and FOV when shooting it on a McQueens 200 & 300 yards he had around 5x more mag than me viewing the same wall .
Pick a scope that suits the needs of each rifle as ' one scope doesn't fit all '
When March first came out with their 10-60 x 52 I bought two from Kelbly's and had them shipped over here to the UK. They were bought "on faith" as I clearly had not had the chance to check them before doing so. They had good "write ups" at the time. Of the two I got one worked reliably and well. It was the first I tested. At the time they didn't do a sunshade! This was early doors for March and I had to get an adaptor done to take my NF Sunshade. As a result of only having one custom adaptor the other scope sat in the box as a spare. The scope I used tracked reliably but the quality of the glass was dark on high power in good daylight. The range from 40x to 60x hardly got used because of the dimness created by going to these powers. Combine this with issues of not being able to identify my target at 1000 yards because the sight picture was too close to get a "tell" on your target number and increasing the risk of a cross shot - the extra power in the scope ( which initially was attractive as a buying reason ) proved to be ineffective and a waste.
The image darkened so much that hopes of seeing bullet holes at shorter distances for tactical comps also were dashed.
I sold this scope on to a guy in the 2009 World F Class Championships at Bisley who was desperate for a scope because his had been damaged in transit coming over from the States.
The scope tracked well and at 40x was as good as a NF/BR model in clarity but had a finer reticle and benefitted from 1/8 MOA clicks with 10 MOA on the turret so windage calls were easier to stay on top off than the NF/BR which has 6 MOA per complete revolution.
Having then got a sunshade for the second model ( they were making these by then ) out it came from the box and when tested on a sandbag for windage and elevation repeatability I was shocked that the reticle was sticking on windage movement. By this time we had a March distributor over here in the UK and he kindly sent it back to Japan for me. The report that came back was that the reticle was sticking but had been damaged by being fitted to a rifle with rings which had been tightened down too hard. The scope had never been mounted! At least not by me! The issue was fixed however under warranty and I got our distributor to move the scope on.
I certainly was not impressed by March's conclusions and report and all told was not satisfied with the quality of the glass. The glass isn't good enough to take the high powers offered in the scope so you can use them as you would hope to do.
A 3-24x scope is a different kettle of fish - but clearly some owners of these can see issues with the glass being used when compared to other scopes they own such as S&B.
They are a lightweight scope - so if weight is an issue then they may offer something of a solution where others cannot. They are popular over here for F/TR where rifle weight is at a premium. If the OP is shooting a .260 with a view to long range tactical comps or F Open comps the weight category for F/TR wouldn't apply and the more generous weight limits would have me looking for other options.
S&B have always been good for me. I have owned many. NF have won more medals in long range target shooting and Benchrest than any other scope. Not the same quality of glass but newer models have some improved claims on this front. Hensoldt/Zeiss also do some great glass. I have the Zeiss 6-24 x 72 solely for it's light gathering ability and FOV magnification advantage for Sniper/McQueens comps and it the best I have looked through.
For ultra long range the internal adjustment capacity of the Hensoldt and Zeiss and S&B's are not going to offer the elevation range of the Vortex or NF or LP Mk IV's or the early USO with external adjustment and here the amount of adjustment desired will affect your choice.
I have used all of the scopes mentioned above and despite great reputations I will only buy a scope now if I can go to a shop and check it before buying. Otherwise the hassle created if you end up with a bad example outweighs the "mail order" saving. The ability to compare side by side before paying your money is also a great asset.
Take a tripod and long lense V bag securely mounted to it and go outside and put the scope in place in the V of the bag and check the reticle for proper adjustment and see for yourself the image quality.
On a final note - I would rather have "one" great scope which I moved around alternative rifles than two or more mediocre scopes. These days there are some excellent quick release mounts which can help until you can afford the next purchase.
The image darkened so much that hopes of seeing bullet holes at shorter distances for tactical comps also were dashed.
I sold this scope on to a guy in the 2009 World F Class Championships at Bisley who was desperate for a scope because his had been damaged in transit coming over from the States.
The scope tracked well and at 40x was as good as a NF/BR model in clarity but had a finer reticle and benefitted from 1/8 MOA clicks with 10 MOA on the turret so windage calls were easier to stay on top off than the NF/BR which has 6 MOA per complete revolution.
Having then got a sunshade for the second model ( they were making these by then ) out it came from the box and when tested on a sandbag for windage and elevation repeatability I was shocked that the reticle was sticking on windage movement. By this time we had a March distributor over here in the UK and he kindly sent it back to Japan for me. The report that came back was that the reticle was sticking but had been damaged by being fitted to a rifle with rings which had been tightened down too hard. The scope had never been mounted! At least not by me! The issue was fixed however under warranty and I got our distributor to move the scope on.
I certainly was not impressed by March's conclusions and report and all told was not satisfied with the quality of the glass. The glass isn't good enough to take the high powers offered in the scope so you can use them as you would hope to do.
A 3-24x scope is a different kettle of fish - but clearly some owners of these can see issues with the glass being used when compared to other scopes they own such as S&B.
They are a lightweight scope - so if weight is an issue then they may offer something of a solution where others cannot. They are popular over here for F/TR where rifle weight is at a premium. If the OP is shooting a .260 with a view to long range tactical comps or F Open comps the weight category for F/TR wouldn't apply and the more generous weight limits would have me looking for other options.
S&B have always been good for me. I have owned many. NF have won more medals in long range target shooting and Benchrest than any other scope. Not the same quality of glass but newer models have some improved claims on this front. Hensoldt/Zeiss also do some great glass. I have the Zeiss 6-24 x 72 solely for it's light gathering ability and FOV magnification advantage for Sniper/McQueens comps and it the best I have looked through.
For ultra long range the internal adjustment capacity of the Hensoldt and Zeiss and S&B's are not going to offer the elevation range of the Vortex or NF or LP Mk IV's or the early USO with external adjustment and here the amount of adjustment desired will affect your choice.
I have used all of the scopes mentioned above and despite great reputations I will only buy a scope now if I can go to a shop and check it before buying. Otherwise the hassle created if you end up with a bad example outweighs the "mail order" saving. The ability to compare side by side before paying your money is also a great asset.
Take a tripod and long lense V bag securely mounted to it and go outside and put the scope in place in the V of the bag and check the reticle for proper adjustment and see for yourself the image quality.
On a final note - I would rather have "one" great scope which I moved around alternative rifles than two or more mediocre scopes. These days there are some excellent quick release mounts which can help until you can afford the next purchase.
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IMHO the problem is comparing a 42mm objective to a 50 or a 56 which are 42% and 78% larger respectively, which is asking a bit much of any glass don't you think?
Completly agree re. side by side comparison with your own eyes. Believe this is the method used by March UK, seems to work
T
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thanks everyone there's a lot of good information and opinions. after reading everything I think I may go with the vortex razor. I don't think that it's any better than the other ones but the extra money allows me to buy other equipment and reloading components. I think that the razor is a good enough optic to get the job done. Not to mention I am on somewhat on a budget and by purchasing a razor over one the others allows me to hit the range sooner. I also like the ebr-2b reticle. I think the vortex warranty is also very hard to beat and for someone like me who does not have very many scopes of this class this is very important because replacement is quick and hassle free.
Thanks
Thanks
I only know what I experience with my own eyes, that at lower powers where objective size and exit pupil play less of a limiting role, my March beats my S&B and Steiner 5-25x56 in resolution.
When Ilya Koshkin did his tactical scope comparison, multiple reviewers had the same conclusion.
I guess there's a lot of variation unit to unit and that Ilya and I got good ones.
Joe
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
When Ilya Koshkin did his tactical scope comparison, multiple reviewers had the same conclusion.
I guess there's a lot of variation unit to unit and that Ilya and I got good ones.
Joe
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
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