Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

[JRose]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Tell you what, you show me a group of Scout Snipers shoving a bunch of Jews in an oven, and then I'll entertain your retarded correlation between the two...

 

[-=boone=-]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

I'm offended!

Fucking pussys stfu already.

 

[KNIGHT11B4]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jaeger308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

This has got to be 25 years old from the 2nd Mar Div from my time I think Chandler also used it. Really this gets people worked up? The media seems to have a hard on for the Corps as of late must ask why? </div></div>

Because they are soulless creatures that thrive off of publishing crap that that gets a rise out of people. They are the greatest magicians even, they make the average person believe it is real.

No respect for those who put their life on the line and do the job that no one wants to do.

If you cant tell, I have a strong distaste for the media.

 

[Andrew Blubaugh]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

This shirt is from 1999. We worked with 3/1 STA guys and traded a bunch of shirts with each other. I also know no less than a dozen guys with SS (scout sniper) tats. This is not news, get over it.

 

[Sumpter Steve]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

I don't have a problem with it in the least as I know the context in which they are using this symbol. I wish them all "happy hunting".

 

[Tripwire]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jaeger308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The media seems to have a hard on for the Corps as of late must ask why? </div></div>

If any of you think the media is, ever was, or ever will, be a friend of the US military, then you are nothing short of delusional. "Fair and Balanced" is spread VERY thin in these interesting times we now live in. The media is chock FULL of very smart and savvy facists/socialists/liberals bent on destroying this country by the propaganda they "report" to the Sheeple.

Their very purpose on this earth is to discredit ANY long standing US institution any possible way they can; and in rabid support of the current administration's apologies for the U.S. being the most powerful nation on the planet; and behind the smokecreen of an implied fair and balanced application of the 1st, which from where they can simply step back out into the light and say, "What, Who Me?".

It is election year, after all, and their efforts are just starting to ramp up. The Corps is just the latest dog to kick in that regard. The pissing on the taliban video launched this round.........it's not likely to stop, for a while.

Stay the course, do your job until you are told to stand down, and to fucking hell with what the media says.........

 

[Hi Speed]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

This shit is silly. Anything to keep the attention of the sheeple on something other than whats really going on.


Weak minded puppies don't get combat. Their job is to kill. If you can't handle this, close your eyes.

 

[Fritz24]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shark0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It seams that a lot of you are confusing the atrocities caused by the SS Totenkopfverbande with the Waffen SS.

Totenkopf Verband

This was the unit under Himmler and Eike that ran the concentration camps and was entirely separate from the rest of the SS. The "deaths head" units were responsible for the mass slaughter and torture of countless victims.

Marines in general pretty much see in green. Granted there are exceptions to the rule but most Marines could care less about race.

The SS is prevalent in the Marine sniper community and it is not to pay homage to the Nazi party. </div></div>

That's not exactly true. While there was originally a core of the Totenkopfverbande in the 3rd Waffen-ss Div "Toenkopf," including Eike of course, the bulk of that Division was no different than than the remainder of the Waffen-SS in form and function. Actually, by 1942, most of the Div. was all but wiped out on the Eastern Front. Shortly after a major re-fitting in '43(France), they returned to the East and were considered among the more effective and well-trained units in the SS-Panzer Division(under Gen. Paul Hausser)

Also, the Deaths-Head insignia was worn by all Waffen-SS units, not just the 3rd "Totenkopf" Div.

*as for the issue at hand - Lowlight sums up my own feelings on the subject...

 

[shark0311]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fritz24</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shark0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It seams that a lot of you are confusing the atrocities caused by the SS Totenkopfverbande with the Waffen SS.

Totenkopf Verband

This was the unit under Himmler and Eike that ran the concentration camps and was entirely separate from the rest of the SS. The "deaths head" units were responsible for the mass slaughter and torture of countless victims.

Marines in general pretty much see in green. Granted there are exceptions to the rule but most Marines could care less about race.

The SS is prevalent in the Marine sniper community and it is not to pay homage to the Nazi party. </div></div>

That's not exactly true. While there was originally a core of the Totenkopfverbande in the 3rd Waffen-ss Div "Toenkopf," including Eike of course, the bulk of that Division was no different than than the remainder of the Waffen-SS in form and function. Actually, by 1942, most of the Div. was all but wiped out on the Eastern Front. Shortly after a major re-fitting in '43(France), they returned to the East and were considered among the more effective and well-trained units in the SS-Panzer Division(under Gen. Paul Hausser)

Also, the Deaths-Head insignia was worn by all Waffen-SS units, not just the 3rd "Totenkopf" Div.

*as for the issue at hand - Lowlight sums up my own feelings on the subject...


</div></div>

Except that the majority of the war crimes that were committed were perpetrated by the units under Eike's command and due to the scale and nature of the atrocities could account for the entirety of the Waffen SS being deemed a criminal organization. There were however units in the Waffen SS that were exonerated from war crimes.

Unlike the Totenkopfverbande the rest of the Waffen SS was made up of multiple ethnic groups and was by majority a conscript force.

 

[Megahoser]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If one of my children were to wear SS runes I'd burn them off. It's in the most extreme of poor taste and worse judgement, and I'm not the only one who thinks so or who has said so in this or in any one of the other threads that have popped up.</div></div>
"Lighten up...Francis."

 

[pdogsbeware]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Just another case of people getting bent out of shape over useless shit. Not to mention the picture was taken in sep of 2010! What do these people throwing hissy fits trying to accomplish? God forbid they channel their efforts towards, I dunno, helping the 2 billion people living in poverty, or the billion who can't even read or write...No, instead they want to fuck with marines over a logo that RESEMBLES something offensive. I just want to tell those people, "If it offends you, don't look at the picture then. Problem solved."

Rant over...sorry haha

 

[dpairborneranger]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

I believe that the S-S on the flag represents some sniper lingo acronym for the Marines. If it wasn't and did relate to the Nazis.....oh boy, I wouldn't really give two shits!!! The media needs to stay out of our war zones so we can stop with this hearts and minds bullshit!!!

 

[earthquake]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Here's my STA plt's shirt from back in '96. We were branding the SS on each other then too.

The back isn't very PC either...oops.

 

[Fritz24]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shark0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fritz24</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shark0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It seams that a lot of you are confusing the atrocities caused by the SS Totenkopfverbande with the Waffen SS.

Totenkopf Verband

This was the unit under Himmler and Eike that ran the concentration camps and was entirely separate from the rest of the SS. The "deaths head" units were responsible for the mass slaughter and torture of countless victims.

Marines in general pretty much see in green. Granted there are exceptions to the rule but most Marines could care less about race.

The SS is prevalent in the Marine sniper community and it is not to pay homage to the Nazi party. </div></div>

That's not exactly true. While there was originally a core of the Totenkopfverbande in the 3rd Waffen-ss Div "Toenkopf," including Eike of course, the bulk of that Division was no different than than the remainder of the Waffen-SS in form and function. Actually, by 1942, most of the Div. was all but wiped out on the Eastern Front. Shortly after a major re-fitting in '43(France), they returned to the East and were considered among the more effective and well-trained units in the SS-Panzer Division(under Gen. Paul Hausser)

Also, the Deaths-Head insignia was worn by all Waffen-SS units, not just the 3rd "Totenkopf" Div.

*as for the issue at hand - Lowlight sums up my own feelings on the subject...


</div></div>

Except that the majority of the war crimes that were committed were perpetrated by the units under Eike's command and due to the scale and nature of the atrocities could account for the entirety of the Waffen SS being deemed a criminal organization. There were however units in the Waffen SS that were exonerated from war crimes.

Unlike the Totenkopfverbande the rest of the Waffen SS was made up of multiple ethnic groups and was by majority a conscript force. </div></div>

Again, with all due respect, that is not entirely true, though I agree with what you are saying with reagrd to the broader Waffen-SS being unfairly smeared as one giant "criminal organization." Still, you are making a few generalizations I just cannot agree with.

Whatever may have happened under Eike's comman(porbably as the much smaller Kampfgruppe-Eike), the bulk of the unit functioned no differently than any other Waffen-SS Division.

I am also curious as to what "war-crimes' in particular you are talking about that were specifically pinned on the 3rd-SS alone? And who was "exonerated" and of what? The ENTIRE Shutzstaffel, that is SSVT, allgemeine-SS, Waffen-SS, Gestapo, etc., were ALL officially declared part of a "criminal organization" at the war's end. Various individuals stood trial, etc., but no specific Waffen-SS units were either universally charged, or universally "exonerated" as such. In fact, the convictions of various individuals(ie. Sepp Deitrich, Kurt Meyer, Jochen Pieper, etc.)were later overturned or drastically reduced, but I have no idea what you mean by any universal "unit"(what do you mean by unit - Corps? Division? Regiment? Company?)

Finally, you seem to believe the Totankopfverbande to have been a much larger, much more significant organization than it was. The "rest" of the Waffen-SS was made up on multi-ethnics only after the war was in full vigor.(perhaps 55% of the whole Waffen-SS were not of exclsuively "German" ethnic origin) There were many German regiments and divisions that were altogether German from the outset - 1st SS- Liebstandarte, 2nd-SS Reich(later Das Reich), etc. The 5th Waffen-SS Div. Wiking was the first made up of various Germanic ethnics. And they were all volunteers, not conscripts.

As the war raged on and the ghastly attrition rates caused a dire necessity for manpower, all manner of individuals ended up fighting in Waffen-SS units, but this was only toward the very end, when the war was effectively lost already.

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Megahoser</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If one of my children were to wear SS runes I'd burn them off. It's in the most extreme of poor taste and worse judgement, and I'm not the only one who thinks so or who has said so in this or in any one of the other threads that have popped up.</div></div>
"Lighten up...Francis." </div></div>

Feather boas? Excuse me, cliché, and where <span style="font-style: italic">are</span> you hangin' out?

http://twitter.com/megahoser

 

[shark0311]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fritz24</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shark0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fritz24</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shark0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It seams that a lot of you are confusing the atrocities caused by the SS Totenkopfverbande with the Waffen SS.

Totenkopf Verband

This was the unit under Himmler and Eike that ran the concentration camps and was entirely separate from the rest of the SS. The "deaths head" units were responsible for the mass slaughter and torture of countless victims.

Marines in general pretty much see in green. Granted there are exceptions to the rule but most Marines could care less about race.

The SS is prevalent in the Marine sniper community and it is not to pay homage to the Nazi party. </div></div>

That's not exactly true. While there was originally a core of the Totenkopfverbande in the 3rd Waffen-ss Div "Toenkopf," including Eike of course, the bulk of that Division was no different than than the remainder of the Waffen-SS in form and function. Actually, by 1942, most of the Div. was all but wiped out on the Eastern Front. Shortly after a major re-fitting in '43(France), they returned to the East and were considered among the more effective and well-trained units in the SS-Panzer Division(under Gen. Paul Hausser)

Also, the Deaths-Head insignia was worn by all Waffen-SS units, not just the 3rd "Totenkopf" Div.

*as for the issue at hand - Lowlight sums up my own feelings on the subject...


</div></div>

Except that the majority of the war crimes that were committed were perpetrated by the units under Eike's command and due to the scale and nature of the atrocities could account for the entirety of the Waffen SS being deemed a criminal organization. There were however units in the Waffen SS that were exonerated from war crimes.

Unlike the Totenkopfverbande the rest of the Waffen SS was made up of multiple ethnic groups and was by majority a conscript force. </div></div>

Again, with all due respect, that is not entirely true, though I agree with what you are saying with reagrd to the broader Waffen-SS being unfairly smeared as one giant "criminal organization." Still, you are making a few generalizations I just cannot agree with.

Whatever may have happened under Eike's comman(porbably as the much smaller Kampfgruppe-Eike), the bulk of the unit functioned no differently than any other Waffen-SS Division.

I am also curious as to what "war-crimes' in particular you are talking about that were specifically pinned on the 3rd-SS alone? And who was "exonerated" and of what? The ENTIRE Shutzstaffel, that is SSVT, allgemeine-SS, Waffen-SS, Gestapo, etc., were ALL officially declared part of a "criminal organization" at the war's end. Various individuals stood trial, etc., but no specific Waffen-SS units were either universally charged, or universally "exonerated" as such. In fact, the convictions of various individuals(ie. Sepp Deitrich, Kurt Meyer, Jochen Pieper, etc.)were later overturned or drastically reduced, but I have no idea what you mean by any universal "unit"(what do you mean by unit - Corps? Division? Regiment? Company?)

Finally, you seem to believe the Totankopfverbande to have been a much larger, much more significant organization than it was. The "rest" of the Waffen-SS was made up on multi-ethnics only after the war was in full vigor.(perhaps 55% of the whole Waffen-SS were not of exclsuively "German" ethnic origin) There were many German regiments and divisions that were altogether German from the outset - 1st SS- Liebstandarte, 2nd-SS Reich(later Das Reich), etc. The 5th Waffen-SS Div. Wiking was the first made up of various Germanic ethnics. And they were all volunteers, not conscripts.

As the war raged on and the ghastly attrition rates caused a dire necessity for manpower, all manner of individuals ended up fighting in Waffen-SS units, but this was only toward the very end, when the war was effectively lost already.

</div></div>

Unfortunately it is quite impossible to summarize the actions of a complex military structure over a rather large and tumultuous time period with 100% accuracy. It's just not going to happen here.

I believe that it was the 11th SS Nordland and 6th SS Nord that were found to have not participated in war crimes and conscripts which at the time accounted for 60% or more of the troops were not subject to the trials at Nuremberg.

That being said Eike was evil incarnate and he as well as the men that served under him deserve special consideration and attention.

My point was to add a little information to the discussion so that people could focus their rage a bit more accurately. Like I said there is no way to hit every truth in this discussion.

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COfox</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The back isn't very PC either...oops.

http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g407/jlfox74/ssshirt2.jpg </div></div>

At least, the back depicts an armed historical adversary.

 

[Fritz24]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shark0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My point was to add a little information to the discussion so that people could focus their rage a bit more accurately. Like I said there is no way to hit every truth in this discussion. </div></div>

Fair enough - we'll leave it there, and keep the thread on target!

 

[5RWill]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Seth8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Okay there smart guy, where did the Nazis get the symbol of the Swastica and the SS runes from and what did they mean?

I'll await your reply with eagerness! LOL</div></div>

The thing here though seth, is that regardless of it's origin most people will only see it and remember it as one symbol and that's the SS and what followed with it. Even if it's origins, good or bad, were not the intent of what the Nazi's symbolized it for it's still recognized as just that. And there is just no getting around it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Seth8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 0481</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is why the media has to stay away from the military. We have customs that most people out size of the military have no concern. </div></div>

+1

The media has done NOTHING but harm to our military, this war and past wars. This war probably would have been over by now if it hadn't been for having a freaking video camera on every hill top and street corner.

......I do have.to say this though........when my dad showed me this article all I could.do was.laugh and say "oh no, this is gonna be bad." Freakin Marines.....pissing on bad guys corpses and pics of their SS Bolts.....Gotta love em! Hahaha

They know how to kick ass and take names, but nobody ever said their PR was any good. I love it. Hope they make it home safe! </div></div>

Couldn't agree more here though.

As kraigwy said it's a perception thing, but at the same time the media needs to stay out of the soldier's business.

Comes down to the media having no business there and if they didn't post they're shitty write ups like this we wouldn't be having this discussion. Food for thought.

 

[strife]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: softcock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">Big Block Nazi's</span></span>

</div></div>

Holden SS badge

 

[11B101ABN]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Seth8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Seth8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pardon my spelling, I have fat fingers and they don't work well operating an Iphone.

Point being with the swastika, its all about interpretation. Lots of groups of people used it and it meant different things to each.

SS. Runes meant something to the Nazis and it means something different to the Marine.Scout Snipers. If you can't understand that and still judge.these warriors because of it then you can stick your brain housing group right back into that moist, dark, stinky crevice you been storing it in and go ahead and stand-by until further notice.

Thanks for your input though. Carry on with the plan of the day! </div></div>

While I thank you for your service and your CAR, I can do without your respectful tone. What I understand is that they're glorifying a symbol that has no other association other than the aforementioned one for most people, and I'm pretty sure that their use of it was for the shock and awe factor that most young men strive to achieve as they go about their daily lives, displaying fearlessness and a hopeful faith in the indestructibility of their buddies and themselves. But being a warrior doesn't mean needing to be entirely insensitive, or even briefly thinking that anything related to an organized bunch of fascist criminals is cool and should be emblematically displayed. If they pay hell for that photograph, or someone up the chain does, so be it. </div></div>

Your right about my disrespectful tone, it is not needed, nor is YOU calling MY Brothers in Arms. A bunch of "dumbasses" because of a symbol and a mindset that you will never understand.

You ever hear about how when you mess with 1 gang member, you mess with all of them? Well Marines are FAR worse. Keep that in mind before you attack any more of them in person or while sitting behind your computer. </div></div>

So far, you're the only one to have used an expression like "dumbass." Less than ten people were in that picture out of the more than quarter-million who are active and reserve USMC, so please don't try to say that I was characterizing all Marines. I understand about Marines. I grew up on Tarawa Terrace at LeJeune. And I understand about group psychology perfectly well, even though you express what almost sounds like a veiled threat. Your gang is a quarter-million? Mine is 26 million-strong and world-wide. </div></div>


Sounds like you'd better start a recruiting drive. You're out classed.


How is it you understand, if you have never been one?

This shit is overblown bullshit.So what. Adjust fire and drive the fuck on. Wanting careers ended is pointless and wil do nothing but undercut morale. The guys involoved are no-shit meat eaters. Doing stuff you'll only read about. Correction, you'll never read about. They are entitled to a gaffe of two.

 

[Grimm]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 11B101ABN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This shit is overblown bullshit.So what. Adjust fire and drive the fuck on. Wanting careers ended is pointless and wil do nothing but undercut morale. The guys involoved are no-shit meat eaters. Doing stuff you'll only read about. Correction, you'll never read about. </div></div>
Wasn't Anthony Swoffords book about a STA? Or did you mean never read about in the paper?

 

[rogers0311]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

hahaha wow. Every single sniper in my last platoon minus one or 2 had an SS tattooed on them. I have one on my chest. This symbol has been used by snipers for a very long time. There are some really cool class photos from like the 80s at the schoolhouse.

Can we go back to killing people and stop worrying about getting charged for peeing on bodies and what symbols we use?

 

[Brutas]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

 

[rweldon]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hunt4life</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now for the PC Parade, go wash your mouths out with a revolver. </div></div>
Best one liner I've heard in a while. lol

 

[Seth8541]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Seth8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Okay there smart guy, where did the Nazis get the symbol of the Swastica and the SS runes from and what did they mean?

I'll await your reply with eagerness! LOL</div></div>

The thing here though seth, is that regardless of it's origin most people will only see it and remember it as one symbol and that's the SS and what followed with it. Even if it's origins, good or bad, were not the intent of what the Nazi's symbolized it for it's still recognized as just that. And there is just no getting around it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Seth8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 0481</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is why the media has to stay away from the military. We have customs that most people out size of the military have no concern. </div></div>

+1

The media has done NOTHING but harm to our military, this war and past wars. This war probably would have been over by now if it hadn't been for having a freaking video camera on every hill top and street corner.

......I do have.to say this though........when my dad showed me this article all I could.do was.laugh and say "oh no, this is gonna be bad." Freakin Marines.....pissing on bad guys corpses and pics of their SS Bolts.....Gotta love em! Hahaha

They know how to kick ass and take names, but nobody ever said their PR was any good. I love it. Hope they make it home safe! </div></div>

Couldn't agree more here though.

As kraigwy said it's a perception thing, but at the same time the media needs to stay out of the soldier's business.

Comes down to the media having no business there and if they didn't post they're shitty write ups like this we wouldn't be having this discussion. Food for thought. </div></div>

I agree with you 100%. I know what it is associated with, however, my point was that it can be percieved differently by different people. For the Nazi's, it stood for 1 thing, and for Marine Scout Snipers it is a symbol of their acceptance into the Marine Corps Scout Sniper community. It is all about perception, and the purpose in which it is being used. Marines are NOT a bunch of Nazi's, and if you judge them by the symbols they use, and not on the factual actions of the Marines using them, you are a bone head and not worth.the breath it takes to explain it.

Now as for Marines as peacemakers......not hardly! Maybe the other Forces, but NOT the Marines. If you want to maintain security on a mass scale, send the Army. The Marines do not have the numbers for that. If you want good PR, the Marines are NOT your guys. We are not geared for that, its not our mindset, and it takes a special type of individual to be a Marine. Now, I will list the missions of the Marine Corps Scout Sniper in order so that all who don't understand will;

1. To put bullets holes in bad guys
2. To collect on report on the bad guys so that more Marines can put bullet holes in more bad guys.
3. To act as a Forward Observed so that we can drop really big bullets on mass quantities of bad guys.

Get the picture yet? Marines are meat eating, green, amphibious monsters sent to decimate the enemy and anyone that stands in thier way in mass quantities as quickly as possible and with EXTREME prejudice.

We don't feel bad about doing it!
We need to do it!
We enjoy doing it!
We don't lose sleep at night over doing it!
We don't think it is wrong!
It is our PURPOSE!
We do not concern ourselves with the politics behind it! We don't care! It is about 2 things;

1. Mission Accomplishment
2. Troop Welfare

And yes, in that order.

VeerJ,

As for you understanding the "Marine Mindset"...........I don't care where you grew up, you could have shared a sleeping bag with Chesty Puller for 25 years, you are NOT a Marine, you didn't experience Marine Corps boot camp, you haven't and never will truly understand the Esprit de Corps, Marine comradery, the blood, sweat, and tears of encountering certain situations with your Brothers! You will NEVER understand our pride and the traditions, rites of passage, or ceremonies!

You are NOT a Marine! You don't understand how a newly promoted Corporal WANTS (and dreads) recieving his "Blood Stripes" from his peers. You look at a video of new graduates of jump school drinking Wild Turkey out of the bottle, driving the jump wings into there bare chests by force as "terrible and disgraceful". It makes you sick to tour delicate little stomach. If you were to walk into a barracks room full of new Marine Scout Snipers and saw bare skin, blow torches, coat hangers, Wild Turkey, and the smell of burnt flesh, you would NOT understand, and you would think of how ridiclous, outrageous, disgusting, and stupid it was. You don't understand the "Shellback" rite of passage. You may read about it in books al you want, but you"ll NEVER "get it". Don't try to understand! You never will!

I DO NOT under ANY circumstances feel bad for putting a bullet into the cranial cavity of Mr. Muhammed Jihad Dirka Dirka! Do you still understand my mindset? Didn't think so!

I have dreams (not nightmares) EVERY night, about killing bad guys. Do you? Then i guess you understand a lot less than you thought you did, huh?

We do NOT look down upon those that didn't serve. It's not for everyone. However, we DO have issue with YOU having influence over our actions! You are not in the military therefore your opinions of us don't matter to us. If you wanted to have impact on our actions, traditions, and procedures, you should have joined the.military and moved up in rank. We don't need civilians, Hollywood actors/actresses, politicians, or the media getting in OUR affairs. Sit back in your chair, keep quite, and every time you practice you freedoms, thank a service member. That's all we need or want from you. Let us do what we DO best. If its not broken, don't jack with it!

That's all i have to say about the matter.

 

[Hi Speed]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Very well put.

 

[Mod Adahy]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Seth8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Seth8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Okay there smart guy, where did the Nazis get the symbol of the Swastica and the SS runes from and what did they mean?

I'll await your reply with eagerness! LOL</div></div>

The thing here though seth, is that regardless of it's origin most people will only see it and remember it as one symbol and that's the SS and what followed with it. Even if it's origins, good or bad, were not the intent of what the Nazi's symbolized it for it's still recognized as just that. And there is just no getting around it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Seth8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 0481</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is why the media has to stay away from the military. We have customs that most people out size of the military have no concern. </div></div>

+1

The media has done NOTHING but harm to our military, this war and past wars. This war probably would have been over by now if it hadn't been for having a freaking video camera on every hill top and street corner.

......I do have.to say this though........when my dad showed me this article all I could.do was.laugh and say "oh no, this is gonna be bad." Freakin Marines.....pissing on bad guys corpses and pics of their SS Bolts.....Gotta love em! Hahaha

They know how to kick ass and take names, but nobody ever said their PR was any good. I love it. Hope they make it home safe! </div></div>

Couldn't agree more here though.

As kraigwy said it's a perception thing, but at the same time the media needs to stay out of the soldier's business.

Comes down to the media having no business there and if they didn't post they're shitty write ups like this we wouldn't be having this discussion. Food for thought. </div></div>

I agree with you 100%. I know what it is associated with, however, my point was that it can be percieved differently by different people. For the Nazi's, it stood for 1 thing, and for Marine Scout Snipers it is a symbol of their acceptance into the Marine Corps Scout Sniper community. It is all about perception, and the purpose in which it is being used. Marines are NOT a bunch of Nazi's, and if you judge them by the symbols they use, and not on the factual actions of the Marines using them, you are a bone head and not worth.the breath it takes to explain it.

Now as for Marines as peacemakers......not hardly! Maybe the other Forces, but NOT the Marines. If you want to maintain security on a mass scale, send the Army. The Marines do not have the numbers for that. If you want good PR, the Marines are NOT your guys. We are not geared for that, its not our mindset, and it takes a special type of individual to be a Marine. Now, I will list the missions of the Marine Corps Scout Sniper in order so that all who don't understand will;

1. To put bullets holes in bad guys
2. To collect on report on the bad guys so that more Marines can put bullet holes in more bad guys.
3. To act as a Forward Observed so that we can drop really big bullets on mass quantities of bad guys.

Get the picture yet? Marines are meat eating, green, amphibious monsters sent to decimate the enemy and anyone that stands in thier way in mass quantities as quickly as possible and with EXTREME prejudice.

We don't feel bad about doing it!
We need to do it!
We don't lose sleep at night over doing it!
We don't think it is wrong!
It is our PURPOSE!
We do not concern ourselves with the politics behind it! We don't care! It is about 2 things;

1. Mission Accomplishment
2. Troop Welfare

And yes, in that order.

VeerJ,

As for you understanding the "Marine Mindset"...........I don't care where you grew up, you could have shared a sleeping bag with Chesty Puller for 25 years, you are NOT a Marine, you didn't experience Marine Corps boot camp, you haven't and never will truly understand the Esprit de Corps, Marine comradery, the blood, sweat, and tears of encountering certain situations with your Brothers! You will NEVER understand our pride and the traditions, rites of passage, or ceremonies!

You are NOT a Marine! You don't understand how a newly promoted Corporal WANTS (and dreads) recieving his "Blood Stripes" from his peers. You look at a video of new graduates of jump school drinking Wild Turkey out of the bottle, driving the jump wings into there bare chests by force as "terrible and disgraceful". It makes you sick to tour delicate little stomach. If you were to walk into a barracks room full of new Marine Scout Snipers and saw bare skin, blow torches, coat hangers, Wild Turkey, and the smell of burnt flesh, you would NOT understand, and you would think of how ridiclous, outrageous, disgusting, and stupid it was. You don't understand the "Shellback" rite of passage. You may read about it in books al you want, but you"ll NEVER "get it". Don't try to understand! You never will!

We do NOT look down upon those that didn't serve. It's not for everyone. However, we DO have issue with YOU having influence over our actions! You are not in the military therefore your opinions of us don't matter to us. If you wanted to have impact on our actions, traditions, and procedures, you should have joined the.military and moved up in rank. We don't need civilians, Hollywood actors/actresses, politicians, or the media getting in OUR affairs. Sit back in your chair, keep quite, and every time you practice you freedoms, thank a service member. That's all we need or want from you. Let us do what we DO best. If its not broken, don't jack with it!

That's all i have to say about the matter.

</div></div>

I could not agree more! All of us are able to sleep at night because someone, somewhere is will to do harm to the people who jeapordize our freedoms on our behalf!

 

[SturmHead]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

What part of WAR is a politically correct social event?
If displaying the Death's Head logo or ss runes intimidates my enemy, then I'm going to make a fashon statement.I just don't think daisies and kittens are going to do it.

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Seth8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

VeerJ,

As for you understanding the "Marine Mindset"...........I don't care where you grew up, you could have shared a sleeping bag with Chesty Puller for 25 years, you are NOT a Marine, you didn't experience Marine Corps boot camp, you haven't and never will truly understand the Esprit de Corps, Marine comradery, the blood, sweat, and tears of encountering certain situations with your Brothers! You will NEVER understand our pride and the traditions, rites of passage, or ceremonies!

You are NOT a Marine! You don't understand how a newly promoted Corporal WANTS (and dreads) recieving his "Blood Stripes" from his peers. You look at a video of new graduates of jump school drinking Wild Turkey out of the bottle, driving the jump wings into there bare chests by force as "terrible and disgraceful". It makes you sick to tour delicate little stomach. If you were to walk into a barracks room full of new Marine Scout Snipers and saw bare skin, blow torches, coat hangers, Wild Turkey, and the smell of burnt flesh, you would NOT understand, and you would think of how ridiclous, outrageous, disgusting, and stupid it was. You don't understand the "Shellback" rite of passage. You may read about it in books al you want, but you"ll NEVER "get it". Don't try to understand! You never will!

We do NOT look down upon those that didn't serve. It's not for everyone. However, we DO have issue with YOU having influence over our actions! You are not in the military therefore your opinions of us don't matter to us. If you wanted to have impact on our actions, traditions, and procedures, you should have joined the.military and moved up in rank. We don't need civilians, Hollywood actors/actresses, politicians, or the media getting in OUR affairs. Sit back in your chair, keep quite, and every time you practice you freedoms, thank a service member. That's all we need or want from you. Let us do what we DO best. If its not broken, don't jack with it!

That's all i have to say about the matter.

</div></div>

Firstly, when it comes to my freedoms, I don't depend upon you or anyone else drawing a government paycheck to defend them, thank you. You telling me that I should STFD, STFU, and gratefully accept what I am given with meekness is all I need to hear. Your "gift" isn't a gift at all, firstly because it's apparently given with the expectation that we should forgive you everything else in return for it, and secondly, because it isn't yours to give. God grants me the right and the means, within His grace, to do so, not the government through 2A in the BOR, and definitely not the government as represented by you. We're thankful for your faithful service, but not when it's extended to us like the charity of a bully. There's a good reason that the Founding Fathers were leery of standing armies, and yet now we have them.

Secondly, no, not everyone can join the military, some people simply shouldn't, and yes, it can get a bit balled up when third parties start voicing opinions and attempting to exert influence. But this flap isn't about minor league issues, like horrifying civilians who might learn about getting jumped into a unit, or getting E4 chevrons/crows pounded into your arm, or jump wings beaten into your chest, or even having the bad manners to accuse someone that you don't know from a can of paint of being too delicate to accept the occasional brutality of military life. No, it's about Nazi icons, and everything else is smokescreen.

Yes, most people would like to read the headlines, know that everything is secure in the world, and not give a second thought to the price that people pay on the sharp edge of the sword, but this thing with the SS runes is just too far beyond the pale. Sixty-seven years ago, people were still fighting and dying, my great uncle included, to rid the world of monsters to whom these Nazis icons symbolized the eradication of a people from the face of the earth. You say that I don't "get it" because I'm on the outside looking in, and yet I'm pretty sure that you and others like you can be a bit blinded from within by what you think to be the perks of your status and your service. I'll even go a step further and suggest that this current generation feels a complete disconnect with anything that happened before, and an attachment to the validity of "lulz" and "cool" at any price, even embracing the unacceptable as a challenge to authority.

I grew up around people who had "meat tags" of their own, identification numbers from Nazi concentration camps, given to them courtesy of young, idealistic men wearing the exact same runes. I can't even begin to imagine what they and their children are thinking right now when they see that SS rune flag. One would hope that older, more mature and responsible heads at a higher level of command might have thought this through a bit, and found another way to encourage the STA esprit de corps without employing such hideous emblems, which undoubtedly only encourage the enemy and humiliate our only real ally in the CTO. Lastly, ask yourself what a Robert Magnus might have thought of such a display.

 

[rogers0311]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

If you were to walk in to a barracks room filled with any sniper platoon that I know of, and complain about how you are offended by the SS, you would honestly get beat up for the simple fact that you would look pathetically weak. The Scout Sniper community exists to kill people, and not care about who they offend. It is a community of alpha males. Again, if you are offended, you would simply appear weak, and any Scout Sniper platoon would pray on you faster then you could ever imagine.

 

[Jaeger308]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Well put Seth!

<span style="font-style: italic">“There are only two kinds of people who understand Marines, Marines and the enemy, everyone else has a second hand opinion.” General William Thompson US Army</span>

Marines are in the mission business of killing there is no way that becomes politically correct on any level, we have known this and live with it for the rest of our days. The fact that this SS symbol now causes ire with some taking it out of context means nothing to us. I saw that symbol 30 years ago on Scout Sniper school house walls, unit logos and on the skin of many Marine Scout Snipers. No one seemed to be bent over it back then, until up to now? The Waffen SS are long gone get over it. Snipers throughout our history were always put away after a conflict because of what we do and how we go about doing it, for the past 30+ years snipers have become a permanent force because we now understand the force multiplier they are. This symbol has a new meaning and has become a tradition with Marines in that time.


Not just talking about this Symbol now, but if current ROEs, reports and views took place in the south pacific in WW II every one of our fathers and grandfathers would have been brought up on charges for the actions they took to win. When we release our dogs of war let them loose, let them rally around whatever symbol, motto or mindset they chose so long as it does not affect the outcome of the mission or affect unit discipline, and for Marines and Scout Snipers as Seth posted that mission is violence with “extreme prejudice”, that is what an enemy clearly understands every time.

We have taken many things from the German era of WW II jets, rockets; the M-60 machine gun is a direct descendant of the old German MG series design. The Israeli military at one time did a study on the best camo pattern available they concluded that German Flactarn was it, the Politian’s decided they could not use it because of its origins, really, could have saved Israeli lives on the battle field but no because of the symbolic history, get over it.

 

[perkantino]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Shooters will always be shooters. Be it on here, or with the USMC.

 

[shark0311]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Seth8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

VeerJ,

As for you understanding the "Marine Mindset"...........I don't care where you grew up, you could have shared a sleeping bag with Chesty Puller for 25 years, you are NOT a Marine, you didn't experience Marine Corps boot camp, you haven't and never will truly understand the Esprit de Corps, Marine comradery, the blood, sweat, and tears of encountering certain situations with your Brothers! You will NEVER understand our pride and the traditions, rites of passage, or ceremonies!

You are NOT a Marine! You don't understand how a newly promoted Corporal WANTS (and dreads) recieving his "Blood Stripes" from his peers. You look at a video of new graduates of jump school drinking Wild Turkey out of the bottle, driving the jump wings into there bare chests by force as "terrible and disgraceful". It makes you sick to tour delicate little stomach. If you were to walk into a barracks room full of new Marine Scout Snipers and saw bare skin, blow torches, coat hangers, Wild Turkey, and the smell of burnt flesh, you would NOT understand, and you would think of how ridiclous, outrageous, disgusting, and stupid it was. You don't understand the "Shellback" rite of passage. You may read about it in books al you want, but you"ll NEVER "get it". Don't try to understand! You never will!

We do NOT look down upon those that didn't serve. It's not for everyone. However, we DO have issue with YOU having influence over our actions! You are not in the military therefore your opinions of us don't matter to us. If you wanted to have impact on our actions, traditions, and procedures, you should have joined the.military and moved up in rank. We don't need civilians, Hollywood actors/actresses, politicians, or the media getting in OUR affairs. Sit back in your chair, keep quite, and every time you practice you freedoms, thank a service member. That's all we need or want from you. Let us do what we DO best. If its not broken, don't jack with it!

That's all i have to say about the matter.

</div></div>

Firstly, when it comes to my freedoms, I don't depend upon you or anyone else drawing a government paycheck to defend them, thank you. You telling me that I should STFD, STFU, and gratefully accept what I am given with meekness is all I need to hear. Your "gift" isn't a gift at all, firstly because it's apparently given with the expectation that we should forgive you everything else in return for it, and secondly, because it isn't yours to give. God grants me the right and the means, within His grace, to do so, not the government through 2A in the BOR, and definitely not the government as represented by you. We're thankful for your faithful service, but not when it's extended to us like the charity of a bully. There's a good reason that the Founding Fathers were leery of standing armies, and yet now we have them.

Secondly, no, not everyone can join the military, some people simply shouldn't, and yes, it can get a bit balled up when third parties start voicing opinions and attempting to exert influence. But this flap isn't about minor league issues, like horrifying civilians who might learn about getting jumped into a unit, or getting E4 chevrons/crows pounded into your arm, or jump wings beaten into your chest, or even having the bad manners to accuse someone that you don't know from a can of paint of being too delicate to accept the occasional brutality of military life. No, it's about Nazi icons, and everything else is smokescreen.

Yes, most people would like to read the headlines, know that everything is secure in the world, and not give a second thought to the price that people pay on the sharp edge of the sword, but this thing with the SS runes is just too far beyond the pale. Sixty-seven years ago, people were still fighting and dying, my great uncle included, to rid the world of monsters to whom these Nazis icons symbolized the eradication of a people from the face of the earth. You say that I don't "get it" because I'm on the outside looking in, and yet I'm pretty sure that you and others like you can be a bit blinded from within by what you think to be the perks of your status and your service. I'll even go a step further and suggest that this current generation feels a complete disconnect with anything that happened before, and an attachment to the validity of "lulz" and "cool" at any price, even embracing the unacceptable as a challenge to authority.

I grew up around people who had "meat tags" of their own, identification numbers from Nazi concentration camps, given to them courtesy of young, idealistic men wearing the exact same runes. I can't even begin to imagine what they and their children are thinking right now when they see that SS rune flag. One would hope that older, more mature and responsible heads at a higher level of command might have thought this through a bit, and found another way to encourage the STA esprit de corps without employing such hideous emblems, which undoubtedly only encourage the enemy and humiliate our only real ally in the CTO. Lastly, ask yourself what a Robert Magnus might have thought of such a display.</div></div>

Veer G,

You seem to take offence at the behaviors, ideologies and symbols used by Marine Scout Snipers. If this is the case why are you here?

Maybe it's time for you to move on. This whole war thing seams to be pretty stressful for you.

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Hmmmm, if it weren't for the US Military I wonder how WWII would have ended or when???? I must be missing a history lesson?

 

[Mike_in_FL]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strife</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: softcock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">Big Block Nazi's</span></span>

</div></div>

Holden SS badge

</div></div>

I was debating which of these to steal back in the '80s for my new metal band "Stainless Steel". Free publicity from the lawsuit or public outrage. I had a t-shirt from basic training at Ft. Dix with a DeathsHead for D-4-3 company. The media should learn how to STFU.

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shark0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Veer G,

You seem to take offence at the behaviors, ideologies and symbols used by Marine Scout Snipers. If this is the case why are you here?

Maybe it's time for you to move on. This whole war thing seams to be pretty stressful for you. </div></div>

I think that the runes were a bad idea, plain and simple. It all comes down to QMS:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Principle 2: Leadership

...

Considering the needs of all interested parties including customers, owners, employees, suppliers, financiers, local communities and society as a whole.

...</div></div>

 

[Killer Spade 13]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

I've spoken my piece about the lightning stripes of the SS.

I've spoken my piece based on the fact that I,too, have wings that were pinned on my chest, not by some other members of my group pounding them on my chest to draw a few drops of blood in a show of bravado. My wings were pinned on me by the Viet Cong and NVA troops.

I've spoken my piece based upon the fact that if I were still in service I'd be wearing, proudly and with honor, the patch of the 1st Cavalry Division (Air Mobile) on my right sleeve.

I've spoken my piece based upon the fact that if I were in dress uniform I'd be wearing 4 row of 3, with the top row of ribbons having only the colors red, white and blue.

I've spoken my piece based upon the fact that I flew many young men into combat and many out of combat, not all living.

I find the selected symbol of the scout sniper an anathema to any intelligent young man that has any knowledge of history and any modicum of self respect.

That is all.

 

[Seth8541]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

VeerJ,

If you think we or I do it for your thanks, a paycheck, or perks, then you truly are clueless.

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Seth8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body">VeerJ,

If you think we or I do it for your thanks, a paycheck, or perks, then you truly are clueless. </div></div>

Ultimately, you do it for the people on either side of you, but I'm probably too stupid or too much of a feather merchant to know that, right?

 

[Seth8541]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Seth8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body">VeerJ,

If you think we or I do it for your thanks, a paycheck, or perks, then you truly are clueless. </div></div>

Ultimately, you do it for the people on either side of you, but I'm probably too stupid or too much of a feather merchant to know that, right? </div></div>

Nope, got that one right. Here's a point for you.....+1

 

[pizzamanny]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

I support our Marines.

 

[ggmanning]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

There is German military imagery in lots of places...check out the eagle eye on SWFA scopes. Much of that imagery far pre-dated nazi Germany. These guys are obviously not nazis. How many complaining on here have a SWFA scope....or a kopfjaeger patch....or skulls on their gear....all of which could be called nazi imagery by the imaginitive? If I was a Marine scout sniper I would proudly wear the double lightning bolt and not have one inkling of nazi in mind. Frankly, in what they had to do to earn the MOS and what they do for me in carrying out that MOS I could care less what the PC twist it to represent. To them it is a symbol of the ultra elite scout sniper community. Good enough for me.

 

[shark0311]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

USMC Statement

A STATEMENT ON THE SS FLAG FROM THE COMMANDANT OF THE MARINE CORPS GEN. JAMES F. AMOS

2/10/2012
Headquarters Marine Corps Lt. Col. Joseph M. Plenzler
Headquarters Marine Corps
(703) 614-2326
[email protected]
WASHINGTON —
On February 9, I was made aware of an internet photo depicting Marines posing with a flag containing a Nazi symbol. I want to be clear that the Marine Corps unequivocally does not condone the use of any such symbols to represent our units or Marines.

The local command to which the Marines in the photo were assigned investigated this issue last November. They determined that the Marines in the photo were ignorant of the connection of this symbol to the Holocaust and monumental atrocities associated with Nazi Germany. To ensure the Marines involved fully understood the historical use of the SS symbology, a formal instructional class was prepared and delivered by unit leadership.

In order to ensure that all Marines are aware of the Marine Corps' position on this issue, I have directed that:

- My commanders investigate the prevalence of the use of SS or other unauthorized symbols within the reconnaissance and sniper communities.

- The Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps immediately detach from his current duties in Washington, DC and personally meet with every senior Staff Non-commissioned Officer and Marine from our sniper and reconnaissance communities to reinforce my message and expectations.

- The commanding general of our training and education command review the current sniper school curriculum to ensure it contains prohibitions on the use of the SS symbol and other inappropriate symbols.

On behalf of the Marine Corps and all Marines, I apologize to all offended by this regrettable incident.

-END-

 

[Killer Spade 13]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

"the Marines in the photo were ignorant of the connection of this symbol to the Holocaust and monumental atrocities associated with Nazi Germany" . . . .

. . . doesn't say much for our educational system.

 

[0481]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

How sad that the men that save your ass have to change the insignia that means scout sniper. Hope your sorry ass enjoys your freedoms now that SS has to be removed from a flag you do not fly. You can bet they will still fly it one way or another.

Semper fi my brothers.

 

[Seth8541]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shark0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> USMC Statement

A STATEMENT ON THE SS FLAG FROM THE COMMANDANT OF THE MARINE CORPS GEN. JAMES F. AMOS

2/10/2012
Headquarters Marine Corps Lt. Col. Joseph M. Plenzler
Headquarters Marine Corps
(703) 614-2326
[email protected]
WASHINGTON —
On February 9, I was made aware of an internet photo depicting Marines posing with a flag containing a Nazi symbol. I want to be clear that the Marine Corps unequivocally does not condone the use of any such symbols to represent our units or Marines.

The local command to which the Marines in the photo were assigned investigated this issue last November. They determined that the Marines in the photo were ignorant of the connection of this symbol to the Holocaust and monumental atrocities associated with Nazi Germany. To ensure the Marines involved fully understood the historical use of the SS symbology, a formal instructional class was prepared and delivered by unit leadership.

In order to ensure that all Marines are aware of the Marine Corps' position on this issue, I have directed that:

- My commanders investigate the prevalence of the use of SS or other unauthorized symbols within the reconnaissance and sniper communities.

- The Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps immediately detach from his current duties in Washington, DC and personally meet with every senior Staff Non-commissioned Officer and Marine from our sniper and reconnaissance communities to reinforce my message and expectations.

- The commanding general of our training and education command review the current sniper school curriculum to ensure it contains prohibitions on the use of the SS symbol and other inappropriate symbols.

On behalf of the Marine Corps and all Marines, I apologize to all offended by this regrettable incident.

-END- </div></div>

Who is that statement meant to appease? All the Marines that are "apparently" raising a stink? No. What do you he was supposed to say? He said and did what his hand was forced to do by "outside" entities. You think the Marines are unaware of its use as a symbol for Scout Sniper? Come on!

Same thing with pissing on enemy corpses. Who made an issue out of that? They are one in the same.

 

[ArmaHeavy]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fritz24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

That's not exactly true. While there was originally a core of the Totenkopfverbande in the 3rd Waffen-ss Div "Toenkopf," including Eike of course, the bulk of that Division was no different than than the remainder of the Waffen-SS in form and function. Actually, by 1942, most of the Div. was all but wiped out on the Eastern Front. Shortly after a major re-fitting in '43(France), they returned to the East and were considered among the more effective and well-trained units in the SS-Panzer Division(under Gen. Paul Hausser)

Also, the Deaths-Head insignia was worn by all Waffen-SS units, not just the 3rd "Totenkopf" Div.

*as for the issue at hand - Lowlight sums up my own feelings on the subject...
</div></div>

Nobody ever talks about the Einstatzgruppen. Shame...

It would be a hell of a history lesson on the Holocaust, and give an idea of the machinations of genocide.

This topic on the SS logo, routinely gets brought up from time to time on the Hide. All of you can do a google search on it. It pops up, people bicker, both for and against, and still the Scout Snipers use it, even after the pointless fighting on this forum. It really doesn't make a difference. <span style="text-decoration: underline">It has been in use longer than those who have a problem with it, have known about it.</span>

It means something to the SS teams that fly it, everyone acknowledges that they are the good guys in a shitty situation trying to get through it without loosing a drop of blood, let them be.

I couldn't give two shits if they wanted to fly a flag with two dicks touching each other, a black panther eating a white sheep, and a white guy handing money to a mom on welfare with 14 kids. The guys made it home, so I doubt that at the time they were thinking about anything less than their fellow Marine's lives, their lives, and their jobs while they were over there.

Oh, and if anyone wants to see a new side to the Nazi influences on the middle east, then knowledge is but a google search away(The Iranian president's tirade, about the destruction of Israel, should sound familiar if you've heard enough of that bullshit Nazi propaganda).

 

[Tripwire]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> USMC Statement

A STATEMENT ON THE SS FLAG FROM THE COMMANDANT OF THE MARINE CORPS GEN. JAMES F. AMOS

2/10/2012
Headquarters Marine Corps Lt. Col. Joseph M. Plenzler
Headquarters Marine Corps
(703) 614-2326
[email protected]
WASHINGTON —
On February 9, I was made aware of an internet photo depicting Marines posing with a flag containing a Nazi symbol. I want to be clear that the Marine Corps unequivocally does not condone the use of any such symbols to represent our units or Marines.

The local command to which the Marines in the photo were assigned investigated this issue last November. They determined that the Marines in the photo were ignorant of the connection of this symbol to the Holocaust and monumental atrocities associated with Nazi Germany. To ensure the Marines involved fully understood the historical use of the SS symbology, a formal instructional class was prepared and delivered by unit leadership.

In order to ensure that all Marines are aware of the Marine Corps' position on this issue, I have directed that:

- My commanders investigate the prevalence of the use of SS or other unauthorized symbols within the reconnaissance and sniper communities.

- The Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps immediately detach from his current duties in Washington, DC and personally meet with every senior Staff Non-commissioned Officer and Marine from our sniper and reconnaissance communities to reinforce my message and expectations.

- The commanding general of our training and education command review the current sniper school curriculum to ensure it contains prohibitions on the use of the SS symbol and other inappropriate symbols.

On behalf of the Marine Corps and all Marines, I apologize to all offended by this regrettable incident.

-END- </div></div>

That's a cave if I ever saw one....seems leadership isn't up to speed with tradition.

At least "officially"............

 

[Ghost 1]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Latest word is even if they didn't know what it meant. Somebody has to be the fall guy.