Yeah, I’m also a fan of having a 12 o clock RDS. And, while I do have a couple of scopes with “tactical” turrets, I’m not a fan of them. That said, unlike a LPVO, we’re still looking at something like a 40-44mm objective in a MPVO. This is going to necessitate a “diving board” or some sort of riser for the RDS, to get it above the outer diameter of the objective. Right, we haven’t totally sacrificed light transmission for compactness, have we? Anyway, turrets that are not taller than (or only minimally taller than) the objective bell could be in their “normal location” but not occlude a forward mounted RDS. And, push-to-lock caps would allow for more purchase while dialing, while retaining a lock feature and sleek lines.
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New 2024 MPVO Options
- Thread starter Tictacticaltimmy
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I have this one, and am currently looking to replace it. Mine is illuminated TMR with MOA knobs
I can live with mil/moa. I can live with fixed parallax. I actually prefer SFP in this magnification range (want speed at 2x)
What I can’t live with are the knobs. I’m finding that the three tiny set screws just can’t securely hold that erector stem without slipping. Or I guess it’s possible I have a broken scope. Design flaws and QC issues are still welcomed guests at Leupold
At this point I’m holding out for ZCO, although if March would just make their SFP 1.5-15x42mm subtend at 15x (instead of 10x) I’d be a buyer for sure.
Just now seeing this post, but...yup.Thanks for your brain lard on this gentlemen.
I agree, that we are close in most points.
So I come up with this, which I will send to them:
- min 2.5X or less, max 10x or more
- FFP
- adjustable parallax
- simple tree reticle (not to overloaded)
- at low and high end magnification useful (bold/visible at lowest)
- hashmarks with 0.5 MIL increments (enough for MPVO)
- on the horizontal about 5 MIL of hashmarks on each side
- vertical hasmarks 10 MIL
- decent eyebox
- decent FOV
- decent glass
- good turrets, intuitive, locking, zero stop, rev counter, readable numbers
- low turrets for overview and piggyback dot
- turrets 0.1 MIL increments
- windage turret capped
- below 26 oz.
- below 12 inches
- illuminated (no need for daylight bright, because of the piggyback Red Dot)
Have a great one!
*FFPHey,
I´m in contact with a premium scope manufacturer.
I would use blue ridge´s list to send it to them, but want it to be completed.
- min 2.5X or less, max 10x or more
- FFP
- useful BDC reticle at low and high end magnification (not to overloaded)
- decent eyebox
- decent FOV
- decent glass
- MIL/MIL 0.1 or 0.2
- good turrets, intuitive, locking, zero stop, rev counter, readable numbers
- low turrets vor overiew and piggyback dot
- below 26 oz.
- below 12 inches
- illuminated
- adj parallax
Did I miss something?
*Mil/mil
*.2 mil wind marks (.5 would be ok though)
*Offer tree and non tree version
*2.5x on low end (make it thick enough!) as said above this is where 99%miss the mark. But not too big like Athlon helos BTT G2. That center is way too big. Also, Be nice to add a donut like Bushnell LRHS G2H reticle.
*12x-15x on high end
*Illuminated (Not push button) center portion only like maven rs1.2 2.5-15
*Must have a zero stop Bushnell forge type, tool-less would be nice
*capped or locking windage
* forgiving eyebox
* make it have a decent fov. No one wants to look through a straw.
* locking elevation I could go either way on. Don’t really care
* Please do not make the turrets tall where you need a fucking step ladder to turn it. It ruins the whole optic imo.
*10 mil rev turrets, big numbers for the boomers, I’m sure they’d appreciate that.
*Weight below 27oz
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Just tossing out ideas. How about some out of the box thinking.
A while back in whatever MPVO thread it was I also suggested exterior adjust on the scope. One benefit is this scope would always be optically centered which I'd think should aid the image quality. I'm assuming this is why my March Genesis 4-40 is so clear even though it's a 10 mag ratio whereas my March 5-42 got dim-ish and blurry-ish by 35x and actually pretty bad at 42x, like cheap scope bad. Oddly this same 5-42 was awesome at 15X and under but so is my Genesis. Why March thought the 10x mag ratio on a ELR scope would be desirable is beyond me but I can imagine really really awesome image quality with a 6x mag ratio in this scope, "especially below 15x".
My March Genesis is a heavy scope and the mount is heavy too. A external adjust MPVO must of course be the opposite and I'm sure can be designed to be very lightweight and still be strong like for example the many higher quality aluminum rings and mounts we see. Again no need for tons of elevation on a MPVO.
A while back in whatever MPVO thread it was I also suggested exterior adjust on the scope. One benefit is this scope would always be optically centered which I'd think should aid the image quality. I'm assuming this is why my March Genesis 4-40 is so clear even though it's a 10 mag ratio whereas my March 5-42 got dim-ish and blurry-ish by 35x and actually pretty bad at 42x, like cheap scope bad. Oddly this same 5-42 was awesome at 15X and under but so is my Genesis. Why March thought the 10x mag ratio on a ELR scope would be desirable is beyond me but I can imagine really really awesome image quality with a 6x mag ratio in this scope, "especially below 15x".
My March Genesis is a heavy scope and the mount is heavy too. A external adjust MPVO must of course be the opposite and I'm sure can be designed to be very lightweight and still be strong like for example the many higher quality aluminum rings and mounts we see. Again no need for tons of elevation on a MPVO.
For more detail on turrets, this type of scope needs low profile turrets on both windage and elevation to play well with secondary red dot sights. The elevation turret needs to be as short as practical so a piggyback red dot doesn't have insane height over bore and doesn't need a spacer. Conversely a low profile capped windage turret allows for a 35 degree offset red dot instead of a 45 degree to clear it, which makes a huge difference on the rifle's footprint and ease of use if one chooses offset over top mount. This is one thing the Burris XTRIIIi got right as far as the windage turret goes.
Deny. That’s a false rumor that’s been kicking around for a couple years.
I need a scope in the next week or two. Been trying to hold off and wait for something better to come along, but seriously leaning towards another nxs 2.5-10x42. Checks the most boxes while filling the roll of a hunting scope.
Exact same situation here. Hard to believe I’ve been doing this for 20 years and the industry still doesn’t make the gear that fits
I ran that same NXS for hunting years back. It works. Sorta. The reticle is hard to find sometimes without turning on the lume, but it works. And FOV ain’t spectacular, but whatever. Can’t believe I sold it and now I may buy another one.
Nonetheless, I may try and hold out for some actual user pics of that 2-12x42mm HX6i Steiner with the STR-Mil reticle. I’m hopeful there’s a small chance illumination on that tiny center section could look like a red dot at 2x
That's my thought on the nxs. The things it does good, make up for the short comings. It's just a well all around scope. Mine has been dead nuts reliable as well so that's helps. Had to rezero the turrets once when I switched from hornady brass to lapua brass, buy that's it.
I liked my NX8 2.5-20 until a certain elk hunt in the timber and I had to use illumination to see the reticle. I realized then that I didn't want to depend on a battery and piece of electronics to succeed.
So the next scope I buy will have to to have a usable reticle at low power.
I wanted to try the Mark 4hd, but just can't bring myself to buy one.
I liked my NX8 2.5-20 until a certain elk hunt in the timber and I had to use illumination to see the reticle. I realized then that I didn't want to depend on a battery and piece of electronics to succeed.
So the next scope I buy will have to to have a usable reticle at low power.
I wanted to try the Mark 4hd, but just can't bring myself to buy one.
The consensus is the 10x erector creates lots of optical compromises. As in; optical quality is quite mediocre for the 3k price tag
Also read a review over on Rokslide about one breaking at 400 rounds
Hey,
I´m in contact with a premium scope manufacturer.
I would use blue ridge´s list to send it to them, but want it to be completed.
- min 2.5X or less, max 10x or more
- FFP
- useful BDC reticle at low and high end magnification (not to overloaded)
- decent eyebox
- decent FOV
- decent glass
- MIL/MIL 0.1 or 0.2
- good turrets, intuitive, locking, zero stop, rev counter, readable numbers
- low turrets vor overiew and piggyback dot
- below 26 oz.
- below 12 inches
- illuminated
- adj parallax
Did I miss something?
Just tell them to copy the Helos but don’t put a meatball in the middle of the reticle and contract LOW to produce it instead of Chyna.
They’ve got sweat shops cranking those things out and they can’t keep them in stock.
Yip. I've been attempting to do what you doing for about 2 years now.Thanks for the infos guys, will stay away by faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar.
Though am still having the issue to be unable to buy the scope that I want, because it doesn´t exist.
Unfortunately, unless you commit to 10,000 units over 5 years you aren't going to get your own design made, and even if you did commit to that LOW (and others) have dozens of other customers they aren't going to put on the back burner just for your one project.
Even trying to make modifications to an existing OEM design is extremely difficult.
Well then, good to know who´s guilty at least.
You must attempt harder!
Sorry, sarcasm.
I'm mentioning this because I want others to understand a viewpoint of what I've experienced with my Helos G2 2-12x42 DMR.
Okay to like what you like but for perspective's sake that meatball is basically 1"/1moa in size at 100Y. The center dot specifically but also the rest reticle being designed for medium to larger targets, quick acquisition, and also being seen in less than ideal backgrounds, is almost ideal. FFP and MPVO must allow the reticle to be this way in whatever form of reticle anyone comes up with.
Edit to restructure; The center dot is about as small as a squirrels eye at 25Y and as small as a rabbits eye at 50Y, the width of a pairie dogs chest at 200Y, is 3 times smaller than the heart and 8 times smaller than a lung shot on medium to large game at 100Y, and by 400Y the size of an elks heart, at 1000Y the size of the lung area of an elk.
I've shot lots of different steel with that meatball without problem. I have a Helos G2 2-12 on a 6mmFatRat AR and a Midas TAC 5-25 on a Mausingfield 6mmBR precision bolt rifle. The 6mmBR has a small advantage as distance increases on small to medium steel, like past 600Y, and not by much because by that point the problem becomes figuring out the wind holds and the .2 mil hashes in the APRS6 reticle helps with that. At 1143Y, because the HG2 is on a precise semi allowing quick follow up shots, it's about even on a larger steel I shoot at, especially if the wind is trickier. Depends on the conditions present.
If say this scope was a 2.2x-13.2x I could go with a .2 mil dot only because of 13.2x but .3 mil works fine for 12x and 2x, well it's almost too small at 2x but the circle of death helps to find it.
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For reticle design, this is why I’ve really been wanting a PMII-style tiny floating + crosshair in the middle of whatever else is going on.
It’s big enough to see on low power, especially if illuminated on low light, and a small enough aiming point on high power.
I like tree reticles that at least give you at least 12 mils of stadia elevation.
I kinda like wind speed dot holds with the GRSC 10” circles graduated for each range.
I haven’t seen a reticle more intuitive than that for wind and BDC ranging. 10” between every hash as well at the specific range.
It’s so easy to place the correct circle on a steel target and fit that 10” circle within or on the plate/sil, then break the shot and connect without much effort.
But I also like having mil references for building reticle charts or holding mils.
It’s big enough to see on low power, especially if illuminated on low light, and a small enough aiming point on high power.
I like tree reticles that at least give you at least 12 mils of stadia elevation.
I kinda like wind speed dot holds with the GRSC 10” circles graduated for each range.
I haven’t seen a reticle more intuitive than that for wind and BDC ranging. 10” between every hash as well at the specific range.
It’s so easy to place the correct circle on a steel target and fit that 10” circle within or on the plate/sil, then break the shot and connect without much effort.
But I also like having mil references for building reticle charts or holding mils.
It's an on going project, but I'm increasingly unsure it'll ever get off the ground.Well then, good to know who´s guilty at least.
You must attempt harder!
Sorry, sarcasm.
Turns out there's a good reason why the majority of companies are just selling the same LOW/JOL scopes with different reticles, turrets and logo.
The Mil-R is a nice hunting reticle. Pretty clean with 5mil hold offs and 10 to 15mil of hold over. The stadia outside the hashmarks are thick enough to see at low power. I threw a atacr 4-16x42 on my elk rifle and love the scope, but going from 4x to 16x the scope cap interferes with the bolt. So it's kind of a PITA, but I get this thread isn't about hunting scopes even if there is a good crossover market in place.
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