Monthly Sporting Rifle match RATON NM

[rmfield]

We've just been advised by the Whittington Center that they have closed the area that we hold the Sporting Rifle Match due to high fire danger. This means that tomorrow's AR match and the regular Sporting Rifle Match are cancelled. Sorry for the late notice, but we only heard minutes ago.

 

[rmfield]

Bad news. The Whittington Center has decided to close the area that we hold the Sporting Rifle Match to all shooting events for the remainder of this year and possibly further into the future. Therefore, all scheduled regular Sporting Rifle Matches, Sporting Rifle AR matches and the Sporting Rifle Team Match are cancelled for 2018. The Magnum Rifle match which is held on the front side of the Whittington Center will continue as currently scheduled. We will post any developments regarding the future of the Sporting Rifle Match here as well as the Match Website. (sportingriflematch.com)

 

[Zak Smith]

Web site updated

 

[c ward]

So as of now Mike is working on a few options that are still in progress and the outcome will not be known till the end of July best case .

For everyone that has shot this match and would like it to continue the best way to help now is to email the NRAWC and express your dissatisfaction with what is going on . The contact email address are below ,

Josh Adams - Exec Director - [email protected]

Ken Mestas - Program Director - [email protected]

Two things to include in your emails is the location of the match was as much of the draw as the match itself and why now is fire danger an issue when it hasn't ever been in the past 14 1/2 year even when Raton pass burned .

Please be polite as they have a generally good opinion of us as a group down there now and being a dick about it is not going to help .

 

[stevenc23]

Emails sent. Hope others will follow suit.

 

[Eneranch]

Emails sent

 

[terrell35744]

emails sent

 

[D_TROS]

email sent. someone needs post this on FB for more coverage...

 

[c ward]

Already is in a few places .

 

[nmmi9100]

Email sent.

 

[c ward]

Bad news , as of now all the SRM and associated matches have been cancelled indefinitely . As suspected the WC offered the magnum match location as the suitable replacement which we all know was not suitable for the SRM coarse .

It sucks that this is the way we were treated after 14 years running the SRM matches there , definitely not the hoped for ending .

I do not know what other plans are in the works and that is all in Mike's hands .

 

[nmmi9100]

Any ideas on what is driving Whittington management to want to end such a successful long term match? That section of the WC property sees virtually no use except for us in the summer and hunting in the fall/winter. I don’t get it. I never received an e-mail back from Mr. Adams.

/David

 

[c ward]

FUDD politics , there is a huge back story that can not be shared quite yet but when the regime changed and a new executive director took over at the end of last year the hunters came back to the front of the line and the shooters pushed back again .

 

[bas402]

It’s called Money!!!

 

[c ward]

No it's not money because our match never competed with anything else for revenue , when no one shoots over there it sets empty and unused except for hunting season and from the beginning we shut the match down during hunting season .

They flat out told us that Coal Canyon was being closed to shooting to preserve the pristine land for the hunters . Now keep in mind the WC is built on an old coal mine when applying the term pristine .

 

[mcfred]

Other than a 2/3rds mile long footpath I don't know exactly what has been "impacted" by the SRM. I shot the SRM a few times with 30-40 other competitors and the deer, antelope and turkey didn't mind one bit that bullets were whizzin' over head. They'd graze through the valley as though nothing was going on. Hunters should be happy to have the wildlife de-sensitised to gunfire. What gives?

Also the last couple weeks it's also been raining again in that area so it's a weak argument about the fire danger. I hope Mike can manage to secure the valley for the SRM again.

Emails will be sent to NRAWC reps...

 

[c ward]

Regime change and the hunters have the power again and they are doing as previously when there was a hunter in charge the did not like competitive shooting or black rifles .

 

[V-Ref]

When you shoot once a year to "sight in the ole' fire stick" using good ole RL22 and your favrut' 168 great Barnes Barnyard Busters..you won't ever comprehend Precision Rifle Competitive Shooting disciplines.

Has anyone invited the new "Hunter" to attend a match? Might open some eyes and bring new awareness and appreciation.

Fragmentation of the shooting community is mucho bad....even if we don't fully appreciate other disciplines, we should respect them.

The people on the other end of the 2A spectrum are 1000000% unified in thier cause. Too bad "we're" not.

 

[c ward]

Supposedly the new executive director has shot CORRECTED BELOW before , I can't confirm it but that info came from a reliable source that could . This comes from above that level on the board of regents for WC .

The match director contacted me and it was not the Steel Safari but the 2012 TBAC Challenge and him and his partner were 25 of 27 teams .

To illustrate what we are up against the president of the board is a 76 year old past NRA president who is a layer and self described lifetime hunter . We are up against the as long as they don't come for my hunting gun crowd who will tell you with a straight face that they support the 2nd amendment but at the same time say they don't see why anybody needs one of those , insert the evil gun or part of the moment here , and be ok with more laws as long as it doesn't affect them .

 

[c ward]

Also from day 1 there has been a standing invite for the WC people to come out and shoot with us and even use our guns and gear . In 14 years there have been 2 or 3 takers .

 

[bas402]

Did the match pay the WC for use of the property? Share in the costs associated like insurance?

 

[Zak Smith]

Of course. The financial arrangement was extremely advantageous for NRAWC. My understand is that all fees went to NRAWC outside of an extremely small slice held aside for target replacement and the minimal top-shooter paybacks. The staff of the SRM got no pay and no expenses reimbursed for the entire run. The original targetry was funded by donations from a smallish set of shooters back in '04 or whatever (myself included).

 

[c ward]

So here is a little history of the match . The match started in 04 when a group of mostly Denver metro area shooters got together , Zak , myself , and at least one more member here being among them , and kicked in money to purchase the material and construct the targets , stands , and position signs .

The match staff have always been volunteers and have payed the same match entry fees as all the shooters did , originally at 25 $ and then after 3 or 4 years 30 $ . Of the match fees 20 $ went to the WC , 5 $ went to cash payback , and when the fee was raised 5 $ went to an operating fund to purchase replacement steel , paint , straps , score sheets , ETC .

The WC provided no funding for the targets or match supply's and the only support provided over the life of the match was after 2 or 3 years a 1 hole shiter was brought over and a hole dug and starting last year most of the time they brought a trailer with 4 portable toilets on them when the last program director saw the number of female shooters attending the match . So for the majority of the match for letting us use the land that is unused otherwise was a couple of rolls of shit paper and a raggedy blue fiberglass hut full of bullet holes . For this they got between 200 ish , during the first couple of years , to between 700 - 1200 $ for every match we shot 8 times a year .

So I'm pretty sure we more than payed our way not including the lodging they sold and bringing people from as far away as Australia to shoot the match , yes we had a shooter and one of his friends from Grand junction that would schedule his vacation to come to the states and shoot at WC for a week to coincide with the match .

 

[bas402]

Chuck I’m not taking any sides here, i loved shooting that match. I know it cost a lot of money to put on a match, IE land and liability insurance alone are tremendous plus other essentials, most folks don’t realize the expense. Wasn’t implying that the match was getting a free ride just thought the “ new” guy in charge needed to show more profit to look good

 

[Zak Smith]

For NRAWC, it's all profit because there are no incremental expenditures per the SRM.

 

[bas402]

Well I look at it this way, that door closed and another will open, I wish Mike the best seeking something else if that’s what he ops to do and I will support that if it comes.

 

[mcfred]

Ted Turner's ranch is across the street... Seems like $5600-$9600 profit a year for letting some guys shoot some steel would appeal to a businessman.

 

[c ward]

WC is set up as a non profit entity so in theory the can not show a profit . The land was donated by the namesake a long time ago so the the land cost has long been amortized .


Trust me this was FUDD politics by the members of the board of regents that favor the hunters being back in a position to influence things . Did you ever wonder why it was called Sporting Rifle Match and the rules used to prohibit military camo and AR 15s untill about 4 years ago , it wasn't because we were being assholes it was to placate Mike Ballew who was the executive director at the time because we sold the match as being practice for " hunting " because he is the type that is exactly like I described above and did everything possible to impeade competitive shooting there and keep the place as his private hunting preserve . Was a happy day when he left as director .

 

[V-Ref]

The FUDD movement in our Country is a gift to the left that desires all guns to be banned.
Ironically, it's FUDDs who are less likely to have safe storage, who don't shoot enough to be proficient, are the real wildfire hazards to BLM/Public lands, and are the ones you you watch at the range sweeping muzzles, hammering bolts, and shooting pizza boxes for targets.

The left will segregate "2A supporters", and facilitate thier agenda, if "we" don't catch on sooner vs later.

 

[dieselboy427]

I loved the SRM when i got to go. Its been a busy last couple of years here, and i haven't had much time to shoot. First they closed the Icehouse and now the SRM.

 

[verdugo60]

Emails sent

 

[verdugo60]

I emailed expressing my dissapointment and stated I would be contacting NRA HQ in DC. This is the email I received from from the Executive Director Joshua Adams. I'll post my reply, I fired back with both barrels, but politely, lol.

There are many factors that came into play in regards to the closure of Coal Canyon for competitive shooting, fire danger being one of them.

To be clear, the NRA Whittington Center did not cancel any Sporting Rifle Matches. The NRA Whittington Center provided a viable alternative location for the Sporting Rifle Matches to continue, however it was the match director that made the decision to cancel the remaining matches for 2018.



As a police officer, I would hope that you would want to hear both sides of the story before rushing to judgement. Now that you do know the actual facts, please assist us with disseminating the truth, and not hearsay, to others that may have received misinformation.



Thank you for your inquiry,





Joshua Adams

Executive Director
NRA Whittington Center

 

[verdugo60]

Mr. Adams,

I am willing to listen to both sides of the argument and I have been advised of the "fire danger" issue. It has never been a factor in 14 years. If it was simply a temporary closure for fire safety I would be completely ok with it. I think everyone else would have been too.

As a Police Officer I have also been made aware of administrations and how their politics and biases affect policies and people.

The alternative location was apparently not a viable venue for the match and not nearly as well suited. This smells more of internal politics in favor of hunters vs competitive shooters. If it is truly an issue of fire danger then why not allow the match to be in the same venue later in the season or take some precautions like removing brush or grass from near the target faces?

I am not accusing you of anything Sir, I don't know you personally and like to give people the benefit of the doubt.

The NRA and people who support the 2nd Amendment need to stand together now more than ever. There is a real threat to our freedoms and values from the left and their pawns. I hope this can be resolved and the match can continue. I do not wish to foster ill will. Is there any way the shooters can assist in resolving the issue through volunteer work and continue to shoot in the canyon?

On a related note, myself and several shooters would love to come to NRA WC and shoot some Extreme Long Range (1000 yds+) if such a venue is available there. That particular interest is getting very popular and would be a great draw to NRA members and shooters from all over the country.

Thank you for your prompt response to my earlier email.

Sincerely,

ME

 

[stevenc23]

There are many factors that came into play in regards to the closure of Coal Canyon for competitive shooting

They continue to say this OVER AND OVER again yet NEVER say what those factors are despite being asked directly.

The NRA Whittington Center provided a viable alternative location for the Sporting Rifle Matches to continue, however it was the match director that made the decision to cancel the remaining matches for 2018.

Going to call BS on this as well. The Whittington Center called us at 5PM on Friday after we had spent several hours setting up for Saturday's match and said we could not shoot the Saturday Match due to fire danger. There was no way in hell the match could be moved in that short of time frame.

Although an alternative location was given it was NOT even close to being a viable alternative.

Ultimately they can certainly do as they wish regarding shooting in Coal Canyon. BUT the dishonest and cowardly way that they have handled this situation is PATHETIC!!

 

[verdugo60]

Steven, I gathered as much. Maybe it is worth organizing an email campaighn to NRA proper? Can't look good for a new director if a bunch of NRA members email about mismanagement.

 

[stevenc23]

Steven, I gathered as much. Maybe it is worth organizing an email campaighn to NRA proper? Can't look good for a new director if a bunch of NRA members email about mismanagement.

I believe that is exactly what will happen. As I understand it there are one or 2 more issues the current SRM Directors need to take care of before we "take it to the next level."

I will defer to C Ward on the timing

 

[Zak Smith]

ZUMBO

 

[c ward]

We've got a couple more weeks before we can escalate things after the weekend of the 11th we'll be GTG and will be climbing up the food chain so to speak , one of those things is getting in touch with the NRA BOD .

Look at my previous posts here about them saying it's not their fault , that is technically true but they did make it practically impossible for us to keep running the matches . Actually it looks like I hadn't posted previously about this , Steve's post above pretty well covers it . The match was cancelled for fire danger at 5pm Fri evening with the caveat that you could move your stuff and set up on the front range , anybody who has seen the SRM course knows it would have been physically impossible to move all the targets in the 3 hours of daylight left let alone set up the course for a match at 8 am the next morning .


It is nice to see that they are getting their panties in a bunch about the emails .

 

[KevinU]

I emailed expressing my dissapointment and stated I would be contacting NRA HQ in DC. This is the email I received from from the Executive Director Joshua Adams. I'll post my reply, I fired back with both barrels, but politely, lol.

There are many factors that came into play in regards to the closure of Coal Canyon for competitive shooting, fire danger being one of them.

To be clear, the NRA Whittington Center did not cancel any Sporting Rifle Matches. The NRA Whittington Center provided a viable alternative location for the Sporting Rifle Matches to continue, however it was the match director that made the decision to cancel the remaining matches for 2018.



As a police officer, I would hope that you would want to hear both sides of the story before rushing to judgement. Now that you do know the actual facts, please assist us with disseminating the truth, and not hearsay, to others that may have received misinformation.



Thank you for your inquiry,





Joshua Adams

Executive Director
NRA Whittington Center

I spoked with Ken one of the directors in June. Talked about the fire danger. I asked If the weather changes, would the match start back up this year? He replied no, the WC has a new vision moving forward.

 

[V-Ref]

Sounds like the Executive Director has counted on the precision shooters to lay down on the issue and just go away.

Just to confirm...the email response above was from the current NRA Whittington Center Executive Director (Joshua Adams)?

 

[c ward]

No Kevin above spoke with Ken the program director .

If they counted on us going quietly they underestimated the make up of the shooters at that match and the precision rifle crowd in general .

 

[verdugo60]

The email response I posted was from current WC director Joshua Adams. He has not replied to my follow up email requesting actual details about fire danger, etc. He also didn't address the politics shift favoring hunters that I hinted at. Not that I expected him to, he seems to want us to buy his one liners and leave.

 

[c ward]

That is exactly what the are hoping for . Don't know if you know Hoser but he is a crew chief on the ANG C130s that do the fire fighting and he sent an email off listing point by point why the fire danger excuse was bullshit and signed it with his military address and got no response other than the generic form letter response that everyone else received .

The response you got was the 1st one that deviated , I think he was hoping for professional courtesy because he is retired NM state police .

Sorry misread the post above and thought he was asking about Kevin's post .

 

[JMGlasgow]

I and several other shooters here in Cheyenne had planned on shooting the match in the future. I'm disappointed in the NRA and the Whittington center for their obviously political decision to no longer hold the match at their facility.

 

[V-Ref]

Is it possible there are 9500 specific reasons that the shooters are not privy too in regards to that area being closed for shooting, but open for hunting. Or maybe it's only 4500 specific reasons, or maybe as little as 1500 specific reasons.

http://www.nrawc.org/wc-experience/hunts/guided-hunts/

 

[verdugo60]

That is exactly what the are hoping for . Don't know if you know Hoser but he is a crew chief on the ANG C130s that do the fire fighting and he sent an email off listing point by point why the fire danger excuse was bullshit and signed it with his military address and got no response other than the generic form letter response that everyone else received .

The response you got was the 1st one that deviated , I think he was hoping for professional courtesy because he is retired NM state police .

Sorry misread the post above and thought he was asking about Kevin's post .

There are plenty of FUDDS in LE too, especially the higher up in admin they get. Guys on the street don't mind good people owning guns and knowing how to use them.

 

[verdugo60]

Is it possible there are 9500 specific reasons that the shooters are not privy too in regards to that area being closed for shooting, but open for hunting. Or maybe it's only 4500 specific reasons, or maybe as little as 1500 specific reasons.

http://www.nrawc.org/wc-experience/hunts/guided-hunts/

Bingo

 

[c ward]

Except from day 1 they have hunted there and was not an issue because we shut the match down from Sept to Feb for hunting season . They hunted that land the whole 14 years we were there .

So now they are losing funding and the animals in the canyon will not be used to a human presence without hunting pressure any more .

 

[Greg Langelius *]

This is simple.

This year I finally allowed my NRA membership to expire because I was no longer physically able to compete in LR competition.

I've been watching this topic.

Looks like my ambivalence about renewing anyway has been resolved.

Once again, the competitive members are getting thoroughly screwed.

Fuck NRA! Wayne, you need to clean house before I renew again.

NRAWC is not being led to my satisfaction, and in another situation, I'd be paying your salary. Right now, I'm pretty happy that's not the case. Better yet, Wayne, it's time you retired, maybe even a few years overdue.

This is not the first time I've made this decision, but it's about the last.

Greg Langelius

 

[Diver160651]

Sadly, you might have to come to California to shoot a similar format.

If your interested do it before the biggest anti-gun nut and federal lawbreaker is elected.


Gavin Christopher Newsom (born October 10, 1967) is an American businessman and politician serving as the 49th and current Lieutenant Governor of California, elected in 2010. He previously served as Mayor of San Francisco. He is going to be the next mayor