Advanced Marksmanship Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

Sterling Shooter

Sterling Shooter

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 10, 2004
2,842
29
Louisville, Kentucky
#1
Sight Alignment and Trigger Control:

All shooting is the same.

Properly point the rifle at the target and pull the trigger without disturbing aim.

Begin with this fact: The bullet always goes in the direction the barrel is pointed.

How do you know where the barrel is pointed? Sight alignment.

Align front and rear sight with the eyeball positioned to where the tip of the front sight post appears centered in the rear aperture.

Make sight alignment consistent by anchoring the eyeball with a stockweld created by resting the full weight of the head on the comb of the stock.

Roll the cheek over the comb, creating a "chipmunk cheek".

Since sight misalignment is angular, increasing impact displacement with distance, alignment must be consistent.

Making alignment consistent is easy as it uses the eye's natural ability to center and balance things.

Keep focus on the tip of the front sight to understand exactly where the barrel is pointed.

Placing focus on the target is a distraction to good shooting, the target does not need to be sharp.

Move the body to adjust natural point of aim for the desired hold, the relationship between the front sight and target.

Place finger on trigger, where ever it's comfortable, to allow for the trigger to be pulled smoothly, so as not to disturb aim; and, follow through, continuing to aim with trigger remaining depressed until recoil has subsided.

Follow through assures aim remains consistent while the bullet is moving from chamber to muzzle.

Upon execution of the firing task, call the shot, that's to say, recall where the tip of the front sight post appeared to be in relationship with the target at the bullet's exit from the bore.

Plot the call, as well as the actual strike of the bullet in a score book.

Plotting calls and strikes creates a record for everything important to good shooting, allowing for efficient trouble shooting and shooter/target analysis.

Sight alignment and trigger control are supported by a steady position.
 
#2
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

Quick and to the point:

And people pay hundreds of dollars to schools to learn what you just posted.
 
#3
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Quick and to the point:

And people pay hundreds of dollars to schools to learn what you just posted. </div></div>

Problem is, reading it and being able to do it based on just reading it, are two different things. Reading it helps, but it's not always enough by itself.
 
#4
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

Hopefully this question is not too far off the original intent of this thread:

How proficient does one get at calling the shot, and are you able to call a specific resulting shot value?

No doubt this ability increases with skill and experience. I'm a new service rifle shooter and in general at this point need to throw an 8 or worse to call the shot outside of center. Granted all my on center calls aren't always there, but I'm getting better at recognizing them.

Signed up for a service rifle clinic and my first match next month, so not even yet a Marksman!

Thanks for posting this and the assistance.
 
#5
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

As someone who's passing through the stages of highpower, I can tell you that the #1 thing I've found to be instrumental to shot calling is having spot on zeroes for your load. Make absolutely positive your zeroes are within 0.5 MOA of their point of impact, and that you are shooting the same load every time. Then, assuming you're not flinching entirely or closing your eyes on the break
smile.gif
, shot calling becomes a breeze.
 
#6
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Quick and to the point:

And people pay hundreds of dollars to schools to learn what you just posted. </div></div>

And I have to say I have and will happily do so. Name a single discipline at any level where a proficient coach cannot elevate your game?
 
#8
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

I'll post "positions" soon. My intent here is not to teach or coach but rather to expose folks getting into any kind of shooting, and especially those who want to become really good at it, that there are concepts, which when understood to be important to it all, allow for progress.

Folks taking my BRM course usually remark after the dust has settled and the smoke has cleared, "gee, I didn't know any of this stuff".
 
#9
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

Sterling,

I think this is all very good information, however isn't it safe to say that long range shooting is one discipline where the bullet doesn't go where the barrel is pointed ?

Between Wind and Range, the drop and drift maybe be quite a distance off the target, both in the horizontal and the vertical planes. Max ord can put the bullet over 12ft above the LOS and the wind drift, can be over a 100" at a 1000 yards. So, saying it goes in the direction of the barrel is a bit deceiving.

Shooting a handgun the bullet goes where the barrel is pointed, but a rifle at distance, in the wind... things tend to veer a bit off course.
 
#10
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

I think Sterling is emphasizing something oft overlooked, that shooter error (flinches, angular offsets, pulling, etc.) is much more to blame than inherent rifle inaccuracy in most cases. Assuming the sights are mechanically correct for the distance and wind conditions, the point here is that a truly skilled shooter with a 2 MOA rifle will trump an unskilled one with a 1/2 MOA one, because shooter error (in all its myriad forms) can have a much more devastating effect on accuracy, and this is often the true cause. It's the classic story of an oldtimer beating all the youg'ins with his wooden rifle due to his perfection of the fundamentals.

The rifle is, in a sense, fairly "dumb". It will shoot where you point it. But "pointing it" is where it can all fall apart, and being a fundamentals man, I believe that is what he means
smile.gif
 
#11
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

Sterling's actual statement was, <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The bullet always goes in the direction the barrel is pointed.</div></div>

That's quite correct.

It just doesn't always <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">get</span></span> where the barrel is pointed.

With respect to the elevation, that's a good thing, as the barrel is pointed above the target, since it must compensate for that pesky gravity. Gravity is a relentless taskmaster.

With respect to the windage, that is sometimes a good thing and sometimes a bad thing.

It's the "sometimes" that's annoying.
laugh.gif

 
#12
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

Nice writeup. Very old-school, as in PMI school. Remembering old times "hitch hiking" the stock into the shoulder with the thumb, etc...

Mantras/pneumonics seem to help some new shooters remember everything. Plenty of times I've seen Marines on the 500 yard line with their sights set on 8/3.

"Sling-shot"
"Brass-check"
"Tap forward assist"
"Check the sights"
 
#13
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

Many times in the Civi world the rifle is more accurte than the shooter.
"know your gun." I know many people who need to read and take heed. That was the facts, plain and simple.
 
#14
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

Preaching the fundamentals is far from lost on me, and I agree with what he is saying, however it is vague references that tend confuse the mix by allowing a wide interpretation of the remarks.

shooter error can be wide and varied producing unpredictable results so a solid focus on the fundamentals is definitely the most important factor to successful employment of the precision rifle. no argument here.

However, we like to ask & answer, "why", it explains things in a way that helps the shooter understand the principals better.

 
#15
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

The bullet always goes in the direction the barrel is pointed. The bullet does not always go where aimed. Creating a relationship between the target and front sight, or a relationship between the reticle and target does not assure recognition for where the barrel is pointed.

Pointing the barrel to hit where aimed is key. In addition to sight alignment and trigger control, some knowledge of steady position, ballistics/trajectory, wind and weather, and zeroing are required. Perfecting skill with these concept allows for the demands of distance shooting.

Here's why the fact that the bullet always goes in the direction the barrel is pointed is so important for someone learning how to shoot, it forces the shooter to think. Since the bullet always goes in the direction the barrel is pointed, and strikes on target indicate where the barrel was pointed, then, if shots are not where they should be, it must mean only one thing, that the shooter did not know where the barrel was pointed. This is where shooter/target analysis begins. This is also when interest in the "gun" subsides to recognition that good shooting is all about the shooter.
 
#16
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

I think that the lesson always needs to be oriented toward the learner. As stated above, the rifle is often, maybe usually, more accurate then the shooter. There are exceptions, and this is generally not the audience the basic lesson is oriented toward.

Questions like 'why is the sky blue, Daddy' are quaint and heartwarming, but mainly serve only to delay the learning process. When the learner is getting up off their knees and taking their first steps is not the time to be explaining why the cha cha has a certain beat.

I strongly appreciate reading here, both from Charles, and from other who are trying to help. I am no exception to the rule, and can always benefit from sage and clear advice.

Yes, there will be some who nod and mutter, 'but...", and they are right to feel that way.

I think, however, that for the larger benefit of the larger audience, they may do well to practice reticence, and let the larger picture develop before they add their more cogent specifics.

The thing about The 'Hide that has always set it apart has been the alternatives and multiplicity of viewpoints, always freely expressed, always openly approved. If we were to lose that, we would be losing a large segment of the spirit of our community.

Greg
 
#17
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

Greg,

You alluded to it. There are folks coming here who want to learn about it all, but they come with a lot of baggage which is, for the most part, useless,, meaningless or a distraction to good shooting. These folks have had no coaching or have been coached by folks who don't know there's any difference between executing the firing task and actually knowing a thing or two about good shooting. Their basis of understanding is flawed by impressions made upon them from reading gun rag editorials and advertising.

Another thing you alluded to, although it should be obvious to all that the bullet always goes in the direction the barrel's pointed, it's not so obvious, it appears, recognizing that when the shot does not go where aimed it must have anything to do with the shooter not knowing where the gun was pointed, but rather something to do with the caliber, cleaning, or some other unfounded esoteric notion.
 
#18
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

We find the majority of people are just mimicking images they saw with very little understanding of the actual fundamentals.

The might know a basic test for NPA but they don't know what it means, follow through for guys the with the 1.5# triggers doesn't exist as they believe the light touch is the right touch, so I agree that Sterling is doing things correctly.

We're not working with guys with iron sights, but the principals to good shooting are the all same. At least 2 hours of our classroom is a focus on the fundamentals, and certainly the first day on the line is nothing but a reminder of those in practice.

There are some things I wish he would define a bit better, but then again it is marksmanship in a minute.

and fyi, you left out breathing, an often misunderstood fundamental.
 
#19
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

Breathing used to be considered a factor to a steady position, current doctrine from the USAMU leaves it out (SDM and BRM courses), on purpose, as most folks will screw it up just by thinking about it. Not thinking about it, apparently, better assures the shooter will shoot during the natural respiratory pause rather than hold it, stop it, or do something else to distract concentration on what's important.
 
#20
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

Basically, you have to start somewhere, and there are both logical starting points and logical progressions.

Keep it coming, Charles; it's like Mother's Milk to me...

Greg
 
#21
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

I agree it can be a distraction to some, but most come in with a preconceived notion of holding their breathe half way, so I would say mentioning it at least addresses it. In this case you have to also fight previous thinking on the subject, as few are coming in raw.
 
#25
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

I hope my post yesterday didn't come across wrong. I have come to this sight to expand what knowledge I have. I have recently got back into shooting and reloading. It just struck so true to things I have seen friends do when we are out. I'am not as sure behind two off the guns I own now as i was 10yrs ago. I have caught myself anticipating the recoil of the rifle and not doing as good as I can. When I stated know ur gun, I guess with my old .300wm and .300 weatherby I used them constantly and new with out a 2nd thought what to do to make the shot. Standing, a deer at 500yrds was not questioned,no flinch of recoil. Now I must learn my guns I own. 3 rifle limit. Practice! and challenge myself to know my guns! Sorry for rambling, and the orig post are the core to a good shot.
 
#26
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

Sterling:

All performance activities center around core fundamentals, music art, sport etc. No one succeeds without learning the fundamentals. No one excels at any without mastering the core fundamentals. The professionals masters spend as much or more time practicing these fundamentals than all else combined.

A list of the core fundamentals like this is an outstanding contribution to this sight. Thank you! I look forward to you posts on position.
 
#27
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

SS, please talk more about focus on the front sight and how the target doesn't need to be sharp.
When I shoot, I find myself constantly trying to shift my focus back and forth from front sight to target until I feel like I can "agree" that they're where they need to be and then fire....usually with poor results of course.
How do you tell when the "sharp" front sight post is positioned properly on the fuzzy target?
 
#28
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

Aim has two components, the first is sight alignment, that's the relationship between eyeball, front sight, and rear sight. The second component is hold, or sight picture, which describes the relationship between the front sight and target. There are three holds which are popular for target shooting when the target has an aiming bullseye. These holds are center of mass, 6 o'clock, and line of white. Any of these may allow for a consistent picture, so experiment to determine which, if any, of these in your situation will get you a better score.

Although focusing on the front sight will make the target blurry, a consistent relationship between target and sight with any one of the mentioned holds will nevertheless be possible if the rear aperture is small enough to give you good depth of field.

If you are confined to a standard military aperture, the small one on an M4 for example, a center of mass hold is appropriate for a multitude of reasons; but, mostly, the center of mass hold is required because the target is not likely a yardage scaled bullseye and the aperture is not small enough to eliminate blurring of any sort of target. Line of white or the 6 o'clock hold will just not allow for exact recognition for where the rifle is pointed. Finding exact center of mass on blurred is easy, just come into the target mass from its left or right side.
 
#29
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...will nevertheless be possible if the rear aperture is small enough to give you good depth of field.</div></div>

This is something I rarely see addressed enough.

I came to highpower and iron sight shooting from a fresh slate. I have always maintained a philosophy of seeing what works, understanding why, and adopting it if it makes sense. Just being doctrine was never good enough for me.

One of the things I obsessed over was the whole front sight aspect, mostly because results weren't jibing with the theory. You were "supposed" to have the target blurry, but no matter how well and sharp the front sight looked to me, I could still see the target with very resolved clarity! Had I magic eyes that afforded me two focal planes at once?

It was only when I popped the sight up to the patrol aperture (aka the ghost ring or "the big one") that everything became clear to me. Well, ironically, everything became blurry
smile.gif
. When using the ghost ring, there is no possible way to keep focus on the front sight and have the view in front of you be anything but a giant blur. It was then (along with some input from a local seasoned shooter) that I realized that what we had here was a simple case of elementary lens optics. The closer you'd get it to a pinhole camera (aka infinitely small aperture), the longer and better your depth of field would be. In other words, you CAN HAVE both in focus at once when you get a nice tight peep sight. Ok, perhaps they're not 100% matched in sharpness, but more like 60/40. So I *focus* on the front sight, to be sure, but I enjoy the ability to see the target clearly while I'm at it.

I wish this was addressed more in the standard manuals and marksmanship writeups. I much more take a "focus on sticking that front tip on the target" approach now than a "focus on the tip and make the target blurry" approach.

Before the doctrine hounds come out, the usual disclaimer - your mileage may vary, and go find what works for you.
 
#30
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

I think the term "sight picture" may help too. It is that the front sight is in clear focus over a consistent (but not clearly focused) background. It is not important which you choose - center ,six, line of white - as long as you can make it the same everytime. I like the idea about center coming in from the because this is very repeatable.

The "mind's eye" is actually very adept at this process if given a chance. Trying too hard to perfect the picture usually results in worse results. If instead you shoot as soon as the sight picture looks right the odds are good your score will improve. It is in fact common too shoot a better score rapid fire than slowly. The problem I have with center hold is my eyes cn;t see balck on black as line of white. If I try to just shoot as soon as a proper alignment with same line of white is there I score better.
Other will have to find wht their eye do best/fastest.
 
#31
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

Yes, the eye will naturally balance and center things.

When I shoot center of mass on a bullseye target I ignore the bullseye and just put the tip of the front sight in the center of the whole target. The target does not need an aiming bullseye for me to understand when the sight is on it. I'm disregarding the bullseye as it's a distraction to good shooting. It will pull your focus off the front sight if you let it; and, since it appears relatively small, it may undermine confidence that it can even be hit.

When I shoot a 6 o'clock hold, by placing my focus on the front sight, and by concentrating on it, the target will appear to be at the sight, as if it were a ball balanced on a post. This reduces the reality that the target is as distant as it may be, again, inspiring confidence that I can get a good hit. After all, it appears that the target is only inches away.

There are certainly many tricks and techniques to sight pictures which will provide for a mind set that the job can indeed be done; and, in fact, for many, shooting with irons is not seen as inferior to shooting with a scope. My own scores suggest that if any relationship can be established between the front sight and target, that's to say if the target can be seen at all, scores in the same arena as producible with a scope are probable. With an aperture front sight, I see no difference in scores between irons and scope.
 
#32
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

My Garand has a hooded match insert front sight, and I use the ring insert. These are not legal for Service Rifle competition, and reclassify the Garand as a Match Rifle. This rifle is about as far to the left of a Garand Match rifle as a home gunsmith can produce.

This sight configuration allows me to make maximum use of the eye's centering capability. Bull centered in ring, ring centered in peep.

Allows me to shoot to the realm of the rifle's best potential.

Makes the whole task simpler. It's my opinion that this sight arrangement allows me to shoot as well as I might with a telescopic sight.

Greg
 
#33
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

I use to do that at 600, using whats called as a "NAVY HOLD" where you have an equal ammount of white (from the target fram) on both sides and top of the front sight.

Worked good until there is snow on the ground.
 
#35
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

Hey Sterling, it's June. Can we get another minute!!

I'm new here and i'm not trying to introduce myself and wear my welcome out in one posting but I noticed that in the 2-3 years this site has under it's belt there are only 10 pages of people commenting on Marksmanship. Some of the equipment pages have 3 times that in just the last three months, over 20 times that in the same 3 years.

Are people here to talk shooting (skill) or just equipment (spend money)??

JUST SAYING....

btw, that was in no way disprepectful to any Marksmanship topics, there is just not enough of them.
 
#36
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

Buying equipment is easy.

Being good with it takes work. Most aren't willing to work at it and apply those skills on the range. Good gear or duty slot designation does NOT equal tactical and technical competence.

Paraphrasing G. Gordon Liddy after the botched Waco raid, "Black nylon and MP-5s do not make you the British SAS."

There is a wide difference between being able to afford and put together equipment suites and knowing how to get the most out of your gear's capacity and capability.

There is a reason there fewer than 4,000 civilian and 3,600 Army Distinguished Riflemen so designated since the Civil War. There are very few snipers because the official Army and National Guard schools and the Special Forces SOTIC/Sniper Course have only been around since 1987 and 1985 (respectively).
 
#37
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sinister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Buying equipment is easy.
</div></div>

I agree. I can only talk equipment for a very short time because it is such a small part of the whole equation.

My story is that I am Distinguished/P100 pistol and decided to pursue the Rifle Badge. 6 points down and training everyday for the others. I made NRA Master in the two years I've concentrated on rifle. Sterling's postings are always good. I was shocked at how few postings there are in this category.
 
#38
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

Just revisiting since this topic has popped back up to top.

The comment about the 'Navy Hold' is just sinking in at last. It's an interesting concept, I may want it try it with my Mossberg 44 .22LR.

Not quite sure why snow on the ground would be an issue. Perhaps someone could axplain that to me, since we get some of that from time to time up here in 'the great white North'...

Greg
 
#39
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

Its just the way it is Xcount. You are going to have more couchcommandos than real marksman on the internet...thats why they are on the net, cause they arent out practicing! Ever notice how many will talk about great groups, great abilities, how they would whup the guys on TopShot, etc but when you look at their profiles or check them out they dont have a single marksmanship credit to their name and probably dont even compete...but, as they will note, they can shoot the arsehole out of a fly at 1,500 yards every shot. Then they give you grief when you try to help out on the forums. Thus, a lot of folks dont even comment any more when it comes to such topics. Easier to argue over equipment. :)

If you got 6, you will get the rest. Enjoy the journey to the DR badge rather than the destination. I didnt as I focused so hard on getting it that I missed all the fun....got mine in 1 yr, start to finish, but still shoot EICs cause I can actually enjoy them now. :)

John
 
#40
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

John,
I hear ya. I got my pistol badge pretty quick. In rifle, I feel the competition is closer so even though i've shot well in matches, I didn't shoot well enough. Can't really be mad about that, you just practice and get ready for the next match. The days of "just shoot a master score and you'll be fine", don't apply anymore. It's gotta be almost high master where i'm at. Although one match I felt comfortable enough to give my neighbor 10 points while standing. yeah, would have had a silver that day. That one stings, since I haven't earned any points in over a year now. But it's all part of the ride, IF IT WAS EASY-EVERYONE WOULD DO IT.
I know i'll get there so it is easier to enjoy the rocky ride when you know you will arrive. I WILL GET MY BADGE ONSTAGE AT PERRY. Might be the only way I get to go up there!
 
#42
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

Greg:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not quite sure why snow on the ground would be an issue. Perhaps someone could axplain that to me, since we get some of that from time to time up here in 'the great white North'...</div></div>

Ref; the "frame" hold, like I mentioned, the ideal is to push the front sight up on the target (6X6 white target frame) where you have an equal amount of white around the front post. Like centering the post in the real sight, it's dern near automatic if you are looking at the front sight.

So it stards snowing, and there is white all around the target frame. It's hard to distingush the target frame from the back ground which is covered by snow. I've done most of my HP shooting for the Alaska National Guard. Our early and late matches were often in snow where you couldn't tell where the target frame quit and the white snow covered back ground started. Frame hold doesn't work here.

What's worse is shooting in heavy wet blowing snow, where the snow sticks to the target and completely covers the target frame, including the bullseye. Sometimes you have no aiming point at all until the first shot hits the frame and shakes the snow loose, not bad in rapid fire, but in slow fire sometime each shot is that way.

Sorry if a bit off topic. But in some lighting conditions and tired eyes the frame hold is handy, (if the whole world isnt covered with snow.
 
#43
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

I believe it is refered to in the Fundamentals of Marksmanship but thought it should be added here. I have read thru this thread and found (unless I totally missed it) little said about head position. You may have the rifle pointed in the right direction and your sight picture may also be what is said to be excellent but if your head position is incorrect you may still end up with a missed shot or a flyer. Head position is a critical part of good sight allingment, making sure that it is in the same exact place each time. Make sure you have the same amout of front sight in your rear apperature each time. Some folks put a mark at the bottom of the front sight to indicate they are maintaining the same, it will take someone to assist you in doing this.
 
#44
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I have read thru this thread and found (unless I totally missed it) little said about head position</div></div>

From SS' first post on this topic;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Roll the cheek over the comb, creating a "chipmunk cheek".</div></div>

Basicly, the whole weight of the head should rest on the stock, the "chipmunk cheek" is the means to tell if a shooter has the proper Cheek/Spotweld.
 
#45
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

Kraig, would you consider tht is all there is to head position? I agree you need a good cheek weld but it could still be in a different position? Not to agrue a point, just wanted to bring more attention to this aspect. Thanks
 
#46
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Kraig, would you consider tht is all there is to head position? I agree you need a good cheek weld but it could still be in a different position? Thanks</div></div>

No sir, not at all, but that's the start, then you couple your "cheek/spot weld" with sight alignment, (eye, rear sight, and front sight), again quoting SS:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Align front and rear sight with the eyeball positioned to where the tip of the front sight post appears centered in the rear aperture.</div></div>

The proper "cheek/spot weld" gives you a solid foundation. This helps in keeping your Sight Alignment, your follow through, your recovery, your natural point of aim.

Now, having said all that, I believe for the purpose of balance, the head has to be straight as possilbe. I know, this doen't make sense; how does one keep his head straight and lay it on the stock to get the chipmunk effect? Simple, adjust the stock up or down in the shoulder until you get the proper combination of head being straight (as possible) and resting it on the stock.
 
#48
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

I am always interested in learnig how to be a better shooter.

I would like to read more on trouble shooting and shooter/target analysis.

Some days I'm on and then the next time out I stuggle and it gets frustrating.

I know my gear and it's not the poroblem, so I have to think it's my errors that I see on the target...

More information and quality practice, will make me a better shooter.
Thanks
 
#49
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

Maybe it's just me, but I believe, when we practice alone, we tend to get sloppy with our fundamentals. Fundamentals do not change from gun to gun, from range to range, WE DO.

It's a head game, we don't take it serious when practicing alone, but its a whole differant ball game when you have a lot of people standing by, our egos want us to show off, so we concentrate.

Concentrating on the fundamentals is what causes us to improve.

What am I trying to say?, Don't Practice alone? No of course not, practice all you can, but if you had to practice in front of a group of your peers, you are gonna want to do it right or show off.

Where is the best place to do that? Matches, shoot every match you possibly can. An added benifit is you have people watching who will point out problems you may not notice.

Shooting schools are nice, many are great. But many of us can't afford to attend these schools, with the cost of instruction, travel, lodging, etc.

There are cheaper alternatives out there. CMP GSM & HP Clinics, are cheap if they charge any thing at all, taught by Master Instructors who have to provide proof of their qualificats prior to be accepted in the course to become MIs.

Even small bore is an exceptional tool in inproving your rifle shooting. Don't sell Rimfire Sporter Events short. ISU is great also but its an expensive sport.

Basicly I'm saying, in additional to your normal practice, shoot every match you can, don't limit it to F-Class if shooting a Bolt gun, or High Power if shooting a Service Rifle. Shoot everything, even pistol.

Shoot the matches listen to the advanced shooters, even if not talking to your, ease drop when they talk to someone else.

Team matches are great, they allow you to shoot under a coach. Plus if shooting a team match find a good team, (I did this for the AMU team at 29 Palms) volenteer to do the scoring for them. That allows you to set next to the coach with a spoting scope and watch and listen while he calles condition changes.

This all sounds simple, but its cheap and it works if you keep your eyes and ears open.
 
#50
Re: Marksmanship in a Minute, Service Rifle Shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe it's just me, but I believe, when we practice alone, we tend to get sloppy with our fundamentals. Fundamentals do not change from gun to gun, from range to range, WE DO.

It's a head game, we don't take it serious when practicing alone, but its a whole differant ball game when you have a lot of people standing by, our egos want us to show off, so we concentrate.

Concentrating on the fundamentals is what causes us to improve.

What am I trying to say?, Don't Practice alone? No of course not, practice all you can, but if you had to practice in front of a group of your peers, you are gonna want to do it right or show off.

Where is the best place to do that? Matches, shoot every match you possibly can. An added benifit is you have people watching who will point out problems you may not notice.

Shooting schools are nice, many are great. But many of us can't afford to attend these schools, with the cost of instruction, travel, lodging, etc.

There are cheaper alternatives out there. CMP GSM & HP Clinics, are cheap if they charge any thing at all, taught by Master Instructors who have to provide proof of their qualificats prior to be accepted in the course to become MIs.

Even small bore is an exceptional tool in inproving your rifle shooting. Don't sell Rimfire Sporter Events short. ISU is great also but its an expensive sport.

Basicly I'm saying, in additional to your normal practice, shoot every match you can, don't limit it to F-Class if shooting a Bolt gun, or High Power if shooting a Service Rifle. Shoot everything, even pistol.

Shoot the matches listen to the advanced shooters, even if not talking to your, ease drop when they talk to someone else.

Team matches are great, they allow you to shoot under a coach. Plus if shooting a team match find a good team, (I did this for the AMU team at 29 Palms) volenteer to do the scoring for them. That allows you to set next to the coach with a spoting scope and watch and listen while he calles condition changes.

This all sounds simple, but its cheap and it works if you keep your eyes and ears open.</div></div>

I think that what Kraig says is true. In addition, I think that Service Rifle competition, as governed by the CMP, or the NRA, is a venue which can help a shooter get to a higher plateau of good shooting than possible without such engagement. Service Rifle forces the mindset to become compliant to all that is important to good shooting. Also, sometimes aids to good shooting will cause shooters to think they know how to do it, when, in fact, they may know nothing about it. That's what happens when an Aimpoint goes on rifle. Suddenly the shooter can hit what he's aiming at even though he does not know the first two things about shooting.

For anyone who wants to reach the highest plateaus, buy a match conditioned Service Rifle with sling, a spotting scope and stand; and, using a score book to help with analysis, with practice, you'll become an amazing shooter.
 
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