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It's amazing what those men accomplished with accuracy standards that most shooters would find horribly inadequate
Greg Langelius Sometimes a treasured rifle said:Mr Langelius, that's not about rfles/dogs (only)...That's about the Life : it's Poetry _ my deepest bow, and I don't bow often_ respects_
A local UPS driver claims he was a sniper in Vietnam. He said 400yds was the farthest they ever shot. I never pressed it because everyone else I work with know jack about shit and even less about shooting.
That is highly probable. The average sniper shot in Vietnam was just a hair over 400 yards. Most of the country is jungle, many places you couldn't get near 400 yards.
Seems if he was BS'ing, he would have come up with some outrageous distance.
I was kind of thinking the same thing but I have seen lots of pictures and there seemed to be plenty of open ground but I have never been there. Thanks for the info.
Thanks for you reply and service Mr Larry, I to love the mod 70, mine is a bone stock target in a sporter stock, I had a 15X Unertl ultra varmint, it was awkward in the tree stand so I have an old fixed 10X leupold on it now,mine is a sub moa gun with the fed 168 gr match ammo. I like the ones TBA builds as well . very bestI was there in 1966-67 as a Marine Sniper with the Mod. 70. The terrain was very open in places other than Rice Paddies. I dont know who told about the 400 yd. shooting but as a former 3rd. Marine Sniper i can tell you that we zeroed in at 500 yds. You would hold low for anything close to insure a center mass hit. The Mod. 70 was good out past 1000 yds. if need be. This rifle was very effective with the LCM rounds we were issued. The 8x Unertl was very effective also. This combo is so good in my opion that i presently own one and it shoots every bit as good as the one i was issued. The only thing that was hard to get use to was pulling the scope back into battery after each shot. Something that could easily be forgotten in the heat of battle causing a sure miss at any range. These scopes came with a return to battery spring but they were removed by MTU personnel. If you look in the book "THE ONE ROUND WAR" you will see all of the rifles with the spring removed. Hope this helps in some small way to those interested. Oh one more thing, you will see my picture in the book also. On the firing line getting a final zero before heading to the "ROCKPILE". ..... SEMPER FI! ....LARRY
You always hear about all the long ones made, but what about all that did not connect?
I believe that number is very low. The order of battle quotes it upwards of 350K expended per KIA. That includes all ammo fired.Viet Nam at the rate of 30,000.
Who used the honor system? To get booked it had to be confirmed, and one of the reasons many were not.For snipers, I can see how the number of rounds expended was on the record, but the number of hits reported was often on the honor system.
Peter Senich wrote several sniper books dealing with the Vietnam War. He has several accounts of different units dealing with, distances, number of shots, hits & misses. All one would have to do is go through the books, looking at several unit, Number of Shots, Number of 1 vs 2 or more hits. You can also get an idea of the distances involved (that's how I came across the "just north of 400 yards" info I posted earlier.
But, lets not loose sight of the fact that, though sniping is a valuable tool, snipers don't win wars, its the infantry companies on the ground and total combined arms assets.
Who used the honor system? To get booked it had to be confirmed, and one of the reasons many were not.
Called probables during debrief, but those always required a longer sit, as you had to give full details. FNG's were all about them until they learned to shut up, as it cut beer and hooch time.Any unconfirmed hits reported were on the honor system. No?
Called probables during debrief, but those always required a longer sit, as you had to give full details. FNG's were all about them until they learned to shut up, as it cut beer and hooch time.
Doesn't ring a bell.
That is highly probable. The average sniper shot in Vietnam was just a hair over 400 yards. Most of the country is jungle, many places you couldn't get near 400 yards.
Seems if he was BS'ing, he would have come up with some outrageous distance.
The NRA, American Rifleman had an article a few years back about the Vietnam era sniper rifles, according to the article Carlos' rifle was a 2 MOA rifle. The M21s and M-40 were 1.5 MOA rifles on the average. Maintenance in the jungles was more of a problem then accuracy. Surprisingly the Army's M-21 spent less time in the maintenance shops then the Marine's M-40.
I went to sniper school and taught sniper schools using the M-21 and from what I've see the NRA Article was pretty accurate.
I've shot more then a few Model 70 target rifles, own two, one in 308 and one in 06. They shoot somewhat better then that but then I'm not dragging them through the jungle.
Jungles and rice paddy mud is hard on rifles. That silt will get into everything. The Springfield '03s make better sniper rifles in those conditions. You also want your rifles to be supplemented with irons.
The NRA, American Rifleman had an article a few years back about the Vietnam era sniper rifles, according to the article Carlos' rifle was a 2 MOA rifle. The M21s and M-40 were 1.5 MOA rifles on the average. Maintenance in the jungles was more of a problem then accuracy. Surprisingly the Army's M-21 spent less time in the maintenance shops then the Marine's M-40.
I went to sniper school and taught sniper schools using the M-21 and from what I've see the NRA Article was pretty accurate.
I've shot more then a few Model 70 target rifles, own two, one in 308 and one in 06. They shoot somewhat better then that but then I'm not dragging them through the jungle.
Jungles and rice paddy mud is hard on rifles. That silt will get into everything. The Springfield '03s make better sniper rifles in those conditions. You also want your rifles to be supplemented with irons.
This is a link to an on-line copy of Sharpening the Combat Edge by Lieutenant General Julian Ewell, the CG of the 9th Infantry Division in Vietnam. Starting on page 120 it covers the 9th ID's Vietnam sniper program.
SHARPENING THE COMBAT EDGE
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I thought his armor was, Ron MacAbee?Im pretty sure carlos did his own mods.