MOA vs Mil

He really is the kind of stupid that only a university can generate. Completely ignorant but arrogant as hell because he’s got papers.

I think in Fahrenheit therefore I want my turrets in scoville units.

8F599B1C-F4A5-4FEF-AA28-9D5A7A68651E.jpeg
 
As if by example....


You guys still don't understand. He doesn't have a reticle at all. This "scope" is just a tube taped to the top of a rifle. T.P. roll left-overs from the earlier pandemic panic. With all this extra stock.....
WTF does the reticle have to do with anything regarding math? Thank you for stating the obvious. Yes, I also use my reticle with the little mil marks you guys love so much, if I can see where the bullet hits. You are taking a topic and changing it to another topic because you don't understand the topic???

As far as engineering.. I don't do typical engineer shit.. I am a network engineer, I have to make it work or it doesn't work. I my world, and Architect may be the one you are thinking of that designs shit that I have to fix, so I generally do both.
 
You should quit while you're behind. You've clearly demonstrated that your so-called expertise in math is in common core math. Also, your little lesson here also shows that your shooting experience is non-existent. If you want to keep trolling, this will make for great entertainment, but if you actually want to have a real discussion on how to be a better shooter, you should at least get some of your "facts" straight and actually understand what a minute of angle represents and what a milliradian represents. That fact that you keep presenting a MOA as being equal to 1 inch at 100 yards, shows that you at best have a grade school level of understanding.
So what is 1 MOA @ 100 yds? Please enlighten me.. 1.047 inches ?? ... adds up too almost 1/2 inch less (if just using whole numbers) @ 1000 yds.. I will take that chance. 04 inches is 1 millimeter I think we are on to something here.
 
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So what is 1 MOA @ 100 yds? Please enlighten me.. 1.047 inches ?? ... adds up too almost 1/2 inch less (if just using whole numbers) @ 1000 yds.. I will take that chance. 04 inches is 1 millimeter I think we are on to something here.
DIdn't know you used 1 MOA to hit 1000 yards,

It stacks, you can be off as much as 20" if you cut off the .047

A 308 to 1000 is over 35 MOA so 16" pretty sure that is a miss
 
DIdn't know you used 1 MOA to hit 1000 yards,

It stacks, you can be off as much as 20" if you cut off the .047

A 308 to 1000 is over 35 MOA so 16" pretty sure that is a miss
You got me on that one. Thank you for making a validate point for once and why I don't shoot 308! That was more towards a quick range estimation.

That statement means a lot coming from you meaning you agree that 1 MOA is 1inish.
 
@chickon1 you have been a good sport in all this. However, I may have to comment on the last couple of items.

When we started this dance, I interpreted your question I believe correctly. By that I mean mental conversion to linear units based off of range and reticle units (post#7). In that post I demonstrated how I approach this with examples (I guess in meters, rangefinder in meters, if given yards convert to meters, and if I need to debate with someone using MOA I convert from mils). I stated it was nothing special it is just what I use so I don’t have to think about it. I assumed everyone understood that all spotting/correction was done in angular units (mils ir moa), and that in mixed company we converted angular units (multiply or divide by 3.48: round to 3.5 in most cases).

So the reverse is obvious if you are using moa. Nothing special.

Currently the point I am now unsure of is MY assumption that we both understand that spotting/correcting fire is strictly in angular units? Does not matter whether moa or mils (3.48 or round to 3.5 if conversion from one to the other in mixed company is required). No linear units required. And if we are shooting at the same target, we are all speaking about needed corrections to get on target, therefore still in angular units and no linear units required (you need corrections in moa, and I want them in mils). Are we in agreement here?
 
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You got me on that one. Thank you for making a validate point for once and why I don't shoot 308! That was more towards a quick range estimation.

That statement means a lot coming from you meaning you agree that 1 MOA is 1inish.
I have no idea what point you’re trying to make, but the one point you’ve unintentionally made is that you don’t know how to spot, in either MOA or mils.
 
You got me on that one. Thank you for making a validate point for once and why I don't shoot 308! That was more towards a quick range estimation.

That statement means a lot coming from you meaning you agree that 1 MOA is 1inish.

Whoa whoa whoa.... no need to get personal here fella. I use a .308 to shoot 1k....

But then again I use mil .308 so it will reach farther than moa .308.
 
You guys keep proving my point. You "fixed" my grammar with improper grammar then added a statement in improper grammar. Never said I be good at the grammar but for your sake.

DON'T (do not) is the negative form of DO while DOESN'T (does not) is the negative form of DOES.
In this sentence:
I can help you with that..but the majority of this group probably doesn't have an high school education.
"...the majority of this group..." refers to people, and is 1st person plural if the speaker is including himself/herself within the group. This requires a "don't"

If the speaker is speaking from outside the group, then it would be 2nd person plural. This requires a "don't" as well.

To use "doesn't" it would need to be third person singular.

A group of people would never be considered singular, especially when one is referring to the individual achievements of the individuals within the group.

"a" is use before any word with a consonant sound, regardless of spelling. High School begins with a consonant.
 
I didn’t go to high school, or at least it wasn’t called a high school,

I am coming In here way late and only caught a piece of the conversation and don’t want to use the back button

Is this in regards to the S&B reticle that is in the Exos ?

Cause I have it and have used it ... ?

Is that the mix we are trying to look at ?
 
I didn’t go to high school, or at least it wasn’t called a high school,

I am coming In here way late and only caught a piece of the conversation and don’t want to use the back button

Is this in regards to the S&B reticle that is in the Exos ?

Cause I have it and have used it ... ?

Is that the mix we are trying to look at ?

What we have is a guy over here who measures corrections in inches as a spotter, and then converts to MOA before passing it to the unfortunate sap he’s spotting for. Does he run down the field and measure with a ruler, before running back while doing high speed math in his head? Maybe. I’m not entirely sure of his process to be honest. Anyway, that pretty much brings you up to speed on this thread.
 
You guys must have cabin fever.
Yes. It will be single digit temperatures just north of Houston tonight. A once in 4 decade kind of weather. Rolling blackouts because of fucktards fleeing shithole places to move to Texas, on top of home grown stupid believing in unreliable green energy. Plus Obama BS putting coal fired plants out of business. So yes, cabin fever, racist, white privileged, pissed off Texan. Otherwise....all good😀
 
And now, back to MOA vs MIL, with asides concerning grammar, testicle measurements, yards vs meters and their relationship to spotting corrections, and whose more educated.

We have suggested the need to include spin drift, consumption of spin D, SFP vs FFP, sextant use to determine latitude, a brilliant new angular unit called MILOA (and I’ve been knocking it out of the park on this thread [with much help], but @Rocketvapor still has the lead with this idea), and a side discussion about Hendrix upside-down use of a right-handed guitar.

I think that fairly sums this up? Did I leave out any of the finer moments?

Oh yes, I summarized the recent MIA vs MIL threads over the past year, and suggested that we limit future discussions to an Annual Snipers Hide MOA vs MIL Festival, and that it occur during National MOA vs MIL Month (February), and be accompanied by a festival to celebrate said topic (with reseach, a journal, and I am considering soliciting funding for an endowed academic chair devoted to this topic)!!

In engineering, of course (duh, the rest of us are stupid).

Sincerely, commode cleaner of the Hide...

TriggerJerk (recent nominee for president and emperor: damn I love this place).
 
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I didn’t go to high school, or at least it wasn’t called a high school,

I am coming In here way late and only caught a piece of the conversation and don’t want to use the back button

Is this in regards to the S&B reticle that is in the Exos ?

Cause I have it and have used it ... ?

Is that the mix we are trying to look at ?
The high school stab was for the constant engineering stabs at me.. They can dish it but can't take it I guess. Anyway boss man, only point I was trying to make is that for me at least, it's easier to do the MOA math than it is for MIL.. that's it .. due to moa for shooting uses inches and yards vs mil using cm and meters. Not talking about using reticles, turrets, calling out MOA and converting to mils, impact corrections with reticle or sprinkling cocaine on the bullet so it won't drop as much. I do believe squirrel balls were used at some point as a reference.

Most of the responses were:
You are an idiot
WTF do inches have to do with MOA
WTF linear measurements have to due with MOA or MIL
You are an idiot
Milliradian is not metric even though it is in the name. Kinda like Antifa I guess.
 
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Actually if you are using Inches and MOA together you are using IPHY or SMOA

Those are variations on it, so they do match the linear value, but its a bad way to do precision rifle business because there is a built in 5% error, especially if you are talking MOA and using Inches together

But I know what you are doing, it's just a very bad practice, that said, if you are just playing with yourself, no big deal, once you start including your friends, tummy sticks buddy

Its a valid method when you explain it that way, but it is very flawed, one because you can't measure that far away without help, and two because you are actually mixing Nomenclature which is why you are being called out.

Once you start mixing values, you lose, MOA vs IPHY is 5% out the door and the further you shoot the worse it becomes
 
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@chickon1 Of course using inches and yards is easier for most when doing math.

But WHY are you doing math? The point that everyone is trying to make is that there is no math.

For example, at 500yds my drop is right at 4 mils. How many inches is that?? Don’t know and don’t care. I just correct 4 mils. No math.

You seem to be punishing yourself by saying at 500 yards you drop 14.4 inches which when extrapolated to 100 yards would be 2.88 MOA and if you have a 1/4 moa adjustment means you need to dial basically 12 clicks. (Rough math, you get the point).

Surely you can see this, right?
 
Actually if you are using Inches and MOA together you are using IPHY or SMOA

Those are variations on it, so they do match the linear value, but its a bad way to do precision rifle business because there is a built in 5% error, especially if you are talking MOA and using Inches together

But I know what you are doing, it's just a very bad practice, that said, if you are just playing with yourself, no big deal, once you start including your friends, tummy sticks buddy

Its a valid method when you explain it that way, but it is very flawed, one because you can't measure that far away without help, and two because you are actually mixing Nomenclature which is why you are being called out.

Once you start mixing values, you lose, MOA vs IPHY is 5% out the door and the further you shoot the worse it becomes
I would actually use 1.047in if I was trying to be precise in which I'm not but wouldn't you have the same issue with MIL?? You involve even more variation converting inches to mil. I just use a damn calculator like everyone else for precision shooting.
 
Now he's gonna argue fractions are easier then ten dimes in a dollar, to the guy that hammers that analogy...,.

Corn poppin, your up cable guy
The high school stab was for the constant engineering stabs at me.. They can dish it but can't take it I guess. Anyway boss man, only point I was trying to make is that for me at least, it's easier to do the MOA math than it is for MIL.. that's it .. due to moa for shooting uses inches and yards vs mil using cm and meters. Not talking about using reticles, turrets, calling out MOA and converting to mils, impact corrections with reticle or sprinkling cocaine on the bullet so it won't drop as much. I do believe squirrel balls were used at some point as a reference.

Most of the responses were:
You are an idiot
WTF do inches have to do with MOA
WTF linear measurements have to due with MOA or MIL
You are an idiot
Milliradian is not metric even though it is in the name. Kinda like Antifa I guess.
 
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You still don't get it. There is NO MATH!

And you sticking to your way of doing things in the face of all the real deal folks here just shows you cannot be taught. That is not a good trait in an engineer.
This is the best one yet.. Do a quick search of MOA and Mil math.. unless you don't know how to do that, I can show you. It's why they are call ballistic "calculators"
 
This is the best one yet.. Do a quick search of MOA and Mil math.. unless you don't know how to do that, I can show you. It's why they are call ballistic "calculators"
Your very first post talked about inches per 100 yard and corrections, which is not how you do corrections anyway. Now you are talking about ballistic calculators, which also have nothing to do with inches. You just dial mil or moa as spat out. No inches anywhere. Size only matters in ranging, and who the hell does that anyway these days. We use these things called "laser rangefinders"

You are either trolling or so completely fucking clueless you are beyond hope.
 
Education freebie......
Here is your Original Post.... I bolded the question you asked (even with incorrect punctuation), as it is the salient point of the post.
Yes, bringing this up again because I can never get a real answer, even during a match with the top shooters. I know this is not really that big of a deal with calculator and all. What is even more odd, I have watched videos on people not in the US doing reviews on certain items and they are using MOA.

Just like stirring the POT..

Why do we use mil if all the targets are in yards. I consider myself "good" at math, but solving equations with less variables seems to be easier.

"Reasons" I've heard for Mil
They are in tenths.. that would be great if you were using meters
Mil uses whole numbers instead of factions.. really? Not after you do the math
It's what the military snipers use.. Being a vet, military uses meters
It's what I learned on..
The reason I use mil== the dude with the $2K weather station in my caulk is calling out wind corrections in mil!
I only have to come up 1mil vs 64424 clicks on MOA, which in PRS, makes a difference when adjusting for yardage . It about the same clicks but double the whole numbers and less of them, which is easier to deal with under pressure.

About the only thing I've figured out is maybe all the really high-end scopes that are made in Europe use mil only for a while and mil "dot" reticles came out earlier to use for range est.

Easy Math for yards and bullet drop or est. distance:
1 MOA @ 100 yards equals 1 inch
1 Mil @ 100 meters equals 10 centimeters

Harder Math:
1 mil @ 100 yards = 3.6 in

Adjustments:
.10 mil = .36 in
1/4 MOA = .25 in
Here is your most recent post.....
only point I was trying to make is that for me at least, it's easier to do the MOA math than it is for MIL.. that's it ..
If you were only making a point, then start a thread that makes such a statement and doesn't ask a question. Admittedly, you will still receive replies that point you toward a proper education. The big problem in this thread is that you ask for an answer, and then proceed to tell everyone why their answer is inferior to your preconceived notion of truth.

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
 
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It's been said for going on 8 pages. Don't use math at all. You see the bullet splash and you say that was 1, 2, 3 little scope marks away from where I was aiming. Then, magically, you either dial those 3 little marks into the the next trigger squeeze or your hold those 3 little marks.
The really cool thing about this method is that it works no matter what units those 3 little marks represent at whatever the distance you were shooting at.
 
<<<<<

I was practicing at a range that had plates set out from 300 to just short of a 600 yd berm.
I normally shot at another range that only goes to 100 and was preparing for my first 600yd F-open.
Anyway, a friend was 'Spotting' for me.
I took a shot and not using any math (he's a mil guy, I'm a little bit moa) he says
"didn't see nothin" (in mils of course). Another shot and a little dirt splash (22N@500) and my mil guy says
"half plate right and 3/4 plate up" (in mils again). So 3rd shot is a hit.
Now, If I only knew how big the plate was. :)
 
Education freebie......
Here is your Original Post.... I bolded the question you asked (even with incorrect punctuation), as it is the salient point of the post.

Here is your most recent post.....

If you were only making a point, then start a thread that makes such a statement and doesn't ask a question. Admittedly, you will still receive replies that point you toward a proper education. The big problem in this thread is that you ask for an answer, and then proceed to tell everyone why their answer is inferior to your preconceived notion of truth.

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
If someone could give an answer that had some type of intelligent response, then maybe we wouldn't be having this conversation. I have been waiting this entire time for someone to post something along the lines of this. But no.. everything but this. That's it.. that simple. This was the first thing I learned and I practiced it.. not very practical compared to the tools we have and I would never bust this out at a match. So if your argument is, who gives a shit, I use Mil because of whatever random shit you want to tell yourself, then that's ok by me. My first Vortex Razor was MOA because I was like, who would use Mil, that's stupid.. Then I went to a match and was like.. ok.. I get it.

1 MOA spreads about 1″ per 100 yards. (actually 1.047″)

1 MOA is a different size at different distances, 8″ at 800 yards is still just 1 MOA.

This:
(Distance to target in yards) / (100) = inches per MOA at that distance

(Number of inches of adjustment needed) / (inches per MOA at that distance) = MOA adjustment

(Number of clicks per 1 MOA on scope) x (MOA adjustment) = adjustment in clicks on scope

Note, if you insist on using 1.047″ per 100 yards instead of 1″ per 100 yards, you must multiply the (inches per MOA at that distance) by 1.047.


Mils:

One Mil's Size at Various Distances (in Yards)

1002003004005006007008009001000
3.6"7.2"10.8"14.4"18.0"21.6"25.2"28.8"32.4"36.0"
One Mil's Size at Various Distances (in Meters)

1002003004005006007008009001000
10cm20cm30cm40cm50cm60cm70cm80cm90cm1 Meter

and This:
20 mm/50 m = 0.4 mrad, or 4 clicks with a 1/10 mrad adjustment scope.
50 mm/1000 m = 0.05 mrad, or 1 click with a 0.05 mrad adjustment scope.

There are literally thousands of references to this all over the place and you guys have no clue what I'm talking about? Kinda hard to believe. This has to be some kind of joke.
 
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If someone could give an answer that had some type of intelligent response, then maybe we wouldn't be having this conversation. I have been waiting this entire time for someone to post something along the lines of this. But no.. everything but this. That's it.. that simple. This was the first thing I learned and I practiced it.. not very practical compared to the tools we have and I would never bust this out at a match. So if your argument is, who gives a shit, I use Mil because of whatever random shit you want to tell yourself, then that's ok by me. My first Vortex Razor was MOA because I was like, who would use Mil, that's stupid.. Then I went to a match and was like.. ok.. I get it.

1 MOA spreads about 1″ per 100 yards. (actually 1.047″)

1 MOA is a different size at different distances, 8″ at 800 yards is still just 1 MOA.

This:
(Distance to target in yards) / (100) = inches per MOA at that distance

(Number of inches of adjustment needed) / (inches per MOA at that distance) = MOA adjustment

(Number of clicks per 1 MOA on scope) x (MOA adjustment) = adjustment in clicks on scope




Mils:

One Mil's Size at Various Distances (in Yards)

1002003004005006007008009001000
3.6"7.2"10.8"14.4"18.0"21.6"25.2"28.8"32.4"36.0"
One Mil's Size at Various Distances (in Meters)

1002003004005006007008009001000
10cm20cm30cm40cm50cm60cm70cm80cm90cm1 Meter

and This:
20 mm/50 m = 0.4 mrad, or 4 clicks with a 1/10 mrad adjustment scope.
50 mm/1000 m = 0.05 mrad, or 1 click with a 0.05 mrad adjustment scope.

There are literally thousands of references to this all over the place and you guys have no clue what I'm talking about? Kinda hard to believe. This has to be some kind of joke.

97a.gif
 
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If someone could give an answer that had some type of intelligent response, then maybe we wouldn't be having this conversation. I have been waiting this entire time for someone to post something along the lines of this. But no.. everything but this. That's it.. that simple. This was the first thing I learned and I practiced it.. not very practical compared to the tools we have and I would never bust this out at a match. So if your argument is, who gives a shit, I use Mil because of whatever random shit you want to tell yourself, then that's ok by me. My first Vortex Razor was MOA because I was like, who would use Mil, that's stupid.. Then I went to a match and was like.. ok.. I get it.

1 MOA spreads about 1″ per 100 yards. (actually 1.047″)

1 MOA is a different size at different distances, 8″ at 800 yards is still just 1 MOA.

This:
(Distance to target in yards) / (100) = inches per MOA at that distance

(Number of inches of adjustment needed) / (inches per MOA at that distance) = MOA adjustment

(Number of clicks per 1 MOA on scope) x (MOA adjustment) = adjustment in clicks on scope




Mils:

One Mil's Size at Various Distances (in Yards)

1002003004005006007008009001000
3.6"7.2"10.8"14.4"18.0"21.6"25.2"28.8"32.4"36.0"
One Mil's Size at Various Distances (in Meters)

1002003004005006007008009001000
10cm20cm30cm40cm50cm60cm70cm80cm90cm1 Meter

and This:
20 mm/50 m = 0.4 mrad, or 4 clicks with a 1/10 mrad adjustment scope.
50 mm/1000 m = 0.05 mrad, or 1 click with a 0.05 mrad adjustment scope.

There are literally thousands of references to this all over the place and you guys have no clue what I'm talking about? Kinda hard to believe. This has to be some kind of joke.
I have absolutely no idea what you’re trying to say here.
 
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due to moa for shooting uses inches and yards vs mil using cm and meters.
IF you’re an engineer and you believe that statement...then you are a disgrace to engineers and mathematically inept.

Any engineer can derive the relationship between MOA and MIL purely from the angular definitions that they represent. Linear representations are not tied to either an English or Metric system

Your reticle tells you how many MOA or MIL your POI is from your POA. No conversion to or from a linear unit is necessary. Read the reticle and dial the amount. The only way this don’t work is if the reticle and turret use different conventions.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
 
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If someone could give an answer that had some type of intelligent response, then maybe we wouldn't be having this conversation. I have been waiting this entire time for someone to post something along the lines of this. But no.. everything but this. That's it.. that simple. This was the first thing I learned and I practiced it.. not very practical compared to the tools we have and I would never bust this out at a match. So if your argument is, who gives a shit, I use Mil because of whatever random shit you want to tell yourself, then that's ok by me. My first Vortex Razor was MOA because I was like, who would use Mil, that's stupid.. Then I went to a match and was like.. ok.. I get it.

1 MOA spreads about 1″ per 100 yards. (actually 1.047″)

1 MOA is a different size at different distances, 8″ at 800 yards is still just 1 MOA.

This:
(Distance to target in yards) / (100) = inches per MOA at that distance

(Number of inches of adjustment needed) / (inches per MOA at that distance) = MOA adjustment

(Number of clicks per 1 MOA on scope) x (MOA adjustment) = adjustment in clicks on scope




Mils:

One Mil's Size at Various Distances (in Yards)

1002003004005006007008009001000
3.6"7.2"10.8"14.4"18.0"21.6"25.2"28.8"32.4"36.0"
One Mil's Size at Various Distances (in Meters)

1002003004005006007008009001000
10cm20cm30cm40cm50cm60cm70cm80cm90cm1 Meter

and This:
20 mm/50 m = 0.4 mrad, or 4 clicks with a 1/10 mrad adjustment scope.
50 mm/1000 m = 0.05 mrad, or 1 click with a 0.05 mrad adjustment scope.

There are literally thousands of references to this all over the place and you guys have no clue what I'm talking about? Kinda hard to believe. This has to be some kind of joke.
You’re a moron and can’t see the forest for the trees
 
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OP, not trying to be rude but do you hang out at the local gun store a lot or like to tell shooters at the range all the stuff they are doing wrong?

Cuz I kind of have an image in my head of what it’s like to hang around with you.

And do most of your rifles still have wood stocks?
 
@chickon1 I got it. But it alway starts a crap fight. And you did say you were just stirring the pot.

Beside some of this was damn good fun. Squirrel vs Opossum testicles? MILOA? A sextant?

Too good to let it go to waste...

But I still think we should only do it during National MOA vs MIL Month!!