Advanced Marksmanship MOA Guru's - Simple Question with Sample Problem

Afghanvet09

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 18, 2006
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Lexington, SC
Got some data on a service rifle that says it shoots 4.0 MOA, and scratching my head after what somebody put out in a class here. MOA (depending on units- yd/m) will be higher if meter based, and lower if yard based. 1 MOA is 1.047" at 100 yards and 1.14" at 100 meters. My math is right?

 
Re: MOA Guru's - Simple Question with Sample Problem

I think too many people MATH MOAs TO CONFUSION.

Yes, a true MOA is 1.047. Lets move to 1000 yards. The differance between true MOA and what normally is used (1" as an MOA) it .47.

I don't know about the you, but I can't hold with in 1/2 inch (actual) at 1000 yards when you are dealing with wind, mirage, humity, temps, etc.

There is a term older then shooting itself. KISS or KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID.

Shooting is about 95% mental. The more crap you have to worry about, the worse you're shooting is gonna be. Wheather we use 1.000 or 1.047 in. as MOA isnt going to really matter on target as it does in your head.

Just use a inch per hundred yards as MOA and dont worry about it. You wont notice it on target.

A simple conversion chart will change from inches to centemeters or yards to meters.

I'm an American, I just you inches and yards and dont worry about conversions.

In short, its MUCH TO DO ABOUT NOTHING.
 
Re: MOA Guru's - Simple Question with Sample Problem

The effect is cumulative, so, for example, a 40 inch necessary adjustment to get a good hit at 1000 yards from, let's say, a 100 yard zero would, with actual adjustments in MOA units instead of inch units, yield 41.88 inchs at 100 yards, which is over 18 inches of displacement at target, or a 7 ring hit instead of a pinwheel X opportunity.
 
Re: MOA Guru's - Simple Question with Sample Problem

You are absolutely correct, not much of a real world application here I do admit, but was just looking for the text book correct answer. Also if you teach, students ask these sort of off the wall questions sometimes.

In the example I gave when I posted the question, you have two different rifles that shoot the same MOA, but the group size is different -- depending on whether you use the metric MOA or english MOA.

This is some math twist I haven't noticed. If noone's got the answer I won't get wrapped around the axle in my world over it, but would like to know the implications, however minor or insignificant it may be.
 
Re: MOA Guru's - Simple Question with Sample Problem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MedCpt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are absolutely correct, not much of a real world application here I do admit, but was just looking for the text book correct answer. Also if you teach, students ask these sort of off the wall questions sometimes.

In the example I gave when I posted the question, you have two different rifles that shoot the same MOA, but the group size is different -- depending on whether you use the metric MOA or english MOA.

This is some math twist I haven't noticed. If noone's got the answer I won't get wrapped around the axle in my world over it, but would like to know the implications, however minor or insignificant it may be.
</div></div>

So whats metric MOA, and english MOA for that matter. Maybe this will get that copy paste answer to clear that up. Also don't look at paperwork for what a gun is supposed to shoot. For a Military weapon it's wrong alot of the time. I have seen a few M4s that wouldn't shoot 4MOA and seen more that are capable of 1.5-2. Then again I've seen a guy that couldn't get on paper at 25m and said it was his rifle. Then his TL zeroed it and was shooting dime sized groups. Gave the rifle back and he hit paper about 3 times with 60rds. We were in Kuwait at the time and needless to say he got a SAW before we got into Iraq.
 
Re: MOA Guru's - Simple Question with Sample Problem

1.047" at 100 yards = 1 MOA (English)
2.908 cm (1.144") at 100 meters (109.36') = 1 MOA (Metric)

Just curious if this has other unforseen difference implications (however minute)other than the example I used above for long range shooting. It's may be small thing, but it is a controllable variable and not many variables are shooting long distance.
 
Re: MOA Guru's - Simple Question with Sample Problem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HillbillyfromAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Gave the rifle back and he hit paper about 3 times with 60rds. We were in Kuwait at the time and needless to say he got a SAW before we got into Iraq. </div></div>
Things must have changed somewhat from my day. The ammo bearer was the worst shot, the gunner however could normally out shoot all but the very best in the company. Your machine gunner has to understand when to use point fire, as well as raking. If he can't do point fire your screwed in an A/O that is full of building, caves or bunkers. Dispersion can be a saving grace, and was built into some machine guns to over come point shooting. As tactics changed, the need for point shooting with beltfeds became crystal clear.

A bad shot with a semi and slow on the up take on a Machine gun, will get an element over run and that is fact. Those that are not trained on the weapon, are a major drag on the squad, company and larger. All they do is, slow down movement, eat up ammo, an make noise. Read your history about all the guys in WW I, II, Korea, V/N, and later that stood their ground, and eat up the enemy with one lone beltfed. All to a man were good to excellent shots prior to.
 
Re: MOA Guru's - Simple Question with Sample Problem

you are overthinking it. an MOA is a MOA (minute of angle, or 1/60th of a degree). it is an ANGULAR measurement, there is no metric or english. 1 MOA will equate to a linier value that is different at different distances, that is why the length covered by one moa is different at 100 yards and 100 meters, they are different distances.
 
Re: MOA Guru's - Simple Question with Sample Prob

so, your original question...does 4 moa equal 3.9 inches at 100 yards or 3.5 at 100 meters...the answer is neither. 100 meters is farther than 100 yards, so the group would open up, but it is still 4 minutes of angle (0 degrees, 4 minutes, 0 seconds). A 4 MOA group at 100 yards would be 4.18 inches, at 100 meters it would be 4.58 inches.

I included a phot below for illistration. It is crude and very exagerated, but I hope its shows wha I intend it to.

moayrdstomtrsLayout11.jpg
 
Re: MOA Guru's - Simple Question with Sample Problem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I'm an American, I just you inches and yards and dont worry about conversions.

In short, its MUCH TO DO ABOUT NOTHING. </div></div>

I like this mindset, i'm an MOA guy and was thinking about going mil but not gonna do it, i hate it when i grab a 5/8ths socket and the damn nut is metric!!!
 
Re: MOA Guru's - Simple Question with Sample Problem

my question is how anyone can sell a rifle that shoots 4 MOA?
sounds kinda crappy in this day and age.