Mk 13 Mod 0 stock

[sandwarrior]

Buffalo,

That's pretty interesting stuff. We started wearing Gore-tex and polypropelene in '83 I know I went to Ranger school at the end of '82 with wool/cotton shit and froze my ass off.. Exception being the M65 Field jacket. It would at least keep you dry. In Florida in the winter, I got hypothermia so bad, I was like 88 deg. when they brought me in. After I got through Ranger School, we went on deployment to Wisconsin,where complete sets of Gore-tex Jackets and poly underwear and mid weight liners were issued. Ohhhhh, it was so much warmer being dry after you moved and sweated in sub-zero weather. At the end of that deployment we had to turn it all in. Article 15's threatened for anyone who washed their stuff. "You'll ruin it!" Putting it in a dryer is what ruins it. It was funny, one old-timer PSG insisted his guys wear their t-shirts and underwear (if they got 'em) under the poly...which negates the entire point of wearing it.

The knife issue was a big one in the Ranger Bn in the early '80's. Our colonel, who shall not be mentioned, (those of you who know him, knew this) gave an order that "No personal knives shall be carred. You will carry the M7 Bayonet on the right rear of your LCE in a M8 sheath" Further clarification was that no personal knife will be carried in a sheath on either your trousers belt, or your LCE. But GODDAMN if that mofo didn't carry his custom Randall on his LCE! His reason? It was a gift for being an advisor in VN. I had no problem with the rule....unless he broke it himself. Vests were being tested in SF, and we even got to try some. The scorn though, if you got something and the rest of the Bn wasn't issued it. Even if it's just being tested. Down in the tropics, most guys thought the vests were too hot. The netting holding your fatigues in tight, didn't let enough heat out. A lot of getting away from VN equipment, which most of which was barely an improvement over WWII stuff.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

We had a huge variety of custom and foreign weapons in our arms room.

This is the S.F. Berlin Det. c. 1977. No Welrod in the picture... but they had Welrod's, Sten's, Skorpions... and, yes, sniper weapons. You name it.

For a good read, look up the book: Special Forces Berlin. Available on Amazon. Pardon my shameless plug. But it's for a good cause!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[USMCSGT0331]

Cases just arrived at my parent's house (didn't have room for them in my apartment) and my father sent me these pics. Look at the second case from the top in the first pic, I never knew that the Prez was a former SEAL!!! Lol

 

[sirhrmechanic]

You are going to make me beg, aren't you?

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[buffalowinter]

 

[RWSGunsmithing]

Must have!!!

 

[sirhrmechanic]

So tomorrow at 9 am.... I am,meeting AJ Brown. Dropping,off parts... Talking about the build.

Turns oit we know a few of the same people at Crane as I used to do a,lot of work there through GD. I took an armorers course there in 2004 which he later taught. By I missed him as my instructor by 18 months. Great class. Two week delve onto all the small arms the USN deployed at the time.

The funny thing is that my pd would not recognize it as a bona fide course, so I had to do a 1 day session run by some Moon-pie sucking boozle from Colt to get a certificate... Four days on m16...from the guys who created SOPMOD... and Mr. Colt "Listen while I read from this manual" was more valid.

Well I digress. Greetings from Indiana. You can watch your dog run away for three days here.... And they call these hills....

Cheers, Sirhr

 

[sandwarrior]

You are going to make me beg, aren't you?

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Cheers,

Sirhr

If begging doesn't work, go straight to biting..lol

FWIW, I laugh when I think of a conversation I was having with a Coloradan, me being from Nevada, about mountains. We were in Minnesota, and this guy from there says, "If ya wanna see big mountains, ya gotta go up to da Nort shore der...". Really?

 

[Triggered]

I'm always a little late to the party for things in life, this being no exception.

Looks like I need to come up with a good Win Mag recipe

I am also (hopefully) having Alan Brown assemble my rifle as Sirhr visits with him today.

If anyone wants to get saucy with barrel options (Mod 0 / 5 / 7), Carson Lilja has supplied me with the links to their technical specs for the barrels on their website. The wait time on the Mod 0s and 5s are about 12 weeks, whereas the 7s are kept on hand.

Besides a 0.5" increase in the chamber surface and a slight taper in the last 2" of the barrel, the Mod 7 and Mod 0 are virtually identical. I may opt for the Mod 7 so I am not waiting 3 months for the barrel, depending on Alan's approval of it working in the stock.

Huge shout out to USMCSGT0331 for being a) generally great guy who has a passion for these rifles and b) an awesome individual to do business with. Highly recommend for the future.

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/c1.staticflickr.com\/5\/4195\/35369126946_0159c4c465_b.jpg"}[/IMG2]1 by ScooterFJ40, on Flickr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

So had a very fun meeting with Alan this morning.... we ended up talking and hanging out for about 2 hours. We definitely knew a lot of the same places and a few of the same people! What an utter gentleman.

I left my parts and expect it will take about 6 months, though might get lucky if the planets align. I'm not in a rush.

Couple of interesting takeaways on the actual build... the scope I got has a correct reticle. There were a lot of different ones used as they literally bought what they could get. Marines got the footballs, Navy had dots and also the fine line as in my scope.

There were a handful of Mk13 Mod0's done with suppressors. Of the 300 or so that Alan said they made for NavSpecWar, maybe 50 had suppressors fitted. They used a collar fitted back several inches. If I wanted to have that put on, it could be done, but for the serial number of my stock, it would not be right. I don't need a can anyway. He further said that "Everyone wants one because it was on the American Sniper Movie." But it would not have been common. Later, the Mod 5's were fitted for suppressors.

My stock has two numbers on it, one crossed out. So it was sent back to Crane for a complete rebuild at some point. Likely got a new action, barrel, etc.

Guns were shipped with a sandblasted stainless barrel. They were all painted anyway. He did not put coatings on anything in that era. He had just done one with all new parts. Tan stock, blued receiver, stainless barrel sandblasted. He showed it to me and said that was how they left Crane. The Seals did whatever they wanted to them.

The A191 chamber is fine with standard ammo and he is going to use those reamers. He said that the 220gr. Matchkings are superb and that the Black Hills match was designed for the gun and delivers superb accuracy. I talked to him about my handloading (FL resize then neck size) and he said that will be just fine with the A191 chamber.

He highly recommended against the Sako extractor. Said that the Remington was much better. He had told me this on the phone as well. They also end up bushing some of the bolt faces, too.

They tried several aftermarket triggers, but they were susceptible to dirt. The Remington factory triggers, with a little poking and stroking worked just great.

Overall, a great morning with some great company. Fantastic gentleman! This is going to be absolutely a build worth doing right. And I can't wait to shoot it! Of note, Alan has had a number of requests for builds on the old stocks, as he called them. So apparently, the group of them hitting the market is getting right back to him for builds. Honestly, unless you are a total DIY, who else would you want to build one.... except the guy who built them in the first place!

Triggered: Love your sling! And stop sucking up to 0331... you are still third in line for a hard case after Buffalo and I.

But I'll echo your experience with 0331.

Now, if we can just get Sandwarrior and Pmclaine to buy stocks.... They know they want them!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[USMCSGT0331]

Thanks for the kind words gentlemen, it's been a pleasure working with everyone!

Triggered, you and another forum member have stocks en route, you guys should have them on Wednesday!

Also, I was able to match a stock's serial number with one of the cases! Too bad for me, it's one that I no longer have, but I'm pretty sure Kelly McMillan will be interested to hear about it (I gave him the matching stock last year)!

 

[Triggered]

Well maybe if we all butter him up, we might end up with a case or two to fight over

SIX MONTHS I can't believe the turn around time is that long for Brown. I figured three months max and maybe closer to two if I was overly generous. Was planning on having the rifle back by the end of the year.... hmmm
Must be a busy man I would imagine.

That makes the Lilja barrel wait time seem like nothing.

 

[pmclaine]

Now, if we can just get Sandwarrior and Pmclaine to buy stocks.... They know they want them!

Cheers,

Sirhr

They are beautiful and a true piece of history, we seem to be in a golden age of buying unique historical pieces.

Really appreciate it when I see this stuff come available to mere cavemen like me.

I think if I was going with another rifle caliber it should probably be in the "wonder" 6mm range.

In the meantime I currently have a neat gun on lay away that will be costing me a good buck for what it is......more to follow.

 

[Triggered]

What would the popular opinion be on using a no prefix 700 action? Waiting to hear on the price, but a shop an hour away has a Mag action available.

I know these were the early early guns from like the 1960s, and I think something is slightly different in regards to mounting rings, even though a C prefix is correct time period.

I would potentially feel bad using this action given its historical value, but wanted to ask.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Had such a good time with AJ yesterday, we ended up hanging out all afternoon today! He even brought his lovely wife along. A good time was had by all!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

What would the popular opinion be on using a no prefix 700 action? Waiting to hear on the price, but a shop an hour away has a Mag action available.

I know these were the early early guns from like the 1960s, and I think something is slightly different in regards to mounting rings, even though a C prefix is correct time period.

I would potentially feel bad using this action given its historical value, but wanted to ask.

I don't think the C-prefix is a must.

Then again... you spent XXX on stock.... XXX on scope. XXX on barrel. XXX on rings, gunsmithing, shipping, etc..... If it takes you an extra few weeks to find a C-prefix action or donor gun... what's it cost you? A few days? And in the long run, the value of your finished gun (and the pride of having it right) will be there. Patience is your friend... the right action will come up. Why not take the time to get that perfect donor piece since you have gone to the lengths to get everything else just right.

Then again, just my two percent of a dollar. Your mileage may vary. Offer not valid on Guam. As seen on TV, etc.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sandwarrior]

Had such a good time with AJ yesterday, we ended up hanging out all afternoon today! He even brought his lovely wife along. A good time was had by all!

Cheers,

Sirhr

Did you ask ALL 100,000 questions we asked you to ask him?

 

[Triggered]

Did you ask ALL 100,000 questions we asked you to ask him?

Hahaha the real answer we all
are eager for! Our liaison couldn't have been too overbearing if they spent the second day holding hands and taking photos together.

Sounds like you had a good ol time with AJ, Sirhr.

And very wise comments regarding the build...

I should probably pump the brakes a little since it will all get sorted in the end, but I am
thoroughly excited for this rifle.

That being said, spending the time and patients to have it done just right will be worth it in the end I hope.

I should get to see the stock and everything on Saturday or Sunday when I roll into town. Hoping it's even cooler in person than in photos

 

[sandwarrior]

Now, if we can just get sandwarrior and Pmclaine to buy stocks.... They know they want them!

Cheers,

Sirhr

I have to say I'm really enjoying watching you guys build these. One big reason I love hanging around this place is what comes up as far as hardware. That said, right now, I'm not in the position to be buying stuff. So, for now, I'll have to suffice with my little AMU rifle as to what I get to shoot in the big .30 Cal rifles.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

And this just in

Lilja shipped my barrel yesterday direct to Alan Brown! He should have it today or Monday.

BTW, (and this is somewhat for Spooled but for anyone considering using Alan Brown) he said that his lead time is about 6 months.

However, he also has a policy that he will not start on a gun until all parts are in-hand. Very smart. So there are no starts/stops/waiting for parts or outside services/delays. He also said that he gets a lot of projects in with a "and this one last little part will be in the mail any day..." and 2 months later it's still not there. This means that partial projects get treated, more or less, like they are not in line. And that projects that are in the shop with 100 percent of the parts have an assumed lead-time of several months with their slot in line assured. It also means that any gun which is in his hands and has all the parts ready to go jumps the line of incomplete projects.. Just because someone gets an action in, for example.. doesn't assure their slot in line while they are busy rounding up the parts. The six month clock starts ticking when all the parts are in hand.

So with my barrel now in-hand (ish)...he has 100 percent of the parts. I expect the rifle to be done by Nov. or so. With the possibility existing that it could happen earlier if planets align, but not holding my breath. Nor is it a big deal... six months seems, to me, to be a very, very short wait for a custom rifle from one of the best in the business. So I'm patient. I still have to reload my WM's!

I think it speaks a lot of Alan that he knows how hard and inefficient it is to start and stop on a project and that rounding up parts and having a 'now where is that' moment. Once you are on a roll... you have to keep at it! Wish all 'smiths worked that way! So looking forward to this project!!!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sandwarrior]

Looking forward to seeing this done! If we get lucky, we might see some of it in progression?

 

[LibertyArms]

Got one of two done ( #2 with donut for Knights can underway) . To go with the prior pictures. this ones done with the case, accessories listed in the pages, Have the MRT sling for it and forgot to get it int he pic. But, return stock, c prefix, original 2000' lilja bbl, original crane lug, bolt stamped to be correct, take off stock bottom metal and MIRS from USMCSGT , Badger rings, period correct NF mil dot, and some rattle can. Thanks to Ryan and Marty !!
Sorry, Torque wrench was not original and left it from setting the scope rings. !



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[sirhrmechanic]

Buffalo and I like what you've done with that case....

Still waiting for ours! I am sure news of them is inbound ;-)

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[USMCSGT0331]

LibertyArms, your build turned out great! Love the paint job and the original case! If you ever want to part with the case, I know a few people that would love to take it off your hands

 

[0812guns]

Nice!

 

[LibertyArms]

LibertyArms, your build turned out great! Love the paint job and the original case! If you ever want to part with the case, I know a few people that would love to take it off your hands

I see that. Sorry. Keeping the ones I have. Haha.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I see that. Sorry. Keeping the ones I have. Haha.

So is everyone else, apparently....

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Of note, Alan pointed out that the original cases for the Mk13's were from Kalispell. Then ICC stepped in and underbid Kalispell by a small amount... and got the 'next' contract.

So the early Mk13's were Kalispell. Which explains the difference in locking bars between some of the cases.

That said, Buffalo and I will be very happy with our ICC cases... when "somebody" sends them to us... very soon.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[jmar]

Great thread gentleman. After seeing buffalowinter's rifle I now must build a MK 13. I am new to long range shooting but have always loved the military and military issued rifles, this and the M24 really do it for me. I was going to go with a R700 and .300 WM as my starter gun anyways so why not have something cool.

Any tips on building one? I tried googling and there's little to nothing I could find about the Mk 13 Mod 0, in fact this thread is one of the first to appear. Seems like the military named about 30 pieces of gear the mk13... If it's not too much trouble could someone give me a crash course on them or link a spec list?

I don't know if any seal used stocks are on the market anymore so do you think if I call up McMillan and just ask for the mk13 stock they'll know what to do? Is the correct base color i'm looking for gray or brown? Thanks guys.

 

[pmclaine]

This might offer some specs.....

https://www.m40rifle.com/forum/armo...ifles/mk-13/8267-mk13-version-variation-specs

 

[FatBoy]

McMillan can absolutely make the stock. They will still ask you all the spec questions (floor plate brand, etc). They did one for me about 2 years ago and it was perfect.

 

[NukeMMC]

Great thread gentleman. After seeing buffalowinter's rifle I now must build a MK 13. I am new to long range shooting but have always loved the military and military issued rifles, this and the M24 really do it for me. I was going to go with a R700 and .300 WM as my starter gun anyways so why not have something cool.

Any tips on building one? I tried googling and there's little to nothing I could find about the Mk 13 Mod 0, in fact this thread is one of the first to appear. Seems like the military named about 30 pieces of gear the mk13... If it's not too much trouble could someone give me a crash course on them or link a spec list?

I don't know if any SEAL used stocks are on the market anymore so do you think if I call up McMillan and just ask for the mk13 stock they'll know what to do? Is the correct base color i'm looking for gray or brown? Thanks guys.

Fixed it for you.

If you want the stock used on the Mk13 or Mk13 Mod 1, go for a plain-jane McMillan A2. Find a Remington 700 long action with or without a magnum bolt face. If without, have it opened up to magnum face when your smith installs the M16 extractor and trues the action. After that, you just need to figure out what to use for barrel, base, rings, trigger (old-style Rem 700 works fine).

 

[USMCSGT0331]

I don't know if any seal used stocks are on the market anymore so do you think if I call up McMillan and just ask for the mk13 stock they'll know what to do? Is the correct base color i'm looking for gray or brown? Thanks guys.

I still have original SEAL used stocks for sale, PM me if you're interested

 

[LibertyArms]

I have a spare barrel, L shaped lug, mirs rail, and c prefix action I'll be selling if anyone is looking. All correct parts for the mk13. Can assemble if needed

 

[sirhrmechanic]

And two spare cases, by any chance? Just 'sayin.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Marobo]

I acquired an MK 13 MOD 3 a few years back. There is not to much info on it on the web - All of my searches come up with info for the MOD 5 and MOD 7. Does anyone out there know anything about this rifle. It has an AI stock, McCann rail, Remington 721 receiver (which I thought was odd) and it is engraved with MK 13 MOD 3 with an anchor on the bolt.

 

[grunt0311]

The Mod 3 should also have the KAC MK11 suppressor. It would be the one that Chris Kyle used during his deployment to Ramadi. Its also weird that you have a 721 and not a 700. Do you or can you post a pic of your gun? This is what the gun should look like.

I acquired an MK 13 MOD 3 a few years back. There is not to much info on it on the web - All of my searches come up with info for the MOD 5 and MOD 7. Does anyone out there know anything about this rifle. It has an AI stock, McCann rail, Remington 721 receiver (which I thought was odd) and it is engraved with MK 13 MOD 3 with an anchor on the bolt.

 

[Marobo]

Thanks grunt0311 for responding... Here are a few photos

 

[FatBoy]

Green AICS in mod3? Odd. I assume the serial number on the Bolt matches the action?

that's a nice rifle. I know there are some oddballs out there. My buddy swears one of their early 300WMs was built off a Model7.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

. My buddy swears one of their early 300WMs was built off a Model7.

Unless I am mistaken, the Model 7 was always a short-action rifle. I don't think you could get a .300 WM into a Model 7 if you tried... Maybe a WSM....

But odd things do happen!

I can ask if they ever made any on Model 721's.... Even if, as a 721, it is a replica, it's a nice one! The Model 721's and, especially, its derivative the Model 725 were some beautiful rifles. Not that there is anything wrong with the 700. But if there ever was a 'pre-64' version of the 700.... the 725 would be it!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[FatBoy]

Unless I am mistaken, the Model 7 was always a short-action rifle. I don't think you could get a .300 WM into a Model 7 if you tried... Maybe a WSM....

But odd things do happen!

I can ask if they ever made any on Model 721's.... Even if, as a 721, it is a replica, it's a nice one! The Model 721's and, especially, its derivative the Model 725 were some beautiful rifles. Not that there is anything wrong with the 700. But if there ever was a 'pre-64' version of the 700.... the 725 would be it!

Cheers,

Sirhr

Maybe I misunderstood him. Or maybe his TBI was kicking in hard the day we were talking about it. He mentioned his early rifles had the Sako extractors because the bolts started out with standard size faces that were opened. He hated the Sako units, said they caused a lot of extractions issues due to brass hitting the rail. I think I sent you a pic of his mk13 on the floor of a team room with the rail hacked into pieces. That was the rifle that had a non-700 action I think. Looking at it, the barrel looks shorter than 26" too? He's told me over and over, lots of non-standard stuff came through them over the years. I wasn't there so I can't say with any certainty, but his word is good as gold to me. 'Cept when he's got a few liquor drinks in him and he starts talking huge amounts of shit.

 

[sandwarrior]

I saw enough "not the usual" stuff from the SEAL side to know it wasn't always standard with them. They even seem to have their own versions of atomic sit-ups.

That said, the model 7 is a shorter version of the Rem 700 than the 700 SA. But, because you could get a magnum bolt face with them, they were popular as single shots in the target world. From which the SEALs drew heavily. Reason for this was the shorter = stiffer action mentality. Therefore, more accurate with less flex in the action. I haven't seen this done in at least ten years. Too many solid custom actions out there now.

As to the Rem 721, it's pretty much the same as a 700 LA. Some thought the quality was better. There is a little more "meat" in places, but most everything crosses right over. It wouldn't surprise me if a SEAL, back in the day, felt he was going one better and had his rifle built up on a 721.
​​
A good one to ask is AJ Brown, if he saw stuff out of the norm. As stated in a previous post sirhr, you are remiss in not asking him all 100,000 questions we asked you to ask him. So, we at least need a report back on some of them.

Another thought on this is look how little is said about post '63 Winchester 70's. Hathcock's tribute was a post '63. He mostly used a pre-'64. It's almost like the military doesn't distinguish between them. If a SEAL were to have his rifle built up on a 721, it would end back up in a classified arms room. Then get released out somewhere 20-30 yrs. later and taken apart as it was 'not right'. ...it never really existed then.

Added: While the 725's were nice they were nothing more than Rem 721 BDL's and 722 Deluxe's. Very nice in comparison, but nowhere near as good as the Remington 720's!! Those were a pinnacle the best Winchester 70's had a hard time matching. The Navy, with no business to do so, came in and scarfed them all up. After the war, seeing they didn't interchange with anything militarily, started handing them out for shooting trophies.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Actually, Sand, I did ask about the variants and 'oddballs' and the answer I got was that far less of this went on than we might think. Crane made things to a 'spec. And though they did make some modifications over time (Sako extractor being one... and not a popular one), less stuff was done in 'the teams' than legend suggests. Not that they couldn't do things themselves at times, but tinkering with their weapons was a far lower priority than training evolutions, deployments, etc.

A phrase that stood out above was "Maybe a Seal had a rifle built on a Model 721...." Well, maybe. It's a diverse community. He could have done himself. He could have had a local 'smith do it for him. They were regular visitors at Crane... so could a guy have brought an action or rifle and said 'can you do this.... for this reason???' Honestly I don't know. So this is just an extrapolation from the statement by Alan that there was a lot less modification in the field than often assumed. Mostly, they ran what they were issued and personalization was limited to taping on cheek pads and painting. Even buying 'off the shelf' scopes was not as common as I had previously believed.

Similar would probably apply to the Model 7... If someone had a very specific reason for a single shot... and it was the best action? Well, necessity is the mother of invention.

One thing that I have learned over the years when it comes to guns is 'never say never... and never say always.' Because everyone had a custom shop of some kind. And once things got 'into the fleet' who knows? A fresh new Boot Marine who modified his AR at LeJeune would probably be skinned.... a SO/LIC operator with a decade of operational experience likely got a bit more lattitude... especially on deployment. So who knows? And strange things happen in strange communities. Heck, Welrods are still in use in certain places...

But I will keep asking interesting questions as appropriate.... Oh and Mr. Brown never goes near forums. Said he used to, but every time he used to post something, 50 people told him he was wrong. Pretty funny! But you know it happened...

Cheers,

Sirhr

P.S. Excellent info on the early Remingtons, Sand! I have handled only a few... and helped a friend buy his 'holy grail' rifle, a Model 725 in, I think, .280 Remington (Does that sound right?) I remember it was a lovely rifle. His dream deer rifle. As always, this place is educational!

 

[grunt0311]

Thanks grunt0311 for responding... Here are a few photos

Rifle looks good but its not a Mod 3. Its actually a Mod 2. Look at my posts from above an you can see more pics. Change out the MIRS rail for a MARS rail and put on a Nightforce. The Mod 2 was issued to Army Rangers not NSW.

 

[Marobo]

The guy that I got if from is ex-CIA... Who knows what arsonal cache it originated from??? Also. this rifle has a trigger a butterfly could set off, is that standard for our boys to modify to their liking???

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Ah.... the Ex-CIA snipers... We've had a lot of them around over the years. Was his name, perchance, Diamond?

Just 'sayin.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sandwarrior]

I think his name was Diamond Jim. Wait, I now have to remain incognito... it's twoo, it's twoo!
The backlash for ex-CIA may be not so bad from your government as we've heard.

I can readily see the backlash being pretty bad from those you pissed off and up to that point didn't know how to find you.

 

[sandwarrior]

Actually, Sand, I did ask about the variants and 'oddballs' and the answer I got was that far less of this went on than we might think. ...

Cheers,

Sirhr

P.S. Excellent info on the early Remingtons, Sand! I have handled only a few... and helped a friend buy his 'holy grail' rifle, a Model 725 in, I think, .280 Remington (Does that sound right?) I remember it was a lovely rifle. His dream deer rifle. As always, this place is educational!

sirhr,

First, I gotta say I shouldn't downplay the significance of the model 725 and what brought it about, the deluxe and BDL versions of the 722 and 721. They were a return to upscaling a rifle not only for looks but function as well. And, they really are a pleasure to handle. I've handled two 720's in my lifetime. They were nice indeed. Fit and finish was smooth. And, they had that classic wood and blued steel look and feel that made you feel like the first time you were in a gun store and got to handle a rifle.

Second, there was odd stuff out there. But as you said, it wasn't the norm. You know I was just giving you a hard time about being remiss? I thought for sure the 100,000 question thing would have given it away.

In any case, I found his business and called Alan. We talked about stuff for a good hour. He pretty much reiterated what you say. Not so much "out of the norm". At least when it comes to each weapons platform. There were do-dillies taped, strapped and machined to fit, on weapons platforms. But, the weapon itself didn't really change. I will say when it comes to ballistics he's knowledgeable...and hard -core old school!

 

[NukeMMC]

Very nice in comparison, but nowhere near as good as the Remington 720's!! Those were a pinnacle the best Winchester 70's had a hard time matching. The Navy, with no business to do so, came in and scarfed them all up. After the war, seeing they didn't interchange with anything militarily, started handing them out for shooting trophies.

Actually the Navy bought those 720s at the beginning of WW2 as a knee-jerk reaction to slow ramp-up of wartime production and Marines needing rifles ASAP. The rifle was the successor to the Model 30, which was based on the 1914/1917 action. The Navy only bought 1000 of the roughly 2500 made. By the time the Navy took possession of the 1000 rifles they bought, SA and Winchester were cranking out M1s and these lost their utility as 1903s and 1917s were being replaced in the field by M1s. The 720s were originally to be scrapped in the 70s but a deal was made with SECNAV to add them to the award rifle program (along with the 7.62 MK2-1s and M1s). I have seen, held and admired a few of the Trophy 720s. They were beautiful rifles and the sale of many of them by some of the top USMC and Navy shooters helped fund those shooters continuing their shooting careers. I sold 2 of my SECNAV Trophy M1 rifles to keep my competitive shooting game going. Unlike USMC or Army, the Navy support of its competitive shooters is almost nonexistent.

 

[sandwarrior]

Actually the Navy bought those 720s at the beginning of WW2 as a knee-jerk reaction to slow ramp-up of wartime production and Marines needing rifles ASAP. The rifle was the successor to the Model 30, which was based on the 1914/1917 action. The Navy only bought 1000 of the roughly 2500 made. By the time the Navy took possession of the 1000 rifles they bought, SA and Winchester were cranking out M1s and these lost their utility as 1903s and 1917s were being replaced in the field by M1s. The 720s were originally to be scrapped in the 70s but a deal was made with SECNAV to add them to the award rifle program (along with the 7.62 MK2-1s and M1s). I have seen, held and admired a few of the Trophy 720s. They were beautiful rifles and the sale of many of them by some of the top USMC and Navy shooters helped fund those shooters continuing their shooting careers. I sold 2 of my SECNAV Trophy M1 rifles to keep my competitive shooting game going. Unlike USMC or Army, the Navy support of its competitive shooters is almost nonexistent.

In a nutshell, scarfed them all up with no business doing so, is short lingo for what you describe. At the beginning of the war, we had loads of U.S. Model of 1917's still in stock. The 720's didn't fully interchange with them. Yes, the Navy bought them. However, that was at emergency wartime prices. So for all intents and purposes, they were seized. I guess it depends on your perspective on how they got them. Funny how no one walked into Winchester and did the same? Or, Savage, Or Marlin? They all had deals made before transferring to the Gov't.