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A sincere thanks to all the guys who make this match possible! The experience gained is invaluable... And the guys in my squad made it just that much more fun.
Thanks to Tom P. and Mike K. for all the hints, tips and friendly joking along the way.
Thanks to Tom P. and Mike K. for all the hints, tips and friendly joking along the way.
I would like to thank the makers of claritin. You make shooting semi possible for me. Lol.
Something kicked up my allergies something awful this trip.
Something kicked up my allergies something awful this trip.
Learned a hard lesson at this match -
Sighting in and checking dope at 7AM (when it is a nice 65 deg outside) means nothing when the majority of the shooting is done at midday 90+ deg weather. That is a 30+ degree swing...
Trajectory tends to be a little different at those temps. Ammo gets warmer, air gets hotter (thinner?) and you overshoot all the longer range targets by about a foot. I think I might need to start carrying different dope cards for different temps...
Such a humbling sport, this is....
Sighting in and checking dope at 7AM (when it is a nice 65 deg outside) means nothing when the majority of the shooting is done at midday 90+ deg weather. That is a 30+ degree swing...
Trajectory tends to be a little different at those temps. Ammo gets warmer, air gets hotter (thinner?) and you overshoot all the longer range targets by about a foot. I think I might need to start carrying different dope cards for different temps...
Such a humbling sport, this is....
Learned a hard lesson at this match -
Sighting in and checking dope at 7AM (when it is a nice 65 deg outside) means nothing when the majority of the shooting is done at midday 90+ deg weather. That is a 30+ degree swing...
Trajectory tends to be a little different at those temps. Ammo gets warmer, air gets hotter (thinner?) and you overshoot all the longer range targets by about a foot. I think I might need to start carrying different dope cards for different temps...
Such a humbling sport, this is....
At the distances shot at the match, DA is not as much of a factor as you might think. $0.02
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Learned a hard lesson at this match -
Sighting in and checking dope at 7AM (when it is a nice 65 deg outside) means nothing when the majority of the shooting is done at midday 90+ deg weather. That is a 30+ degree swing...
Trajectory tends to be a little different at those temps. Ammo gets warmer, air gets hotter (thinner?) and you overshoot all the longer range targets by about a foot. I think I might need to start carrying different dope cards for different temps...
Such a humbling sport, this is....
I shot the match with 9000' DA dope. The day started at around 8500' and was probable around 9900' during the heat of the day.
While I do not proclaim to be an expert in using ballistic calculators at all, I did fiddle around with mine (Ballistic AE) to see what effect the temp has. I kept all factors same, just changed temp from 65 to 90 and found that at the longer range (875 yards) there is a 0.4Mil difference in elevation. That is nearly a foot at that distance.
I should note that i am shooting a .308 here maybe not the best calibre for this sorta game
I should note that i am shooting a .308 here maybe not the best calibre for this sorta game
A 35 degree change in temperature is approximately a 2,000 ft. change in DA. At 875 yards, this is a 0.2 mil change in elevation for my 6.5mm 142s at 2,800 FPS. If I remember correctly that target is approximately 36 in. tall. The 6 in. elevation change could contribute to a miss, but I'd be much more likely to miss due to an incorrect wind call at that distance. It does appear to be definitely more with the 308, I guess that's why Mike gives a separate prize for 308s....
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I was checking the schedule for next years match dates and saw there is a new team match date added. Cant wait to see what you have planned for us and Im pumped to shoot it.
Let me know if you need any addition targets/stands I have tons of stuff from the matches I have put on and would be happy to lend out what I have.
Let me know if you need any addition targets/stands I have tons of stuff from the matches I have put on and would be happy to lend out what I have.
Briefly, this is the current thinking on the team match:
A 2-day, 2-person team match for AR15 (.223/5.56 only) and precision rifle using the basic SRM format, shoot positions and targets. One team member will be designated to precision rifle and other to AR15 on Saturday. On Sunday roles are reversed. At each position, AR15 shooter will engage targets with unlimited rounds until hits are achieved on up to three targets, then precision rifle shooter may engage all six targets with one round each, all within a five minute time limit. 9 point maximum for each position, 90 points for the day and 180 points for the match. Coaching or calling of shots will only be permitted between team members. All other SRM rules would remain the same.
Set up will be on Friday with the range open 3-5 for practice. Range would also be open for 45 minutes on Saturday and Sunday morning before match starts.
All of this is subject to change.
On a different subject, there are some new rules regarding squadding that will be implemented for 2014 - see the website for details.
A 2-day, 2-person team match for AR15 (.223/5.56 only) and precision rifle using the basic SRM format, shoot positions and targets. One team member will be designated to precision rifle and other to AR15 on Saturday. On Sunday roles are reversed. At each position, AR15 shooter will engage targets with unlimited rounds until hits are achieved on up to three targets, then precision rifle shooter may engage all six targets with one round each, all within a five minute time limit. 9 point maximum for each position, 90 points for the day and 180 points for the match. Coaching or calling of shots will only be permitted between team members. All other SRM rules would remain the same.
Set up will be on Friday with the range open 3-5 for practice. Range would also be open for 45 minutes on Saturday and Sunday morning before match starts.
All of this is subject to change.
On a different subject, there are some new rules regarding squadding that will be implemented for 2014 - see the website for details.
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Sounds great.
On squading to qualify for "veteran" srm shooter we just need to have shot it before or do we need to be older then mike
I will bring you a Swiss roll buddy if you can get away and shoot with us same for you Ron
On squading to qualify for "veteran" srm shooter we just need to have shot it before or do we need to be older then mike
I will bring you a Swiss roll buddy if you can get away and shoot with us same for you Ron
A veteran is someone who has shot the match at least once and knows where the targets are. The idea is to avoid a squad of newbies that wastes too much time trying to find the targets at each position.
I LOVE SWISS ROLLS!!!!!
--count me in, sometime this year! I've yet to make a jack-ass out of myself in Raton....might as well get this over with!
I like the idea of a team match but I've never owned or had an interest in gas guns. I wonder if there is a way to do a precision rifle option for a team match, or maybe a team sub-category for the regular SRM. Perhaps team members could pair fire from the same position within the allotted time for a shared score? Or maybe the first shooter takes a shot at a target and if there is a miss the 2nd shooter can attempt the same target for fewer points, and shooters trade off on who goes first? For a two-day match maybe there could be a shooter/spotter team that switch roles on the 2nd day? This might work well to introduce some new shooters because a shooter/spotter team could easily share a rifle this way.
One thing I've not liked about most tactical matches is there is zero feedback on misses. In an F-class match you can take a guess at the wind and you get immediate feedback with a marker showing where you hit. I think this gives you a better opportunity to learn wind, but the target is always the same so it can get boring. With a team match at SRM I think there is a possibility for the best of both worlds.
I like the idea of a team match, would also be more excited to see the gas gun option to include .308?
I believe the purpose of using the 223 ar15 carbine is the challenge of using that weapon system on targets /stages that are challenging using higher BC (6, 6.5,7mm) cartages that is why there is unlimited rounds for the carbine shooter.
Second about feed back on shots fired, I can see where my rounds go both hits and misses nearly all the time because I shoot a rifle that I can manage the recoil enough that I see the impacts. The 7wsm with a brake you shoot produces blast so great that I blink every time you shoot and can't spot your shots when sitting anywhere near you. if you cant spot your own shots a change of gear might be in order, there is a draw back to shooting a mag and that is one of them.
Second about feed back on shots fired, I can see where my rounds go both hits and misses nearly all the time because I shoot a rifle that I can manage the recoil enough that I see the impacts. The 7wsm with a brake you shoot produces blast so great that I blink every time you shoot and can't spot your shots when sitting anywhere near you. if you cant spot your own shots a change of gear might be in order, there is a draw back to shooting a mag and that is one of them.
That's as may be; I'm always tinkering with things anyway. My main point was that I like the idea of a team match. If the gas gun rule sticks maybe I can just team with someone that has one? With unlimited rounds, what about a shotgun? Well, I don't have one of those either... handful of rocks?
Semiauto only right?, which would limit to 77 grainers and lighter.
The reason why I ask is I can see someone showing up with their spacegun shooting 90's/.551BC at 2900 fps which I'm thinking isn't in line with what you've intended. I don't own a spacegun and wouldn't really want to compete against one. Just saying...
Im sure the carbine will be required to meet 3 gun tactical class requirements just like the TB Team Match. We should let Mike/Michael get the rules out first before we are asking them to change them, it's not their first rodeo.
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Thanks for adding the new squadding rule. I was on Stan's squad of 6 in the September match when three new shooters jumped in at the last minute, and we didn't finish until 4:30 or 5:00, in a thunderstorm, after most shooters had finished shooting and were heading home. It sucked for us.
Not sure what 3 gun tactical class requirements are, but I hope the rules are simple and at a minimum. The more rules there are, the fun factor drops accordingly. I'm hoping it's something simple like:
Caliber - 223/5.56
Carbine type - Semiauto
That way I'm not limited to an AR and can shot my SIG550. Could you imagine if we had a stupid rule for the precision rifle such as you have to shoot a bolt action Savage. It would be the same if it was only AR's.
3-gun rifle rules will not be used.
The current thinking is to simply say: "(Rule 2.1 Addition) AR15 shall be a semi-automatic rifle chambered for .223 Remington/5.56 NATO ammunition with a maximum bullet weight of 77 grains and maximum muzzle velocity of 3200 fps."
However, the AR15 will also be subject to the other SRM Section 2 Equipment Rules. Note that this would specifically require slings as well as allow bipods and sand bags. Existing bullet type limitations may be more aggressively enforced due to the wide availability of non-conforming .223/.556 ammo - we are concerned about preventing target damage and wildfire hazard.
Again, all subject to change. I would guess that things will get firmed up after the first match of 2014.
The current thinking is to simply say: "(Rule 2.1 Addition) AR15 shall be a semi-automatic rifle chambered for .223 Remington/5.56 NATO ammunition with a maximum bullet weight of 77 grains and maximum muzzle velocity of 3200 fps."
However, the AR15 will also be subject to the other SRM Section 2 Equipment Rules. Note that this would specifically require slings as well as allow bipods and sand bags. Existing bullet type limitations may be more aggressively enforced due to the wide availability of non-conforming .223/.556 ammo - we are concerned about preventing target damage and wildfire hazard.
Again, all subject to change. I would guess that things will get firmed up after the first match of 2014.
There is now additional information available for the August 23-24 Sporting Rifle Team Match on the website: The NRA Whittington Center Sporting Rifle Match
Hey Guys,
My buddy had what I thought was a good idea.
Ya know how probably everyone has components sitting in the cabinet that they will probably never use? Like open boxes of bullets you've tried, powder that you may have moved on from, etc?
He proposed that we try to contact everyone who normally shoots the match and try to organize a Swap Meet.
Everybody bring up all of these components on Saturday, Practice Day, and see if we can swap them between each other or sell them to each other. If anyone has some kind of email list of the guys who normally shoot, or can just let their buddies know, maybe we can start this at the April Match.
My buddy had what I thought was a good idea.
Ya know how probably everyone has components sitting in the cabinet that they will probably never use? Like open boxes of bullets you've tried, powder that you may have moved on from, etc?
He proposed that we try to contact everyone who normally shoots the match and try to organize a Swap Meet.
Everybody bring up all of these components on Saturday, Practice Day, and see if we can swap them between each other or sell them to each other. If anyone has some kind of email list of the guys who normally shoot, or can just let their buddies know, maybe we can start this at the April Match.
I agree, great idea.
Suggestion, post what you're going to bring or what you're looking for. If I can make to the April match, I can bring three sealed 1-lbs bottles of H4831SC, and a like new ADM Recon SW 34mm mount. Would like in trade, virgin or once fired Federal 260Rem brass, Varget, New AW 308 10-round mag, and/or Sako TRG new style butt pad.
Suggestion, post what you're going to bring or what you're looking for. If I can make to the April match, I can bring three sealed 1-lbs bottles of H4831SC, and a like new ADM Recon SW 34mm mount. Would like in trade, virgin or once fired Federal 260Rem brass, Varget, New AW 308 10-round mag, and/or Sako TRG new style butt pad.
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I'll be attending this match for the first time in April...definitely looking forward to it.
If we end up doing the swap meet thing on Saturday, count me in. I have: Trijicon RX30, new in package Murphy Precision 0 MOA rail for AI AE, 300 weatherby dies (rcbs), 25 pieces of 2x fired 300 weatherby brass...annealed, ready to prep, and I think I've got a pound or two sealed of IMR 4064, PP 2000MR...I have other goodies too, just too tired to list it all right now. I'm looking for: a good pair of shooting sticks, kestrel 4500, bushnell 1600 arc (elite version, not fusion) or comparable LRF, wiebad pump pillow, Str8 laced or Wiebad rear bag, etc...the list goes on. I'm even open to low/no round count 6.5 creedmoor, 260 rem, or 6mm Creedmoor barrels for an AI AE. Cash, trades, whatever works.
Great idea...hope the swap meet thing happens.
If we end up doing the swap meet thing on Saturday, count me in. I have: Trijicon RX30, new in package Murphy Precision 0 MOA rail for AI AE, 300 weatherby dies (rcbs), 25 pieces of 2x fired 300 weatherby brass...annealed, ready to prep, and I think I've got a pound or two sealed of IMR 4064, PP 2000MR...I have other goodies too, just too tired to list it all right now. I'm looking for: a good pair of shooting sticks, kestrel 4500, bushnell 1600 arc (elite version, not fusion) or comparable LRF, wiebad pump pillow, Str8 laced or Wiebad rear bag, etc...the list goes on. I'm even open to low/no round count 6.5 creedmoor, 260 rem, or 6mm Creedmoor barrels for an AI AE. Cash, trades, whatever works.
Great idea...hope the swap meet thing happens.
Sounds good,
I have LOTS of partial boxes of 6.5 mm hunting bullets such as Barnes, Nosler, Sierra, Hornady, that I thought guys may want. It's great not to have to buy a whole box of something to see if it shoots. I've got about 15# of WC-872 which works great in overbore cartridges such as the .264 Win Mag and even 50BMG
Try to get the word out to others.
I have LOTS of partial boxes of 6.5 mm hunting bullets such as Barnes, Nosler, Sierra, Hornady, that I thought guys may want. It's great not to have to buy a whole box of something to see if it shoots. I've got about 15# of WC-872 which works great in overbore cartridges such as the .264 Win Mag and even 50BMG
Try to get the word out to others.
Probably slim chance, would trade these primers and rings for Berger 105 Hybrids or 180 Hybrids. Also trade for CCI 400's and 450's.
4.8K CCI BR2's
5K Wolf LR
1K Wolf 223
1k Wolf SRM
Seekins 34mm 6/4 rings, 1' height
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The first monthly Swap Meet had 3 participants.
C'mon Man! LOL!
Maybe if we post here what we have to trade or sell, it will get things rollin'
I brought 20 pounds of hunting bullets and I really thought some guys would appreciate being able to get a partial box of something they wanted to try in their rifle without buying a whole box. I probably have 90% of every 6.5 mm hunting bullet available just sitting there in my cabinet. I'll bring them again next month to see if they can find a home. Many of the boxes are whole 100ct boxes like the Swift Sciroccos that I have over 400 to trade.
Fun match and challenging ever-changing conditions of wind, temperature, precipitation, lighting! Crazy day! Typical Springtime in the Rockys!
C'mon Man! LOL!
Maybe if we post here what we have to trade or sell, it will get things rollin'
I brought 20 pounds of hunting bullets and I really thought some guys would appreciate being able to get a partial box of something they wanted to try in their rifle without buying a whole box. I probably have 90% of every 6.5 mm hunting bullet available just sitting there in my cabinet. I'll bring them again next month to see if they can find a home. Many of the boxes are whole 100ct boxes like the Swift Sciroccos that I have over 400 to trade.
Fun match and challenging ever-changing conditions of wind, temperature, precipitation, lighting! Crazy day! Typical Springtime in the Rockys!
Definitely good times, especially as my first time at this match. By far the best time shooting I've had in a long time. Now I have a laundry list of things to change/do differently next time around
See you next month.
Had a great time shooting in the squad with you Andrew. It was Susie's first time seeing what the SRM is all about so it was nice having a great group of guys in the squad. I was actually going to PM you about ballistics later tonight. See you next month.
Jim
The wildlife sideshow at this match can be pretty good. Deer and turkey mostly, but elk and bear as well - all pretty much oblivious to gunfire and the clanging of targets. Its pretty common to have to stop the clock and wait for the critters to move away from the targets. The toms put on a good show this weekend with their strutting and gobbling around the targets. Congrats to Rick on the win, Tom (not the turkey) as best old fart, Chris with the 308 and Seth as FNG - from the memory of an old fart, so I hope I got it right.
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