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Narcan doesn’t save lives
- Thread starter sirhrmechanic
- Start date
Happy Bitch ^^^^^
You are now invited to the mountain.
There was a talk a while back about this, basically they should just make “weak minded” a billing code for all of this, “addicted” all the way to fat people
No issue eating crap food for Super Bowl, or going to some party with whatever party favors, as long as you don’t let it run your life
Frankly the majority of the founding fathers did drugs illegal today, as have many of the ultra successful, the squares only inherit the earth in rectangles and no one remembers their names
No issue eating crap food for Super Bowl, or going to some party with whatever party favors, as long as you don’t let it run your life
Frankly the majority of the founding fathers did drugs illegal today, as have many of the ultra successful, the squares only inherit the earth in rectangles and no one remembers their names
However….7lbs of fat = 1 gal of diesel
With a old 300d could get across a state off her fat ass
One “bat wing” arm, 14lbs? 2gal, 30MPG that’s 60 miles!
The one next to her, man that’s like 2mo of driving
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That right there is why I always sit in the exit row on the plane.
@AngryKoala ....i dont know how to multi quote so i just added him
im not getting involved with you 2 going back and forth, but your argument has brought up a important topic no matter the opinion on overdose
as with every topic it becomes the exact definition of terminology
weather its abortion, womens rights to her body, self defense, etc (again i dont want to debate topics)
but especially for addict young or unborn children.. which was brought up
the consensus is usually, let the people who try drugs die as they shouldnt have done it to begin with
but..if the person who od's was a drug baby and lives a clean life up until a spiked drink and they OD should we save them?
that person is now a adult who was taken advantage of, and a stand up citizen (best case scenario for the example)
do they qualify "to be saved"
how do we know the decision at time of incident
who gets charged the $
if the person didnt want to get saved anyway, yet the EMT saves them, is the EMt now responsible
big brother has a data base?...big brother to save the day?
it brings the conversation into a full on shit show as can be imagined when you get more the a few people in a room for a while
as we all know once you get into the particulars, the decisions become real hot topics and almost impossible to answer which is why the govt finds it almost impossible to answer and fix certain issues
so instead the govt, pays for administering Narcan type products because that's the only path that will actually move forward and not get bogged down, although it saves many people who may not want to be saved, worth saving etc...it will save some good ones
on this site/thread alone there are probably more like minded people than in most decision making meetings and even here its a stalemate-no solution
i always wish for there to be a simplistic answer but there never is
EMS wise the safest action is always to make the save
Old guy is having a MI, his two daughters are there, one says he has a DNR, the other says no that’s not the case save him he’s dying, every provider I know is going to start working on grandpa
Also do we really want one of the few first responder type groups who ACTUALLY does what they claim to do, to start deciding if your life is worth saving?
That is pants on head retarded
agree 1000% save people then sort it out
flip side is, what if he is a known murderer or habitual overdoser who wants to die (again worst case scenario)
we now saved this guy who will be in jail for the remainder of his life, or who we will see again in 2 days...
no big deal as he is being punished as the law is written, and that is sufficient until the laws are changed..good or bad
but now we have to pay for it...out of our taxes.
the web of the conversation is just so vast and all encompassing...and the "regular people" are the ones who pay for it
crazy how that is but there is prob no other way in a modern society
We had a call once, young person was in prison, said head hurt, needed medical, couldn’t walk right, the prison guards were like he faking, didn’t call for EMS or even take him to the ED.
like a day plus later we get a call for a prisoner transport from the hospital, dude is toast, I mean the meat machine is still working but not recoverable, we do our job and transport him to a level 1
Guard comes with, because maybe the brain dead guy will spring to life and make a escape, anyway, one of the crew asks what the basically dead person was in for, the poor person got caught with weed, a fair deal of weed, but fucking weed
The person got a death sentence for weed, and not like a rifle round the the chest and out, or go to sleep with a injection, it was not a good death
Even if we look at it from a $$ stand point, would have been much cheaper to give him proper care, maybe just TPA, or surgery if it’s a bleed, vs us getting called in and who knows how long of a stay on life support with no good outcome possible, plus if the family has any sense the lawsuit
There was this one case in England not long ago where someone who was rather suicidal had been saved by the emergency services quite a few times.
So she went to court and got a court order saying they couldn't save her, then proceeded to go start killing herself or whatever, called the emergency services, when they showed up she handed them the paper and said well she just didn't want to be alone when she died.
I'm pretty sure the emergency services folks were like WTF you have to do that to us for?
Have any of you had to live next to an real deal addict family?
Have your stuff constantly get stolen, find toddlers playing in the street at 2AM while mom is nodded off. How about when your kids go to the bus stop in the morning and mom is giving blow jobs to the local drug dealer in the driveway. That's always a fun conversation... Maybe you like your kids playing in a neighborhood where they may find a used bag that had fentanyl in it or step on a syringe. I know we all want the cops in our neighborhood multiple times a week too. Creates a great paper trail of crime stats when you want to sell your house.
These people came from a good family, in a good neighborhood and had every resource available to get better. But they would OD multiple times a month, and I even had to call 911 to revive her after finding her passed out and looking pretty blue. Yes I called 911 instead of walking away despite all this other stuff going on. I think it may be easy to say that we should just let them die. But in real life, in the moment, it's just not that simple. For me anyway.
After the two users in the family OD'd for good within weeks of eachother, there hasn't been a single thing go missing, cops haven't been on our street since, no drug dealers, no toddlers in the street, no prostitution, fights ect.
It would be one thing if it only affected the end user, but it never does. The path of destruction from drug addiction reaches far and wide and will likely have ramifications on future generations. Much more so then someone's personal eating habits like mentioned above.
I dont have the answers, but I can agree with one of the previous posts about empathy vs sympathy.
Have your stuff constantly get stolen, find toddlers playing in the street at 2AM while mom is nodded off. How about when your kids go to the bus stop in the morning and mom is giving blow jobs to the local drug dealer in the driveway. That's always a fun conversation... Maybe you like your kids playing in a neighborhood where they may find a used bag that had fentanyl in it or step on a syringe. I know we all want the cops in our neighborhood multiple times a week too. Creates a great paper trail of crime stats when you want to sell your house.
These people came from a good family, in a good neighborhood and had every resource available to get better. But they would OD multiple times a month, and I even had to call 911 to revive her after finding her passed out and looking pretty blue. Yes I called 911 instead of walking away despite all this other stuff going on. I think it may be easy to say that we should just let them die. But in real life, in the moment, it's just not that simple. For me anyway.
After the two users in the family OD'd for good within weeks of eachother, there hasn't been a single thing go missing, cops haven't been on our street since, no drug dealers, no toddlers in the street, no prostitution, fights ect.
It would be one thing if it only affected the end user, but it never does. The path of destruction from drug addiction reaches far and wide and will likely have ramifications on future generations. Much more so then someone's personal eating habits like mentioned above.
I dont have the answers, but I can agree with one of the previous posts about empathy vs sympathy.
These statements combined are the exact reason I believe we need a system overhaul. Fuck putting people away for possession. Their body, their choice, right?? Empty the prisons of all the folks serving time for victimless crimes. Now, when dumb shit passed out and leaves lil Janie to play in the streets, that's a 3 year minimum sentence. DUI? Another 3 year sentence. We'd have the room to edu-muh-cate these douche canoes that pissing away their own life is sad but acceptable. Fucking up or endangering anyone else's life with your poor choices will not be tolerated.
We
3yrs for a DUI? Maybe if they actually hurt someone, or bend metal, but the DUI thing is a damn $$ industry
If there isn’t a clear victim, for any crime, I personally think it should only be a fine, like a ticket, or community service or something
3yrs for a DUI? Maybe if they actually hurt someone, or bend metal, but the DUI thing is a damn $$ industry
If there isn’t a clear victim, for any crime, I personally think it should only be a fine, like a ticket, or community service or something
I also think police should get ZERO money from the tickets the write, or anything their take from people, there should be no profit in policing
It's a very dangerous business to be in deciding "who is worthy to be saved". There's LOTS of people in this county who didn't do anything, but they were in a car accident and were a teenager. They were given lots of pain meds, that got them hooked on them. (This isn't my story, though I've done many more dumb things than most others I know, so it very well could be). These types of situations are extremely common, and I blame Dr feel good who got paid to push drugs , not the poor teenager. At some point in life, EVERYONE becomes responsible for their own situation, regardless of how that came to be, BUT , I badly need the grace of God and everyone else for that matter, so I'm very hesitant to speak in any absolutes when it comes to these types of things.
It was only to help emphasize the point that if we eliminate imprisonment for victimless crime that we would open up room for those that aren't willing to be cordial members of society. I personally feel that fines don't drive home the irresponsibility of actions that endanger others. I mean, is it fair that a single mom gets jail time for turning her back while cooking and her child gets burned while drunk uncle Johnny is getting written up for his eleventeenth DUI? He's put exponentially more people at risk than that mom. I just want the discussion to be had so that agreements can be made to right this ship before she capsizes.
Yes, one’s actions ACTUALLY hurt someone, the other persons actions didn’t
If you have ever played with one of those breath machines they have at some bars, .08 really isn’t drunk, I’d wager if you drink and have ever driven, you probably drove drunk a few times
Old small town I lived in, on night shift I would get off, drive home, passed the main drag, I probably was victim to 3-4 illegal stops, one was a good one..I was turning left of a yellow, cop pulls me over,
“Do you know why I’m pulling you over”
“No, and I am VERY interested to know”
“You turned on that yellow”
“Yes, and?”
“You need to yield”
“There were NO OTHER CARS”
“You need to yield”
And of course he illegally runs all my shit, asks how many drinks I have had, then fucks off
I would also read at least a couple times a week of some shitbird cop giving a dui to someone sleeping it off in their PARKED car.
It’s all so tiresome
Very valid point.
And no, I've never had a drink and driven. One drink and I won't drive for at least 4 hours. More drinks extends that time frame. My dad is an alcoholic and has done some stupid shit. I decided not to continue the legacy.
I personally feel that there should be greater consequences for DUI than a fine. True, no one was injured. What should happen to a person who decides to start popping off shots in a crowd if no one is injured? I'm so torn. I truly agree with you on a fundamental level. Nobody got hurt. Maybe it's just societal brainwashing and conditioning that makes me feel harsher towards those kinds of actions.
For me it’s intent and result
If when pulled over they said they drank first to get up the nerve to be able to crash into a music festival and kill as many as possible, yeah they get the jail
If it’s a little blonde who had one martini and is now a .081 who got pulled over for a expired tag, write a ticket and get someone to drive her home
I wonder if the whole self driving thing will ever actually become good enough and the laws changed so you can just get in your car drunk and tell it to drive you home while you crash out & that be perfectly legal.
It would sure piss of a lot of tax collectors with guns that love trying to up their numbers for more grants and such.
Of course, that would mean common sense since those king's men sometimes like to try to charge someone with drunk driving when they are asleep in their parked car. They go well, you could have started to drive, in that case, I'm like well you have a gun and a penis, you could have raped and murdered me so you should go to jail right now too...
Of course those MADD folks are insane puritanical assholes who were once calling for some teenage girl to be arrested for being around alcohol, because she simply showed up at a party to pick up her drunk friend and drive her home.
Personally I hate how all these bastards have convinced the public that the entire bill of rights doesn't apply if they say "alcohol"...
Much like how the police lie and walk up to a clearly sober driver and start saying "Sir I clearly smell the distinct overwhelming sent of alcohol" hoping the jury buys their bold face lie. Much like the "stop resisting" the police guy was yelling as he was handcuffing the limp guy they just shot in his bed without warning.
Two West Virginia Police Officers Saved By Off-Duty Nurse With NARCAN After Suspect Threw Drugs in Their Faces | The Gateway Pundit | by Cassandra MacDonald
Two West Virginia police officers were saved by an off-duty nurse carrying NARCAN after a suspect threw drugs in their faces on Tuesday evening.
www.thegatewaypundit.com
Two West Virginia Police Officers Saved By Off-Duty Nurse With NARCAN After Suspect Threw Drugs in Their Faces | The Gateway Pundit | by Cassandra MacDonald
Two West Virginia police officers were saved by an off-duty nurse carrying NARCAN after a suspect threw drugs in their faces on Tuesday evening.
Uhh, so the guy who threw the drugs didn’t need narcan?
Conversion disorder - Wikipedia
Interesting
So if even touching it will cause death, and addicts being less than cautious, selling it in that concentration would kill your client base and you wouldn’t be able to afford dubz for your ride and timberland boots… and why would he throw his expensive product in a cops face? So the cop not only stood around as he reached into his pockets, but had his fucking face so close the powder hit him with enough concentration to instantly OD him?
There are holes in that story I could fly my plane through
^^^^ This.
Come to me with your bleeding heart when you’re afraid to let your kids play outside because of all the junkies in the neighborhood. Or when you replace your own auto glass because those junkies break your windows on the regular looking for something to steal. How about when the neighborhood playground is covered with little orange needles and glassine bags and rival dealers turn it into a fuckin’ war zone? Or when owning a bicycle doesn’t make sense because it’s just going to get stolen?
How about when your junkie brother in law robs you blind, shoots up with used needles, gets a blood infection that causes a stroke and heart infection requiring a six week hospital stay and multiple surgeries at the better part of a million bucks? What about when he goes back to stealing and shooting up less than a year later?
If there’s a zombie apocalypse are you going to pour unlimited resources into maybe saving a small percentage of the affected at the risk of the rest of the population? Or do you cut your losses and keep the greater good in mind? Cause that’s what it was like growing up in the shadow of knickerbocker park as a kid. At the risk of sounding like a cold hearted asshole, life experience has made me 150,000% confident we’re better off cutting our losses.
Huh?
So your druggie brother didn’t effect me one bit
Frankly for what I’m abused in taxes, they should save everyone and bring my old pet hamster back to life too
The gov takes more of the fruits of MY LABOR than I am so humbly allowed to keep, if they can’t do some god like miracles they should get the fuck out of my pocketbook, until then I EXPECT ROI
They took my cash and I expect my goods
Now they could have stayed off my dick and said most of it is all on me, but nooo, they promised a long tail of BS, I paid in full, so I demand my promised land
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Sure he did. He walked away from a 3/4 million dollar hospital bill. That loss gets passed on to paying patients.
Think about that the next time you look at your hospital bill and see a $60 charge for an Ibuprofen.
Your tax dollars also pay for his welfare, the police that have arrested him 400 times, the prison he spent years in, all those meals he ate in there, his probation officers, parole officers and social workers, the homeless shelters he sleeps in, whoever picks up the garbage he tosses wherever the hell he pleases and whoever cleans his shit off the sidewalk.
Im sure I’m missing a few things there, but you get the point.
Oh! And his stimulus checks!
Can you guess where those tax dollars went? Not in his arm, cause those veins are fucked. Maybe between his toes?
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Been there done that and it doesn't change my opinion on wanting to make every effort to save an individual.
If you lived through that crap and still feel that way you must be a better man than I. I took a sharp 180 by middle school.
I don't have a problem saving every crackhead and tweaker, but dope fiends are an entirely different animal.
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Uhh, so the guy who threw the drugs didn’t need narcan?
Conversion disorder - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Interesting
1. It was probably in a baggie when he threw it and
2. Tolerance ...regular users for years can handle 20x or more what would kill a naive patient.
There in lies the dilemma we have treatment for opiate addiction but nothing for cocaine or methamphetamine so where do we put resources now?
Not better, just different. I felt the same as you until I took a neurobiology of drug addiction class in college and performed more in depth research on the topic.
Each individual has different levels of empathy and it doesn't make one individual better than the other. Just a different construct of the individual.
I'm not saying endless resources should be spent either. It's like the abortion topic, there is a fine line that needs debated.
Who determines how much is enough? Obviously, politicians...and we all know their track record for solving problems.
Am I at liberty to take an ideological approach to this question?
If so, you make use of your resources however you’d like. I’d prefer my resources aren’t used to resuscitate and provide long term care to the underbelly of society that has an undeniable track record of causing tremendous physical and economic harm to our society.
I've made it a point to disassociate myself with this demographic, so my only recourse is to default back to said brother-in-law.
1. $750,000 in defaulted medical bills.
2. Approximately $50k per year for six years for his prison time.
3. Whatever you billed for the methadone he sold for dope.
4. Whatever his public defender bills out for his legal representation.
5. Whatever he had to steal to support a two bundle a day habit at $70 ea. plus his miscellaneous living expenses. We'll round that to $50k/yr.
6. All other incidental and miscellaneous costs associated with cleaning up the wake of destruction.
At 33 years old we're well into the millions of dollars for a single individual. I can think of countless ways to better make use of those resources.
I suppose that begs the question... what's the value of a human life? Well, I suppose it depends on the individual.
Well it was the politicians in my area that deregulated Narcan, thus making it available. For once, a decision I agree with.
It’s been my experience that it is absolutely impossible to predict which addict (given a second chance) will go on to make something of themselves.
The experience of those I personally know (both addicts and medical professionals) it's about ten percent.
Just like the covid vacc mandates which took jobs and have torn families apart due to the weakness and apathy of comfortable western whiners. Consequences are a thing.
Alabama school district in the process of putting Narcan in schools
As we are seeing fentanyl in more and more places, school districts are taking precautions, by keeping the drug that can treat an opioid overdose on hand at their schools.
whnt.com
Over the weekend we had 5 OD and 2 deaths due to someone smuggling fentanyl into the facility.
It’s easy to be callous when you’re not face to face with it. Each of those people have worth, no matter how Fd up they are.
Just a vent. Going to be a bad week here.
It’s easy to be callous when you’re not face to face with it. Each of those people have worth, no matter how Fd up they are.
Just a vent. Going to be a bad week here.
It's also apparently being smuggled and made to look like candy. Bought my kids Halloween candy this year.
Sorry for your losses.
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