Rifle Scopes More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopemount

#51
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

When it comes to the AR15 platform, how much cantilever do you think is needed?
I live in Sweden and AR are really scarce here, so I would need some help to get the AR15 mounts right.
Do anyone have any opions about the mounts lenght for AR.
The current mounts you see are all made to accept the PMll scopes, but I assume that mostly US shooters with AR are not going to mount PMll scopes on those.
So any opinions about length?

Håkan
 
#54
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

Why dont you just buy an upper reciever then you have something to go off of and can use that to help design the mount. The La Rue mounts are the current best for an AR
 
#55
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

Some firearms like Remington 700 and similar boltguns that have a tilted rail mounted there is no reason to have a complete base mounted.
But there is still a need of having interfaces for various assesories and haveing the level mounted in the rings.
So here is some rings that I am planning to make.
Those are 30mm and the ring height is CC 1".
The rear ring having two bubbles so it works equally well for both left and righthanded shooters.

Opinions?

img4ada138ddf740.jpg

Front ring having 3 interface surfaces, and rear having two.

img4ada137e63c5b.jpg

The rear ring having indexmarks for the scope, and the front ring having 3 interface surfaces for assesories.

Håkan
 
#57
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

Yes absolutely, I am working as hard as I can to have a fair line of scopemounts with me to Milipol i Paris in November that will be the first official place to show them

Håkan
 
#61
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

In a totally different configuration it's possible.
The problem is with the split in 10,30 and 4,30 instend of 9-3 o¨'clock there will be a collision betwen the ring and the clamp that holds the ring against the rail.
Of course the the clamp can be mounted on the other side, or the rings can be split 1,30 and 7,30.
But in such case a number of the interface surfaces on the left side (for a rigth handed shooter) will be lost.

Regards Håkan
 
#62
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

"The world of firearms are so slowly moving that John Brow(n)ing would have been highly dissapointed at us if he lived today..."

I have to agree with the hider that said he would be more stoked to see his designs still in use, BUT...

Hakan, I salute you sir. Not only are you are thinking outside the box, but you are questioning the design of the basic box, and that is exactly how John Browning made his mark.
 
#63
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ratbert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could you make a set of extra-low rings without the bubble level built in?

</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spuhr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In a totally different configuration it's possible.
The problem is with the split in 10,30 and 4,30 instend of 9-3 o¨'clock there will be a collision betwen the ring and the clamp that holds the ring against the rail.
Of course the the clamp can be mounted on the other side, or the rings can be split 1,30 and 7,30.
But in such case a number of the interface surfaces on the left side (for a rigth handed shooter) will be lost.

Regards Håkan</div></div>

Ah, Got ya. I probably won't pop for the bolt gun then (except perhaps for a dedicated base, should you happen to make one for whatever action I happen to be shopping for at the time) but a 1.25-1.3" AR base looks to be killer.
 
#64
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

Hi again
I have done a few scetches on lower mounts without levels.
Here is some sugesteions.

Those are for 30mm scopes and the CC height is 19mm (approx .750)

Håkan
img4adafa073195b.jpg

The device mounted on the rear ring is for mounting Angle cousie indicator (quick detachable)
img4adafa1c970e9.jpg
 
#66
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

Hi

I will have a small stand there.
Please drop in.
I will return with my stand number

Please have a look on my webpage before www.spuhr.com as you maybe have an interest for more products than this or having some interesting ideas you would like to have developed.

Håkan
 
#67
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

I haven't read all the comments, so mine may duplicate some of them:

* I like the low-profile ring concept and the line added to aid in setting the turrets.

* A bubble level is very useful, I use them on almost all of my rifles. But it is much less useful in the location you have it since it cannot be seen with the eye that is not looking through the scope. The bubble level on the cosine indicator is more useful than your bubble level because it can be seen with one eye while looking through the scope with the other. If it sticks out to the side and is attached to a scope ring, then you can make it only for left or right-handed shooters since your rings are asymmetric.

* Please offer your unitary mounts (base with rings) with 0, 20, 30 and 40 MOA cants. Many people on this forum already have 20 MOA canted Picatinny bases, so a flat mount (0 MOA) would be welcome.

* A canted unitary mount that can be well secured to a Sako TRG-42 would be very welcome too.

* Keeping the larger (56mm objective) scopes low on the rifle would be important to many people.

* Finally, to keep the cost of your mounts "low" ($300-400 USD would not be an attractive price), think about having them made in the US. There are many machine shops in the US (especially in the Phoenix, Arizona area) that now make parts for AR rifles that could fabricate your mounts in 7075-T6. I bet the cost would be substantially less than what it would be in Europe.
 
#68
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

Hi

Thanks a lot for your kind opinions.
The reasons for the bullble level built in instead of in a separate item is partly because lack of space on some scopes, and becuase of an unwanted bulk.
However if one can accept the added bulk and items protuding out from the scope/mount it's clear that a separate level will probably always be more visiable.
However the gun underneat with my scopemount that belongs to the first series of prototypes have the level centered under the scope.
It's my personal TRG 42 and I have not have any problems to see it with my left eye at all.
But it's my intention to make a separate bubble level produting out from the mount for those who can accept it.
img4abd0d5d64c23.jpg


The levels that is installed on later versions have the level very far to the left and thus making it far easyer to see with the left eye.
However if you are one eyed, I complete understand why you want to be able to see the level with your shooting eye.

This scopemount system is constructed (or at least that was my intention) as a system, where every user can pick out the features that fits him. My intention is to build out the system with loaads fo various assesories so mostly users can find the features that they want.

For rifles with an installed tilted rail, the separate rings is problably the best solution (or at least the lowest, as most users wants the scope to be mounted very low.
And Unitary mounts will always be far higher than separeate rings.

A main reason to machine things in Europe is that I have no problems in the future when selling mounts to wherever in the world. IF I had the production in the US, I would have a constant hard time with exportpermits and stuff.
However if someone in the US wants to obtain production licence for it, that is defintely something worth to consider.

Regards Håkan
 
#69
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

Hello Hakan how are you going? i am in Australia and Very interested in a set of your rings for a 34mm scope i am interested in the ACI mount aswell as the wever rail for illumination and laser attachment. i am wondering if you have a mounting plate made up to suit the Fire Point type red dots? i would be interested in a setup with that on it if you dont have a Fire Point or similar i could post you one with a mount so you could get the plate set up to work on the rings?
 
#70
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

I doubt that your scope mounts would be US export-controlled items requiring a license. The US manufacturer could simply ship them in bulk to you for non-US distribution, if that makes it easier to distribute.

Good luck!

PS I am not really one eyed, I chose the name because many people close one eye when they shoot and become "one eyed."
 
#71
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I doubt that your scope mounts would be US export-controlled items requiring a license. The US manufacturer could simply ship them in bulk to you for non-US distribution, if that makes it easier to distribute.

Good luck!

PS I am not really one eyed, I chose the name because many people close one eye when they shoot and become "one eyed." </div></div>

Sorry JAck they are controlled by export laws and if they are used by military or law enforcement it means they definatel come under the export restrictions, We are in Australia and it can be ahuge pain in the ass to get parts even some springs for firarms require an export permit. The USA is a pain to deel with in that regard and as he has his own manufacturing equiptment it would be silly to have another peoson make the parts he has already paid to setup for.
 
#72
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

Any gunparts above 100 dollars require exportpermit from the US.
You have fair gunlaws in the US, but your exportcontroll is very ridgid and it's probably easyer to deal with Russia than US.
Really feels like the US autoryities wanna kill as much of the US manufacturing as possible.
Even friendly governments have a terrible time buying US produced stuff to their lawenforcement and military.

Håkan
 
#75
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

One way you could really carve a niche in this market is to make custom order mounts too.

Instead of having four or five setups available, let the customer tell you what they need.

Example: I need a 1.2" high, 0 cant, no cantilever mount with 34mm rings and the level on the left side.

Also, any thoughts on doing a cam type quick release unit?
 
#76
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One way you could really carve a niche in this market is to make custom order mounts too.

Instead of having four or five setups available, let the customer tell you what they need.</div></div>

That would work if the customer would like to pay something like 1000 USD per mount. Otherwise it would just be a hobby.

Many gunsmiths can and do custom mounts if the customer wants to pay for them. Usually the price is so high that 90% of prospective customer end up buying something off-the-shelf for less than 100 USD.

I do not have anything against custom mounts. I had my gunsmith make me a picatinny base with integrated Lee-Enfield MkIII micrometer rear sight. The sight is there folded down allways under my 3-12 PMII DT. If the scope goes down I have iron sights on the rifle that are elevation adjustable out to 1200 meters. Battle sight-in is 300m. Windage is via TRG-42 front sight so these are not really target sight per se but BUIS to enable me to use the rifle without the scope.
 
#77
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

Here is the solution that I am machining on right now.
Ultra low but still with a bubble level, should be interesting to see if it works in real.

img4ae217dbe66be.jpg

The height is 4mm approx .114" betwen scope and rail.

img4ae217f8438c5.jpg

img4ae279aecb40f.jpg

With a smaller level It was possible.

Mostly scopes would problably not mount well in those rings as they problably are to low.
But for users of Smith u Bender with 42mm objektivs and high rails, this is probably a welcome solution.

Håkan
 
#78
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

Håkan it was great to chat with you the other day on the phone.
Its good to see some one else over on this side of the pond putting innovation into shooting gadgets.
I mentioned to you about the guy in Germany with a similar set of ideas. You come across to me as far far more talented and competent, and I can see that you have a much deeper knowledge and experience base to derive your ideas from. ( and you seem like a much nicer bloke to be honest )
There is absolutely a market for the kind of kit you are offering. It I wasn't so busy with my own other projects such as chassis systems, supressors, brakes and custom rifles, I'd be fiddling with scope mounts too, But one cannot do everything, so you just keep on and I for one am certainly interested in stocking your products and making them available through our much visited online store.

We will certainly have some space on our IWA 2010 stand if you are interested.
The absolute must, aside from quality at the right price is AVAILABILITY. the best product in the world will not sell if it has too long a waiting time for delivery.

I would advise you to get a couple of basic models sorted and start distributing, you can add models as you go. There are guys out there just waiting for this sort of mount to become available.

Hence I would suggest you go with 30mm and 34mm ring size to start with (more later)

<span style="font-weight: bold">1:</span> Picatinny compatible 1 piece mount designed for rifles such as the AR15, H&K 416 /MR223 Sig 550 etc etc. With the ability to mount a red dot sight as you already have. That is a plus. A bubble level and an angle cosine indicator. The mount height should be high enough to give the correct height for aiming, It needs to be high enough to ensure a 42mm objective will clear the flat top, ( even 50mm or 56 on a DMR weapon). that would mean a top of rail to bottom of scope tube height of at least 11mm to clear a 42mm Obj scope lense, plus the tube around it.
And around 17mm to make sure a 65mm Obj would clear ( I treid to mount a Prem heritage 5-25x56 on my H&K MR223 using our (ERA) 1 piece 15mm height mount. The Obj bell fouled , ever so slightly on the rifles top rail. another 2mm would give clearance enough. (bear in mind the mount is a 20MOA)
So I would make 2 versions ( 30mm and 34mm )if i where you but stick with the 17mm ish height or even a little higher, what is the height you have on the mount pictured on the H&K 417 ???
This high mount would also be ideal for sniper rifles that mount a night vision device, such as the NSV 80 or Sniperkite up front.


2. A mount designed for Sniper Rifles. 1 piece, picatinny compatible. It can be near enough the same as the mount above, but needs to be lower in mounting height. .

I would have the one piece mounts available in 0 MOA, 20MOA and 30MOA ( or dependig on your funding, storage capability etc, go for 10MOA steps from 0 up to 40MOA)

3. As you have shown, separate rings. I wouldn't bother putting any incline in the separate rings.

when deciding the height things to watch of course are the clearance of the Obj bell over the barrel, clearance of the magnification ring above any type of back up sight. Clearance of the scope above the front end of the picattiny rail, particularly if the rail is extended.

Ive a few other ideas. I dislike screws that go into the mount., i assume you are using wire thread inserts ? I much prefer the bolt that stocks out onto which a nut is tightened, but thats personal preference based on experience with mounts of probably lesser quality in which after a bit of use swapping scopes about, the mounting screws started to slip in the threaded holes.

Lets have another chat,, now get one and make some mounts and start distributing .. !!

regards Pete
 
#79
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

Thanks pete for your thoughts and ideas.

First I am currently focusing on having some various mounts ready (as well as various other gadges) ready for the Milipol fair, wich i think is the most important one.

The mount you have seen on the HK417 is 37mm CC height, 30 MOA tilt and 34mm rings.
That mount is very soon finnished for delivery in both 30 and 34mm.

Sako TRG 308 and 338 with 20 and 25 MOA tilt is also soon availibe for delivery.
Those have a CC 34mm heigth and comes so far only in 34mm.

Rings for 30 and 34mm will also soon be availible, and from 4mm height and upwards, without tilt.

I am also working on cantilever mounts for AR15 style guns in both 30 and 34mm.
But that will take somewhat longer time.

Apart from that I will make whatever mounts I get orders on, as long as more than ten mounts is ordered, ANYTHING can be made. Otherwise will the price be to expensive.

Regards Håkan
 
#81
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

The low non tilt rings are very interesting...may avoid or diminish the convenience or need of a cheek elevation system in the stock, as long as they also have the interfaces to put an ACI as the usual ACI mount will not fit betwen the scope and the rail.
 
#83
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

For ARs, a quality mount like a Larue or Bobro is already approaching $250. So $300 - $350 would not be a stretch for the added features of this mounting system. Granted, you lose the QD, but that is by and large not a big deal for the kind of scopes for which these mounts are intended.

As for cant on an AR platform, 20-30MOA is plenty.

If you make them, you will sell them. Very nice. Personally, I am looking forward to your cantilevered designs.
 
#85
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

Twenty MOA is fine for an AR platform. I don't recall ever having seen a scope which couldn't get a short-range zero - 100 yards or meters - from a 20 MOA base.

Thirty MOA might be too much for some scopes with limited range of adjustments. I suspect there's a reason why one of S&B's one-piece ring mounts had an inclination at 28 MOA rather than 30.
 
#86
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

Here is a technical update.
Here is the rings that has a CC height of 21mm (.850) for 34mm rings.
img4af74cca20217.jpg

img4af74cdb30a24.jpg


I have also been scetching on some cantilever solutions for AR rifles. Here is a mount that is 1,5" tall and have a 1,6" extension, quickly detachable bubble and mount for Trijicon RMR.
img4af74d38516e4.jpg


Here is another version with 4" extension.
img4af74d6c989e2.jpg


View of mount with topmounted Aimpoint for those who prefers that mounting.
img4af74cf299e6a.jpg


Opinions?

Håkan
 
#87
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

Håkan

img4af74d6c989e2.jpg


Your designs are excellent! I wish I had your products on my rifle already. Until then, I very much enjoy seeing your work. Do you need any testing done on your products?
wink.gif


Your 3D program, is this CATIA? ProEngineer? SolidWorks? I used to use SolidWorks and dabbled in CATIA. But that was back in the day when Al Gore first invented the internet.
grin.gif




 
#88
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

I am using Autodesk Inventor, but that is really nothing I can, as I only have worked in CAD for about a month or so, before that I always started directly in the Milling machine.

Håkan
 
#89
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spuhr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi

The Danish army have 5-25 S&B in Sako Mounts on their TRG42.
100% of the scopes are breaking down after 1100-1600 rounds.
I do heavaly suspekt the mounts as a reason and the fact that they have loosely fitted picatinny rails on the guns.

Håkan </div></div>

What Sako Mounts you refering to ? Is it sako 3 rings mounts?
 
#96
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

OK OK enough with the teasing already--- when will they be available and how much ramen will I have to eat cuz I definitely will have to get a pair.
 
#98
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

Those are the most innovative mounts & rings I have seen in the last 20 years , I think that their design and their quality'll worth the while to get a couple of them soon for T&E , I'll send you a PM .

Stay safe,
PP out
 
#100
Re: More ideas for an Ideal sniper/markmans scopem

Hi

Things have taken longer than I tought, on the other hand that is good as noboody wants to buy a poor product.
I have now started to ship out samples to various potential distributors and also for smaller orders.

So far the rings have been 30 and 34mm.
I really dislike inserts so most likely will there be made 1" as well and most likely 35mm.

Håkan
 
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