MOA comeback?
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Barely, lately, a lot of fake shooting, like real, not real, although in my mind I identify as a shooter
Use whatever system works for you? This really is making a mountain out of a mole hill.
I’ve noticed quite few a secret-squirrel types at this covert range I belong to sporting an interesting new combined MOA/MIL reticle.
www.snipershide.com
I took a look through a fella’s scope and when he wasn’t looking, I snapped a pic.
That way I didn’t have to sign an NDA.
His name was something like “Thewhoreta”. Maybe “Thee Whoreta”? Must be from Thailand.
This is the way.
NAILED IT! Competitive Marksman Reticle PERFECTED!
As y’all know, the crazy pace of reticle development sometimes seems little more than a desire to push new scope sales rather than truly help the professional and competitive marksman. No reticle has dared to address universal reticle positioning issues like Dynamic Prone and Inverted Bat...
www.snipershide.com
I took a look through a fella’s scope and when he wasn’t looking, I snapped a pic.
That way I didn’t have to sign an NDA.
His name was something like “Thewhoreta”. Maybe “Thee Whoreta”? Must be from Thailand.
This is the way.
This. Fudds are dabbling in “long range precision” now. MOA is what they know. I just had a guy tell me he uses a distance to move on the target measurement to adjust his scope. They have $$$, but are terrified of anything new because it makes them feel dumb. The crew local to me is all giddy about shooting custom rifles on steel from the prone at 1000 6 times a year, but terrified of shooting a Rimfire match at 100.
I got my start with rifles shooting NRA service rifle. When it came time to switch to scoped/bipod rifles the switch to milrads was seamless. Because it's just angles measured in different units. And as long as all the shit for one rifle system all reads in the same units, it makes no difference. I can have one rifle with moa/moa/ffp scope and an moa dope card and onw with mil/mil/ffp scope and a milrad dope card and switch back and forth with no effort.
And while I'm not ready for social security, I'm not 40 either.
When I came to SH in 2011, the predominant scope of the badass's who could almost hit to 800 yards with their 308's was a Mark 4, complete with moa turrets, and mil dot reticle. Most mil scopes were European first focal and costly.
My scope ratio is 11/3 in favor of mils, and I am fine with either. I grew into LR shooting with moa, converting only to be compliant with friends. I do like less dialing, and the finer resolution of hashes mils has to offer.
But if the choice had stayed mil dot to duplex only, I'd be rocking moa, I can rattle off a correction relatively quickly knowing target size and distance.
My scope ratio is 11/3 in favor of mils, and I am fine with either. I grew into LR shooting with moa, converting only to be compliant with friends. I do like less dialing, and the finer resolution of hashes mils has to offer.
But if the choice had stayed mil dot to duplex only, I'd be rocking moa, I can rattle off a correction relatively quickly knowing target size and distance.
The key element today when choosing a scope unit of adjustment is communication
Shooting F Class, use MOA
Shooting Steel Targets, MIL
If you go to a match and 99% of the shooters are talking Mils, MOA does you no favors, when you go to a paper match, like F Class those targets are calibrated in MOA, so it makes sense,
Benchrest might as well be units of Franks, doesn't matter, you can get scopes with just as fine adjustment in both
Shooting F Class, use MOA
Shooting Steel Targets, MIL
If you go to a match and 99% of the shooters are talking Mils, MOA does you no favors, when you go to a paper match, like F Class those targets are calibrated in MOA, so it makes sense,
Benchrest might as well be units of Franks, doesn't matter, you can get scopes with just as fine adjustment in both
Fierce makes rifles for hunters and hunters overwhelmingly use MOA. I do think there's a slow enlightenment happening in at least the longer range hunting community involving a shift to MIL. My lighter weight hunting scope is MOA because my father uses MOA and we hunt together so I do it to speak the same language. However after my last coues deer hunt I'm making an attempt to change his language because holy shit MOA annoyed me more than it should have. Doing fractions in 0.25 increments blows.
Hunting is an area ripe for a modern takeover, it’s hard because hunters are creatures of habit, but modernizing hunting could be so big and easy, it’s just about finding the recipe to gain the right attention
I think Kevin B from Q is doing it, but few others
I think Kevin B from Q is doing it, but few others
Plus there's an absolute mountain of misinformation that confuses the <5% of hunters who even want to break from tradition. I only recently learned that higher height over bore doesn't exaggerate the error when your scope is canted. It's not that I was ardently saying it worked that way I just never bothered to look into it.
That could be funny if it was metric.
. A MIL is equal to 1/1000 distance to target.
Period there is no argument, the measurement doesn’t matter if it’s standard, metric, shoe size, your height, dick length or fucking light years away.
Show me a MOA shooter who can tell me how big a MOA is at 947 light years? Take your time and use google……
MIL shooters will do it in their heads before you get to hit the search button or beg Siri to find it.
A MIL at 947 light years away is equal to .947 of a light year, 1/10th click is .0947 of a light year adjustment.
Want to screw around and convert it to another unit of measure go ahead, but you’re literally doing all the work for nothing.
Base 10 numbers isn’t metric. Surveyor's survey in 1/10’s of a foot, does that make them metric? How about machinists breaking an inch into 1/1000’s?
Funny how a MIL is equal to 3.6” @ 3600”s, or 36” @ 36,000”s ……..must be a mistake right?
Haha! This is exactly right. A bunch of years ago, Before NRL22 and PRS22, I started running an occasional mixed range match with targets from 25-310 yards. Some guys that would come to our long range CF field matches were insistent that that was too far and unrealistic. They said maybe they’d come if I limited it to 100 yards, lol.
Oh and we shot using scopes measuring minute of beer yeast (MOBY).
LRH a great place to dump moa scopes, let's don't try ruin it so others can be like you.
I started out with precision rifle and LR shooting back in 2008 or so and at that time...MOA was all I really knew about. I mean...It was that or IPHY. I went with the NP1R and NP1RR because...NIGHTFORCE.
Then Bushnell released the XRS.
H59 and FFP.
I never considered another MOA or 2FP scope ever again. NEVER
Then Bushnell released the XRS.
H59 and FFP.
I never considered another MOA or 2FP scope ever again. NEVER
MOBY is a hard one to use, so you must be the One True Expert. After a while the distances seem to get shorter, the targets get bigger, and the chix get hotter.
Chix is what its subtensions are denoted in, right?
Welp, my dumbass just bought a razor gen 3 6-36x56 in MOA. I was looking for a mil version and went on here looking for a good deal. I got excited that I saw a nib one. I went through the transaction and decided to check the photos and realized my mistake. Now I’m getting an MOA scope shipped to me. I have my first regional PRS comp in a month so I guess I’m gonna have to eat this one.
Point of the story is don’t be like me.
Point of the story is don’t be like me.
It’s a screw up but nothing earth shaking. Still a great scope. Just run your data in MOA and go shoot the match.
Thank you for the suggestion. But after posting this yesterday, I was curious if Vortex would even consider swapping out this scope since it is brand new. So I dropped them a question telling them about my blunder. To my surprise, they told me to go ahead and send it in for a swap. I was kinda floored by what they said. You know, I always knew about the vortex warranty. But I didn’t know they were this good. To actually have someone just send you a scope because he bought the wrong one with only 1 question asked which is “was it mounted?” I’m not gonna shill for them if another brand has a better product but I will sing the tune about their warranty whenever anyone asks.
I thought this thread was you going to be about the cloning efforts…
www.dailymail.co.uk
Disappointed!!!
Sirhr
PS. Congrats on the Vortex swap. Classy company! Good PR right there!!!
Scientists are closer to bringing little bush moa out of extinction
The little bush moa, a flightless bird that was found in New Zealand, went abruptly extinct in the late 13th century as a result of overhunting. Now, scientists are working to revive the species.
Disappointed!!!
Sirhr
PS. Congrats on the Vortex swap. Classy company! Good PR right there!!!
Ok, ha! I was a bit too dry there.
I give you what every Vortex scope should wear, the HortaRetXXX² by @TheHorta
NAILED IT! Competitive Marksman Reticle PERFECTED!
As y’all know, the crazy pace of reticle development sometimes seems little more than a desire to push new scope sales rather than truly help the professional and competitive marksman. No reticle has dared to address universal reticle positioning issues like Dynamic Prone and Inverted Bat...
www.snipershide.com
However, I am glad Vortex took care of you!
I once tried to be a porn star until they said I’d be making gay porn first as a right of succession to pussy porn. I imagine thats what happens with MOA until MRAD.
MOA will never die as long as there are known distance competitions.
I own both, use a calculator with both, and can shift back and forth without thinking about it, because I’m only shooting known distances. As for calling impacts, it’s just as easy to call 1/3 target high, or 2.5 targets left and the shooter always knows immediately how to adjust.
Warm weather is coming, stop arguing and get out there an shoot!
I own both, use a calculator with both, and can shift back and forth without thinking about it, because I’m only shooting known distances. As for calling impacts, it’s just as easy to call 1/3 target high, or 2.5 targets left and the shooter always knows immediately how to adjust.
Warm weather is coming, stop arguing and get out there an shoot!
So you are telling folks not to post……on a forum?
You might be posting from your Mom’s basement but I’m outside shooting right now. It 36°, overcast with a 24 mph wind gusts.
MOA and MRAD are the same damn thing, just different measurements. The problem with MOA is that it is usually base 4 on most scopes. Conversely MRAD is base 10 on most scopes.
So if the call-out is 2.6 then on MOA well you either go 2.5 or 2.75. On mrad you just go 2.6 or if it is getting dark….26 clicks. On MOA it is 8 clicks plus 2 or 3 clicks.
This is also very useful if you run a tape on your turret while hunting, but want to check the day’s environmental dope. You can just use clicks by moving a decimal point to see what your delta for the day might be. Little tricks like “MPH gun” work so much easier with MRAD.
I find that folks who use MOA seem much more prone to converting to linear measurements like inches. Utter foolishness, but I see it at the range all the freaking time.
I use an iPhone. Like the iphone vs droid debate,I could give a rat’s ass what phone you choose. They both do the same damn thing. If you’re happy, that’s what’s most important. BUT like with MRAD when friends and family use droids there are just so many things that are harder with them. My hunting buddy and best friend is MOA and Droid. Judas priest…..
I will say that I often wonder what it does to the prices of optics having to deal with making two different versions of every scope. Basic economics tells me that it adds to the cost and therefore price of the product. Obviously this is where my analogy between the iPhone and droid falls apart. In that case the competition actually drives price is down. I believe competition is good. Heaven forbid one should dominate over the other.
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I started shooting MOA scopes in 1964, Switched over to MIL FFP scopes five years ago. Getting used to the switch from MOA to MIL took about ten seconds. Learning the MIL system only took five more seconds. It’s not math, it’s angles. However, when people learn this, it won’t matter which is chosen. (excepting the bench rest crowd, all of whom are excused from this conversation with understanding)
As an introvert, I am switching to MOA so I have one less reason to have to talk to other people.
-Stan
-Stan
Speaking for other people, we appreciate that.
There's nothing about known distance shooting that requires MOA optics or that makes MOA optics better suited.
@Holliday
See?!? This mathematically proves that Mil is better:
Mil is Always bigger than MOA > this is America > in America bigger is better > Mil is better.
Irrefutable!
See?!? This mathematically proves that Mil is better:
Mil is Always bigger than MOA > this is America > in America bigger is better > Mil is better.
Irrefutable!
I think there was a real benefit to mil 15 years ago.
Today with cheap LRF and free ballistic apps everywhere combined with so many FFP scopes in MOA, it’s getting to a toss up.
If you have a spotter make sure the spotter is using the same mil/moa.
No one should be thinking in “measurements” no matter what choice.
FFP ballistic apps: hold off 3 moa or 3 mil..no diff. Find the hash mark and shoot
FFP scope: missed by 3 mil or 3 moa to the left..hold right 3 hash marks
FFP scope: lead is 3mil or 3moa..you got it..hold 3 hash marks
It’s all the same at the end of the day when you use modern shooting aids , which everyone does
Today with cheap LRF and free ballistic apps everywhere combined with so many FFP scopes in MOA, it’s getting to a toss up.
If you have a spotter make sure the spotter is using the same mil/moa.
No one should be thinking in “measurements” no matter what choice.
FFP ballistic apps: hold off 3 moa or 3 mil..no diff. Find the hash mark and shoot
FFP scope: missed by 3 mil or 3 moa to the left..hold right 3 hash marks
FFP scope: lead is 3mil or 3moa..you got it..hold 3 hash marks
It’s all the same at the end of the day when you use modern shooting aids , which everyone does
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I would argue with that. Shooting Bench Rest, were fractions of an inch could mean the difference between winning and not. An MOA scope with a dial of a tenth of an inch click is a finer adjustment than a MILRAD scope's tenth of a mil. It could make a difference in that exacting sport.
They make .05 mil scopes also so they are right there with 1/8 moa scopes. Difference would be 1/2” at 1000 yards between those two.
Not aware, so that shows my ignorance. At 76 still haven’t learned to keep my mouth shut and my keyboard closed
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