Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

[Mike]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

As a Navajo Indian I'm offended by the Nazi use of the swastika. Doesn't 6000 years of use prior to these National Socialists count for anything?

 

[Jaeger308]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

General Amos is our Commandant and that is official Marine Corps P/C policy....Question what if Gen Mattis would have become our commandant what would the response have been?

 

[ArmaHeavy]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As a Navajo Indian I'm offended by the Nazi use of the swastika. Doesn't 6000 years of use prior to these National Socialists count for anything?
</div></div> Makes me wonder if the Boy Scouts were offended by the Nazi usage as well.

 

[ArmaHeavy]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jaeger308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">General Amos is our Commandant and that is official Marine Corps P/C policy....Question what if Gen Mattis would have become our commandant what would the response have been? </div></div>

"Don't give a fuck."

Something like this?

 

[fadin'fast]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Here we go again. Does all of this chatter remind us of another time not too long ago?
My next door neighbor and his son are on the way to Astan. Do I have ambivalent feelings about all this Hell Yeah.
I can see both sides of the argument, but until the young lions come home, I have to agree with Tripwire and Pizzamanny. 100% support for the boys in harms way.

To paraphrase jrose said show me young marines shoving Jews into and oven, and then we have a problem.

Lets not forget the young men in harms way. I'm sure ALL of us care. We can do an after action report when they are all home safe. One life lost is one life too many.

Just one old airplane mechanic's opinion.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

I've seen the SS thunderbolts in the Marine sniper community for a loooong time. And I was an artilleryman.

I was kinda surprised the first time I saw it. After a little thinkin', I figured it was just part of the "killer elite" mentality. Nothing to do with racism, or genocide.

Of course, there were no phone-cams, twitter, youtube, facebook, etc, etc, in those days.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

When you ask men to do dangerous work, in dirty places, training/equipment is critical, and a little bravado doesn't hurt either.

 

[Seth8541]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When you ask men to do dangerous work, in dirty places, training/equipment is critical, and a little bravado doesn't hurt either. </div></div>

Lol.:............Semper Fi Master Guns!

 

[USMC mustang]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmaHeavy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jaeger308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">General Amos is our Commandant and that is official Marine Corps P/C policy....Question what if Gen Mattis would have become our commandant what would the response have been? </div></div>

"Don't give a fuck."

Something like this?</div></div>

LOL +1

 

[Killer Spade 13]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Give our young men an insignia . . . but let it be "THEIR'S".

Let it have no connection with repression, murder, genocide in the minds of anyone who looks upon them as the representatives of freedom, democracy and liberty.

The esprit de corps is a needed thing in the military, and the identification with a unit paramount.

But just a bit of sensibility is sometimes required.

I can understand both sides of this issue.

But, given the knowledge of the history of the basic design, would you elect to use that design?

And if you do, I would have to think that you are no better that those who brought it into being, because it serves only to replicate the same mindset.

That is my opinion, and that of my father who served as a tail gunner on a B-24 in WW2. We've a bit of history here . . .

But go ahead, be pissed off, offended, etc. Pretty much sums up the younger generations.

I appreciate and honor your services and sacrifices, but not so often your trains of thought.

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

All this over a Font...

 

[Killer Spade 13]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

A symbol is not a font.

 

[0481]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

How in the bell are susposed to make a bad ass S for a badass. Someone needs to tell mother nature that the lightening bolt is repolsive.

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killer Spade 13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A symbol is not a font.
</div></div>

Tomato Tomahto

Potato Potahto

Lets call the whole thing off

 

[Killer Spade 13]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

May I ask why it HAS to be an "S"?
Can't they be a bit more creative?
Can they not come up with an original concept?

I would think that a musket, not unlike that used in the combat infantryman's badge of the U.S. Army, with a high topped moccasin folding over the top would serve to make an honorable insignia.

Just questions. Just thoughts.

Yes, I'm old, antiquated, and nearing my end. But I still feel that the members of our armed forces should acquit themselves not only with ability, determination and honor, but also with intelligence, civility and integrity.

Kill them all . . . let God sort them out! I don't care.

But bring no shame upon your Country, your Corps, your Unit, or Yourself.

God bless all of you who wear the uniform.

<span style="font-style: italic">Oh, by the way, 0481, if you're a "BADASS", you don't have to advertise, the enemy will know it.</span>

 

[Mike]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Son, all I've ever asked of my Marines is that they obey my orders as they would the word of God. We are here to help the Afghans, because inside every Afghan there is an American 7-11 owner trying to get out. It's a hardball world, son. We've gotta keep our heads until this peace craze blows over.

 

[0481]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

I am no badass. I am a Marine. I will stand next to or in front of any of my brothers.
I'm guessing the SS stands for Scout Sniper that's why it was chosen.

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Oh, you got me sold, Mike. I'm comin' in for the "big win" for sure.

 

[Accusource8541]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

If I am not mistaken, the Sgt. Major of the Marine Corps is a HOG and I'm quite sure he has a few shirts, brands, tats, etc. with the same symbol. Pretty sure the conversation from him should go... "Hey guys, stop posting your f'ing pics online. Your giving me a headache"

Personally, as a HOG, I don't really give a shit what people think about it. There was a pretty big stink in my battalion about people getting the brand once the BC found out about them though...

 

[Seth8541]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killer Spade 13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Give our young men an insignia . . . but let it be "THEIR'S".

Let it have no connection with repression, murder, genocide in the minds of anyone who looks upon them as the representatives of freedom, democracy and liberty.

The esprit de corps is a needed thing in the military, and the identification with a unit paramount.

But just a bit of sensibility is sometimes required.

I can understand both sides of this issue.

<span style="font-weight: bold">But, given the knowledge of the history of the basic design, would you elect to use that design?

And if you do, I would have to think that you are no better that those who brought it into being, because it serves only to replicate the same mindset.</span>
That is my opinion, and that of my father who served as a tail gunner on a B-24 in WW2. We've a bit of history here . . .

But go ahead, be pissed off, offended, etc. Pretty much sums up the younger generations.

I appreciate and honor your services and sacrifices, but not so often your trains of thought.
</div></div>

Well then your gonna love these. According to you, Anyone of my fellow Scout Snipers including myself are no better that the Nazi's and dishonor our country. Okay. I can garantee that the men I served under, the men I served with, my family, and others will disagree. Thats also okay though. Thank you to you and your father for your service. All joking and sarcasim aside, you have my respect.

And yes I got ALL of these while i the Corps. Here's one for ya.

 

[perkantino]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Well Seth8541, that could have shortened the debate. You should have posted those tattoos earlier. It paints a clearer picture.
The bolts (not S's but rather bolts, unless you got bad penmanship) have been explained as "Scout Snipers". I can see how that can be.

But, it also looks like you got awarded the "Iron cross". Probably for bravour.

 

[sharac]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Seth if i may comment not very smart move tattooing all that symbols as i'm pretty sure that not every one of your countries enemies are stupid to the bone and catching an enemy soldier with your tattoos pretty much guarantees a world of hurt. I would expect that US armed forces would be smart enough to ban permanent marking of their top soldiers. Imagine a member of devgru tatooing something like i've offed Osama on his forehead and got cought by the enemy...

 

[Hi Speed]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

These marks identify us

 

[sharac]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

So every body part one tattoo

.

 

[Hi Speed]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

I

 

[_RJ_]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Accusource8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I am not mistaken, the Sgt. Major of the Marine Corps is a HOG and I'm quite sure he has a few shirts, brands, tats, etc. with the same symbol. Pretty sure the conversation from him should go... "Hey guys, stop posting your f'ing pics online. Your giving me a headache"

Personally, as a HOG, I don't really give a shit what people think about it. There was a pretty big stink in my battalion about people getting the brand once the BC found out about them though...</div></div>

I can't remember if Sgt. Maj. Barrett has any tattoo's. But I wouldn't be surprised if he sides with the people agains't the SS bolts. He really likes sticking to the rules, verbatim.

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

FWIW, the rules were already up and available. This is a slide (no. 12) from a .ppt presentation available at the URL below.

www.yuma.usmc.mil/services/eo/documents/tattoos.ppt

You'll need the appropriate v. of Microsoft Office with Powerpoint to view the link directly. According to detailed info, the presentation was created on 2/17/2003.

 

[rogers0311]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Veer,

You are a straight GATHERER.

I bet you think youre a "sniper" because you hang out on a website, own a bolt gun, and shoot every so often. Cool story. Now step aside, real men are talking.

 

[JRose]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Only the dim witted ignore context when shouting foul....

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rogers0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Veer,

You are a straight GATHERER.

I bet you think youre a "sniper" because you hang out on a website, own a bolt gun, and shoot every so often. Cool story. Now step aside, <span style="font-weight: bold">real men are talking</span>. </div></div>

Yeah, I can see that clearly, sonny.

http://news.webshots.com/photo/2076800760085650444jchRMl

I've said my piece.

 

[Immorteq]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rogers0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Veer,

You are a straight GATHERER.

I bet you think youre a "sniper" because you hang out on a website, own a bolt gun, and shoot every so often. Cool story. Now step aside, <span style="font-weight: bold">real men are talking</span>. </div></div>

Yeah, I can see that clearly, sonny.

http://news.webshots.com/photo/2076800760085650444jchRMl

I've said my piece.

</div></div>

That picture is gold. Not suprised in the least.

 

[Immorteq]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

That whole photo album is comedy gold.

 

[Seth8541]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seth if i may comment not very smart move tattooing all that symbols as i'm pretty sure that not every one of your countries enemies are stupid to the bone and catching an enemy soldier with your tattoos pretty much guarantees a world of hurt. I would expect that US armed forces would be smart enough to ban permanent marking of their top soldiers. Imagine a member of devgru tatooing something like i've offed Osama on his forehead and got cought by the enemy...

</div></div>

I think you watch too many movies.

If captured do you think my Sniper rifle may give me away sooner than my tattoos?

If you get caught by todays enemy, its probabley gonna be Game Over regardless of your chosen career path.

 

[Mike]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Seth8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I think you watch too many movies.

If captured do you think my Sniper rifle may give me away sooner than my tattoos?

If you get caught by todays enemy, its probabley gonna be Game Over regardless of your chosen career path.
</div></div>

Seth, I appreciate your pride over your tattoos but if you're going to have that pic in your sig it needs to be much smaller.

Now to your point. Although I agree with you that your tats aren't going to be the "giveaway" to who you are, but their not going to help. Your fate may be sealed and set in stone, but the pathway between some logistical, support staff and a front-line special operator are going to be two different paths. I'll be the first to say you've earned the right to wear those tats, but sometimes pleading ignorance can play in your favor.

 

[Polytrauma]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Many Westerners believe "towelhead Mother Fuckers" are Taliban, Paki terrorists muslim extremists, ie. the enemy; are they wrong? Veer_G, of all the places you come here and disrespect our Marine Snipers and the rest of our military men and woman. Why don't you stick to trying to be the Hides want to be comedian, your not even the best at that as Shankster and Forty-One own you in that regard.
I learned as a boy there are two types of men in this world, the Marines an like minded civilians or pussies. Veer_G, you fall into the later category know doubt. You have been told by the men themselves who live and die by the Scout Sniper creed what the letters stand for and yet you are making an issuee where none should exist! To our Hide members who are Marine Snipers and veterans of our other branches, I want to tell you all the sacrifies you endure do not go unnoticed by your fellow Americans again, Thank You for your service to our great nation! The day men stop having the mentality of our Marine Core is the day the USA ceases to exist!

 

[Mike]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Poly,
I'm going to say this from a mod standpoint. Make your issue with Veer but leave his faith out of it. He wears big boy shorts and can take care of himself but I'm going to step in when it starts to get about everyone with a turban is a muslim extremist or taliban.

Capice?

 

[Seth8541]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Seth8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I think you watch too many movies.

If captured do you think my Sniper rifle may give me away sooner than my tattoos?

If you get caught by todays enemy, its probabley gonna be Game Over regardless of your chosen career path.
</div></div>

Seth, I appreciate your pride over your tattoos but if you're going to have that pic in your sig it needs to be much smaller.

Now to your point. Although I agree with you that your tats aren't going to be the "giveaway" to who you are, but their not going to help. Your fate may be sealed and set in stone, but the pathway between some logistical, support staff and a front-line special operator are going to be two different paths. I'll be the first to say you've earned the right to wear those tats, but sometimes pleading ignorance can play in your favor. </div></div>

Sorry bout the size of the Sig bro. Got tired of playing with it on Photobucket lastnight. I'll get it shrunk down for you.

Now, I'm not denying the fact that they will not do me any good. Ive done the whole SERE thing and understand the consequences of my job skill and tattoos if caught. I will also say that unit designations are prevalent among Snipers. Not saying its the smartest thing to do, but I guess when the branding or tattooing starts after graduation no ones thinking about getting captured and the possible actions that will be taken against them because of they're tattoos.

When our enemy is sawing the heads of of captured non Muslim civilians, its kinda hard to think they will do anything different to tje captured service members with or without tattoos.

 

[Mike]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Seth8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
When our enemy is sawing the heads of of captured non Muslim civilians, its kinda hard to think they will do anything different to tje captured service members with or without tattoos.</div></div>

Yes, absolutely agree and as a SERE veteran too, we've all been told the same thing. My thought is (and I know you're aware too) there's a huge difference between getting caught and getting your head hacked off and getting caught, being beaten and tortured for a week THEN getting your head hacked off.

But also agree like you and your comrades, they can cut the head off my dead carcass because I'm not going down without a fight.

 

[perkantino]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

People complain that the brass is showing cowardice for not standing up for what they really believe. But some people here too are as much cowards if not more. If you secretly admire the SS, say so! Don't hide behind ignorance or innocence, or great rhetoric for that matter. That's cowardly too!
There is such a thing as the first amendment in this country, in fact some of you fought for your own first amendment. So use it!
Be brave.
If you secretly admire the Nazis, say so! and let's call it a day. It's not math! It's much simpler.

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Poly,
I'm going to say this from a mod standpoint ...</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Polytrauma</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Many Westerners believe "towelhead Mother Fuckers" are Taliban, Paki terrorists muslim extremists, ie. the enemy; are they wrong?</span> Veer_G, of all the places you come here and disrespect our Marine Snipers and the rest of our military men and woman. Why don't you stick to trying to be the Hides want to be comedian, your not even the best at that as Shankster and Forty-One own you in that regard.
I learned as a boy there are two types of men in this world, the Marines an like minded civilians or pussies. Veer_G, you fall into the later category know doubt. You have been told by the men themselves who live and die by the Scout Sniper creed what the letters stand for and yet you are making an issuee where none should exist! To our Hide members who are Marine Snipers and veterans of our other branches, I want to tell you all the sacrifies you endure do not go unnoticed by your fellow Americans again, Thank You for your service to our great nation! The day men stop having the mentality of our Marine Core is the day the USA ceases to exist!

</div></div>

You'll have to ask your mom to be sure. Other than that, I'm not touching the rest of it, as it's beneath contempt. As I said before, I've said my piece, and if <span style="font-style: italic">my</span> words weren't good enough, listen to what Killer Spade 13 and KraigWy had to say in the thread. They've got BTDT in spades, and we're of a like mind on the subject. O/O ...

 

[KYS]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shark0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Veer G,

You seem to take offence at the behaviors, ideologies and symbols used by Marine Scout Snipers. If this is the case why are you here?

Maybe it's time for you to move on. This whole war thing seams to be pretty stressful for you. </div></div>

I think that the runes were a bad idea, plain and simple. It all comes down to QMS:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Principle 2: Leadership

...

Considering the needs of all interested parties including customers, owners, employees, suppliers, financiers, local communities and society as a whole.

...</div></div>
</div></div>


Veer, I don't think the Marines give a shit what you think is G rated. The military isn't here to be censored. They have a mission, and that is destroy the enemy. The media needs to stay out of this stuff.

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

 

[mavrick10_2000]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Kiss logo was the first thing that came to mind for me as well.

Ultimately it's just another distraction. Watch what the other hand is doing.

 

[Alaskaman11]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jaeger308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">General Amos is our Commandant and that is official Marine Corps P/C policy....Question what if Gen Mattis would have become our commandant what would the response have been? </div></div>

Hell, I'm not a marine, and even I could answer that question!

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ultimately it's just another distraction</div></div>

That's it, that's what its all about. It's (the staggered SS) a distraction to what the Marines Stand for.

Yes I know I'm not a marine, but don't tell me I don't understand, I'm a US Paratrooper, we play second fiddle to no one.

I want our image to be that of those who stood tall at Bastonge, not some image that offends but that defends.

 

[0481]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

^^^^^ well put.

 

[Alaskaman11]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

I see the fallout of this is Commandant changing the Scout Sniper name to some BS PC thing. Correct me if I'm wrong but at one time, did they now call it "Target Acquization teams " or some other bullshit name like that. God what would Chesty tell us to do!

 

[shark0311]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CitizenArrest</div><div class="ubbcode-body">People complain that the brass is showing cowardice for not standing up for what they really believe. But some people here too are as much cowards if not more. If you secretly admire the SS, say so! Don't hide behind ignorance or innocence, or great rhetoric for that matter. That's cowardly too!
There is such a thing as the first amendment in this country, in fact some of you fought for your own first amendment. So use it!
Be brave.
If you secretly admire the Nazis, say so! and let's call it a day. It's not math! It's much simpler.
</div></div>

Actually you are dead wrong. There is no place in the Corps for that shit.

 

[JRose]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

The best part about KISS using it, is that G. Simmons is a Jew.... I guess that means he hates himself, and supports the Nazi movement...

 

[Graham]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Seth8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The media has done NOTHING but harm to our military, this war and past wars.</div></div>Blaming the media is utter nonsense. Complaining about others - about whiners and pussies and political correctness - is simply a method by which the weak avoid accepting responsibility. I would expect that Marines would take responsibility, be honest, and explain the symbolism.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rogers0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can we go back to killing people and stop worrying about getting charged for peeing on bodies and what symbols we use?</div></div>The one is a prerequisite for the other. As a friend of mine put it: You are a hammer; you hammer the nail; you don't piss on the nail. If you can't hammer the nail without pissing on it the carpenter will put the hammer back in the toolbox. That said, I draw a distinction between war crimes and the use of symbolism that people find offensive.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rogers0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you were to walk in to a barracks room filled with any sniper platoon that I know of, and complain about how you are offended by the SS, you would honestly get beat up for the simple fact that you would look pathetically weak. The Scout Sniper community exists to kill people, and not care about who they offend. It is a community of alpha males. Again, if you are offended, you would simply appear weak, and any Scout Sniper platoon would pray on you faster then you could ever imagine. </div></div>If you were to walk into a meeting of Nazis and complain about the SS they might also <span style="font-style: italic">prey </span>on you. That makes them groupies, not Alpha males. Strength isn't about being a bully when your friends are around. Being a warrior is about doing what you have to do to get the job done. And being a professional is about showing maturity while doing it.