Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

#52
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

The funny thing is how easy the lever arms are to break . I got to page 15 on arfcom last night and saw where one guy used a adjustment strap on a ball cap to break one lever and a rubber band to break another one . I don't own anything A.R.M.s makes but after seeing how easy the lever snaps off I think I will stick with my Larue , Seekins and Badger stuff for mounting optics . I will probably never carry one of my weapons into battle but I tend to beat on shit when I use it and can't stand it when stuff fails me at the moment I most desperately want to use it .
 
#53
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael N</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The funny thing is how easy the lever arms are to break . I got to page 15 on arfcom last night and saw where one guy used a adjustment strap on a ball cap to break one lever and a rubber band to break another one . </div></div>

Ah..hem!!! I know that you're just reporting what you observed on another forum. But lets keep it real boys. That may be regular meat and potatoes on ARF.co... but!!!
 
#55
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A little off topic but.... Anyone know how I can get more DILLO DUST without ordering another $100+ item????? </div></div>

Just call them. It's great on squirrel!
 
#58
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

I think that Mark's c.n.c. boys will be busy for a while. I wonder if the Larue booth will have a heaping pallet of broken ARMS mounts at the 2010 SHOT show?
 
#59
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LaRueTactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JLharris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the suit in a nutshell:
ARMS patents #17 and makes a mount with that model #

Larue makes a LT-170 mount

ARMS sues.

Mark starts thwacking ARMS's nose over the internet at every possible moment. </div></div>

I want to play if this is the case. The sucky thing is that I had a Surefire light kit that wouldn't ride tight on any rail that I tried it on but no longer have it. I think I might have to break some A.R.M.S.

In a better nutshell ...

We were granted a patent for our system ... a good patent, that Swan & Friends immediately challenged. They got a couple of claims knocked-off, but the meat of the patent was left intact. That's what we build our stuff to, our own damn patent.

It appears to the casual observer, us, that after they didn't get the satisfaction of killing our patent, unbeknownst to us, they took the cheesy route of trademarking the numeral 17 and also the shape the shape of the old and well-used M139 / M140 boresight alinement device. The product ours looks like. A product of ours we call part numbers like LT-170, Lt-171, and LT-172.

The USPTO gives it to them ...could be related to the rumor they are using Indian nationals as contract folks for the patent office ... dunno.

Either way, without warning, they sued ... no cease and desist, no nothing, just sued.

It's on, and we're going all the way to the mat.

And unbeknownst to them, they ain't seen nuttin' yet.

LaRue </div></div>

Sad thing is that I had a weaponlight with a #17 mount that wouldn't ride tight on any picatinny rail I tried it on but unfortunately I don't have it anymore. I'm pretty sure that I have another one or two - Looks like I might need to go break some A.R.M.S.
 
#60
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

Not to go against the grain for the sake of it, but something tells me this is LaRue wanting to win this fight in the court of public opinion more than anything.
 
#61
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

I think that they are making no effort to hide that they are taking the fight to them - wherever it takes place is where Larue wants to beat them down badly. I think that it's the American way and applaud them for it.

I just wish I could break everything I had and get it replaced with Larue kit! They I'd have a few BUIS sets, riser rails, #17 mounts.....all replaced by a company who handles itself in a manner that I want to see more of in this country.
 
#63
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dtask</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that they are making no effort to hide that they are taking the fight to them - wherever it takes place is where Larue wants to beat them down badly. I think that it's the American way and applaud them for it.

I just wish I could break everything I had and get it replaced with Larue kit! They I'd have a few BUIS sets, riser rails, #17 mounts.....all replaced by a company who handles itself in a manner that I want to see more of in this country. </div></div>

+1000 ... well said.
 
#64
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

Never met Mark Larue personally, but I have his products. He's got my support, he fucking earned it. You should see the care package he sent with my order to here in Iraq.

He just seems like the KIND of guy I'd want making parts for my rifle. That takes a quite a bit of trust, when you think about it.
 
#65
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dogtown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to go against the grain for the sake of it, but something tells me this is LaRue wanting to win this fight in the court of public opinion more than anything. </div></div>

Precisely. The customer is the battleground and Larue has been very <span style="font-weight: bold">bold</span> in starting such a "battle-war". I doubt that any reciprocal offer from ARMS would have generated any similar response. Or even any response whatsoever.

Mark has to budget for large ##'s of replacement Larue mounts going out the door and absorbing the manufacturing and shipping costs for that. Given that he has a free t-shirts, free Dillos, etc. already. As a way to win customer loyalty. It goes without saying that his PRODUCT QUALITY is what REALLY does that.

Shooters who ship ARMS mounts will likely also see the B.S. involved in the lawsuit angle(setting aside the merits of the lawsuit-if it has any). They'd also likely see Larue as the victim here.

My only La(rue)mentation is that Larue doesn't ship to Canada!!
 
#66
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

I just suspect that there's more to this lawsuit than just what's being thrown out there. Granted, I think ARMS is lawsuit hungry, but if LaRue knowingly violated their patents, then that's another story. If indeed that's the case then he's making a smart move by controlling the debate by flooding the public market the way he is. So if he loses in court, he's still won in the court of public opinion if people believe he did nothing wrong and support him.

Does that make sense? Forgive me, but the skeptic in me starts running opposing scenarios in my head when I see such a one-sided response to an issue that's rarely so cut and dry.
 
#68
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

I hate stupid law suits... That is why I broke my ARMS mount... FUCK YO LAWYERS ARMS !

IMG_2779.jpg


IMG_2780.jpg


IMG_2781.jpg


Though i must say it was wierd purposely detatching my optics, unbolting the aimpoints, and intentionally breaking a mount that never gave me any problems.

 
#69
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phil1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I wonder if the Larue booth will have a heaping pallet of broken ARMS mounts at the 2010 SHOT show? </div></div>

Yeah this is the idea, he wants to shame ARMS. Mark has a huge ego, so my take is he'll spin this to his advantage and come out on top.

Love him or hate him, Mark really does make a better product.
 
#72
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

I think its a brilliant ad campaign whether the lawsuit goes in his favor or not . Mark has people falling all over themselves to document themselves breaking A.R.M.'s products and spreading the word all over the internet at the same time . He also gets a nice pile of broken A.R.M.'s products to flaunt under their nose and display for the whole world to see . All for a few grand in product which is probably a Heck of a lot less than he donates in the course of a year . By swapping out these products he also gets a roving band of salesman telling everyone how they came to be in posession of their Larue products . You cannot buy that kind of advertisement at any price .
 
#73
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What?!?

His request was for people TO INTENTIONALLY break there arms mounts and send them in.

(copied from original post)
"We are hereby offering to replace any A.R.M.S. mount that the owner intentionally breaks the M.I.M. lever off."
</div></div>

If that is what the man wrote, then so be it. I thought I read somewhere else a while back that Mark didn't want people smashing things. Oh well, smash away I guess.
 
#74
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

i have a 19, that has given me no problems, but i have noticed that the handles are awefully flimsy, i may have to send it in.
 
#75
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael N</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think its a brilliant ad campaign whether the lawsuit goes in his favor or not . Mark has people falling all over themselves to document themselves breaking A.R.M.'s products and spreading the word all over the internet at the same time . He also gets a nice pile of broken A.R.M.'s products to flaunt under their nose and display for the whole world to see . All for a few grand in product which is probably a Heck of a lot less than he donates in the course of a year . By swapping out these products he also gets a roving band of salesman telling everyone how they came to be in posession of their Larue products . You cannot buy that kind of advertisement at any price . </div></div>

+1000. Good luck to Mark and his crew for one hell of a marketing campaign. Not only do I wish for the lawsuit to go in his favor, but for this challenge to really rub it in ARMS face.
 
#78
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

I have broken my rear ARMS BUIS before and had to have it replaced ... the medal is just crap ... too bad the offer isnt for the BUIS also, i would be sending it in also ... oh well... cant wait to see pictures of all the broken mounts that Mark brings to SHOT Show...
 
#81
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

I almost want to buy an arms mount to break it and send it in the larue. Larue makes great products and supports the shooting and 2nd amendment communities more than most and it is appreciated.
 
#82
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

This has been around for a while now; I'm kinda surprised there are still dudes that don't know about this deal. I think I mentioned it in passing in a post over a month ago, and the replies seemed to have known about it.
 
#83
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

I called and you have to have pictures of it before it was broken and pics of it broken, and send it in with the mount to Larue Tactical. I am getting a new LT-101 then from them, as soon as I find my camera and my old arms mount. That just shows you how bad-ass Larue Tactical is and the confidence they have in their products.
 
#84
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

I have 2 sets of 30mm rings on the way and a #17S my Atlus is without a mount. The 30mm rings are loose on the rails so i had to shim the belvile washers on the lows and the highs are over 15 MOA to the left with the same scope on the same rifle on the same rail? dont know why but the just broke.

They are getting expressed mailes now back to the US and they will post to a friend there in the US cant ask for beter than that.
 
#85
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

this is a heck of campaign.
larue has the support of most of the shooting community.
if i had arms mounts, i'd be breaking them right now, but i only run larue.

i've never been a fan of patents (or IP in general)
you can literally be working simultaneously, but separately on the same technology, yet if the other guy beats you to the patent office by 1 second, you lose ALL rights to your work.
if we were to take IP seriously, we couldnt even talk, since someone else created the words we use.

sorry for the rant...
go larue!
 
#87
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

I have to say this is pretty funny. I'd participate except that I own zero ARMS hardware - one look at the rings years ago was enough to keep me away. On the other hand, I always found the LaRue products I've had to be up to par in fit and finish. There is definitely some meat to the beef here.
 
#88
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Witch Doctor</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nwsnowbum</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just wish Larue would make a replacement for my Elcan Specter DR </div></div>

That sucks, thats the one mount you can't swap out. </div></div>
LaRue doesn't make a STANAG to Picatinny rail mount that I know of. I use an ARMS mount to attach a Hensoldt 4x24 ZF scope with STANAG mount to a flat-top AR.

The ARMS dual-lever mount on my Specter DR works very well on spec rails, but not on all off-spec rails. A LaRue would have some adjustability and work on almost all rails.
 
#89
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

Yeah, patents can be really tricky. A few years ago I was part of a group that developed some software for a movie that required a lot of shared IP. The plan was to freely share the technology with the rest of the industry once we'd used it on a few projects because it was a niche deal. Unfortunately one of the guys on the team left the company after we wrapped the movie and stealth patented the core algorithms we developed. He made a killing last year suing a few companies for violating "his" patent.

Dick move if you ask me, especially considering that he contributed about 5% of the IP versus two others who contributed close to 75%. Sure, there are people who say we should have known better, but if you ask me he acted in bad faith. He knew he was going to screw us over and wanted to be the first to do so.

There are good reasons for patents, especially when they give the developer an advantage or niche in their industry - a reasonable payoff for the development cost and time. And yes, some patents are lame when they are such obvious things that should just be open source or are based on long accepted standards to begin with. So it's tricky because sometimes you just want to cheer on the guys who disregard what many perceive to be a BS patent and other times you just get pissed when a larger, more powerful group blatantly violates the patent because they know they can defeat the holder in court or sour the community on them.
 
#90
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

Agreed Dogtown. There needs to be a type of patent reform. I've seen to many cases of dick bags who patent something 10+ years ago and its just a idea. Then they do nothing with it, don't develop it nothing just a very broad idea on paper. Then they wait till a real company comes along actually develops it and markets it and gets successful etc.....and sue the shit out of them.

Which is what bugs me about this whole ARMS shit...how the fuck do you copyright/trademark/etc the number 17, or 5.56 or 7.62 etc. All he is doing is banking on the fact no one wants to go to court on this shit, once upon a time a reasonable judge would throw it out, but he'd still no a fair bit of damage to the cash reserves to the company.

I believe ML admitted that's why he changed the name of the OSR to the OBR....just easier to do that then get taken to court on the bogus BS claim from SWAN.
 
#91
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

I've been wishing I had gotten the A.R.M.S. mount with my Atlas, but I guess I didn't miss out on anything. What Larue part would be what I need for the Atlas bipod? The web page is a bit tough to figure out. Might as well buy one to help Larue out. I really hate stupid lawsuits.
 
#92
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mscott</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been wishing I had gotten the A.R.M.S. mount with my Atlas, but I guess I didn't miss out on anything. What Larue part would be what I need for the Atlas bipod? The web page is a bit tough to figure out. Might as well buy one to help Larue out. I really hate stupid lawsuits. </div></div>

Should be this one:
http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=44
 
#97
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

I love this. I have only bought applicable LaRue products after my first order included dillo, dillo dust, hat...etc. Then a Christmas Card! I think I might just step up, send him some cash, and order a mount for an ACOG that I've wanted to upgrade tomorrow.
 
#100
Re: Mark Larue has thrown down the guantlet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A little off topic but.... Anyone know how I can get more DILLO DUST without ordering another $100+ item????? </div></div>

PM me and I will ship some to you. I have 6 or 8 bottles of the stuff on the shelf.
 
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