Nice, the 6ARC showing its 6PPC lineage. This is what I expect out of this cartridge! Nice shooting @Dino11 and great work on that barrel Odin.
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New 6mm Advanced Rifle Cartridge
- Thread starter Gtscotty
- Start date
Nice, the 6ARC showing its 6PPC lineage. This is what I expect out of this cartridge! Nice shooting @Dino11 and great work on that barrel Odin.
@Dino11 , what weight of buffer are you running? Adjustable gas block? If so how much gas does it need? Is it under or over gassed, or just right? I've got the same 18" barrel. I finally got an xl gas tube from JSE, the one odin sent out is still sitting in Idaho post office (odin forgot to include it in original order). I assembled the barrel into an upper today but it's raining here and too many errands on list to get to range this weekend. Great shooting on those groups, now I'm pumped to get mine out to see how it does.
I did idiot, that is why I ended up calling all of the companies that made the dies. Hornady dies were sizing smaller than all of the other FL sets and Redding wasn't sizing the brass small enough. Reading comprehension 101 there Dan.
You’re expecting 1/3 moa from a gas gun with factory ammo? If that’s a legit result, Hornady and Odin have a good thing going. Most ppl have trouble getting half moa groups with a gas gun and handloads, so forgive my skepticism.
I read it as he expects good accuracy out of a cartridge based on the PPC, not that he expects 1/3 MOA or better all the time from every rifle and ammunition combination, which is obviously unlikely.
I just got an invoice/shipping notice from Brownells that the Faxon 20" barrel I ordered right out the gate (June 2) is supposed to ship tomorrow. It will probably take me some time to get my 6mm ARC upper built, but its good to see at least one necessary part is rolling in.
No doubt that a 6PPC lineage cartridge should be able to offer precision of that level, although precision will be driven by the 'weakest link' in the system: shooter, rifle, cartridge, with shooter being the biggest variable. This is especially true at a distance like 300yds, where MV variation isn't going to be a major factor in the vertical dispersion. Also the 300yd difference between 1/3 moa and 1/2 moa is only about 0.5" and I would say we don't have enough info to say if this is a 1/3 moa or 1/2 moa 'system'. I would say we do have enough to say its 'nicely under 1 moa', which is what I would want.
My 6.5 Grendel, another 6PPC lineage cartridge, with handloads and a barrel from Satern, could print these types of groups at 300, when the nut behind the gun was up to it (which wasn't often).
If it was fired at 300yds and not 100yds, I would agree.
Something just seems off for this to be 300yds with the factory 105’s. Maybe jamming them into the lands several thou lead to better than anticipated precision, but to have so many rds (6 based on the other targets) go into the same hole at 300yds, with an AR, with factory ammo and a Viper HST scope just seems a bit hard to believe.
Those 6 shots are what, <.1moa? Just doesn’t pass the smell test.
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I’m going to ask a stupid question, as I really don’t know.
Say you want to run a LMT rifle length upper and have a barrel done in 6mm ARC for that upper. Say you have a SS .204 ruger or 556 barrel you are willing to use to rob the barrel extension and gas block off of.
Will that barrel extension work with the 6mm ARC or 6.5 Grendel bolt or do the 2 have a proprietary barrel extension?
Say you want to run a LMT rifle length upper and have a barrel done in 6mm ARC for that upper. Say you have a SS .204 ruger or 556 barrel you are willing to use to rob the barrel extension and gas block off of.
Will that barrel extension work with the 6mm ARC or 6.5 Grendel bolt or do the 2 have a proprietary barrel extension?
Did White Oak start making 6mm ARC barrels? Hollinger posted a statement that he would not be making 6mm ARC barrels, he doesn't like the Grendel bolt.
What are you guys seeing for prices for 6mm arc? It seems it can range from about $1 a shot to $1.50 depending on where you look (ELD rounds).
I purchased some awhile back, 200 rounds for $197.00 shipped. But would never order from the folks again. They lost the shipment and wanted to refund my money. I told them that the shipment was not lost it never left the warehouse. I get E-mail notices any time something is shipped to my address, or company name. They finally owned up to it. They basically sold me something they did not have. I told them I was going to file a suit with the Attorney General, they found my ammo pretty quick after that and shipped it to me 2 day. But it did not come from their warehouse.
Thanks for the heads up. Have been looking all over for that cartridge. Appreciate it.
Ammo Supply Warehouse, It wouldn't have been to bad a deal except they said it was in stock, immediately took my funds, then lied to me about it for about a week. I did not tell them in the beginning that I had a business account with UPS and get notices on all shipments.
I've got 200 rounds on back order from Midwest. I got an email that 40 rounds of the 105 Hornady Blk ammo was in, but I've not heard anything about the 108 ELD match.
And GAP is QUICK to ship. I ordered three boxes early this week, it arrived today. The quickest turn around for an order I've seen in a long time.
likewise, ordered Monday late afternoon, fedex just dropped off this afternoon...SGammo has 108 match in stock fyi, $25/box
20 Round Box - 6 mm ARC 108 Grain ELD Match Hornady Ammo - 81608 | SGAmmo.com
20 Round Box of 6 mm ARC 108 Grain ELD Match Hornady Ammo For SaleSKU # 81608Muzzle Velocity: 2750 (fps) ( 24" BBL)
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Velocity with factory ammo at the bottom in different barre lengths. Go fire up 4DOF on Hornady’s website and plug in the two cartridges and compare. Also, remember, drop doesn’t really matter if you have ballistic tables accurate for your conditions and can run your scope. It’s windage that you really care about.
I'm hoping patience will be a virtue with this cartridge. I skipped the barrel & ammo ordering bandwagon the first week of June and ordered my 7th X-Caliber barrel, due around October 1, and with Hornady's bullet problems lately I'm hoping that waiting until my barrel is shipped before I order ammo will be the right choice. Happy to see it's shooting well for early adopters though.
More like 2525-2550 with the 16" ARC.
I get the 6 ARC trajectory overtaking the 73 ELD @2700 at ~600yd for elevation. It's basically identical up to that point, with considerably less wind drift past 300yd, and a lot more energy throughout, and supersonic range that's 200+yd further.
In fairness, I don't think the 73 ELD load will still be going 2700fps in a 16" barrel. The box says 2790 from a 24" barrel, probably closer to 2600-2650 in a 16", which would open the gap considerably. Unless you want to go hand load for hand load, but there are better 6mm pills to work with.
I don't mean anything about exceeding 52ksi. In an AR-15 it's asking for broken lugs. I mean shooting different bullets. Match bullet weight and barrel length and the 6 ARC is going to be faster. Match the .223's BC and barrel length and the ARC is going to have ~20% more bullet mass and likely slightly more velocity.
Still not what I'm talking about. No magic, nothing over 52ksi. No mythical velocities.
1. 223 at 73gr. Match bullet mass with the 6 ARC at say a 75gr Vmax, and the ARC will be considerably faster than the .223 in the same barrel length.
2. 73gr .223 ELDM is a BC just shy of .400. Match that with an 87gr Vmax or 90gr ELD-X in 6mm, or do a bit better with the 95gr SMK, and you're looking at similar speeds with the ARC running ~20% more mass.
3. High BC end of loadings for the ARC you're looking at the 105-110gr class which trump the .223's BC, but lag in velocity a bit.
Main point is that option 1 and 2 are going to be flatter than .223 if a flat trajectory is what you're concerned about. Option 3 is going to have less wind drift, and win out for trajectory in the long run. All three have more energy throughout the useful trajectory.
At any rate, it's no real surprise to me that within 500yd two rifle cartridges have very similar trajectories. It's why generic BDC reticles usually work out okay for 100-400 especially, and often out to 600.
1. 223 at 73gr. Match bullet mass with the 6 ARC at say a 75gr Vmax, and the ARC will be considerably faster than the .223 in the same barrel length.
2. 73gr .223 ELDM is a BC just shy of .400. Match that with an 87gr Vmax or 90gr ELD-X in 6mm, or do a bit better with the 95gr SMK, and you're looking at similar speeds with the ARC running ~20% more mass.
3. High BC end of loadings for the ARC you're looking at the 105-110gr class which trump the .223's BC, but lag in velocity a bit.
Main point is that option 1 and 2 are going to be flatter than .223 if a flat trajectory is what you're concerned about. Option 3 is going to have less wind drift, and win out for trajectory in the long run. All three have more energy throughout the useful trajectory.
At any rate, it's no real surprise to me that within 500yd two rifle cartridges have very similar trajectories. It's why generic BDC reticles usually work out okay for 100-400 especially, and often out to 600.
Lab radar with factory 108 to follow (next week at the earliest)
Personally I don't get the short barrel thing using a cartridge like this when most everyone already has their 223's, 6.5G's, 6.8's, 300BO, etc. For all except the 300BO, 500Y is pretty easy, but when getting out to 600Y and beyond, out to whatever farther distance, this is where the extra BC and speed of the 6mm is helping out.
18" minimum and enjoy less wind drift farther out, also decent energy. That's where these 6mm's shine.
The other thing I noticed in my FatRat is the 95's recoil feels more like a 223, and 105's felt heavy-ish in comparison. I really like those 95's!
It might be that the 90gr TGK would be a great bullet for 6mmARC. I think it starts out at .490G1BC, it sheds velocity quickly but would be great for 6mmARC inside 800Y or so.
18" minimum and enjoy less wind drift farther out, also decent energy. That's where these 6mm's shine.
The other thing I noticed in my FatRat is the 95's recoil feels more like a 223, and 105's felt heavy-ish in comparison. I really like those 95's!
It might be that the 90gr TGK would be a great bullet for 6mmARC. I think it starts out at .490G1BC, it sheds velocity quickly but would be great for 6mmARC inside 800Y or so.
I think that's a pretty hard stretch to claim the 73gr ELD 5.56 trajectory is similar. Are you completely ignoring wind drift as well?
I shoot the 73gr as well from my 16" AR, and it doesn't match up at all to the 6mm. Granted mine is the 243 LBC but effectively the same thing as the ARC.
Your 73 ELD @ 2700 load is about right for a 20" barrel. In my 19" 243 LBC, the 105gr BTHP does 2750. It starts off faster, has much higher b.c., and more mass. That results in flatter trajectory, less drift, and more power at all ranges; they really aren't similar. If you want to drop the 6mm bullet weight down to a 90gr, I'm seeing 3,000-3,100 fps with that 19" barrel; again way faster than the 73gr and still higher b.c.
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