i say #10. > 90% of the deep state output in rules and regs are unconstitutional since most weren"t passed by congress. congress is the only constitutional way to pass laws. the current crop of executive orders are fascist to a degree that the founders could not foresee but guarded against anyway. but,i think most of congress over recent days has been good with that. their deep state masters get what they want and congress just doesn't look or can say "we didn't do that,not our fault". plus,most them are too lazy to do the job or too busy getting rich off their own corruption.
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most abused amendment of the bill of rights?
- Thread starter mosin46
- Start date
Think about this…
There were NO Police Departments until about 60 years after the US became a nation. Modern-style law enforcement didn’t exist before the turn of the 20th century.
The FBI didn’t come into existence until 125 years after the US became a nation.
The ATF didn’t come into existence until nearly 200 years after the Declaration of Independence.
We functioned just fine before federal, state, and local law enforcement existed, and we will function just fine after they no longer exist.
There were NO Police Departments until about 60 years after the US became a nation. Modern-style law enforcement didn’t exist before the turn of the 20th century.
The FBI didn’t come into existence until 125 years after the US became a nation.
The ATF didn’t come into existence until nearly 200 years after the Declaration of Independence.
We functioned just fine before federal, state, and local law enforcement existed, and we will function just fine after they no longer exist.
Three men were killed at the OK Corral, three were injured. It was a notorious shooting in the Old West. Movies have been made about it.
Seven men were murdered in the St Valentine's Day massacre in Chicago back in 1929. It was a notorious Mob shooting. Movies have been made about it.
In today's Chicago several dozen people are shot every week, and in many weeks more than ten people are murdered and dozens wounded. It's accepted as the way things are, and one movie, Chiraq, was made and no one watched it.
State and local law enforcement were created to protect criminals and innocents from mob justice and vigilantism. The police were initially abusive and disrespectful of peoples' rights, important reforms were made, and we hit the zenith of effective a decade ago. Then the Progressives/Marxists decided to attack law enforcement and weaken it to create a climate of lawlessness that would make people demand more government, and simultaneously attack the Second Amendment as an individual right so people couldn't defend themselves. Here we are today. We know how to solve the crime problem but the population has been propagandized to not believe it. So crime rages in our big cities.
Federal law enforcement was minor... federal marshals in non-state territories... until the early 1900s. The FBI was created to purportedly handle multi-state criminals like the gangsters of the Roaring '20s such as Dillinger, Al Capone, etc... but J Edgar Hoover turned it into a powerful political protector of the Establishment that supported and extorted politicians, e.g., capturing film and audio of JFK sleeping with Mob boss Sam Giancana's girlfriend, JFK and RFK sleeping with Marilyn Monroe, etc. We saw in 2016 how FBI Director James Comey sought to entrap Michael Flynn and then instigated a special prosecutor to harass Trump based upon the Steele dossier that the FBI knew was false... in effect attempting a coup. More of the same in 2020 when some 50 'intel' officials all told the American people that the Hunter Biden laptop, the one with evidence of The Big Guy's involvement in his family's bribery business, was Russian disinformation. You know, the exact same laptop the FBI verified and is now being used to prosecute Hunter for illegally purchasing a handgun as a user of Schedule 1 narcotics and lying about it on his 4473. Will they go after Joe now? They went after Trump for purportedly illegally possessing classified documents, but the DOJ gave Hillary a pass in 2016 and Joe as pass earlier this year. Like I said, protecting the Establishment.
And then there's the 2020 election and the controvery around ballot harvesting and mail-in ballots. We all saw what happened in Fulton County GA during the counting, and in PA, Minnesota, etc. Most of the lawsuits filed were dismissed not from lack of evidence but because of lack of standing... the courts refused to acknowledge that the plaintiffs had been directly harmed by voting irregularities. The Gore campaign could sue in Florida in 2000, but the Trump campaign could not sue in 2020... only Democrats have standing! Protecting the Establishment.
The problem is that government officials and elected politicians are ignoring their sworn duties and oaths of office... and the law... to enrich themselves, seize power, and sic the law enforcement power of the state on their political enemies while shielding their friends from the consequences of illegality. Our government can only survive if those in government abide by the law. With our modern culture of moral relativity and power is all, we're doomed.
Seven men were murdered in the St Valentine's Day massacre in Chicago back in 1929. It was a notorious Mob shooting. Movies have been made about it.
In today's Chicago several dozen people are shot every week, and in many weeks more than ten people are murdered and dozens wounded. It's accepted as the way things are, and one movie, Chiraq, was made and no one watched it.
State and local law enforcement were created to protect criminals and innocents from mob justice and vigilantism. The police were initially abusive and disrespectful of peoples' rights, important reforms were made, and we hit the zenith of effective a decade ago. Then the Progressives/Marxists decided to attack law enforcement and weaken it to create a climate of lawlessness that would make people demand more government, and simultaneously attack the Second Amendment as an individual right so people couldn't defend themselves. Here we are today. We know how to solve the crime problem but the population has been propagandized to not believe it. So crime rages in our big cities.
Federal law enforcement was minor... federal marshals in non-state territories... until the early 1900s. The FBI was created to purportedly handle multi-state criminals like the gangsters of the Roaring '20s such as Dillinger, Al Capone, etc... but J Edgar Hoover turned it into a powerful political protector of the Establishment that supported and extorted politicians, e.g., capturing film and audio of JFK sleeping with Mob boss Sam Giancana's girlfriend, JFK and RFK sleeping with Marilyn Monroe, etc. We saw in 2016 how FBI Director James Comey sought to entrap Michael Flynn and then instigated a special prosecutor to harass Trump based upon the Steele dossier that the FBI knew was false... in effect attempting a coup. More of the same in 2020 when some 50 'intel' officials all told the American people that the Hunter Biden laptop, the one with evidence of The Big Guy's involvement in his family's bribery business, was Russian disinformation. You know, the exact same laptop the FBI verified and is now being used to prosecute Hunter for illegally purchasing a handgun as a user of Schedule 1 narcotics and lying about it on his 4473. Will they go after Joe now? They went after Trump for purportedly illegally possessing classified documents, but the DOJ gave Hillary a pass in 2016 and Joe as pass earlier this year. Like I said, protecting the Establishment.
And then there's the 2020 election and the controvery around ballot harvesting and mail-in ballots. We all saw what happened in Fulton County GA during the counting, and in PA, Minnesota, etc. Most of the lawsuits filed were dismissed not from lack of evidence but because of lack of standing... the courts refused to acknowledge that the plaintiffs had been directly harmed by voting irregularities. The Gore campaign could sue in Florida in 2000, but the Trump campaign could not sue in 2020... only Democrats have standing! Protecting the Establishment.
The problem is that government officials and elected politicians are ignoring their sworn duties and oaths of office... and the law... to enrich themselves, seize power, and sic the law enforcement power of the state on their political enemies while shielding their friends from the consequences of illegality. Our government can only survive if those in government abide by the law. With our modern culture of moral relativity and power is all, we're doomed.
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We would function even better. Human society is very sharp when it comes to policing our own. No bullshit. No bureaucracy. If somebody does something really bad, then it is a matter of minutes to call up the posse from the armed townsmen. Otherwise, it is live and let live. Government is the sole reason why human technological innovations are held back. How are we going to have new rocket technology and skilled pilots when a kid flying a helicopter in the middle of the desert shooting fireworks from launchers he built himself onto the chopper's fuselage gets arrested and charged with a flurry of aviation and ordnance violations? In the early days of this country when it WAS live and let live, we saw 80-90% of the entire world's aviation, electronics, telecommunications, weapons, and spaceflight technology born on OUR soil, made by American innovators. Now a physics teacher probably cannot even demonstrate the computer controlled ignition of a static mounted miniature SRB booster motor made from one Pyrodex pellet in his classroom without facing a multitude of state and federal charges...
We need the police. One of the great societal advancements was the creation of law enforcement to eliminate the passion for vengeance from victims and outraged citizens who act from emotion. Lots of innocent people suffered at the hands of the enraged mob. We don't want to go back to that.
What we need is to keep the mean bastards, the bullies, out of law enforcement. We need people who respect others' rights, who understand that not everyone is a bad person, who are empowered and supported when they do have to deal with bad people, e g., Michael Brown, who arrest George Floyd but immediately call for medical assistance when he stops breathing. The police have a responsibility to mot use excessive force, and to protect the people in custody, and should be punished for gratituous violence... but must also be empowered to use the minimum necessary force to stop fleeing felons, up to and including deadly force if there is a reasonable threat to public safety from that felon based on committed crimes or present actions. And we need the public to support proper law enforcement, to agree to not resist police officers, to fight it out in the courts instead of the streets, to support severe sentencing including mandatory jail time for felony assault for assaulting a cop. We need moral tough people, not sadist or sociopaths.
What we need is to keep the mean bastards, the bullies, out of law enforcement. We need people who respect others' rights, who understand that not everyone is a bad person, who are empowered and supported when they do have to deal with bad people, e g., Michael Brown, who arrest George Floyd but immediately call for medical assistance when he stops breathing. The police have a responsibility to mot use excessive force, and to protect the people in custody, and should be punished for gratituous violence... but must also be empowered to use the minimum necessary force to stop fleeing felons, up to and including deadly force if there is a reasonable threat to public safety from that felon based on committed crimes or present actions. And we need the public to support proper law enforcement, to agree to not resist police officers, to fight it out in the courts instead of the streets, to support severe sentencing including mandatory jail time for felony assault for assaulting a cop. We need moral tough people, not sadist or sociopaths.
Bill of Rights you say...
I'd love to break each down with recent examples of how much water those rights seem to hold lately but I'm tired and for now I'll digress and instead just post the Bill of Rights as a refresher for those of our community that is a little foggy on the topic. Perhaps I'll revisit the discussion later to provide examples of each that might raise an eyebrow or two but for now-
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Second Amendment
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
Third Amendment
No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.
Fourth Amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Fifth Amendment
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Sixth Amendment
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
Seventh Amendment
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
Eighth Amendment
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Ninth Amendment
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Tenth Amendment
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
So that's where we started after the war for our independence concluded and was ratified by Congress on December 15, 1791. Kind of wild to me that I still to this day remember that date.
I don't care to look up/fact check myself but if I remember correctly the Bill of Rights was supposed to be 12 amendments as opposed to 10 (I can already hear George Carlin's stand up on how '10 sounds official') But if I recall correctly, I'm sure I'll be called out if I'm wrong- one of the amendments that didn't make the cut related to how communities outside of the cities were represented in Congress and the other was dealt with Congress not being able to give themselves pay raises. Please don't take that as doctrine/fact- just going off of memory in this regard and if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong and I'm ok with that.
Last thing I'll include- and I will copy & paste this one because some of us were required to memorize this speech in elementary school so I wanted to make sure I got this right but on November 19, 1863 (not even 100 years after the Bill of Rights became part of our national fabric) we had another controversial political that delivered a 2 minute speech that we're still talking about over 150 years later...
Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate—we can not consecrate—we can not hallow—this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
-Abraham Lincoln
I'll leave you with that because we talk about this over 150 years later, and this was delivered not even 100 years into our nation's history and if anyone has any reasonable understanding of US history and what transpired at Gettysburg, maybe that'll help temper our current angst with our political climate when put into perspective of what was being discussed/dealt with nationally 160+ years ago.
If anyone wants to point out errors in my recollection- feel free to. If anyone wants to start sharing recent examples of where the Bill of Rights didn't deliver as advertised- well please feel free to share those examples too.
-LD
I'd love to break each down with recent examples of how much water those rights seem to hold lately but I'm tired and for now I'll digress and instead just post the Bill of Rights as a refresher for those of our community that is a little foggy on the topic. Perhaps I'll revisit the discussion later to provide examples of each that might raise an eyebrow or two but for now-
Bill of Rights Amendments
First AmendmentCongress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Second Amendment
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
Third Amendment
No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.
Fourth Amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Fifth Amendment
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Sixth Amendment
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
Seventh Amendment
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
Eighth Amendment
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Ninth Amendment
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Tenth Amendment
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
So that's where we started after the war for our independence concluded and was ratified by Congress on December 15, 1791. Kind of wild to me that I still to this day remember that date.
I don't care to look up/fact check myself but if I remember correctly the Bill of Rights was supposed to be 12 amendments as opposed to 10 (I can already hear George Carlin's stand up on how '10 sounds official') But if I recall correctly, I'm sure I'll be called out if I'm wrong- one of the amendments that didn't make the cut related to how communities outside of the cities were represented in Congress and the other was dealt with Congress not being able to give themselves pay raises. Please don't take that as doctrine/fact- just going off of memory in this regard and if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong and I'm ok with that.
Last thing I'll include- and I will copy & paste this one because some of us were required to memorize this speech in elementary school so I wanted to make sure I got this right but on November 19, 1863 (not even 100 years after the Bill of Rights became part of our national fabric) we had another controversial political that delivered a 2 minute speech that we're still talking about over 150 years later...
Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate—we can not consecrate—we can not hallow—this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
-Abraham Lincoln
I'll leave you with that because we talk about this over 150 years later, and this was delivered not even 100 years into our nation's history and if anyone has any reasonable understanding of US history and what transpired at Gettysburg, maybe that'll help temper our current angst with our political climate when put into perspective of what was being discussed/dealt with nationally 160+ years ago.
If anyone wants to point out errors in my recollection- feel free to. If anyone wants to start sharing recent examples of where the Bill of Rights didn't deliver as advertised- well please feel free to share those examples too.
-LD
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