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Missing 777
- Thread starter gimpy
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An interesting(albeit dense) read: How I Narrowed Down The Location Of Malaysia Air Using "Monte Carlo" Data Models ? Co.Labs ? code + community
Things that make you say Hmmm... did they just say they shot down a Malaysian Airline in the Ukraine/Russian borderland
Dunno if any MANPADs have the ass to hit an airliner at FL330.
Associated Press reporting a Russian Buk air defense system is what shot it down; that would be a SA-11 or SA-17, I think?
Associated Press reporting a Russian Buk air defense system is what shot it down; that would be a SA-11 or SA-17, I think?
Really? Have I missed something or are we not allowed to malign the Great Mother Russia now? Does this include despot countries as well? No more talking about North Korea, Iran, Syria, and on and on?
Most likely a BUK. From what I've heard, they brought a lot of Tonka Toys to and over the border. I don't think that the Ukes have equivalent stuff.
Hmm i think this is a go as long as you do not talk about domestic probl...censored... or owned puppets. So wording like evil communists from Russia shot down airplane and butchered all those who survived the initial crash is ok but discussion about owning certain puppets currently occupying Kiev or instigating trouble in the first place might be a no no.
As to the real world every system bar shoulder launched puppies has a basic tracking (it has to track to hit anyway) info such as altitude, speed, general direction and there is no way in hell this shot down was accidental or civilian airplane mistaken for military jet. Though i wonder in the first place why is combat zone not closed of for civilian traffic...makes you go hmm...
As to the real world every system bar shoulder launched puppies has a basic tracking (it has to track to hit anyway) info such as altitude, speed, general direction and there is no way in hell this shot down was accidental or civilian airplane mistaken for military jet. Though i wonder in the first place why is combat zone not closed of for civilian traffic...makes you go hmm...
Well, this one isn't missing. At least that's something!
This stuff is going to get interesting in a hurry, methinks.
Sympathies to the lost as well as to their their families/friends. I heard on the news the statement by the Dutch (Prime Minister? President? Head of state?) that there were a bunch of Dutch tour groups/kids on that flight. Noone deserves this stuff.
Sirhr
This stuff is going to get interesting in a hurry, methinks.
Sympathies to the lost as well as to their their families/friends. I heard on the news the statement by the Dutch (Prime Minister? President? Head of state?) that there were a bunch of Dutch tour groups/kids on that flight. Noone deserves this stuff.
Sirhr
No one wins. IMHO, this is a Vodka fueled, want another notch on the old launcher, trigger happy FU. Russian operators have been shooting down aircraft in that area lately and saw a chance for another. As soon as they realized they shot down a civi plane, they took over the crash site and blocked all access to it. Just my guess.
haha was going to give my two cents on the OP, but now I have no idea where were at. Moving on!
"There more to this story than is being, or may ever be told. "
I agree 100%, unfortunately that is true of everything happening worldwide these days.
I agree 100%, unfortunately that is true of everything happening worldwide these days.
IMO it wasn't some conspiracy, it was an epic fuckup on the part of somebody that wanted to kill another Ukrainian transport.
The plane was reportedly 1000' above the top of the restricted airspace, on or along a routing MANY European and American airlines have been using even in the last few days.
The plane was reportedly 1000' above the top of the restricted airspace, on or along a routing MANY European and American airlines have been using even in the last few days.
Malaysian airline shot down by ?Buk? missile system, verified in possession of pro-Russian militants | EUROMAIDAN PRESS | News and Opinion from Across Ukraine
Floating about on Youtube, there's also what's purported to be cell intercepts between various pro-Russian parties concerning the shoot-down. The recording is shrouded in controversy because of the perception that certain accents are not as they should be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvHmf1U5NuY
Floating about on Youtube, there's also what's purported to be cell intercepts between various pro-Russian parties concerning the shoot-down. The recording is shrouded in controversy because of the perception that certain accents are not as they should be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvHmf1U5NuY
When there are thousands of men with guns who are pissed and in close proximity then bad stuff happens. In Iraq the freakin army patriot guys actually shot down two friendlies, a Brit and a US Navy F-18, and would probably have shot down an F-16, except in that case the F-16 fired a HARM missile that killed the patriot radar. Why were they so trigger happy when there was exactly zero chance an enemy fighter was gonna get anywhere near them? Who the hell knows, they were there for theater ballistic missile protection and on radar an aircraft looks nothing like a ballistic missile but there you go...if you are in a combat zone and aren't squawking the right codes or following the expected routing then a guy with no common sense might shoot you. If they are patriot guys they might shoot you even if you are doing those things.
So in my mind, the real question is who is the Idiot that decided it was worth the gas savings to fly through a damn warzone rather than avoid the Ukraine? There have been air to air battles and shoot downs of fighters there this week...does no one on the planet pay attention to what is going on in the world except the Hide bear pit crew here? Oh, and 1000' above the restricted airspace, lol...let's keep the war in the restricted airspace...right.....
SAMs don't care what the NOTAMs say. Flying commercial airliners in proximity to a shooting war is, and always will be, beyond stupid.
So in my mind, the real question is who is the Idiot that decided it was worth the gas savings to fly through a damn warzone rather than avoid the Ukraine? There have been air to air battles and shoot downs of fighters there this week...does no one on the planet pay attention to what is going on in the world except the Hide bear pit crew here? Oh, and 1000' above the restricted airspace, lol...let's keep the war in the restricted airspace...right.....
SAMs don't care what the NOTAMs say. Flying commercial airliners in proximity to a shooting war is, and always will be, beyond stupid.
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I hope this wont become Lusitania no. 2.
The Russians are bad guys, we all can agree for the most part I think. However the gov`t in Kiev doesnt seem like a group we should be allies with either. Who`s to say Ukraine didnt do this on purpose to try and draw more countries into it? Not saying thats what happened, but I dont think its outside the realm of possibility.
Kinda like Bosnia in some ways(though not nearly as genocidal I guess) in that there definitely is not a clear cut good guy. Im not speaking of the Ukranian people, but the gov`t in Kiev and the gov`t in Moscow.
The Russians are bad guys, we all can agree for the most part I think. However the gov`t in Kiev doesnt seem like a group we should be allies with either. Who`s to say Ukraine didnt do this on purpose to try and draw more countries into it? Not saying thats what happened, but I dont think its outside the realm of possibility.
Kinda like Bosnia in some ways(though not nearly as genocidal I guess) in that there definitely is not a clear cut good guy. Im not speaking of the Ukranian people, but the gov`t in Kiev and the gov`t in Moscow.
FAA issues a NOTAM today forbidding US flagged aircraft from the Ukraine/Russia border region. Were they prior? I don't know, but jet-A is expensive so some companies may have risked it. I know for a fact that in the early days of OEF (Nov-Jan 01) airliners from 3rd world were flying routes inside 50 miles of the Afg/Paki boarder-I saw them every sortie. It is busy airspace, both Paki and Ukraine. It would take serious cahones to try a false flag of this nature. My bet is a "weapons free" SAM operator without a full IADs picture made a really bad call. I just hope this thing doesn't start a spiral. Just like Fred Thompson's character in Hunt for Red October said, "this is how wars start!"
I'm sure everybody will beat around the bush because nobody wants to just come out and say it, but basically the Russians are in the Ukraine waging war to expand Mother Russia and we pretend that since they are not wearing Russian flags on their uniforms they are not Russian Army. (Pretty much the same play as in Crimea)
So the Russian false flag troops have some pretty good hardware at their disposal & were having fun shooting down anything Ukrainian that they could reach & accidentally shot down a civilian plane full of westerners. And of course once they realize what they did, take down all their previous social media posts, grab the black boxes and get them safely back inside Russia as quickly as possible.
So everybody can try to buy time by playing the stupid game, but eventually just about everybody will have put 2 and 2 together and then what? It will be way too interesting to watch all the spineless politicians squirm away trying to figure out how to do nothing while looking like they are doing something.
So the Russian false flag troops have some pretty good hardware at their disposal & were having fun shooting down anything Ukrainian that they could reach & accidentally shot down a civilian plane full of westerners. And of course once they realize what they did, take down all their previous social media posts, grab the black boxes and get them safely back inside Russia as quickly as possible.
So everybody can try to buy time by playing the stupid game, but eventually just about everybody will have put 2 and 2 together and then what? It will be way too interesting to watch all the spineless politicians squirm away trying to figure out how to do nothing while looking like they are doing something.
http://www.nytimes.com/video/world/...intercepted-audio-of-ukraine-separatists.html
Veers video with translation.
Veers video with translation.
Actually is rather the opposite its the US is in war with Russia and fighting another proxy war using Ukrainian nazis and soldouts (bankers, wankers and oligarchs) to try to bring NATO one step closer to Russia and grab its resources either by political coup (5th column comprising of Amnesty International and similar "non government" agencies) or by force (by forcing a war and/or military coup inside Russia which might bring to power people similar to Ukraine's leadership atm). Just so to be on record since we are calling spade a spade.
For anyone interested in "Russian propaganda" -> The Vineyard of the Saker for the rest i guess its better to be stuck with this and not burden your brain with unclean thoughts or information not sanctioned by Ministry of Truth.
Thanks but i don't do drugs while on the other hand cheerios did all the damage they could so unfortunately i don't have any sound advice for you.
Also forgot to mention Ukies already did something similar to TU-154 in 2001 and we won't go into Vincennes battle record. Now the question remains is it Russia 1, US 1, Ukraine 1, Rebels 1 or is it Russia 1(2!??!), US 1(2??!?), Ukraine 2, Rebels 0.
I would assume operating S-300 (Russia only) or Buk (Ukies and 1 captured for rebels in unknown state) will take a crew of at least 10-20 men with particular training and that while military hardware tends to be like Lego these systems are not so user friendly to enable mere peasants to connect few cables and press few buttons and voila plane shot down. If this is correct (and very probably it is) then persons manning these systems deliberately shot down a plane cruising at high altitude with constant speed which is either deliberate or accidental (mistaking passenger airplane with something along the Su-24/27 or IL-76 which have service ceiling at that altitude for example AN-26 does not have it as it flies much lower) but again i have no clue as to the Buk capabilities to display info on radar signatures or picking up commercial transponders - which i'm about 99.999999% that this capability is present).
It simply does not add up:
- civilian planes not diverted from warzone,
- a plane flying out of it usual route regardless of point 1,
- missing tracking data (check web on it) on airliner,
- why downing plane at 10k while being under attack from planes flying much lower and having such system operational would bring more benefit targeting planes attacking than those clearly transitioning at high altitude,
- who gains most from such an incident especially on the verge of massive defeat and personnel loss.
Also forgot to mention Ukies already did something similar to TU-154 in 2001 and we won't go into Vincennes battle record. Now the question remains is it Russia 1, US 1, Ukraine 1, Rebels 1 or is it Russia 1(2!??!), US 1(2??!?), Ukraine 2, Rebels 0.
I would assume operating S-300 (Russia only) or Buk (Ukies and 1 captured for rebels in unknown state) will take a crew of at least 10-20 men with particular training and that while military hardware tends to be like Lego these systems are not so user friendly to enable mere peasants to connect few cables and press few buttons and voila plane shot down. If this is correct (and very probably it is) then persons manning these systems deliberately shot down a plane cruising at high altitude with constant speed which is either deliberate or accidental (mistaking passenger airplane with something along the Su-24/27 or IL-76 which have service ceiling at that altitude for example AN-26 does not have it as it flies much lower) but again i have no clue as to the Buk capabilities to display info on radar signatures or picking up commercial transponders - which i'm about 99.999999% that this capability is present).
It simply does not add up:
- civilian planes not diverted from warzone,
- a plane flying out of it usual route regardless of point 1,
- missing tracking data (check web on it) on airliner,
- why downing plane at 10k while being under attack from planes flying much lower and having such system operational would bring more benefit targeting planes attacking than those clearly transitioning at high altitude,
- who gains most from such an incident especially on the verge of massive defeat and personnel loss.
Dont go placing total blame on Russia for getting us to this point. Im speaking of the broader global situation not the shootdown.
An amateur has poured gasoline on a world, that in the best of times, lives wiith a thin coating of ash covering hot burning embers.
If you want to see the real cause every other voter should take one step forward, last two in line both step forward. Sadly this crime will be the next layer of camouflage for the bumbler to use as a distraction from his record and a furtherance of his sickening aims.
Id imagine Israel will go offline soon. Eastern Europe, as expressed by Poland, is already deciding they must rely on themselves alone. Im sure other allies feel similar but just wont say it.
Not to be melodramatic but ironic to think what was happening 100 years ago.
An amateur has poured gasoline on a world, that in the best of times, lives wiith a thin coating of ash covering hot burning embers.
If you want to see the real cause every other voter should take one step forward, last two in line both step forward. Sadly this crime will be the next layer of camouflage for the bumbler to use as a distraction from his record and a furtherance of his sickening aims.
Id imagine Israel will go offline soon. Eastern Europe, as expressed by Poland, is already deciding they must rely on themselves alone. Im sure other allies feel similar but just wont say it.
Not to be melodramatic but ironic to think what was happening 100 years ago.
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Christmas turkeys have to stretch their skins mightily in order to beat you for bovine excrement capacity.
Multiple carriers have been using the very same flight path without alteration for quite a while. It was only hours before the flight that flight paths extending beyond the Ukrainian border were closed by Russia.
Consider the NYT graphics: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-crash-of-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh17.html
Read: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/19/world/europe/malaysia-airlines-plane-ukraine.html
Read some more: Air India flight with 126 on board was right behind MH 17 - The Times of India
Stolen from friends...
This is a routing used by at least one major US airline within the last few days (Crimea is around OLGIN/INSER)
Here is traffic post-MH17:
As for "missing track data"...folks, FlightAware is FAR from being a 100% complete, accurate depiction of what an airplane is doing or has done...trust me.
This is a routing used by at least one major US airline within the last few days (Crimea is around OLGIN/INSER)
Here is traffic post-MH17:
As for "missing track data"...folks, FlightAware is FAR from being a 100% complete, accurate depiction of what an airplane is doing or has done...trust me.
Reportedly, the flight was deviating north for weather. I have no idea if that report is accurate.
Point being, lots of western airliners were using that airspace prior to MH17 (most likely) falling victim to somebody who thought they were shooting down another Ukrainian IL-76...
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Anyone pick up on the irony of the thought (to paraphrase) that "its Russias responsibility to secure its borders and its within Russias capability to do so and in that context, allowing materials and fighters across its borders makes Putin responsible for the downing of the jet"
Maybe people in glass houses...........
Maybe people in glass houses...........
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IF:
Russian rebels launched a BUK missile, that crew is already dead.
Any other witnesses to launch are already dead.
Mid-Management is already dead.
That's just how they roll.
Russian rebels launched a BUK missile, that crew is already dead.
Any other witnesses to launch are already dead.
Mid-Management is already dead.
That's just how they roll.
Reportedly, the flight was deviating north for weather. I have no idea if that report is accurate.
Point being, lots of western airliners were using that airspace prior to MH17 (most likely) falling victim to somebody who thought they were shooting down another Ukrainian IL-76...
That is correct. Airlines have been flying over war zones including Somalia, Congo, Afghanistan,etc. for decades. NY times has a story now where 2/3 of recent airline tracks were flying right over that same area.
The idea that some bohunk, pierogi, eating Ukrainians picked up a sophisticated SAM system and were able to fire it up and target this 777. Without Russian technical assistance is not plausible.
"U.S. Air Force General Philip Breedlove said it was a completely false Russian narrative that it was only Ukrainians rebelling in the east of their country, saying it was clear that special forces troops from Russia were operating there as they did in Crimea before its annexation.
"Remember that (Russian President Vladimir) Putin denied their presence and now he has admitted to their presence in Crimea. The same thing will come out of Ukraine as time rolls out," he told a military and diplomatic audience in Ottawa.
"Exactly what we saw in Crimea is being mirrored in eastern Ukraine," added Breedlove."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/05/us-ukraine-crisis-nato-idUSBREA440TI20140505
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No matter who pulled the trigger, it will just be swept under the carpet and nearly 300 lives still erased for what? A political chess move.
I dunno, planes do crash from time to time.
As for the missile thing, I find it interesting that the WH is quick to say that it is a BUK and walk all around the concept that somehow Russia is responsible.
I am having a hard time following the chorus of the song where Russia somehow stands to gain from this….it is the Dollar that is threatened by the actions of the BRICs and principally Russia…if conflict could be started that shakes Russia creditworthiness the Dollar is bolstered.
Besides from what I am reading Russia simply intends to re-route their pipelines around the Ukraine so as to pick up their marble and walk away - leaving the EU and the US to hold that bag of shit (debt).
Best part? You & me - little people - will never know the truth.
As for the missile thing, I find it interesting that the WH is quick to say that it is a BUK and walk all around the concept that somehow Russia is responsible.
I am having a hard time following the chorus of the song where Russia somehow stands to gain from this….it is the Dollar that is threatened by the actions of the BRICs and principally Russia…if conflict could be started that shakes Russia creditworthiness the Dollar is bolstered.
Besides from what I am reading Russia simply intends to re-route their pipelines around the Ukraine so as to pick up their marble and walk away - leaving the EU and the US to hold that bag of shit (debt).
Best part? You & me - little people - will never know the truth.
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Reports of looting:
MH17 eyewitness accounts emerge of the horror that unfolded at crash site | Mail Online
I've also seen unconfirmed information that bodies have been stacked like potato sacks on trucks and removed from the site by those who consider themselves to be "in charge," absent recognized Ukrainian state authority. Ransom, anyone?
Absolutely disgusting ...
MH17 eyewitness accounts emerge of the horror that unfolded at crash site | Mail Online
I've also seen unconfirmed information that bodies have been stacked like potato sacks on trucks and removed from the site by those who consider themselves to be "in charge," absent recognized Ukrainian state authority. Ransom, anyone?
Absolutely disgusting ...
Expert claims Flight MH370 pilot 'deliberately turned off passengers' oxygen supply' before ditching into sea
If true, it's a bit gilding the lily, because the pax & FA's partial rebreather masks are so inefficient, even if anyone still were conscious @FL350 (in a depressurized cabin), they wouldn't have been if they did anything to work up a sweat. Like trying to bash in the cockpit door.
Decision-making is an early victim to hypoxia, so it isn't likely anybody but the FO would have been cued in to what was happening (presuming he was out of the cockpit when the captain dumped the cabin), until they began falling asleep. Even if he commandeered one of the FA's walk-around bottles, they are handicapped with the same mask, so his assault -- if any -- on the post-9/11 reinforced cockpit door would have been short-lived.
Many dispute the claim the a/c briefly climbed to FL440, but it is plausible the captain might deliberately have done this in response to the FO trying to beat in the cockpit door, because he knew it would cause him to pass out all the sooner.
The only way the documented facts of this story make sense is if it ends in the words, "Allahu Akbar."
If true, it's a bit gilding the lily, because the pax & FA's partial rebreather masks are so inefficient, even if anyone still were conscious @FL350 (in a depressurized cabin), they wouldn't have been if they did anything to work up a sweat. Like trying to bash in the cockpit door.
Decision-making is an early victim to hypoxia, so it isn't likely anybody but the FO would have been cued in to what was happening (presuming he was out of the cockpit when the captain dumped the cabin), until they began falling asleep. Even if he commandeered one of the FA's walk-around bottles, they are handicapped with the same mask, so his assault -- if any -- on the post-9/11 reinforced cockpit door would have been short-lived.
Many dispute the claim the a/c briefly climbed to FL440, but it is plausible the captain might deliberately have done this in response to the FO trying to beat in the cockpit door, because he knew it would cause him to pass out all the sooner.
The only way the documented facts of this story make sense is if it ends in the words, "Allahu Akbar."
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what ever happened with the theory that the dead SEALs found on Maersk Alabama wers somehow tied to "suspicious cargo bound for MH317?
" this report continues, was that within 24-hours of off-loading this “highly suspicious” cargo load bound for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, the two highly-trained US Navy SEALS assigned to protect it, Mark Daniel Kennedy, 43, and Jeffrey Keith Reynolds, 44, were found dead under “suspicious circumstances.”
" this report continues, was that within 24-hours of off-loading this “highly suspicious” cargo load bound for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, the two highly-trained US Navy SEALS assigned to protect it, Mark Daniel Kennedy, 43, and Jeffrey Keith Reynolds, 44, were found dead under “suspicious circumstances.”
I think it was hijacked by Elvis and Jim Morrison who were determined to fly it to see the Dali Lama but it ran out of gas and gravy before they could land.
Conspiracy theories... what fun! The aluminum shavings that are left of that plane will show up when they finally get around to draining the Pacific in order to find Amelia Earhart.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Conspiracy theories... what fun! The aluminum shavings that are left of that plane will show up when they finally get around to draining the Pacific in order to find Amelia Earhart.
Cheers,
Sirhr
I had a theory that this jet made it to Africa and landed. I figured if it did there would magically have to be some reason for boots on the ground over there. Well, magically there needs to be 3000 troops sent to Liberia for the "ebola" outbreak that we have been repeatedly told for the last 3 weeks that "this is a world wide threat". Just sayin'.
Have a couple cups of decaf, take off the tinfoil hat, and use some critical thinking skills.
Even IF that airplane was in Liberia, why would it require 3000 "boots on the ground" instead of using MUCH lower profile SOF (some of which are already operating in Africa) to secure the aircraft?
Furthermore, while the 777 is a long range aircraft, ML370 was fueled to fly from Kuala Lampur to Beijing. KL to anywhere in Liberia (and there are only a couple of airports capable of handling a 777 in the entire country) is more than 2.5x that distance, meaning there's no way it would have had enough range to get that far.
We built tons of airstrips in Africa large and small in ww2. There is also no clearance needed to fly into many parts of Africa either. They could easily go wherever they want from anywhere in Africa. As far as the 777, that one was headed to Somalia or Madagascar. It was spotted by many people in the Maldives going that direction. Make no mistake. It is our current battleground, tinfoil or no tinfoil.
