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Night Vision New Armasight Units (Sidekick and Jockey 640s)
- Thread starter wigwamitus
- Start date
Why not just attach a dove tail to the mini-rail. That's what most people do AFAIK.
www.modarmory.com
MOD Armory D14 Dovetail Adapter for Integrated Components Night Vision Helmet Mount D-14 Dual PVS-14 Mounting System™ - MOD Armory
MOD Armory D14 Dovetail Adapter for D-14 Dual PVS-14 Mount allows for QD function of dual PVS-14 mounting bridge for Flir Breach PTQ136, & other devices.
www.modarmory.com
I like dovetails, but there are a number of (newer, lighter) bridges that work with minirails, like the Rayven so ponder other ways to get there as well.
Yep, his video did not look very representative of what I believe that unit will look like through the lens. Additionally, I suspect some adjustments to the Gain etc would produce a much better image than what was presented.
Here's one that I took through the unit I received today. The image looks a tiny bit better than this photo, but I suspect most people aren't really adjusting their settings for the best image.
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That's definitely the easier solution, but it depends how tall the optical axis sits already with the mini-rail.Why not just attach a dove tail to the mini-rail. That's what most people do AFAIK.
MOD Armory D14 Dovetail Adapter for Integrated Components Night Vision Helmet Mount D-14 Dual PVS-14 Mounting System™ - MOD Armory
MOD Armory D14 Dovetail Adapter for D-14 Dual PVS-14 Mount allows for QD function of dual PVS-14 mounting bridge for Flir Breach PTQ136, & other devices.
For helmet-mounting only, the mini-rail is good enough. If clip-on use comes into play, the dovetail opens up additional options.
There was talk earlier in the thread that the Sidekick was also recoil-rated, has that been confirmed or is this strictly a helmet-mounted unit?
This is a video of a captured video so I suspect you are loosing a lot.
Update: the unit is sensitive to humidity. Once the clouds cleared up a bit, the image GREATLY improved and was realistic/depth perceiving. Humidity was still 81% without any sun that day and winter mix (snow, rain, and cloud cover).
The base settings arent adequate to get a good and contrasty image, but I was able to modify them to get a great picture (I'll post the settings up when I make it home).
Best color pallets are Sepia and Target mode in my experience. Black hot takes away a lot of contrast for reference, but target mode is the black hot base with a red overlay; it works really well. The red overlay isn't too imposing, and is quite sensitive. As a litmus test, I looked at a light 300 yards away to see if I got a hit (that fixture is always hot) and right away it detected it. It's about 1/4th the size of a yote....so that shows promise.
Again, here's a pic with my modified settings in Target mode.
The base settings arent adequate to get a good and contrasty image, but I was able to modify them to get a great picture (I'll post the settings up when I make it home).
Best color pallets are Sepia and Target mode in my experience. Black hot takes away a lot of contrast for reference, but target mode is the black hot base with a red overlay; it works really well. The red overlay isn't too imposing, and is quite sensitive. As a litmus test, I looked at a light 300 yards away to see if I got a hit (that fixture is always hot) and right away it detected it. It's about 1/4th the size of a yote....so that shows promise.
Again, here's a pic with my modified settings in Target mode.
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What you are describing about how this unit is performing sounds similar to how my Flir Thermosight units with Boson cores perform. In high humidity the natural terrain picture might suffer some, but they always perform well on the "live critter". Kinda like the processing power is prioritized to finding the live critter and not so much on the terrain. They have excellent adjustment ability and you just adjust them to the emissivity conditions.
If I were a betting man, I got a hunch that Flir FPA/Core etc is in these new Armasights. Will be interesting to find out for sure hopefully exactly what is in them.
Nox 18 smokes it in regards to image clarity, build quality, and usability. The armasight is definitely a more budgeted oriented wide FOV monocular that does have a nice image if tuned properly, but doesn't hold a candle to BAE cored/sensored units.
Different etology thermal. One has a restrictive FOV for clip on use, and the side kick is a wider FOV unit. The RH25 does have a sharper image though, but less realistic. I'm excited to run it through its paces this coming week and post the review (in the review I'll have some RH25 footage too).
Tonight has way better conditions than yesterday, so I think you guys are going to be pretty excited for the image on this unit.
Something this had that the nox doesn't is margin adjustment, that fantastic Target color pallet, and a true 1x optical magnification (the nox is slightly demagnified). If you're running this with a pvs14 on a bridge, I think the armasight is actually a better option due to size, weight, color pallet, 1x optical mag with margin adjustment.
I tested the magnification vs my Voodoo S as a control and the images are the exact same size.....which is very nice. That means that theatrically, you could run this on your non dominant eye with a better thermal like a skeet or Voodoo on your dominant eye and the images will fuse quite easily due to the more realistic nature of the image from the side kick. That I'm QUITE excited to test.
The Side DooI guess we can call that setup a Voo Kick.
.I think hoping for "at least" a BAE core device for $3,000.00 is kind of unrealistic given that similar BAE units are basically a minimum double the price of a Sidekick 640 and in some cases a lot higher. Yes we all wish we could find the proverbial "birdnest on the ground" however those are truly few and far between.
BAE is a $26.17 Billion (2022 yearly revenue), 6th largest US Defense Contractor with 93,100 employes, that makes very expensive products. Likewise their performance and price reflect such.
I always do a cost to benefit analysis especially on Thermal & NV devices. This includes a lot of other analysis such as durability, powering options, servicing if need be, performance and any other unique features. This is also commonly referred to as the "bang for the buck".
No one thermal does it all. You have to have several in the toolbox for different purposes. Some devices can overlap into somewhat dual roles but there are compromises to all devices.
I have a lot of time behind a Flir Breach 320 x 256 (and other much stronger Thermal) and can get that rugged little fixed focused Breach unit to perform very well for its intended role. I am very confident that the Armasight 640 will significantly outperform the Breach and at $3,000 compared to Breach current prices, the Sidekick 640 is a a pretty attractively priced unit that will perform very well for its intended role at a reasonable price.
I don't think you are learning a "life lesson" as you put it. I think your expectations (while commendable) might not have been realistic given the nuances of Thermal Devices and their respective prices vs performance. While I would love to own a Voodo S, or other BAE systems I am just not willing to fork out that much money on one device, when I can own many more units in the "tool box" and at the end of the day pretty much get 80 - 85% of the real world visual image performance as it relates to taking "critters". I have several friends who run BAE systems and have spent time using them so am familiar with the image, etc. I take just as many or more critters than them and never feel underequipped. In fact, my toolbox is so strong that they rely on me to tell them what's out there at long distance when their units can't PID it and I can do it easy and for a lot less dollars.
Thermal and NV are kinda like dressing for the cold weather. Layers work best. The Armasight Sidekick 640 will be a good layer and at a fair price.
I thought the exact same thing when I read this post. Glad someone else with far more cred than I stated it.
This is my first entry into the world of thermal devices and perhaps my expectations were misguided, or inflated due to inexperience. Armasight was extremely tight-lipped about the core being used in this device. Though admittedly a BAE core may have been on the extreme side of the spectrum, a half step above a Flir breach was a bit under achieving based on the competion. At the least I was expecting this product to compete with the mh25 at minimum.
But I'm a noob, what do I know.
Sounds like it would also be a good match up with a PVS-14? Thoughts?
The MH25 is not the same apples as the Sidekick 640.
The MH25 has a bigger 25mm lens which produces a significantly smaller FOV. The MH 25 is also only 50 Hz and is $1,000 higher priced. I also doubt that the MH25 is as well built and durable as the Sidekick. The MH25 is sampling 1 pixel = 2.77 Square Inches at 100 yards whereas the Sidekick is sampling 1 pixel = 5.42 Square Inches at 100 yards.
They each have their place. The Sidekick will be a better head mounted thermal that gives more situational awareness. Whereas the MH25 is more suited to be a hand held unit/around the neck on lanyard type of setup.
The Sidekick 640 is definitely not just a "step up" from the Flir Breach. A Flir Breach is sampling 1 pixel = 22 Square Inches at 100 yards. So the Sidekick 640 will have approximately 4.05 times the "resolving power" of the Flir Breach according to the calculations. Even if you discount that calculation significantly the Sidekick 640 will be at a minimum "twice as good" as a Flir Breach with almost the same exact FOV.
At this point the Sidekick 640 at its price point is a hell of a lot better purchase and performer than a Flir Breach. There have been many Flir Breach's purchased to fill a specific roll and it does that fairly well. I suspect that the Armasight Sidekick 640 will be an extremely popular device as well which will fill that role even much better.
American made and American serviceable. Armasight made some cutting edge products early in its history, prior to the Flir debacle. I suspect Armasight might be on the path to regain its glory again.
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On wet high humidity conditions I can ride down gravel roads at 5 to 10 mph and spot the crap out of squirrels in trees and vegetation. I also learned something new about squirrels, they stay out much later than I previously knew from daylight hunting them. Some of those "tree rats" wait till it is quite dark to go into their holes.
For sure. I run the Breach's with 14's and that works very well. The Sidekick 640 has the same FOV and will work even way better with increased detection distance and clarity than a Breach can even think about providing.
iRay is $4k, very few deals off of retail available, and made in China.
Armasight is $3200, will be sold by Optics Planet and a number of other retailers that frequently have significantly off-retail prices, and is made and serviced iin USA. Not sure that I see this as a negative comparison against the Sidekick.
The fact this product is made in the US was one the reasons I purchased it. My comment was related to image clarity.
I truly believe when you receive your unit and learn how to run it correctly you will be very well satisfied. Back when I was a noob my initial thoughts were definitely not what they are now. But I put in a many an hour studying, paying attention, using and learning before I understood the nuances of thermal and NV. I now know what I did not know.
The Great Thing About The Hide is there are some "real experts" here that if you are polite, respectful and open to true learning will help you become a much more informed person than anywhere else.
My Quest For Even Greater Knowledge Continues & Will Never Stop. Hide Experts please stay here and help us "unwashed" as much as you can. I for one do greatly appreciate your wisdom and knowledge. I quietly read, bought and learned to a certain level before I even joined the Hide just so I at least could converse on a somewhat intelligent level with the people who could share real knowledge and learning.
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And to add to that, if there were any "real experts" here (or anywhere else) ... they never stop learning ... they are always "unwashed" ... they "learn by doing" not by pounding on their chests ... they let themselves be judged solely by others.
Now "whowhatwherehownowbrowncow" is truly one of those "unwashed_experts" ... that's MHO, but he gained his knowledge, by going out night after night after night and making mistake after mistake after mistake. The school of hard knocks. We're blessed to have him among us !!
Now "whowhatwherehownowbrowncow" is truly one of those "unwashed_experts" ... that's MHO, but he gained his knowledge, by going out night after night after night and making mistake after mistake after mistake. The school of hard knocks. We're blessed to have him among us !!
That is a true honor coming from you Wig.
You were one of the great experts that helped pave the way by all of the information you so generously shared with the Hide readers. Born out of your extensive "real world" trials and tribulations, especially trying to make devices fail and find their weak points under real world use. Also known as blood, sweat and tears.
You blazed the trail out there yourself figuring a great deal of this out and know doubt continue to pioneer the way with all the new stuff coming out as well.
You were one of the great experts that helped pave the way by all of the information you so generously shared with the Hide readers. Born out of your extensive "real world" trials and tribulations, especially trying to make devices fail and find their weak points under real world use. Also known as blood, sweat and tears.
You blazed the trail out there yourself figuring a great deal of this out and know doubt continue to pioneer the way with all the new stuff coming out as well.
Me watching this thread:That is a true honor coming from you Wig.
You were one of the great experts that helped pave the way by all of the information you so generously shared with the Hide readers. Born out of your extensive "real world" trials and tribulations, especially trying to make devices fail and find their weak points under real world use. Also known as blood, sweat and tears.
You blazed the trail out there yourself figuring a great deal of this out and know doubt continue to pioneer the way with all the new stuff coming out as well.
(In all seriousness I appreciate y'all's knowledge and opinions so much - been learning from y'all for years!)
WhereNow&How,
Would you be willing to explain the specific roles the Sidekick 640 excels at compared to other devices? And where it might fall short? As a noob, I would love to see a guide for thermal devices on the market today and where each one excels. If anybody knows of such a thing, please link me.
Would you be willing to explain the specific roles the Sidekick 640 excels at compared to other devices? And where it might fall short? As a noob, I would love to see a guide for thermal devices on the market today and where each one excels. If anybody knows of such a thing, please link me.
@Your mom stay tuned to this thread. @jstokes1 will be posting a review. He has done an excellent job on other thermals, and I suspect that he’ll do the same on the Sidekick.
I have two of the Sidekicks sitting in my Man Cave. I was able to mess with them for a little bit before having travel for work. I can tell you that I could not get a good set up bridging them on my KVC bridge. It was close, but the IPD was off just enough to not get a unified image. I have a Pano bridge I’ll try when I’m home again. I was able to get thermal hits at 300 yards off of my dogs using the Target mode. So I know that these will excel when scanning when I’m hunting urban coyotes.
I have two of the Sidekicks sitting in my Man Cave. I was able to mess with them for a little bit before having travel for work. I can tell you that I could not get a good set up bridging them on my KVC bridge. It was close, but the IPD was off just enough to not get a unified image. I have a Pano bridge I’ll try when I’m home again. I was able to get thermal hits at 300 yards off of my dogs using the Target mode. So I know that these will excel when scanning when I’m hunting urban coyotes.
Well, first off, I think owning any type of thermal device is a huge step up from not owning thermal. The ability to detect living creatures (both 4 legged and 2 legged) at night and (daytime) gives a person a huge advantage in situational awareness.
Thermal trumps Night Vision in the ability to know something is alive out there by a HUGE MARGIN.
No one thermal device does it all perfectly. To get total perfection requires a layered multi device "toolbox". However, there is a minimum threshold sweat spot starting point in my humble opinion. That minimum threshold sweat spot starting point (for me) has several characteristics.
1. Extremely Compact & Lightweight
2. Very Durable
3. Easily Powered With Removable Rechargeable Batteries (including ability to Solar Charge rechargeable batteries)
4. Ability to detect man size critters at a minimum of say 500 yards.
5. A wide FOV for easy scanning and detection.
6. Ability to head-mount, lanyard around neck, put in pocket, & ability to use as a clip-on if need be.
7. Simplicity of use. (The kids can even run and enjoy it without it breaking)
8. Decent image but the device emphasizes detection of a live critter more so than showing a "beautiful terrain image"
9. Adjustable diopter for varying eyesights.
10. Ability to adjust the user settings to fine tune the device for varying emissivity conditions.
11. Moveable margins so the output viewing screen can be moved.
12. Ability of the device to allow me to navigate in rugged very dark terrain where NV is failing
13. Moderately priced. In other words it checks the Cost to Benefit box.
For me, the Flir Breach did/does all of these things pretty darn good at an attractive price point.
I believe that the Armasight Sidekick 640 will do all of the above at a "significantly better rate" than the Flir Breach and other devices and will be well worth the money to do an upgrade. I have a Armasight Sidekick 640 inbound that I should receive by the middle of next week so I can start running it through its paces.
The ability to have a small capable and durable Thermal Device that you can throw in your pocket cannot be understated. A device like that is so dam handy that you will take it with you and have it readily available for use at all times. Easy ample powering is next.
Previously, if you told me that I could only have one thermal or night vision device only, (not both) I would have chosen the Flir Breach. I believe that statement is fixing to change to Armasight Sidekick 640.
I have owned and also ran a reasonably wide selection of NV & Thermal devices with some having even strong capabilities way out there. This gives me some good perspective on what "I would choose" if I could only have one device. Take that for what is worth as different people have somewhat different needs, but I feel strongly that any purchaser of a Armasight Sidekick 640 will ultimately be pretty darn satisfied with that purchase at a reasonable price point for all you are getting and the capabilities it will provide a person.
Hope this helps. More detailed info will follow once I receive the unit and start running it through its paces.
PS: As a noob, I offer this advice. Once you hit the "Thermal Pipe" its more addictive than Crack.
but much better for you.
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Depends on your wife health wiseWell, first off, I think owning any type of thermal device is a huge step up from not owning thermal. The ability to detect living creatures (both 4 legged and 2 legged) at night and (daytime) gives a person a huge advantage in situational awareness.
Thermal trumps Night Vision in the ability to know something is alive out there by a HUGE MARGIN.
No one thermal device does it all perfectly. To get total perfection requires a layered multi device "toolbox". However, there is a minimum threshold sweat spot starting point in my humble opinion. That minimum threshold sweat spot starting point (for me) has several characteristics.
1. Extremely Compact & Lightweight
2. Very Durable
3. Easily Powered With Removable Rechargeable Batteries (including ability to Solar Charge rechargeable batteries)
4. Ability to detect man size critters at a minimum of say 500 yards.
5. A wide FOV for easy scanning and detection.
6. Ability to head-mount, lanyard around neck, put in pocket, & ability to use as a clip-on if need be.
7. Simplicity of use. (The kids can even run and enjoy it without it breaking)
8. Decent image but the device emphasizes detection of a live critter more so than showing a "beautiful terrain image"
9. Adjustable diopter for varying eyesights.
10. Ability to adjust the user settings to fine tune the device for varying emissivity conditions.
11. Moveable margins so the output viewing screen can be moved.
12. Ability of the device to allow me to navigate in rugged very dark terrain where NV is failing
13. Moderately priced. In other words it checks the Cost to Benefit box.
For me, the Flir Breach did/does all of these things pretty darn good at an attractive price point.
I believe that the Armasight Sidekick 640 will do all of the above at a "significantly better rate" than the Flir Breach and other devices and will be well worth the money to do an upgrade. I have a Armasight Sidekick 640 inbound that I should receive by the middle of next week so I can start running it through its paces.
The ability to have a small capable and durable Thermal Device that you can throw in your pocket cannot be understated. A device like that is so dam handy that you will take it with you and have it readily available for use at all times. Easy ample powering is next.
Previously, if you told me that I could only have one thermal or night vision device only, (not both) I would have chosen the Flir Breach. I believe that statement is fixing to change to Armasight Sidekick 640.
I have owned and also ran a reasonably wide selection of NV & Thermal devices with some having even strong capabilities way out there. This gives me some good perspective on what "I would choose" if I could only have one device. Take that for what is worth as different people have somewhat different needs, but I feel strongly that any purchaser of a Armasight Sidekick 640 will ultimately be pretty darn satisfied with that purchase at a reasonable price point for all you are getting and the capabilities it will provide a person.
Hope this helps. More detailed info will follow once I receive the unit and start running it through its paces.
PS: As a noob, I offer this advice. Once you hit the "Thermal Pipe" its more addictive than Crack.
Here's some good photos through the unit itself. Working on a small teaser video before the full review is complete that I think many here will be very pleased to see 
. Let's just say that the video out does not match what you actually see, and settings matter a lot with this unit.
. Let's just say that the video out does not match what you actually see, and settings matter a lot with this unit.Attachments
I don't believe it does, but you can adjust the contrast and gain
That's exactly how my Contractor 320 scopes are performing. Even if its humid and you can't see the terrain details as well, the animals look almost the same.
Wow, this nothing like what I'm getting with my unit. Settings seem to matter indeed. Please help me Obiwan!!!!Here's some good photos through the unit itself. Working on a small teaser video before the full review is complete that I think many here will be very pleased to see
Thats a looking Shweeet.Here's some good photos through the unit itself. Working on a small teaser video before the full review is complete that I think many here will be very pleased to see
You gotta rub, pet and whisper sweet nothings to that Thang.
If that don't work, try Horta's ole trick and piss on it. Fixes all his stuff. Here's the trailer for the review guys!
